Which kingdoms did Christ promise to the 12 in America?

[Bryan LJ]

Before we get too far into this discussion let's acknowledge that it isn't our right to judge but Christ has made promises to certain individuals. Let's start by defining some of these kingdoms:

The Terrestrial is the Kingdom of Christ in a sense. He is the presiding authority. D&C 76:77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

The Celestial Kingdom is that of the Father. D&C 76:70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

Now let's look at what Christ promises the 12 disciples whom he called to lead the church in the Americas in 3 Nephi Chapter 28.

1 And it came to pass when Jesus had said these words, he spake unto his disciples, one by one, saying unto them: What is it that ye desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?

2 And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.

3 And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest.

(Notice he says MY KINGDOM)

4 And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?

5 And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.

6 And he said unto them: Behold, I know your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which John, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.

7 Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven.

8 And ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father.

(Notice he words it differently when speaking to the 3 Nephites. Further more he clarifies)

9 And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the sins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.

10 And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are bone;

I'm sure there will people that disagree with me on this but please let go of culture and tradition and exam this for what it actually says. There are several lessons to be learned. The fruit is good. These 3 offered so serve more. They didn't take the easy path. This testifies of how important it is to love and serve one another.

It also breaks down the whole "Follow the Prophet" mentality. Follow the prophet, there is a 75% (9/12) chance that you would be following someone to the Terrestrial Kingdom if we keep this same pattern for today. We know that the scriptures testified that Christ has received a fullness of the Father. He is our example. It is our command as well. 3 Nephi 27:27 "Therefore, what manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am." - Christ

[Original_Intent]

No good will come from speculating on this. Not saying some valid points weren't made, but they could have been made without the question phrased in the topic.

[Simon]

I think that judgement even by what we know from the scriptures is worth nothing if we dont know the heart and intent of any other person.

[Bryan LJ]

My intent is to show that we shouldn't judge. That applies unequivocally, whether someone goes to the Celestial or Outer Darkness or wherever else. Do I believe that the other 9 will be consigned outside of the Celestial Kingdom forever, no. I don't know any of that for sure. All I know is what was written. It's not my right but I do believe that it illustrates that God is no respecter of persons and that we shouldn't just make assumptions about anyone because of their calling in the church, government, success with money, etc. One question to add too is, If the 9 disciples inherited Celestial Glory would that revoke His promise of receiving His kingdom? I believe not. The promise may be a minimum and may poke at some of my points but I do believe they are still valid. It is not for me to judge.

The whole point is that we should follow Christ, not judge, not cling so tight to traditions (assumptions that a high calling is a promise of eternal life), serve and love one another. I am deeply sorry if anyone has taken this as an attack on anyone. It is not meant so.

[Simon]

I did not take it as an offence, in fact I think you make some great points. I just feel it is impossible for us to truely know where others will end up, even if we can theoretically judge them by what we know from the scriptures. There is so much more we need to know to know

[Thinker]

The whole point is that we should follow Christ, not judge, not cling so tight to traditions (assumptions that a high calling is a promise of eternal life), serve and love one another.

I agree, and I appreciate you pointing that out.

I believe Jesus when he taught, "The kingdom of God is within you."
Kingdom can also mean realm or experience.
We will attain that experience or consciousness which we individually attain, much of which is based on humility and empathy (an ability to love in meaningful ways). The social position is insignificant compared to one's ability to love well.

[TZONE]

I love the quote by hyrum smith, I can look it up later that all those in the millenium will either progress into a celestial state or recede to a telestial state else the moon could not be a type of the terrestial kingdom.

I think the fact THEY did not want o "stick" around to help people shows what is required for celestial beings that we must learn. That they are those who sacrifice themselves for tohers. For they receive their covenants by Sacrifice as well.

[Bryan LJ]

I love the quote by hyrum smith, I can look it up later that all those in the millenium will either progress into a celestial state or recede to a telestial state else the moon could not be a type of the terrestial kingdom.

I think the fact THEY did not want o "stick" around to help people shows what is required for celestial beings that we must learn. That they are those who sacrifice themselves for tohers. For they receive their covenants by Sacrifice as well.

Yes, I would be very interested in that quote.

[jockeybox]

I love the quote by hyrum smith, I can look it up later that all those in the millenium will either progress into a celestial state or recede to a telestial state

Yes, I would be very interested in that quote.

Not to steal tzones thunder, but I was also interested in this and found this website that that listed the quote you were looking for:

"Words of the Prophet", p. 24 ("Scriptural Items"); Scribe: Franklin D. Richards, August 1, 1843; CHO Ms/d/4409/Misc Minutes Collection.
Hiram [Smith] said Aug 1st [18]43 Those of the Terrestrial Glory either advance to the Celestial or recede to the Telestial [or] else the moon could not be a type [viz. a symbol of that kingdom]. [for] it [the moon] "waxes & wanes". Also that br George will be quickened by celestial glory having been ministered to by one of that Kingdom.

Although not requested, this one is also applicable:

J.D. 25:236; Franklin D. Richards; Discourse delivered in the Tabernacle, Logan, Cache County; Saturday afternoon; May 17, 1884.
. . .but those in the terrestrial kingdom are those who will come forth at the time when Enoch comes back, when the Savior comes again to dwell upon the earth. . . .They will go forward, like unto the new moon, increasing in knowledge and brightness and glory, until they come to a fullness of celestial glory. During the Millennium multitudes of people who have not heard the gospel will hear and receive it and go forward into this glory, while those who will not go forward to a fullness will go back to that lesser glory which is likened unto the stars of heaven. . . .

[TZONE]

Thats the one Thanks.