I've turned into a Julie Rowe skeptic

[sarahmj]

I started her book with an open mind and prayed the Lord would help me discern truth from error...and after reading it there is too much that doesn't sit right with me. I have decided I'm not going to read any more about people's experiences on the other side. I do think it really happens, that some people get a glimpse of the spirit world and get personal messages etc. but those messages are for them. The Lord has a pattern of revealing truth to his children and church and random people's dreams/visions/NDE's is not one of them. When it comes to prophecy we have the scriptures and we have prophets and we should be really really careful when it comes to heeding prophecy from sources other than them. A lot of her book were things that we already knew from the scriptures anyway and some of them are things people want to hear. I believe she believes what she says but it is up to us to figure out for ourselves if this message was really from The Lord, and if it was from Him was it intended for us? If the Lord intended us to hear her message, wouldn't He give it through the man that is authorised to speak on behalf of Him, Thomas S. Monson?
I have read NDEs in the past from people from all walks of life and religions and I think the pattern I see in them is that when you die you see what makes you comfortable. If you come from a religion who believes that angels have wings, then you see angels with wings.
It also really bothers me she is an Emotion Code practitioner...this is basically the same as all the other new-agey energy healing rubbish out there.

Elder Ballard:
"Today we warn you that there are false prophets and false teachers arising; and if we are not careful, even those who are among the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fall victim to their deception.

When we think of false prophets and false teachers, we tend to think of those who espouse an obviously false doctrine or presume to have authority to teach the true gospel of Christ according to their own interpretation. We often assume that such individuals are associated with small radical groups on the fringes of society. However, I reiterate: there are false prophets and false teachers who have or at least claim to have membership in the Church. There are those who, without authority, claim Church endorsement to their products and practices. Beware of such.

Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce. Like Nehor and Korihor in the Book of Mormon, they rely on sophistry to deceive and entice others to their views. They “set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion”

I realise this post may sound a bit harsh, but I believe that it is my trust in Jesus Christ and His prophets and a lack of trust in people like Julie Rowe etc. that may save me from being deceived and carried about by every wind of doctrine. Ultimately I think dreams/visions/NDEs with "prophetic" messages should be treated like patriarchal blessings....only to be shared with family.

Disagree all you want, this is just my thoughts on the matter.

If you want a book apart from the scriptures with a lot of truth in it, try "There are Save Two Churches Only" by D. Christian Markham

[Thomas]

And now it begins, just like I predicted on the other thread. It is like the crabs in the bucket pulling each other down.

[sarahmj]

To each their own Thomas. If you put something in the public domain, you open yourself up to scrutiny. I have scrutinised and shared my opinion. Others are welcome to do the same.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I wonder what the world would be like if we didn't have the scriptures or the LDS church and early church history - because people kept all their NDEs, visions, dreams, spiritual experiences, visits with angels, visits with the Savior, visits with God, supernatural, and prophecies to themselves... :-\

[gruden2.0]

And now it begins, just like I predicted on the other thread. It is like the crabs in the bucket pulling each other down.

Don't you think that's a bit pessimistic? Sarah doesn't care for Bro. Snuffer either, but she was polite about her disagreement about that as with Ms. Rowe. This is a forum for discourse and discussion, so let's be about that. I think it's a far better use of one's time than watching TV or random web surfing all night. Even the negativity here is on a much lower scale than what I see elsewhere on a daily basis. We're all big boys and girls, hopefully.

As for Sarah's comment, I've read a ton of NDE's as well, and even before I read Ms. Rowe's I was starting to steer away from them. One book I read the author basically stated in the forward that part of her account was fictionalized (apparently on the suggestion of her editor) to teach an idea of what she was shown in an interesting way, even though it isn't exactly what she saw. And they're all edited and/or recounted to someone else. So while they can be uplifting, it would be wise to remember that they're an individual experience, and the accounts provided may not even be true to what that individual had actually experienced for any number of reasons. Most of it is fodder for itching ears.

[sixpacktr]

I agree with what Sarah said. Too many of us are looking for 'end times' insight, and while I have no dog in the fight regarding Sis Rowe, and she may have just as well saw what she says she saw, I believe The Lord will go thru His appointed servants for 'church wide' pronouncements. If I were to receive a vision as to what it was like when the SHTF, I would regard that to be revelation for me and my family, as I am the PH holder and patriarch of my family, and it will be what The Lord wants ME to do, not necessarily anyone else. I would be loath to tell others 'here is what you need to do' as then I am taking the place of The Lord in teaching them.

Just my 2 cents.....

[Thomas]

And now it begins, just like I predicted on the other thread. It is like the crabs in the bucket pulling each other down.

Don't you think that's a bit pessimistic? Sarah doesn't care for Bro. Snuffer either, but she was polite about her disagreement about that as with Ms. Rowe. This is a forum for discourse and discussion, so let's be about that. I think it's a far better use of one's time than watching TV or random web surfing all night. Even the negativity here is on a much lower scale than what I see elsewhere on a daily basis. We're all big boys and girls, hopefully.

As for Sarah's comment, I've read a ton of NDE's as well, and even before I read Ms. Rowe's I was starting to steer away from them. One book I read the author basically stated in the forward that part of her account was fictionalized (apparently on the suggestion of her editor) to teach an idea of what she was shown in an interesting way, even though it isn't exactly what she saw. And they're all edited and/or recounted to someone else. So while they can be uplifting, it would be wise to remember that they're an individual experience, and the accounts provided may not even be true to what that individual had actually experienced for any number of reasons. Most of it is fodder for itching ears.

The crabs comment was referring to Julie Rowe's comments about Snuffer. I respect her right to receive revelation and share what she has to say. Evidently she thinks she is on the side of the brethren and is therefore Ok to share these things but Snuffer is not OK.

Kettle calling the pot black.

[Thomas]

To each their own Thomas. If you put something in the public domain, you open yourself up to scrutiny. I have scrutinised and shared my opinion. Others are welcome to do the same.

It's all good. I respect you opinion. My comment was not directed to you. You have always been polite, even though I disagree with some of your opinions.

[ajax]

First you say if the Lord is going to give us a message, He will through TSM and other PSRs.

Then you recommend a book by a non-PSR.

Something doesn't jive.

Why not just recommend Monson's books and all of the other books by the FP and Q12 through Deseret?

No way I'm trusting D Christian Markham.

[gruden2.0]

The crabs comment was referring to Julie Rowe's comments about Snuffer. I respect her right to receive revelation and share what she has to say. Evidently she thinks she is on the side of the brethren and is therefore Ok to share these things but Snuffer is not OK.

Kettle calling the pot black.

OK, I missed that one, that makes sense. I agree with you, I just think Sarah's comment falls outside that. It seems even the Institutionalists have their own factions.

[DPeterson]

The Lord has a pattern of revealing truth to his children and church and random people's dreams/visions/NDE's is not one of them. When it comes to prophecy we have the scriptures and we have prophets and we should be really really careful when it comes to heeding prophecy from sources other than them.

Wow, are you serious?

It's true, those spiritual manifestations are for them, and not for others, unless the Lord tells them to share.

You should not be waiting for a "prophet" to tell you about some truth. You should be getting it from revelations, dreams, visions, angelic messengers, etc for yourself. That is His pattern. He will communicate with you directly. Don't wait for someone else's revelations (I don't care who's they are). With that mindset you would have ignored John the Baptist, Abinidi and Samuel the Lamanite, for starters.

Joseph Smith said:

God hath not revealed anything to Joseph, but what he will make known unto the Twelve, and even the least Saint may know all things as fast as he is able to bear them...

Joel 2:28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Alma 12

10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

I could go on and on. It's not about God revealing information to "the Church". It's about God revealing information, and people just happen to be sharing what He revealed to them. I don't see any of these people outside of the church leadership claiming to be speaking to or for the church. They're just speaking. Listen, or don't, if you wish.

(Btw...I have no idea who Julie Rowe is. I don't need any other person's revelations. In a way I find that they just handicap me and keep me from getting my own. Though sometimes they inspire me to be more consistent at doing what I need to to get my own.)

[BagleyDarwin]

PM brings me back.

While I am here, I must say that I have always enjoyed and appreciated Dustin Peterson's balanced and wise input.

The message of the Gospel and the LDS Church and the LDS Apostles is and has always been, "Learn to think for yourself. Don't follow anyone blindly. Practice intelligent obedience. Go and get your own testimony, witness, experiences, dreams, visions, and revelations."

[passionflower]

-delete-

[sarahmj]

First you say if the Lord is going to give us a message, He will through TSM and other PSRs.

Then you recommend a book by a non-PSR.

Something doesn't jive.

Why not just recommend Monson's books and all of the other books by the FP and Q12 through Deseret?

No way I'm trusting D Christian Markham.

I'm just recommending this book because I read it recently and found it to contain much truth. I'll endorse any book that I've read and enjoyed and felt the Holy Ghost's presence with me. As for Julie Rowe's book and some other ones I could not give the same endorsement.

[DPeterson]

PM brings me back.

While I am here, I must say that I have always enjoyed and appreciated Dustin Peterson's balanced and wise input.

The message of the Gospel and the LDS Church and the LDS Apostles is and has always been, "Learn to think for yourself. Don't follow anyone blindly. Practice intelligent obedience. Go and get your own testimony, witness, experiences, dreams, visions, and revelations."

Well thank ya sir!

[sarahmj]

PM brings me back.

While I am here, I must say that I have always enjoyed and appreciated Dustin Peterson's balanced and wise input.

The message of the Gospel and the LDS Church and the LDS Apostles is and has always been, "Learn to think for yourself. Don't follow anyone blindly. Practice intelligent obedience. Go and get your own testimony, witness, experiences, dreams, visions, and revelations."

I agree. And because of my witness I cannot accept that Julie Rowe's experience is from The Lord.

[Bananikka]

This thread makes me sad and comfused. And not because I don't appreciate and respect the point of view of everybody here. (I do!)
But I who am just beginning to realize the beautiful world of clearly (not perhaps, or months later.. But clearly understood and almost immediate, albeit not every time..) answered prayers just brought this to The Lord in yes I think I can say mighty (very sincere) prayer.
I specifically asked about julie rowe. I got an amazingly wonderful feeling yes like the burning of my bosom only almost filling my entire body. I apologized for being "new and ignorant" and then asked (to test myself?) about something else (something that I was ironically hoping (and totally expecting!) to hear a yes about). Nothing at all. As I am new with his whole mighty prayer thing I went on to apologize for wearying Him but that I truly wanted to learn to recognize His voice, and asked about four more times. As I said, the answer I got for the question that id hoped for. Yes was absolutely nothing. And every single time I asked about julie rowe I was absolutely filled with this amazing burning overwhelming feeling of peace. Wow! A miracle! I went to share this with my daughter who is journeying spiritually with me. I was so excited! Could silly
ImmAture sinful insignificant little me actually be heard by the heavens and then even answered???
I was so joyful and said many tearful grateful thank yous and then crawled Into bed, surprised about to apparent "no" to my other question but amazed and overjoyed about this one.
And then I come on here, my guilty nightly pleasure. And I see this thread.
Please don't take this like I take myself as some sort of prophet or special person. I am far from special. But, as I assume we all (or atleat most of us, original poster here included for sure!) love and pray to the same God and are comforted by the same Comforter, how can we receive witnesses that contradict eachother?
I am just discouraged at the idea really and while I feel on the one hand "don't doubt His answer to you that He graciously offered not once but four times", on the other hand I feel like my goodness is somebody here being deceived?
Can we be deceived while in mighty (or deep and sincere) prayer? And if so how can we tell? Can a loving perfect God tell two of His children. Different things?
And please, forgive my ignorance here. I'm a work I progress!! And I am truly asking for thoughts here, with no desire at all to put down the original poster or upset anybody at all.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Can a loving perfect God tell two of His children. Different things?

Absolutely YES!!!!! Our journeys are utterly different and spheres of truth are different! One great example of this is the two prophets in 1 Kings 13 that were told different things by God that applied to them INDIVIDUALLY. We also may be led away from something if the fruit is out of season and not meant for us at THAT time. Trust what you were told, and respect the different answers others may receive - as their path is not yours.

[shestalou]

Can a loving perfect God tell two of His children. Different things?

Absolutely YES!!!!! Our journeys are utterly different and spheres of truth are different! One great example of this is the two prophets in 1 Kings 13 that were told different things by God that applied to them INDIVIDUALLY. We also may be led away from something if the fruit is out of season and not meant for us at THAT time. Trust what you were told, and respect the different answers others may receive - as their path is not yours.

I completely agree with this as I myself have recieved revelation from the Lord that contradicts the brethern, now dont go and say its from the devil its not, it actually made me finally understand scrioture better. :ymhug:

[Latter-day Patriot]

What's the worst that could come from believing in Julie Rowe's words? Essentially, she is admonishing us to heed the counsel of the prophet, whatever the cost, to get our food storage (something the Church has been asking us to do for years), and to recognize world events for what they are -- signs of the times. She hasn't written anything that opposes Church doctrine. She hasn't admonished people to do anything that might jeopardize their eternal salvation. Instead, she is inviting those who will listen to be more obedient in things the Church leadership is already teaching us. She is urging us not to hesitate to do as the Prophet advises. Why willingly turn a blind eye to that?

People might say that this NDE was for her alone and therefore not necessarily relevant to others, but I think that's a false view in this case. Julie herself said that she was given this task in the pre-existence to complete in her mortal life. God has given her this experience and has asked her to share it with others for the purpose of preparing others.

I can personally attest to the truthfulness of Julie's words. I have felt the spiritual assurance that what she has written is truth and should be carefully considered. Even if you refuse to read her book or believe on her words, if you'll just get your food storage in order and make no hesitation when following the prophet, you will be doing what Julie has set out to accomplish. The things that are happening all over the world today should be a loud enough voice of warning to do these things already.

[rewcox]

I remember seeing someone's ideas on license plate sayings.

For Utah, it was "My Jesus is bigger than your Jesus".

Maybe someone should start a thread, "My Prophet is Badder than Your Prophet".

For sure, some people believe Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet.

Even as I write this, the hairs are standing up on those who follow Denver Snuffer, 'cause he is the real prophet! TSM is just an administrator. Denver's been to the desert. Although, I don't know if he eats locusts or not.

And Julie Rowe, well, she's just in it for money, right?

Well, who is your baddest prophet?

[Bambi]

Can a loving perfect God tell two of His children. Different things?

Absolutely YES!!!!! Our journeys are utterly different and spheres of truth are different! One great example of this is the two prophets in 1 Kings 13 that were told different things by God that applied to them INDIVIDUALLY. We also may be led away from something if the fruit is out of season and not meant for us at THAT time. Trust what you were told, and respect the different answers others may receive - as their path is not yours.

1 Kings 13
18 And he said to him, “I also am a prophet as you are, and an angel spoke to me by the word of the Lord, saying, ‘Bring him back with you into your house that he may eat bread and drink water.’” But he lied to him.

Besides one of the prophets lying there is quite a bit of information either lost or omitted on
purpose. I have impressions what really happened.

[DrZoidberg]

1 Kings 13
18 And he said to him, “I also am a prophet as you are, and an angel spoke to me by the word of the Lord, saying, ‘Bring him back with you into your house that he may eat bread and drink water.’” But he lied to him.

In the JST version we read " that I may prove him; and he lied not unto him "

[BagleyDarwin]

This thread makes me sad and comfused. And not because I don't appreciate and respect the point of view of everybody here. (I do!)
But I who am just beginning to realize the beautiful world of clearly (not perhaps, or months later.. But clearly understood and almost immediate, albeit not every time..) answered prayers just brought this to The Lord in yes I think I can say mighty (very sincere) prayer.
I specifically asked about julie rowe. I got an amazingly wonderful feeling yes like the burning of my bosom only almost filling my entire body. I apologized for being "new and ignorant" and then asked (to test myself?) about something else (something that I was ironically hoping (and totally expecting!) to hear a yes about). Nothing at all. As I am new with his whole mighty prayer thing I went on to apologize for wearying Him but that I truly wanted to learn to recognize His voice, and asked about four more times. As I said, the answer I got for the question that id hoped for. Yes was absolutely nothing. And every single time I asked about julie rowe I was absolutely filled with this amazing burning overwhelming feeling of peace. Wow! A miracle! I went to share this with my daughter who is journeying spiritually with me. I was so excited! Could silly
ImmAture sinful insignificant little me actually be heard by the heavens and then even answered???
I was so joyful and said many tearful grateful thank yous and then crawled Into bed, surprised about to apparent "no" to my other question but amazed and overjoyed about this one.
And then I come on here, my guilty nightly pleasure. And I see this thread.
Please don't take this like I take myself as some sort of prophet or special person. I am far from special. But, as I assume we all (or atleat most of us, original poster here included for sure!) love and pray to the same God and are comforted by the same Comforter, how can we receive witnesses that contradict eachother?
I am just discouraged at the idea really and while I feel on the one hand "don't doubt His answer to you that He graciously offered not once but four times", on the other hand I feel like my goodness is somebody here being deceived?
Can we be deceived while in mighty (or deep and sincere) prayer? And if so how can we tell? Can a loving perfect God tell two of His children. Different things?
And please, forgive my ignorance here. I'm a work I progress!! And I am truly asking for thoughts here, with no desire at all to put down the original poster or upset anybody at all.

You are getting right to the heart of something that has bothered me for decades.

You see, every Television Evangelist is preaching Christ. Every pastor and father in every Christian Church is preaching Christ. Every false prophet is preaching Christ. Yet, when you get right down to it, none of them are preaching the same thing. Even the version of Jesus that they preach is different from one denomination to another. It creates a great deal of confusion.

Is Christ divided, or is there some kind of order in His house that we simply cannot see? How can we tell the true prophets from the false prophets? Or are all the prophets false prophets?

Ephesians 4: 5: One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

This scripture tells us that there is only One Jesus, not custom made Jesuses for each Christian denomination.
This scripture tells us that there is only one faith, or one true religion, or only one Church of Jesus Christ that is Christ's Own Church.
This scripture tells us that there is only one baptism that God the Father will recognize. There is only one Church of Jesus Christ that we can be baptized into and have that baptism accepted by the Father. There is only one baptism that is efficacious.

During much confusion, pondering, and prayer, I came to a realization. Since every prophet, true or false, preaches Christ and tries to lead us to Christ, there must be found some other way to distinguish the true prophets from the false prophets.

Do you know what I came up with?

First of all, a true prophet of God will lead you to the Church of Jesus Christ, and a false prophet will not. It's a very simple, but a very powerful concept. A true prophet of God, no matter how imperfect the individual might be, will be striving to lead every one of us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A true prophet of God will be a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whether formally called as such or not.

Second of all, a true prophet of God will point you to Christ's Apostles and tell you to listen to Christ's Living Apostles. A false prophet will not. Why is this important? It's because the Apostles of God will point you to baptism and confirmation in the Church of Jesus Christ. The Apostles of God will point you to Temple Ordinances and Temple Covenants. The Apostles of God will have the Keys of the Priesthood and will have received a commission to administer the Covenants and Ordinances of the Gospel. What the Apostles of God do is binding on the Lord, because they are His authorized representatives here on this earth.

Third, a true prophet of God will preach of Christ and point us to Christ, which is something that all the prophets try to do, whether they are true prophets or false prophets.


Ephesians 4: 11-14:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

So that we could avoid being deceived by the cunning craftiness of men, Jesus Christ gave us Apostles.

Jesus Christ sees Himself and His Church as being one and the same thing. He calls His Church the Body of Christ.

The purpose of Christ's Apostles is to bring us to a unity of the faith, to a knowledge of Jesus Christ, and to a completeness or Gospel Fulness. The purpose of the Apostles is to keep the Doctrine of Christ pure and unpolluted.

So, a true prophet of God will not only lead us to Jesus Christ but he will also lead us to Christ's Apostles and to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If a prophet is not doing these three things, then the prophet is not a true prophet of God, no matter how appealing the message might be.

[BagleyDarwin]

Now that I have posted this, let me ask:

Is Julie Rowe pointing us to Jesus Christ?
Is Julie Rowe pointing us to Christ's Apostles?
Is Julie Rowe pointing us to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

If you can answer yes to these three questions and keep answering in the affirmative, then chances are good that Julie Rowe is serving in the role of a prophetess of God right now. However, if she starts to point us away from one of these three things, and starts pointing us to herself and her books instead, then beware. Whenever they shift focus away from one of these three things, then that's when they fall and cease to be prophets of God.