LDS Freedom Forum

DPeterson wrote:Boy you're a negative person. Everything is pathetic, lame and everyone is crazy. Wow.

If you're talking about wompus, I was going to ask him/her earlier this morning if he got up on the wrong side of the bed. His posts have been exceedingly grouchy this morning.

Lizzy60 wrote:

DPeterson wrote:Boy you're a negative person. Everything is pathetic, lame and everyone is crazy. Wow.

If you're talking about wompus, I was going to ask him/her earlier this morning if he got up on the wrong side of the bed. His posts have been exceedingly grouchy this morning.

I know, im sorry... its grumpy cats fault!

wompus wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:

DPeterson wrote:Boy you're a negative person. Everything is pathetic, lame and everyone is crazy. Wow.

If you're talking about wompus, I was going to ask him/her earlier this morning if he got up on the wrong side of the bed. His posts have been exceedingly grouchy this morning.

I know, im sorry... its grumpy cats fault!

:)) =)) :))
Grumpy Cat is totally unappreciative of the effort you put forth for his birthday banner, party hat, and decorated cake!!!

wompus wrote:This is one of President Spencer W. Kimball's favorite poem.... He was and is a great man!

Pain stayed so long
I said to him today,
“I will not have you with me anymore
I stomped my foot and said, be on your way!"
And paused there startled at the look he wore.
“I who have been your friend,”
he said to me, “I who have been your teacher
–all that you know of understanding love,
of sympathy and patience,
I have taught you.
Shall I go?”
He spoke the truth,
this strange unwelcome guest;
I watched him leave and knew that he was wise.
He left a heart grown tender in my breast.
He left a far, clearer vision in my eyes.
I dried my tears, and lifted up a song
Even for one who’d tortured me so long.

And to those who criticize the 'brethern'... how little you know... one of my favorites is President Kimball... what a mighty man!

.

wompus wrote:This is one of President Spencer W. Kimball's favorite poem.... He was and is a great man!

Pain stayed so long
I said to him today,
“I will not have you with me anymore
I stomped my foot and said, be on your way!"
And paused there startled at the look he wore.
“I who have been your friend,”
he said to me, “I who have been your teacher
–all that you know of understanding love,
of sympathy and patience,
I have taught you.
Shall I go?”
He spoke the truth,
this strange unwelcome guest;
I watched him leave and knew that he was wise.
He left a heart grown tender in my breast.
He left a far, clearer vision in my eyes.
I dried my tears, and lifted up a song
Even for one who’d tortured me so long.

And to those who criticize the 'brethern'... how little you know... one of my favorites is President Kimball... what a mighty man!

:)) Great poem, thanks for bringing some positive thoughts to this thread.

.

AI2.0 wrote:

wompus wrote:This is one of President Spencer W. Kimball's favorite poem.... He was and is a great man!

Pain stayed so long
I said to him today,
“I will not have you with me anymore
I stomped my foot and said, be on your way!"
And paused there startled at the look he wore.
“I who have been your friend,”
he said to me, “I who have been your teacher
–all that you know of understanding love,
of sympathy and patience,
I have taught you.
Shall I go?”
He spoke the truth,
this strange unwelcome guest;
I watched him leave and knew that he was wise.
He left a heart grown tender in my breast.
He left a far, clearer vision in my eyes.
I dried my tears, and lifted up a song
Even for one who’d tortured me so long.

And to those who criticize the 'brethern'... how little you know... one of my favorites is President Kimball... what a mighty man!

:)) Great poem, thanks for bringing some positive thoughts to this thread.

Since we all venture into attack threads so we can feel the love exuded as we savage a persons intentions & life & make wild accusations about them entertaining satan & trying to deceive everyone so that they can suck souls into hell & rip apart their little eternal families. Yep. That's what we want & what we are trying to do in the castigation process. I just felt immense love beckoning me here.

wompus wrote:

Lizzy60 wrote:

DPeterson wrote:Boy you're a negative person. Everything is pathetic, lame and everyone is crazy. Wow.

If you're talking about wompus, I was going to ask him/her earlier this morning if he got up on the wrong side of the bed. His posts have been exceedingly grouchy this morning.

I know, im sorry... its grumpy cats fault!

=))

It's actually possible to commit sin while trying to do good.

Think about that one for awhile.

Rather than going out and working, some people will pray and read scriptures all the time, while at the same time letting their children starve to death.

Prayer becomes a sin if it becomes a public show-and-tell.

A Second Comforter experience becomes a sin if it is used only to build up the individual and never used to strengthen the Latter-day Saints and never used to build up the Kingdom of God, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The reverse is also true. It's possible to do a lot of good with things that have nothing to do with building up the Kingdom of God.

A non-LDS doctor can do a lot of good for mankind by finding ways to help and heal other individuals.

Discernment is called for. A balanced, open-minded opinion is called for. Truth and Law are always found in the balance between Justice and Mercy.

Though I have quoted it elsewhere, this quote from Joseph Smith is applicable to this thread:

Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.204-205:

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of light? If Satan should appear as one in glory, who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory, or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets with their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysterious operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in which it has been clothed.

Joseph Smith

bethany wrote:That's a twist from all the other critics who demand you include Christ. Quite frankly I include Christ in most of my concerns so why would I leave him out of this? I expect him to bless my efforts the same way I expect something as trivial as the food I am eating, why would he not care about bonds I am removing that entities have attached to. My issue involved entities, I have to include the atonement in my work. But you are free to ignore it. It's free, it's done, it's out there should you decide it would help. But I don't really care about your anti-spiritual take on manipulating the systems of the body.

-delete-

I am fully aware that body code & emotion code are taught in such a way to be done without prayer. I am also fully aware that when I work with lds people that prayer is important to them & therefore I respect that. As for entities, I don't really follow you. Are you saying they are not real? Or that it is not necessary to work through the atonement to get rid of them. I don't really get what you are saying about it. Dr. Nelson's work is not a religious or spiritual system.

I am not really interested in reading Julie's book. I don't have a negative view of it but am not planning to read it. Her vision of saints bugging out is a vision my brother had in a dream. I had talked to my father about some dreams that involved bugging out to a specific place far from where we lived. He didn't really listen to me. Several years later he died & within 2 weeks he came to visit my brother in a dream & showed him extensive information regarding the future. My brother was never exposed to information regarding a call out as ppl refer to it.... But he saw immediate future filled with specific conversations that took place exactly as he was shown. Her vision is consistent with many others. His experience happened 8 months before Katrina hit New Orleans, he was shown that we would evacuate to a certain place & saw who would go with us... My other brother went somewhere else in the dream, he left intending to go w us to Hot a Springs, Ark & turned away at the last minute to go somewhere else. I don't have a problem believing her story.

Lastly, the New Testament & Joseph Smith VERY WELL established that ANYBODY has authority to heal through faith in the name of Christ. You do not have to have the priesthood to heal. I don't care how many times people try to slip that in there, it's blatantly false.

And I am not going to spend my time supporting that, the history of the church regarding women healers is very well known.

Everything is spiritual. Dr. Nelson's work is not religious but it is spiritual.

We are spiritual beings having a temporal experience.

It is absolute nonsense to try to say that just because you can prove something is scientific,that makes it non-spiritual.

Actually, the opposite is true. Everything around us was created spiritually before it was created physically. The universe and everything in it has spiritual composition.

All true science has a spiritual element, and all things within our world and in our universe on every level have a spiritual component.

You cannot separate them out. People may choose to try to take God out of the equation, but in the end, it is He who utilized the laws of nature and designed this earth and this universe. It is He who designed the Plan and He who implements it.

There is a great deal that even the greatest scientists of our day do not yet know and understand about the earth, let alone the universe, let alone other universes that exist.

Whether people choose to believe that it is through the power of the Atonement that these things are possible or not, does not change the fact that the Atonement works. It does and it will because that is part of the Plan.

I will not argue this point. I will boldly testify of what I know and that is that I was shown very specifically how this works.

I know what I know and nothing anyone says will change that.

Those who teach that there is not a spiritual element to energy work are wrong.

jkrowe wrote: There is a great deal that even the greatest scientists of our day do not yet know and understand about the earth, let alone the universe, let alone other universes that exist.

Perfect! The idea that just because science can't measure something and therefore makes it nonexistent is complete nonsense. That's what I was trying to get across with whoever I was arguing with on another page. So what if it isn't measurable and repeatable in an experimental context? Maybe science hasn't progressed yet to the point that they can understand what's happening. Maybe it really does require some degree of belief/faith making it inert on occasion. Yet these people are inconsistent and have faith and belief in a God and a gospel that can't be proven by the same means. How they accomplish that feat is beyond me. "We believe all thing, we hope all things..."

jkrowe wrote:Everything is spiritual. Dr. Nelson's work is not religious but it is spiritual.

Those who teach that there is not a spiritual element to energy work are wrong.

Just to be clear, my previous comment did not mean that it is not spiritual, but I meant that it is not a spiritualism type of system as they keep referencing new age nonsense that is far from Dr. Nelson's work. I am tired from no sleep last night & sometimes I don't say it right.

If ppl only had a CLUE what their emotions mean to their spiritual expressions. It is the bulk of whether or not you have faith to manifest miracles. Doubt is an emotion that sabotages most of what you would accomplish if you were not weighed down.

Julie, can you please explain how your book works with the Brigham Young quote that I shared earlier?

If the Lord Almighty should reveal to a High Priest, or to any other than the head, things that are true, or that have been and will be, and show to him the destiny of this people twenty-five years from now, or a new doctrine that will in five, ten, or twenty years hence become the doctrine of this Church and Kingdom, but which has not yet been revealed to this people, and reveal it to him by the same Spirit, the same messenger, the same voice, the same power that gave revelations to Joseph when he was living, it would be a blessing to that High Priest, or individual; but he must rarely divulge it to a second person on the face of the earth, until God reveals it through the proper source to become the property of the people at large. Therefore when you hear Elders say that God does not reveal through the President of the Church that which they know, and tell wonderful things, you may generally set it down as a God’s truth that the revelation they have had is from the Devil, and not from God. If they had received from the proper source, the same power that revealed to them would have shown them that they must keep the things revealed in their own bosoms, and they seldom would have a desire to disclose them to the second person (DBY, 338).

Like many others out there, this is a huge red flag for me to not believe that your experience should be shared, or that it wan't from God. There are many other quotes from the prophets telling us not to share the kinds of experiences that you share.

I'm not trying to be a hater. I sincerely want to know your view point. Thanks!

thescott3000 wrote:Julie, can you please explain how your book works with the Brigham Young quote that I shared earlier?

If the Lord Almighty should reveal to a High Priest, or to any other than the head, things that are true, or that have been and will be, and show to him the destiny of this people twenty-five years from now, or a new doctrine that will in five, ten, or twenty years hence become the doctrine of this Church and Kingdom, but which has not yet been revealed to this people, and reveal it to him by the same Spirit, the same messenger, the same voice, the same power that gave revelations to Joseph when he was living, it would be a blessing to that High Priest, or individual; but he must rarely divulge it to a second person on the face of the earth, until God reveals it through the proper source to become the property of the people at large. Therefore when you hear Elders say that God does not reveal through the President of the Church that which they know, and tell wonderful things, you may generally set it down as a God’s truth that the revelation they have had is from the Devil, and not from God. If they had received from the proper source, the same power that revealed to them would have shown them that they must keep the things revealed in their own bosoms, and they seldom would have a desire to disclose them to the second person (DBY, 338).

Like many others out there, this is a huge red flag for me to not believe that your experience should be shared, or that it wan't from God. There are many other quotes from the prophets telling us not to share the kinds of experiences that you share.

I'm not trying to be a hater. I sincerely want to know your view point. Thanks!

And toning down my attitude also thescott, I am quite curious where we go in our mind & consciousness & conscience to exonerate Brigham Young in taking the wives of other men. How did the Puritanist members allow that & how can we give him the firm authority to represent the mind & will of our Savior who did not condone adultery or divorce. It dilutes much of what I used to feel toward him & I can no longer quote anything he said. I know that God does not condone breaking up marriages or have a law that says women can move up the priesthood ladder if they are not in a marriage that meets certain standards. I don't really expect I will get an answer. Ever.

I don't guess this is a good time to mention the church disassociating itself with his teachings on blacks either. I don't believe in the infallibility clause that Mormons used to - under their breath - mock the pope for. Prophets are men & they make mistakes.

i just have to wonder. i've been in the church a few decades, my mom had some magazines in a back closet that i would puruse as a child. i remember reading extreme stories back then, it sorta shaped my tolerances & my expectations. why did we have no problem with Eliza Snow's & others miraculous healings & them running around visiting the sick & ministering, why could the church record amazing stories and catalog them but we can't own our own stories? Lee Nelson compiled a bunch of stories with nde's & they were stored by the church & they were not the prophets scooting over there to the other side. i'm beginning to think its not wrong to tell a story until after its aged & somebody else makes money off it. the environment today against people sharing their own stuff is not the environment that was established for at least a hundred years.

In Julie's book she mentions how the cities of light and places of refuge served as a training ground for the eventual coming of The Lord, and were places of great preparation, both physical and spiritual.

BOOM!

Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.
- D&C 29:8

Well, a lot of interesting points of view on this topic. I apologize for my use of sarcasm in an earlier post. I was attempting to emphasize a significant point. It sounds like this energy healing phenomenon, if real, is based on actual manipulations of some physiological system. The problem that still stands out, as others have noted, is that if this is so, this type of work should be considered no different than physical therapy.

JR says it isn't religiously connected, but has to do with interactions with the spirit. Despite the agreement that it is simply an interaction with a 'human energy system' or the spirit or what have you, there seem to be many who affiliate it with their religious beliefs. This would be the same as a dentists claiming that their specific personal religious beliefs are what enable them to drill and repair a cavity. Any dentist can fix a cavity regardless of religious affiliation.

If energy healing is simply a mechanical operation, albeit an interaction involving a person's spirit or 'energy system', why don't practitioners focus on delivering concrete reports of their successful efforts? Why don't they deliver details of repeatable experiments so everyone can understand with surety how to replicate their success to the benefit of others?

The big issue I see is, if energy healing is medically legitimate, a practitioner could falsely ascribe their healing ability to the power of the devil, or to whatever false god they think of. If it is medically legitimate, why not separate it completely from religious contexts, demonstrate the scientific principles of operation and document repeatable experiments.

Perhaps it will turn out that the energy healing modalities simply encourage a person's resolve which changes their brain activity which redirects cells in their body to accelerate repairing or fight infection.

Prayers of faith might have the same effect in improving conditions, though this would not constitute a miraculous healing. Annointing with oil could also work on the same principles up to a point, though truly miraculous healing and raising of the dead etc. is the work of the Lord and is made possible through the atonement. His power is evident in these events and is accessed through the priesthood authority bestowed on worthy priesthood bearers. There are stories of healing through other powers, aka the devil but these people did not stay healed. True miraculous healing can not be achieved through any power other than His.

I believe it is a foolish thing – as in, a thing which only fools do – to presume to pontificate upon a work without having examined it.

Nvr, your make up is unique to every single person in the world. No 2 people hold their emotions and anchors alike. If expressing rage is a character trait to your family & it has been in your family for multiple generations then you will have peculiar anchors & patterns, & other things that have been altered.... Be it glands, nerves, etc that are warped. It's not like someone is going to pull out a picture of a tumor growing on your pituitary gland. The point is to find all the energetic pieces involved in the condition & release them. There can be curses that someone placed on your lineage.... So many variables. I do what Julie does, but a little more because my issue I needed to resolve involved curses & things of that nature. So you are sort of deconstructing something that evolved over time & there can be many elements to it. If you picked up emotion code or went back to my post where I put on a script for releasing emotions, you can take that, insert the emotion of your choice & you can feel it. If there are no severe blocks in your system, you will feel dark emotions leave your body & then replace them with your favorite positive, like peace, etc.

My spouse likes to roll his eyes at my stuff, but he knows how much our family has been blessed through my work. He spent a day having to drive around with a friend at work on steroidal road rage, he came home and said, man, he needs emotion code & asked if we would work with him. He is always pointing out people now who desperately need it. It is undeniable when you experience it.

I will say that there are people with SO much sabotaging energy that they might need a lot of layers removed before they feel anything. I had a son that could never feel any work & he was very depressed. It took me 6 months for him to finally write me a message & say 'I feel so much peace today'... He was blocked up quite a bit. He had not felt peace in years & forgot what it was like to be happy.

Every person is unique, there are no single repeatable formulas for every one.

SempiternalHarbinger wrote:I believe it is a foolish thing – as in, a thing which only fools do – to presume to pontificate upon a work without having examined it.

For sure - that's why I'm asking questions of these experts. Or do you you mean these practitioners should understand the scientific underpinnings of their craft before further evangelizing these practices?

LDSguy wrote:In Julie's book she mentions how the cities of light and places of refuge served as a training ground for the eventual coming of The Lord, and were places of great preparation, both physical and spiritual.

BOOM!

Wherefore the decree hath gone forth from the Father that they shall be gathered in unto one place upon the face of this land, to prepare their hearts and be prepared in all things against the day when tribulation and desolation are sent forth upon the wicked.
- D&C 29:8

YA BOOM! this has already been known. Nothing she says is original. So why the book? Why sell it? Why not just put out a free PDF? Because no one would read it let alone buy it. Please, I listened to her for 3 hours in an interview and she avoided every question the guy asked her. She would only state "known" mormon doctrine like this one above. I found her to be tedious to listen to as she avoided any clear and concise statements. It would be like me writing a book about what I have learned from reading other books then trying to sell it to others as a NDE.

True Prophets and apostles don't need NDE for these visions.