Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
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Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Could it be that the older men who believe they overcame the sin of masturbation though repeated repentance, religious devotion and adherence, actually overcame it because of the normal waning of testosterone that accompanies aging?
This post explores that possibility and what it would imply.
http://bit.ly/selfabusecycle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It includes an explanation of the following Graph which you might find very interesting.
As a bonus, don't forget to follow the comment exchange between the blog author and Amadeus at the end of the article!
This post explores that possibility and what it would imply.
http://bit.ly/selfabusecycle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It includes an explanation of the following Graph which you might find very interesting.
As a bonus, don't forget to follow the comment exchange between the blog author and Amadeus at the end of the article!
Last edited by bomonomo on August 12th, 2014, 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Obrien
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
I predict this thread gets 500 views and 3 reply posts....
edit - 3 reply posts BY MEN.
edit - 3 reply posts BY MEN.
Last edited by Obrien on August 12th, 2014, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
This is a real sore subject for me as I have seen the pain first hand. I think the church should spend more time teaching service, and charity and helping these young men develop their personal relationship with their Savior rather than worrying about what young men do with their genitals. Obviously porn can be destructive. Maybe if we spent less time worrying about natural sexual urges, porn wouldn't be as much of a problem. Unhealthy views about natural sexual urges put these things in evil light, driving it under ground hence the spike in issues with pornography. I know I am taking a HUGE chance posting this reply but I have seen much pain regarding the church's handling of these issues.
Last edited by kathedralegs on August 13th, 2014, 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Do any other people besides Mormons call it "self-abuse"? What a horrible substitute for the proper terminology.
I agree with Kathy's thoughts above ^^^^^.
I agree with Kathy's thoughts above ^^^^^.
- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
This just seems like common sense to me.
Regarding the term "self-abuse," I would guess that if non-mos heard that a dude was engaging in "self-abuse," they would assume that person was cutting himself, or something truly abusive.
Regarding the term "self-abuse," I would guess that if non-mos heard that a dude was engaging in "self-abuse," they would assume that person was cutting himself, or something truly abusive.
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
I agree with this. RIght on the money.kathedralegs wrote:This is a real sore subject for me as I have seen the pain first hand. I think the church should spend more time teaching service, and charity and helping these young men develop their personal relationship with their Savior than worrying about what young men do with their genitals. Obviously porn can be destructive. Maybe if we spent less time worrying about natural sexual urges, porn wouldn't be as much of a problem. Unhealthy views about natural sexual urges put these things in evil light, driving it under ground hence the spike in issues with pornography. I know I am taking a HUGE chance posting this reply but I have seen much pain regarding the church's handling of these issues.
And how about self-pleasuring instead of self-abuse. More realistic.
- Obrien
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
this thread reminded me of an unfortunate intersection of name and profession.
I used to work for a company who employed a master mechanic with the last name of Bates. he constantly dealt with a master - Bates issue. I swear on a stack of bibles that's true.
I used to work for a company who employed a master mechanic with the last name of Bates. he constantly dealt with a master - Bates issue. I swear on a stack of bibles that's true.
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
One of my mother's hobbies was to collect unusual names. One name that I distinctly remember was: Sharon Agutter . Probably related to Jennie Agutter (sp?), the movie star.Obrien wrote:this thread reminded me of an unfortunate intersection of name and profession.
I used to work for a company who employed a master mechanic with the last name of Bates. he constantly dealt with a master - Bates issue. I swear on a stack of bibles that's true.
- Curious Workman
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- Obrien
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Almost 1/2 way to 500 views, so far only 4 relevant replies, 2 from women, 2 from men.
- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
If we aren't supposed to fly solo, then why did God make it so darn convenient. I mean..."it" is right there...right in front...at the same level as your hands...
If a man was proportioned like a t-rex, then it would be a different story.
If a man was proportioned like a t-rex, then it would be a different story.
- ajax
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Poor John McCain.jbalm wrote:If we aren't supposed to fly solo, then why did God make it so darn convenient. I mean..."it" is right there...right in front...at the same level as your hands...
If a man was proportioned like a t-rex, then it would be a different story.
- Original_Intent
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
I'll take my victories any way I can get them.
- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
=))ajax wrote:Poor John McCain.jbalm wrote:If we aren't supposed to fly solo, then why did God make it so darn convenient. I mean..."it" is right there...right in front...at the same level as your hands...
If a man was proportioned like a t-rex, then it would be a different story.
Explains why he's such a cantankerous old cuss.
- stillwater
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Self abuse is an old term for it. We inherited our whole ethos and morality regarding maspergration from the surrounding puritan and victorian cultures.Lizzy60 wrote:Do any other people besides Mormons call it "self-abuse"? What a horrible substitute for the proper terminology.
I agree with Kathy's thoughts above ^^^^^.
- ajax
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Nice tip-of-the-cap to the late Robin Williams and his curious pronunskiation.stillwater wrote:Self abuse is an old term for it. We inherited our whole ethos and morality regarding maspergration from the surrounding puritan and victorian cultures.Lizzy60 wrote:Do any other people besides Mormons call it "self-abuse"? What a horrible substitute for the proper terminology.
I agree with Kathy's thoughts above ^^^^^.
- Obrien
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- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Don't just sit there.Obrien wrote:getting close....
This thread could be a good one...depending on what kind of mood the mods are in.
I'd hate to get a thread locked for talking about "giving yourself a low five," or "fly fishing," or "hoisting your own petard."
(The things you learn in the military...)
Anyway, my son informed me that the shrink for his mission counseled (at least some) missionaries that competing in Onan's Olympics was an acceptable way to deal with stress, so long as they did so "in moderation." True story. Confirmed by one of my son's mission companions.
Apparently, the occasional one night stand with yourself isn't that big a deal anymore.
:ymcowboy:
- Original_Intent
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
poor Onan, so misunderstood...jbalm wrote:Don't just sit there.Obrien wrote:getting close....
This thread could be a good one...depending on what kind of mood the mods are in.
I'd hate to get a thread locked for talking about "giving yourself a low five," or "fly fishing," or "hoisting your own petard."
(The things you learn in the military...)
Anyway, my son informed me that the shrink for his mission counseled (at least some) missionaries that competing in Onan's Olympics was an acceptable way to deal with stress, so long as they did so "in moderation." True story. Confirmed by one of my son's mission companions.
Apparently, the occasional one night stand with yourself isn't that big a deal anymore.
:ymcowboy:
- OnGoing
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
It's not just the boys. The girls are just told they have to lie about it and pretend they never do anything like that. (My family joined the church when I was 11 and I was 14 or 15 before I heard that it wasn't allowed. WAAAAY too late by then!)
Don't get me started on the sexual repression topic. If I say hello to a brother at church I am "flirting". If he dares to say hello back, he obviously is trying to get some. Common kindness has been twisted into sexual desire.
Been to a church youth dance lately? Down here the kids are so danged awkward about their bodies and their interactions that it is uncomfortable to watch! They text all day long but they cannot interact face-to-face properly. They dance at arm's length and step side-to-side like how toddlers dance. I know they will outgrow that as they get a bit older but when I see the 17 & 18 year-olds still doing that I just cringe.
Remember being at a dance and having a young man wrap his arm around your waist and lead you in such a masculine way that you actually FELT like a girl and LIKED IT? Ever have your arm around a sweet young woman and the gentle way her curves swayed in step with you made you feel like a man? We parents are told that our kids are out having wild sex and doing all these awful things. Some are...after they EXPLODE in their mid-teen years because they can't handle the conflict of hormones vs. being told every tiny thought is a sin. But for the most part the kids are having "sex" with their phones by looking at porn or texting images to each other. Technology is kind of getting in the way of our relationships.
I'm so glad my cell phone in high school was just for making phone calls. Even in making mistakes with guys who got a little boob-grabby I was still learning about human connections from having a relationship with another real living, breathing, warm-bodied individual. And why are the boys grabbing at you anyways? Because they are starving for that human connection! Yes, they are hormone-fueled but deep down they are human too and they want to be loved. They just don't know how to go about it quite right. (Perhaps because the Lord gave them biological drives and man tells them they are sinners because of it?)
I feel that the men suffer the most. I go to hug my husband's cousins, friends of the family or other trusted brothers and I can feel that they are a mess. Their hands hover somewhere above my back as they freeze upright, unsure of what to do because the lady humps might be touching them as I give them a hug. If we are the only species where females have large breasts, even when not producing milk, don't you think the Lord did it for a reason? I think He did it so that we look visually different and that even the act of hugging reminds us of our different and special genders. And guess what? I don't even notice if my boobs smash into you. I run them into a half-dozen or more solid objects every day and have become so desensitized to their presence that I don't even think about them when I hug someone...until that poor guy suddenly goes all awkward on me. Just enjoy the free boob-smash, will you? I certainly don't care! You're not a criminal for getting a hug or saying hello or being a sweetheart!
Don't get me started on the sexual repression topic. If I say hello to a brother at church I am "flirting". If he dares to say hello back, he obviously is trying to get some. Common kindness has been twisted into sexual desire.
Been to a church youth dance lately? Down here the kids are so danged awkward about their bodies and their interactions that it is uncomfortable to watch! They text all day long but they cannot interact face-to-face properly. They dance at arm's length and step side-to-side like how toddlers dance. I know they will outgrow that as they get a bit older but when I see the 17 & 18 year-olds still doing that I just cringe.
Remember being at a dance and having a young man wrap his arm around your waist and lead you in such a masculine way that you actually FELT like a girl and LIKED IT? Ever have your arm around a sweet young woman and the gentle way her curves swayed in step with you made you feel like a man? We parents are told that our kids are out having wild sex and doing all these awful things. Some are...after they EXPLODE in their mid-teen years because they can't handle the conflict of hormones vs. being told every tiny thought is a sin. But for the most part the kids are having "sex" with their phones by looking at porn or texting images to each other. Technology is kind of getting in the way of our relationships.
I'm so glad my cell phone in high school was just for making phone calls. Even in making mistakes with guys who got a little boob-grabby I was still learning about human connections from having a relationship with another real living, breathing, warm-bodied individual. And why are the boys grabbing at you anyways? Because they are starving for that human connection! Yes, they are hormone-fueled but deep down they are human too and they want to be loved. They just don't know how to go about it quite right. (Perhaps because the Lord gave them biological drives and man tells them they are sinners because of it?)
I feel that the men suffer the most. I go to hug my husband's cousins, friends of the family or other trusted brothers and I can feel that they are a mess. Their hands hover somewhere above my back as they freeze upright, unsure of what to do because the lady humps might be touching them as I give them a hug. If we are the only species where females have large breasts, even when not producing milk, don't you think the Lord did it for a reason? I think He did it so that we look visually different and that even the act of hugging reminds us of our different and special genders. And guess what? I don't even notice if my boobs smash into you. I run them into a half-dozen or more solid objects every day and have become so desensitized to their presence that I don't even think about them when I hug someone...until that poor guy suddenly goes all awkward on me. Just enjoy the free boob-smash, will you? I certainly don't care! You're not a criminal for getting a hug or saying hello or being a sweetheart!
- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Yes. But he is widely misunderstood, so it still gets the point across.Original_Intent wrote:poor Onan, so misunderstood...jbalm wrote:Don't just sit there.Obrien wrote:getting close....
This thread could be a good one...depending on what kind of mood the mods are in.
I'd hate to get a thread locked for talking about "giving yourself a low five," or "fly fishing," or "hoisting your own petard."
(The things you learn in the military...)
Anyway, my son informed me that the shrink for his mission counseled (at least some) missionaries that competing in Onan's Olympics was an acceptable way to deal with stress, so long as they did so "in moderation." True story. Confirmed by one of my son's mission companions.
Apparently, the occasional one night stand with yourself isn't that big a deal anymore.
:ymcowboy:
- wildernessdaughter
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
jbalm -- I believe your story about the missionaries. On his mission, someone really close to me occassionally "relieved" himself and eventually felt so guilty about it that he went and confessed to the mission president, who told him that he needed to be careful and that refraining from masturbation was a matter of self control.
Pretty much told him, "get out of my office and come back if you have something important to talk about."
I really think this is a topic that gets totally blown out of proportion. Does masturbation invite the spirit? Probably not. Your time could be used more productively. But I hate it when people try to say it is a sin next to murder. Sheesh. For crying out loud, babies touch themselves, 12-year-old boys (yes, even those who have never been exposed to porn or told how to masturbate) touch themselves, and young women who are learning about their sexuality do too. It's a natural developmental phase and need that, I believe, fades as we mature and hopefully develop a healthy sexual relationship with our spouse. IMHO.
Pretty much told him, "get out of my office and come back if you have something important to talk about."
I really think this is a topic that gets totally blown out of proportion. Does masturbation invite the spirit? Probably not. Your time could be used more productively. But I hate it when people try to say it is a sin next to murder. Sheesh. For crying out loud, babies touch themselves, 12-year-old boys (yes, even those who have never been exposed to porn or told how to masturbate) touch themselves, and young women who are learning about their sexuality do too. It's a natural developmental phase and need that, I believe, fades as we mature and hopefully develop a healthy sexual relationship with our spouse. IMHO.
- jbalm
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
My brother told me a similar story about his mission.wildernessdaughter wrote:jbalm -- I believe your story about the missionaries. On his mission, someone really close to me occassionally "relieved" himself and eventually felt so guilty about it that he went and confessed to the mission president, who told him that he needed to be careful and that refraining from masturbation was a matter of self control.
Pretty much told him, "get out of my office and come back if you have something important to talk about."
I really think this is a topic that gets totally blown out of proportion. Does masturbation invite the spirit? Probably not. Your time could be used more productively. But I hate it when people try to say it is a sin next to murder. Sheesh. For crying out loud, babies touch themselves, 12-year-old boys (yes, even those who have never been exposed to porn or told how to masturbate) touch themselves, and young women who are learning about their sexuality do too. It's a natural developmental phase and need that, I believe, fades as we mature and hopefully develop a healthy sexual relationship with our spouse. IMHO.
Apparently, a lot of the boys were reading "Miracle of Forgiveness," which, if you've ever read it, makes you feel like you're going to hell for sure. Anyway, the boys kept going to the MP, wracked with guilt every time they decided to "be their own best friend." The MP, who was ex-military and used salty language from time to time, finally had enough and told the boys to "quit reading that damn book."
And yes, little boys discover themselves pretty darn early. My little 3-year-old nephew thinks his little you-know-what is a handle for pulling himself around everywhere he goes. It's pretty funny.
- Zowieink
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Got any bishops in here. I'd like their take on the matter. From this old guy its been a battle ever since I joined the church. What is the real story? It seems to me that what goes on in your head is far more relevant. If your dreaming about sex while masturbating that probably isn't good. But if you aren't thinking anything but of taking care of matters, that seems acceptable to this salty old guy.
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Re: Self-Abuse: Victory by age rather than repentance?
Man I remember Jenny Agutter. She stole my heart and other things at an early age . i still have occasional visions of her in" Walkabout". Well I won't get any more work done today.larsenb wrote:One of my mother's hobbies was to collect unusual names. One name that I distinctly remember was: Sharon Agutter . Probably related to Jennie Agutter (sp?), the movie star.Obrien wrote:this thread reminded me of an unfortunate intersection of name and profession.
I used to work for a company who employed a master mechanic with the last name of Bates. he constantly dealt with a master - Bates issue. I swear on a stack of bibles that's true.