Qualifications to become and remain a member of the Church

[Amonhi]

I was talking with my wife last night and she brought up this very interesting point:

[quote]Baptismal Interview Questions
1. Do you believe that God is our Eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world?
2. Do you believe the Church and gospel of Jesus Christ have been restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith? Do you believe that [current Church President] is a prophet of God? What does this mean to you?
3. What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past transgressions?
4. Have you ever committed a serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? Have you ever participated in an abortion? a homosexual relationship?
5. You have been taught that membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes living gospel standards. What do you understand of the following standards? Are you willing to obey them?
a. The law of chastity, which prohibits any sexual relationship outside the bonds of a legal marriage between a man and a woman.
b. The law of tithing.
c. The Word of Wisdom.
d. The Sabbath day, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to fellow members.
6. When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep His commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?
- http://www.lds.org/manual/preach-my-gos ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[quote]
Understanding and agreeing with the positive answers to these questions is what is required to qualify to be baptized. And One might argue that this is the LDS requirement for baptism which is not God's/Scriptures/Adam's or the given requirement for baptism from the beginning of history. But it is the LDS requirement for baptism. So, if a person can answer affirmatively/correctly with true conviction all these questions appropriately, then they qualify to be baptized.

If a person like Denver Snuffer were able to qualify for baptism like any new member could, then why should they be excommunicated?

Some might say that disagreeing with your leaders is a sin and so falls ambiguously under either point 3 or 5.

I think it would be reasonable if the church decided to add another interview question to the baptismal interview questions to address this so that a person knows how to qualify for and remain qualified to be a member of the church. What question would you create that would explain the excommunication of people like Denver Snuffer and others for ??? not being amendable to their leaders opinions, instructions, unrighteous dominion??? (Not even sure what to call it...


Amonhi

[jockeybox]

I think it would be reasonable if the church decided to add another interview question to the baptismal interview questions to address this so that a person knows how to qualify for and remain qualified to be a member of the church. What question would you create that would explain the excommunication of people like Denver Snuffer and others for ??? not being amendable to their leaders opinions, instructions, unrighteous dominion???

You are making a good points and I like where you are going, but can you clarify what you are asking the forum. Are you asking what question would you/me add to the baptismal interview for a new member to explain the potential to get excommunicated? Or is your intention something else?

[Lilli]

Before people are baptized the Church teaches investigators to read, question, study, search, test, compare, ponder and pray and 'prove all things' and only follow what they know to be good and true and what is in harmony with the scriptures and Christ.

"We invite you to explore it, to test it, to pray and search and seriously consider. Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. Only if you are unafraid of truth, can you find it." From LDS Filmstrip "Man's Search For Happiness"

But once people join the Church they are taught that the 'thinking has been done for them' and to 'not question, compare or prove all things' anymore, but to just follow whatever the leaders may say, even if it's contrary to the scriptures and does not seem 'good', right or true. And they are told to not follow the Spirit anymore if it's contrary to what your leaders say.

For when people do keep searching, testing, studying, questioning, praying and proving all things as they continue to learn, they can quickly come up with serious and vital questions.

[Melissa]

Is it possible that it remains the same as before baptism as it does when you become a member? is it possible that we limit OURSELVES to not questioning anything the church does? I believe that we are still taught to seek and find our own answers and many choose to "fall in line" with the culture of being a mormon.

Eternal progression is based on the principles we teach investigators...seek your own answers. I also believe that if more members kept searching and seeking further knowledge and truths then maybe, as questions (some serious) arise, they would be adressed more.

We all want to belong and fit in and most are fearful to stand out with questions...especially in a religious setting with strict bounds to stay within. What do you think?

[dman]

I am no expert on Denver Snuffer. I know many on here know much more than I do. But based on my limited understanding I would think he would have a problem with the question about Sustaining the current prophet. I don't think there is a question that would need to be added, I think it is already there.

[Lilli]

I am no expert on Denver Snuffer. I know many on here know much more than I do. But based on my limited understanding I would think he would have a problem with the question about Sustaining the current prophet. I don't think there is a question that would need to be added, I think it is already there.

I guess it depends on a person's definition of 'sustaining'. Some believe it means to follow unquestioningly, even if they think the prophet is wrong. Others feel prophets aren't infallible and thus can be wrong at times or just giving their opinion, and so they believe in sustaining and following the prophet only 'in righteousness', when he is speaking truth.

It seems that Denver believes that the President of the Church is a prophet, (which means he would pass that question) but Denver may not believe Prophets are infallible and thus won't following them blindly.

I believe 'sustaining' church leaders also means helping them see their errors too, for they own good too, whether it's a Bishop or a Prophet, as well as supporting and following them in doing what's right and true.

Apostle Orson Pratt said:
“. . . convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds.”
(Orson Pratt, “The Seer”, pp. 15-16)

[jockeybox]

Apostle Orson Pratt said:
“. . . convince us of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds.”
(Orson Pratt, “The Seer”, pp. 15-16)

How refreshing to hear this. If only our prophets, seers and revelators could have the same mind set. I would love to hear that in conference.

[Alighieri]

jockeybox, go to your Stake President (President Packard I think) and ask him the same thing. I sure your priesthood leader could help you a bit one what it means to sustain the prophet.

[jockeybox]

jockeybox, go to your Stake President (President Packard I think) and ask him the same thing. I sure your priesthood leader could help you a bit one what it means to sustain the prophet.

I have complete respect for my stake president. I do not pretend to have a close relationship with him, but I sustain him in the ways that I can, limited as they may be. From what I can gather, you seemed concerned that I am speaking evil, or fault finding.

A couple questions for you. First, what in my comment makes you think I do not sustain them/him? Please expound on what don't you agree with in Orson Pratt's quote? This isn't an attack, but a sincere question, as I don't know where you are coming from with my support of Orson quote.

Second, what do you feel is wrong with my desire to hear our current prophets/apostles/seers/revelators say they are not past question or correction?

Our church has created a culture that, metaphorically speaking, if my priesthood leaders fly is down, I shouldn't say anything.

[natasha]

That's funny.....I always say "XYZ"