LDS Freedom Forum

triple777 wrote:

LDSguy wrote:In Julie's book she mentions how the cities of light and places of refuge served as a training ground for the eventual coming of The Lord, and were places of great preparation, both physical and spiritual.

BOOM!

Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.
- D&C 29:8

YA BOOM! this has already been known. Nothing she says is original. So why the book? Why sell it? Why not just put out a free PDF? Because no one would read it let alone buy it. Please, I listened to her for 3 hours in an interview and she avoided every question the guy asked her. She would only state "known" mormon doctrine like this one above. I found her to be tedious to listen to as she avoided any clear and concise statements. It would be like me writing a book about what I have learned from reading other books then trying to sell it to others as a NDE.

True Prophets and apostles don't need NDE for these visions.

Knowing that Julie is a full supporter of the brethren, perhaps this answers the afore-posed question of how she could publish her experience when the assumed right to reveal matters regarding the future of the church as a whole lies solely in the president of the church. If she is not publishing anything new, then she isn't stepping on anyone else's stewardship.

That being said, I have no problem with people publishing their revelations. That is between them and God.

YA BOOM! this has already been known. Nothing she says is original. So why the book? Why sell it? Why not just put out a free PDF? Because no one would read it let alone buy it. Please, I listened to her for 3 hours in an interview and she avoided every question the guy asked her. She would only state "known" mormon doctrine like this one above. I found her to be tedious to listen to as she avoided any clear and concise statements. It would be like me writing a book about what I have learned from reading other books then trying to sell it to others as a NDE.

True Prophets and apostles don't need NDE for these visions.

Knowing that Julie is a full supporter of the brethren, perhaps this answers the afore-posed question of how she could publish her experience when the assumed right to reveal matters regarding the future of the church as a whole lies solely in the president of the church. If she is not publishing anything new, then she isn't stepping on anyone else's stewardship.

That being said, I have no problem with people publishing their revelations. That is between them and God.

Yes, my only question is why the vitriol from the dissenters in this thread ?
It doesn't come from a good place.

If we know we will be held accountable for every word, thought that we voice, think or even type, why be a hater?

Serves no useful purpose in your eternal purpose.

njb

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:

YA BOOM! this has already been known. Nothing she says is original. So why the book? Why sell it? Why not just put out a free PDF? Because no one would read it let alone buy it. Please, I listened to her for 3 hours in an interview and she avoided every question the guy asked her. She would only state "known" mormon doctrine like this one above. I found her to be tedious to listen to as she avoided any clear and concise statements. It would be like me writing a book about what I have learned from reading other books then trying to sell it to others as a NDE.

True Prophets and apostles don't need NDE for these visions.

Knowing that Julie is a full supporter of the brethren, perhaps this answers the afore-posed question of how she could publish her experience when the assumed right to reveal matters regarding the future of the church as a whole lies solely in the president of the church. If she is not publishing anything new, then she isn't stepping on anyone else's stewardship.

That being said, I have no problem with people publishing their revelations. That is between them and God.

Yes, my only question is why the vitriol from the dissenters in this thread ?
It doesn't come from a good place.

If we know we will be held accountable for every word, thought that we voice, think or even type, why be a hater?

Serves no useful purpose in your eternal purpose.

njb

Because Babylon loves a good contest. Our hearts are not yet in Zion.

Scrutiny shouldn't be mistaken for negativity. The stakes are high. Many people buy into false narratives and reorient their lives at the expense of what should be higher priorities.

nvr wrote:Scrutiny shouldn't be mistaken for negativity. The stakes are high. Many people buy into false narratives and reorient their lives at the expense of what should be higher priorities.

I completely agree. Which is why I believe that HOW you say something is jut as important as WHAT you say.

I wrote a book because the Lord asked me to. I am writing this second book because the Lord asked me to.

If you knew the back story on this perhaps you would not be so quick to judge, to scrutinize, to condemn. Perhaps you would come to an understanding as to some of the purpose of these books.

Or, perhaps not. Perhaps no matter what I said or did - no matter if the Lord Himself told you that it was what He asked me to do - perhaps even then you would still behave in this manner.

Not up for me to judge, but I will say this: Before you spout your mouth off or write negative things like this about me or anyone - it might be a good idea to take a close look in the mirror and ask yourself a few questions:

1) Am I acting charitable?
2) Are these thoughts, feelings, words, emotions and actions coming from the light?
3) How do I feel when I am acting this way? (that's always a pretty good indication of where the source of our actions lies)

Just saying....I know what I know and nothing you or anyone else says can or will change my mind or my actions in regard to the mission I am to accomplish - which is simply to share a bit of my experience, witness and testify of truth, and stand in holy places as a messenger of light and truth. Mine is simply another voice of warning and for those that heed, that is terrific. For those who choose otherwise - that's okay too. It won't be long before time will tell and reality will set it. People will know - and for some it will be too late to get their houses in order.

Trifle not with the Lord and His servants. Whether you choose to believe this or not - I am one of his servants and I am following the instructions and directions that have been given to me.

I am confident that those who need to hear the message will hear the message and they will hear it when they need to hear it in the manner in which the Lord chooses to give it to them. My books are not for everyone - but they are for some.

I don't understand why some people have the need to attack me for no other reason other than to stir up strife and contention and to try to dissuade people from seeking answers of their own.

Those who do so are not coming from a place of light and love.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

I know who my Master is. Do you?

jk:

f
t
w

completing her assignment.

njb

triple777 wrote: True Prophets and apostles don't need NDE for these visions.

How is this different from an NDE?

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
(2 Corinthians 12:2)

The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell.
(Doctrine and Covenants 137:1)

triple777 also stated: "Nothing she says is original. So why the book? ". There are a few things that are different, probably the most important is that now is the time to prepare.

bethany wrote:

thescott3000 wrote:If only the prophet would come out and say something on the matter... oh wait he has! Brigham Young says:

If the Lord Almighty should reveal to a High Priest, or to any other than the head, things that are true, or that have been and will be, and show to him the destiny of this people twenty-five years from now, or a new doctrine that will in five, ten, or twenty years hence become the doctrine of this Church and Kingdom, but which has not yet been revealed to this people, and reveal it to him by the same Spirit, the same messenger, the same voice, the same power that gave revelations to Joseph when he was living, it would be a blessing to that High Priest, or individual; but he must rarely divulge it to a second person on the face of the earth, until God reveals it through the proper source to become the property of the people at large. Therefore when you hear Elders say that God does not reveal through the President of the Church that which they know, and tell wonderful things, you may generally set it down as a God’s truth that the revelation they have had is from the Devil, and not from God. If they had received from the proper source, the same power that revealed to them would have shown them that they must keep the things revealed in their own bosoms, and they seldom would have a desire to disclose them to the second person (DBY, 338).

It doesnt get any clearer than that. But it doesnt matter, it seems that most people have already made up their minds and no one can tell them otherwise.

It would be most interesting to me to witness you in his day. For you to be the one he sent off to England on a mission... While he back home canoodles your legal & lawful wife away from you into his nest & then exed you because you protested. If I wanted to control the herd I would make such statements also. Was stealing a mans wife the doctrine of devils or Gods? Was condemning a man to eternal damnation by excommunication because you wanted his wife a doctrine of devils or Gods? I think we all pick & choose and feign what we will to be the word of The Lord. Energy healing does not pretend to be the word of The Lord unto the body of the church. It is a tool just like penicillin & medical remedies. Did chiropractic come to the world via God's annointed? Did radiology come to the earth via the Lords annointed? Let us be as the Amish & live within the tools, homes, vehicles & appliances that the prophet has time to secure the plans to the earth. Personally I think everybody on the planet has the right to revelation. If you catch us trying to sneak up to the podium during general conference & sabotaging the TelePrompter to trick those gentlemen into reading in the Emotion Code as canonized doctrine, then by all means have at it. Nobody has made it a saving ordinance.

I dont know how my response to your hypothetical questions have anything to do with this thread. I suggest you start a new thread about you and your beliefs. I'm trying to understand your motives. Is it to covenvince whoever you can that Brigham Young was influenced by the devil? Why would someone speak evil of the Lords annointed? I feel sorry for you. I encourage you to repent, but I doubt that will happen.

As for me, I try to only talk about the things that I know, and not speculate or chase after every whim of "new" doctrine or fable that I hear about. Sure the church and prophets have their warts. But for those I love, trust, and know best I give them the benefit of the doubt when I hear gossip or rumors about them. Brigham Young has done more good in this world than almost anyone who has ever lived, so I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt when rumors circulate. The bottom line is that you dont know the situation, we only get one point of view. I also know that the church is true, Joseph Smith is a prophet, and all the prophets since have been called of God. I know that if I deny the pure knowledge that I have been given, I would justly be condemned to outer darkness for all eternity. I would tell you more about this, but I feel it is pearls before swine and my experiences are personal treasures to me.

Since Brigham Young is apparently off limits, here are some other quotes that teach the same principle that I was trying to share. Hopefully there is no personal vindeta for Joseph Smith or Herald B Lee. I'd also recommend reading D&C 28.

Let us be faithful and silent, brethren, and if God gives you a manifestation, keep it to yourselves. -Joseph Smith (Teachings, pp 91)

"The reason we do not have secrets of the Lord revealed unto us is because we do not keep them but reveal them; We do not keep our own secrets, but reveal our difficulties to the world, even to our enemies, then how would we keep the secrets of the Lord?  I can keep a secret till Doomsday." -Joseph Smith

“There are among us many loose writings predicting the calamities which are about to overtake us. Some of these have been publicized as though they were necessary to wake up the world to the horrors about to overtake us. Many of these are from sources upon which there cannot be unquestioned reliance.“… We need no such publications to be forewarned, if we were only conversant with what the scriptures have already spoken to us in plainness.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1972, 128; or Ensign, Jan. 1973, p. 106.) Herald B Lee

jkrowe wrote:I wrote a book because the Lord asked me to. I am writing this second book because the Lord asked me to.

If you knew the back story on this perhaps you would not be so quick to judge, to scrutinize, to condemn. Perhaps you would come to an understanding as to some of the purpose of these books.

Or, perhaps not. Perhaps no matter what I said or did - no matter if the Lord Himself told you that it was what He asked me to do - perhaps even then you would still behave in this manner.

Not up for me to judge, but I will say this: Before you spout your mouth off or write negative things like this about me or anyone - it might be a good idea to take a close look in the mirror and ask yourself a few questions:

1) Am I acting charitable?
2) Are these thoughts, feelings, words, emotions and actions coming from the light?
3) How do I feel when I am acting this way? (that's always a pretty good indication of where the source of our actions lies)

Just saying....I know what I know and nothing you or anyone else says can or will change my mind or my actions in regard to the mission I am to accomplish - which is simply to share a bit of my experience, witness and testify of truth, and stand in holy places as a messenger of light and truth. Mine is simply another voice of warning and for those that heed, that is terrific. For those who choose otherwise - that's okay too. It won't be long before time will tell and reality will set it. People will know - and for some it will be too late to get their houses in order.

Trifle not with the Lord and His servants. Whether you choose to believe this or not - I am one of his servants and I am following the instructions and directions that have been given to me.

I am confident that those who need to hear the message will hear the message and they will hear it when they need to hear it in the manner in which the Lord chooses to give it to them. My books are not for everyone - but they are for some.

I don't understand why some people have the need to attack me for no other reason other than to stir up strife and contention and to try to dissuade people from seeking answers of their own.

Those who do so are not coming from a place of light and love.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

I know who my Master is. Do you?

So are we getting any new news for next conference?

.

.

That you might take responsibility for yourself

"We have heard men who hold the priesthood remark that they would do anything they were told to do by those who preside over them -- even if they knew it was wrong. But such obedience as this is worse than folly to us. It is slavery in the extreme. The man who would thus willingly degrade himself should not claim a rank among intelligent beings until he turns from his folly.
"A man of God would despise this idea. Others, in the extreme exercise of their almighty authority have taught that such obedience was necessary, and that no matter what the Saints were told to do by their presidents, they should do it without any questions.
"When Elders [leaders] of Israel will so far indulge in these extreme notions of obedience as to teach them to the people, it is generally because they [the leaders] have it in their hearts to do wrong themselves."

-- Joseph Smith, Jr.
Millenial Star, Archive Volume 14, Number 38, Pages 593-595


I see this quoted a lot but obviously not comprehended. Every individual has an obligation to obey the commands they are given by God. Every individual has a right & obligation to seek the mind & will of God on their own.

When a person fears man more than God, they lose. I once a taught a lesson in RS... I sat down to compile my thoughts when the lesson began to be dictated entirely to me, so rapidly I could barely keep up. The lesson evolved into following the keys & missions of the early prophets & showed how they were entirely sculpted into Joseph's ultimate mission of the restoration & temple work. It was fascinating & spirit filled completely flooded with the Holy Spirit expounding on the quote that no man has done more for salvation than Joseph Smith, save Jesus Christ. I typically have 3-5 ppl come up & thank me for my lessons. This day half the room which was filled came to tell me how electrifying it was & how I had brought together truths they had not connected before.

The RS pres. was not happy. I had not quoted the lesson verbatim. That I was wrong & I had to stick to the lessons as they were written. The next time I went to teach, the information began to flow & I told the Angel that I was not allowed to expand the lesson. (Prior to this as primary president I had fabulous guidance every Sunday & every activity, even to the point of the other pres. Having the same lesson in the other ward coordinated entirely by the spirit). I am used to the spirit instructing me always when I present in church. I felt like I was between a rock & a hard place with trying to keep my calling filled.

What was the result of that? Of fearing man over God? Obeying this R S pres instead of the messenger sent to me? I lost my gifts for an extended season. I lost my ability to hear & interact with the Holy Spirit. Never again. I will not disobey ever again to appease a false directive. Contrived lessons & conversations have nothing to with the order The Lord established in the scriptures. Teach by study & the Holy Spirit. Every person is expected to learn & use discernment & to recognize the voice of The Lord. It is done by practice. If someone tries & it doesn't turn out right, then observe how you felt & dust yourself off & try harder but try again until you know when the source is right. But you are under obligation to learn it. Nobody has the right to say to someone, it's too hard you might get deceived, leave it to others. There is no godhood in allowing others to do your conversing for you. It is required.

Never fear man over God.

I appreciate Bethany's comment

For myself, I surrendered my right to think for far too many years.

I feel the same. It feels emotionally manipulative to say

perhaps you would not be so quick to judge, to scrutinize, to condemn.

Grouping scrutiny, and exercising our mind to arrive at a conclusion, with condemnation is manipulative. They are not the same thing.

Perhaps you would come to an understanding as to some of the purpose of these books.

It seems you have already made it clear that it is your warning to others, as the purpose of the book. Many have commented, and I would agree, that many have said the same things before. Ok. I don't see that as an attack. It is a neutral statement.

some people have the need to attack me for no other reason other than to stir up strife and contention and to try to dissuade people from seeking answers of their own.

Disagreement is not stirring up strife and contention. They are honest opinions. No one is, or even could effectively, keep people from seeking answers on their own.

Those who do so are not coming from a place of light and love.

You don't know that. This is just a group of people discussing your book, not you personally. A review that is less than favorable is not a hate statement. Many do already have their house in order, even without having read your book, or the multitude of other publications very like it.

I guess now you are going to post a concern about the "darkness" on this forum. Relax. No one is attacking you. There is love here. Love for truth and love for you.

Odd you should say that, I've never read a book (telling of a similar experience) like hers. And how gracious is she to come in here and share and attempt to explain her story and purpose a bit more to us and even answer a question or two. If we don't agree with everything she says we can atleast be kind and courtious to her. Can we please not chase her away again? I for one love that she is here and can't wait to read her new book. So what if we've heard a lot of it (the doctrine or warnings) before? If most of us are yet unprepared then clearly those parts bear repeating. I appreciate her "call" to us from The Lord and she has helped me to awaken about several (important) issues. So her mission is a success in my eyes!

Ok that's better...

Can we please not chase her away again?

How have we chased her away? Are we not expressing how we feel about the publication? How is that offensive?

How is it that the idea of using our thinking skills is considered by some to be wrong? And that to vary in our view of things is hateful?

It is natural that she would want to come on the forum to promote her book. It is even more to be expected, since this is what the forum was created for, that someone would post a comment that doesn't match her ideas. That might especially apply to a topic labeled "I've turned into a Julie Rowe skeptic". I can empathize with her frustration. But comments have not been rude, mean spirited, hateful, or "dark". It would be more polite not to imply that they are.

worthit wrote:

Can we please not chase her away again?

How have we chased her away? Are we not expressing how we feel about the publication? How is that offensive?

How is it that the idea of using our thinking skills is considered by some to be wrong? And that to vary in our view of things is hateful?

It is natural that she would want to come on the forum to promote her book. It is even more to be expected, since this is what the forum was created for, that someone would post a comment that doesn't match her ideas. That might especially apply to a topic labeled "I've turned into a Julie Rowe skeptic". I can empathize with her frustration. But comments have not been rude, mean spirited, or "dark". It would be more polite not to imply that they are.

worthit-

Can you please stop?
Your bogus defense is not genteel at all.
It reminds me of pharisees and lawyers trying to trip up the Savior and Apostles in the New Testament.

You're also trying to defend your actions, when she was asked to come by here by others.
You and a few others have been trying to diminish and or trip up a messenger who brings a beautiful message.

There's nothing noble in that.
Just please stop, and please no more explanations as to try and excuse your's and other's reasons and behaviors.

It's less than righteous, it is less than noble -so please stop.

njb

Sorry to offend you

Anyone who attended last nights event in Mesa care to share here?

Just curious what your thoughts and feelings are on what was discussed at the meeting...

What was discussed at the meeting? I would love to know!

I will later.
I'm in Sacrament now and then off to work.
I will post a summary this evening.
My only regret is I forgot to snap a photo w Julie.
She's purdy.

Ok enough Stake Pres just winked at me.

Njb

Thank you njb yay!!!! And julie I saw I believe in your website that you were considering coming to Orem Utah. Please do I would be delighted to see you speak!!! (Really!)

Thank you, Njb.

It was a pleasure meeting you. Wish we had more time we could have talked but too many people and too much going on.

Glad you could make it though.

I also greatly appreciate your kind posts on here and that you have continued to come to my defense.

I am very grateful to you. I hope it was worth your time to come last night and that it was of benefit to you.

Spread the message....there are still many who will benefit from hearing it.

Thanks again! Look forward to reading your notes. (You know how it is, when your have promptings and impressions from the spirit to say certain things, then later, you can't really remember what you said. So...I am not really sure about most of what I said, but I do remember a few details. Please leave out the really big detail I shared that was meant only for those in attendance ----hopefully you know what I am talking about....about some changes in my personal situation coming soon).

Thanks again.

jkrowe wrote:Thank you, Njb.

It was a pleasure meeting you. Wish we had more time we could have talked but too many people and too much going on.

Glad you could make it though.

I also greatly appreciate your kind posts on here and that you have continued to come to my defense.

I am very grateful to you. I hope it was worth your time to come last night and that it was of benefit to you.

Spread the message....there are still many who will benefit from hearing it.

Thanks again! Look forward to reading your notes. (You know how it is, when your have promptings and impressions from the spirit to say certain things, then later, you can't really remember what you said. So...I am not really sure about most of what I said, but I do remember a few details. Please leave out the really big detail I shared that was meant only for those in attendance ----hopefully you know what I am talking about....about some changes in my personal situation coming soon).

Thanks again.

Julie, I'd be cautious about coming to this site in the position you're in (as the writer), even if it's to defend yourself. The game Whack-a-mole comes to mind.

SamFisher wrote:

jkrowe wrote:Thank you, Njb.

It was a pleasure meeting you. Wish we had more time we could have talked but too many people and too much going on.

Glad you could make it though.

I also greatly appreciate your kind posts on here and that you have continued to come to my defense.

I am very grateful to you. I hope it was worth your time to come last night and that it was of benefit to you.

Spread the message....there are still many who will benefit from hearing it.

Thanks again! Look forward to reading your notes. (You know how it is, when your have promptings and impressions from the spirit to say certain things, then later, you can't really remember what you said. So...I am not really sure about most of what I said, but I do remember a few details. Please leave out the really big detail I shared that was meant only for those in attendance ----hopefully you know what I am talking about....about some changes in my personal situation coming soon).

Thanks again.

Julie, I'd be cautious about coming to this site in the position you're in (as the writer), even if it's to defend yourself. The game Whack-a-mole comes to mind.

why should mole whackers get to control the discourse? i say antagonize them mercilessly... you might just force them to think about their motives...

(i whack when people condemn others & assign false judgements.) my father was ex'd because of people who created fantasies in their head. he stayed away for 18 years. in the end the accusers apologized, the ringleader was ex'd that railroaded his excommunication. lots of bad karma came their way. if you don't like something, don't buy it.