On Priestcraft

[log]

Priestcraft is one of those things which, in our church, is something which cannot be justly applied against others, for who knoweth the heart save God only? It is rather one of those things about which we ask "Lord, is it I?" Apparently, this is actually a big issue in the CES. Instructors apparently feel they are committing priestcraft, and I have read a talk addressing those concerns: http://www.lds.org/manual/teaching-semi ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I had a conversation with a man who said he had a brother who taught in CES for a few years and then left the system. He could never reconcile in his mind that he was teaching the gospel for money. This man asked me how I reconcile it in my mind. It is a great question. How do we reconcile that? Most of us have probably contemplated it, probably before we were hired and I suspect many times since then.

Do you know why that is revealing?

1 John 3:20
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

If they feel like they are committing priestcraft, or fear that they are, then they are.

"Be sure THAT A MAN WHO DOES NOT KNOW HE IS PURE, IS NOT PURE.' - Brigham Young, The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Vol 3, p. 190

[Simon]

"Be sure THAT A MAN WHO DOES NOT KNOW HE IS PURE, IS NOT PURE.' - Brigham Young, The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Vol 3, p. 190

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 1

27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

James 1



Understanding this, we need to ask ourselves wether we know God, and wether we live pure religion. Do we keep ourselves unspotted by living truth ?

But God shewed me that I should not call any man common of unclean

Acts 10:28

[log]

Luke 19:22
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant.

A man is his own tormentor and his own condemner. Hence the saying, "They shall go into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone." The torment of disappointment in the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstone. I say, so is the torment of man. - TPJS 357

[AnthonyR]

Holy shite log... go to sleep, have some sex, go play with the kids, walk the dog, go make dinner with your wife, go Christmas shopping. I am thinking you are paid to be on here also with all the hours you spend here. This is all you do. I mean, what are you? Neo? Sleeping in front of your computer? I am myself being a bit contentious here but have you heard yourself lately? Whenever you shanghai a post, many times it turns contentious and the spirit is gone. I may be the only one here who feels this way but i feel the need to speak. I am tired of the one line bull $#!% contentious rebuttals. Lets face it, your right. No matter what you are right. You are a scriptorian, and can whip out a whitty rebuttal before Clint Eastwood can pull out his Magnum 6 shot. Your knowledge means nothing if not used with gentleness and unsuperiority. I am being a hypocrit here, i admit it. I am not being gentle myself at this time. But i have seen you bulldoze enough. I appreciate some of your posts, but there is so much belittlement and contention in your tone many times. I have my agency to view your posts or not. I am choosing to bypass what you have to say from here on out. Too many times I will be in the Heavenly Gift area, feel a flood of the spirit, then read one of your better than thou contentious postings and the spirit is gone. I am left to mourne because I read one of your one liners which irritates and gets under the skin.

I'm done &!@$#%$@ but if you look at my post with a prayer and in humility, there is something in here that you could learn.

Don't expect me to respond to this. Think it over before whipping them pistols out, and I aint whistlin dixie either.

[log]

I'm sorry you don't feel like you have the capacity to tolerate me, AnthonyR.

[log]

As an addendum to the OP (which has as yet gone unremarked upon), I wish to point out that in demonstrating that a paid clergy is scriptural, I have established that merely getting paid is not a sufficient proof of priestcraft.

As the good brother who gave the talk linked to in the OP points out, priestcraft is a matter of the heart, which only God knows; that's why a man cannot justly accuse another of priestcraft. A man may certainly justly accuse himself, however.

[dauser]

Alma 1:12
But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that priestcraft has been introduced among this people. And behold, thou art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by the sword; and were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would prove their entire destruction.

The above scripture teaches us their is 2 kinds of priestcraft...voluntary and enforced...for hundreds of years enforced priestcraft was not had among the Nephites...It was had among the Laminites thanks to Amulon... who got it from King Noah.

The Order of Nehor and the order of Amulon teaching unions merge in Alma 24 to kill the parents of the 2000 stripling warriors who were being taught by their mothers.

The city of Amonihah was a city that had embraced public education and was entirely destroyed.

"Enforced by the sword"...interesting that King Noah put Ziff on his educational great and spacious buildings which was a logo of 2 crossed swords suggesting enforcing...

Public education or enforced priestcraft is forced by taxation and like Catholicism was during the dark ages. Like the Anti-Christs Nehor and Amulon we can thank Horace Mann who imported public education from Prussia...where police do education. Horace had to arm the militia with bullets and bayonets in Massachusetts in 1852 to pull the children away from their parents..."Homework is to keep children from fraternizing with their parents" in their own worlds.

Nehor, who gave public education to the Nephites was killed by court order on a hill...we should have done the same to Horace.

[dauser]

Alma 1:12
But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that priestcraft has been introduced among this people. And behold, thou art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by the sword; and were priestcraft to be enforced among this people it would prove their entire destruction.

The above scripture teaches us their is 2 kinds of priestcraft...voluntary and enforced...for hundreds of years enforced priestcraft was not had among the Nephites...It was had among the Laminites thanks to Amulon... who got it from King Noah.

The Order of Nehor and the order of Amulon teaching unions merge in Alma 24 to kill the parents of the 2000 stripling warriors who were being taught by their mothers.

The city of Amonihah was a city that had embraced public education and was entirely destroyed.

"Enforced by the sword"...interesting that King Noah put Ziff on his educational great and spacious buildings which was a logo of 2 crossed swords suggesting enforcing...

Public education or enforced priestcraft is forced by taxation and like Catholicism was during the dark ages. Like the Anti-Christs Nehor and Amulon we can thank Horace Mann who imported public education from Prussia...where police do education. Horace had to arm the militia with bullets and bayonets in Massachusetts in 1852 to pull the children away from their parents..."Homework is to keep children from fraternizing with their parents" in their own worlds.

Nehor, who gave public education to the Nephites was killed by court order on a hill...we should have done the same to Horace.

[log]

I would like to reference the rest of that quote from Brigham Young.

I wish all the elders who go abroad would come home in the same manner. Now and then one does. Some few come home with clean shirts, and others return with their garments spotted.

Do you ask if I mean you? If your own conscience condemns you, I shall, and so will the Lord. Those who have white shirts know it for themselves; and those who have got spotted shirts, will come to me and say, "Is my shirt clean?" To every man who comes to me, saying, "Brother Brigham, do you think I have come home clean and pure?" My answer is, YOU HAVE NOT, but your eye has been like the fool's eye, at the ends of the Earth. You have committed some wickedness, your mind has become darkened, and you have been left to yourself until you have done things which are a disgrace to you.

Let men come home with the Holy Ghost on them; with the spirit of revelation in them; do they want to know of me, or any other person, if they are pure? They know they are pure, as well as the angels know But it is a sure sign that a man is impure, when he doubts in his own mind.... Be sure THAT A MAN WHO DOES NOT KNOW HE IS PURE, IS NOT PURE. (underlining added for emphasis; italics and capitals in the original)

[lemuel]

I would like to reference the rest of that quote from Brigham Young.

I wish all the elders who go abroad would come home in the same manner. Now and then one does. Some few come home with clean shirts, and others return with their garments spotted.

Do you ask if I mean you? If your own conscience condemns you, I shall, and so will the Lord. Those who have white shirts know it for themselves; and those who have got spotted shirts, will come to me and say, "Is my shirt clean?" To every man who comes to me, saying, "Brother Brigham, do you think I have come home clean and pure?" My answer is, YOU HAVE NOT, but your eye has been like the fool's eye, at the ends of the Earth. You have committed some wickedness, your mind has become darkened, and you have been left to yourself until you have done things which are a disgrace to you.

Let men come home with the Holy Ghost on them; with the spirit of revelation in them; do they want to know of me, or any other person, if they are pure? They know they are pure, as well as the angels know But it is a sure sign that a man is impure, when he doubts in his own mind.... Be sure THAT A MAN WHO DOES NOT KNOW HE IS PURE, IS NOT PURE. (underlining added for emphasis; italics and capitals in the original)

I imagine that some of the people who know they are pure, are also not pure.

[log]

I imagine that some of the people who know they are pure, are also not pure.

That turns out not to be the case. As Simon pointed out, to the pure, all things are pure, and to the impure, well, they see everything as being aimed at them.

That's why Joseph said this of Jesus.

Do you think that even Jesus, if He were here, would be without fault in your eyes? His enemies said all manner of evil against Him--they all watched for iniquity in Him. How easy it was for Jesus to call out all the iniquity of the hearts of those whom He was among!

Nephi had that problem with Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael as well.

1 Nephi 16:3
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might walk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

They interpreted Nephi's words and intents according to the wickedness of their own hearts, and, as Lehi pointed out, they had it all wrong.

2 Nephi 1
25 And I exceedingly fear and tremble because of you, lest he shall suffer again; for behold, ye have accused him that he sought power and authority over you; but I know that he hath not sought for power nor authority over you, but he hath sought the glory of God, and your own eternal welfare.

26 And ye have murmured because he hath been plain unto you. Ye say that he hath used sharpness; ye say that he hath been angry with you; but behold, his sharpness was the sharpness of the power of the word of God, which was in him; and that which ye call anger was the truth, according to that which is in God, which he could not restrain, manifesting boldly concerning your iniquities.

27 And it must needs be that the power of God must be with him, even unto his commanding you that ye must obey. But behold, it was not he, but it was the Spirit of the Lord which was in him, which opened his mouth to utterance that he could not shut it.