The Host was good.

[log]

My opinion is in the low minority on this flick, but if you have Netflix, check it out.

[TZONE]

AWFUL! *vomit*

[jdawg1012]

My opinion is in the low minority on this flick, but if you have Netflix, check it out.

I tried to watch it (three times, no less). I was familiar with the storyline before watching it. I found the storyline juvenile, convoluted, difficult to follow, and unrealistic (the human interaction, not the science fantasy itself). I literally could not watch the entire thing, though I made 3 separate attempts, each one failing.

Then again, I can't stand any of Meyer's work thus far, and do my best now to avoid it. She's a terrible writer, and her material (such as vampire/werewolf love stories) is about as worthless and anything I can imagine. Though I virtually never read fiction (I don't like to waste my time on fantasy), I have attempted to look at her work from an objective frame of mind. It's terrible.

Her incessant convolution of what constitutes love and romanticism are probably indicative of the latent sexual issues involved in her culture and upbringing (and later, living early adult life in Utah). Latter-day Saint culture (Utah, or not), is heavily skewed towards sexual non-interaction and frustration. A recent article in KSL highlighted the issue of sexual complications (and non interaction) in this culture. Particularly illuminating were the number of comments on the articles form women indicating they were taught sex was dirty, growing up, or men who said theirs wives were averse. I think this is clearly manifest in Meyers work. It reeks of ridiculousness to me, and in my opinion, the movie was pretty bad.

I'd give it a 4/10. It's not the absolute worst movie I've ever seen, but it's high on that list. My opinion on the subject, however, is worth about what anyone paid for it, which is nothing, in this case.

[jdawg1012]

AWFUL! *vomit*

+1. Extra Brownie points for being concise. It took you only two words to sum up what I said in a hundred or so. Kudos! :ymparty:

[Original_Intent]

I liked it. Not one I will likely own, but I thought it worth the watch.

I don't want to give any spoilers, but I thought, particularly at the end, there were some good LDS themes if you were watching for them.

As far as Twilight goes, I both read the books and watched all the movies. I didn't hate it. And I suspect millions of non-LDS girls were introduced to the idea of "eternal" marriage. I also thought it did a fair job of being anti-abortion, which is pretty rare for anything out of Hollywood these days.

Sure it is a teenage love story, and the acting sucked pretty bad. I still enjoyed the story and really liked how it ended. The final Breaking Dawn movie was actually pretty good. I know that won't be a popular opinion. Sue me.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

My opinion is in the low minority on this flick, but if you have Netflix, check it out.

I liked it. The Lord actually used this movie (of all things) to give me one of the most powerful spiritual experiences and lessons I've ever received. But even without that - I liked it.

[Daughter of Eve]

My opinion is in the low minority on this flick, but if you have Netflix, check it out.

I liked it. The Lord actually used this movie (of all things) to give me one of the most powerful spiritual experiences and lessons I've ever received. But even without that - I liked it.

Same here, I learned some really amazing things and a lot of interesting concepts were introduced. I'd recommend it

[truth]

Ok, I watched. I cannot say I liked it, though I liked the concept. The dialogue is some of the corniest I've ever heard and the again and again kissing scenes were absolute adolescent fantasy, but there was a definite gospel message, particularly at the end, that made it worthwhile, resonating even.

[TZONE]

Should be moved to the General Discussion.

[log]

Should be moved to the General Discussion.

Only if you haven't seen the movie or understood its relation to the gospel.

[jdawg1012]

Ok, I watched. I cannot say I liked it, though I liked the concept. The dialogue is some of the corniest I've ever heard and the again and again kissing scenes were absolute adolescent fantasy, but there was a definite gospel message, particularly at the end, that made it worthwhile, resonating even.

I thought the first ten minutes and the last ten minutes were ok. The rest was, meh.

But Jules and DoE brought up something really important. ALL things denote there is a God [and testify of Christ]. All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could. I have heard people say that such and such an external situation will drive the Spirit away. I'm not necessarily convinced. God sees universal sin as all things are present before His face. But He still grows endlessly in light and glory. So, while I thoroughly disliked the movie (though I thought that the concept was fair enough--the execution and love trapezoid were the most awful), I don't preclude the idea that someone else could have watched it and received inspiration at the same time.

So while the movie (at least execution, and some of the storyline) itself was terrible, beneath the convolution, I can see how someone may have liked a subtle, underlying message.

[Original_Intent]

Ok, I watched. I cannot say I liked it, though I liked the concept. The dialogue is some of the corniest I've ever heard and the again and again kissing scenes were absolute adolescent fantasy, but there was a definite gospel message, particularly at the end, that made it worthwhile, resonating even.

I thought the first ten minutes and the last ten minutes were ok. The rest was, meh.

But Jules and DoE brought up something really important. ALL things denote there is a God [and testify of Christ]. All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could. I have heard people say that such and such an external situation will drive the Spirit away. I'm not necessarily convinced. God sees universal sin as all things are present before His face. But He still grows endlessly in light and glory. So, while I thoroughly disliked the movie (though I thought that the concept was fair enough--the execution and love trapezoid were the most awful), I don't preclude the idea that someone else could have watched it and received inspiration at the same time.

So while the movie (at least execution, and some of the storyline) itself was terrible, beneath the convolution, I can see how someone may have liked a subtle, underlying message.

Yeah that is how I see it and Twilight also falls in that category. The acting sucked, the love triangle was ridiculous. But there was good to be had, and I did think the final movie was "decent". It looked like it had a budget and they managed to CGI some emotion into the protagonist.

[jdawg1012]

Yeah that is how I see it and Twilight also falls in that category. The acting sucked, the love triangle was ridiculous. But there was good to be had, and I did think the final movie was "decent". It looked like it had a budget and they managed to CGI some emotion into the protagonist.

LOL, that's hilarious. I agree. I guess for me, it falls under "good, better, best." I have found that if I have to suspend my brain to enjoy something, I don't find it enjoyable. There's many classes of comedy for that same reason, for example. I find great comedic relief in irony, but I have found others scratching their heads while I laugh hysterically, and me shaking my head while they laugh hysterically at potty humor (for example).

Ultimately none of her works are worthwhile for me (nor do I, personally, believe they are "best" for anyone), but I do definitely think they can rank as "better" compared to a lot of other media. If that makes any sense.

[Cookies]

But Jules and DoE brought up something really important. ALL things denote there is a God [and testify of Christ]. All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could. I have heard people say that such and such an external situation will drive the Spirit away. I'm not necessarily convinced. God sees universal sin as all things are present before His face. But He still grows endlessly in light and glory. So, while I thoroughly disliked the movie (though I thought that the concept was fair enough--the execution and love trapezoid were the most awful), I don't preclude the idea that someone else could have watched it and received inspiration at the same time.

So while the movie (at least execution, and some of the storyline) itself was terrible, beneath the convolution, I can see how someone may have liked a subtle, underlying message.

OHHH! *-:) Never thought of it that way...

[jdawg1012]

But Jules and DoE brought up something really important. ALL things denote there is a God [and testify of Christ]. All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could. I have heard people say that such and such an external situation will drive the Spirit away. I'm not necessarily convinced. God sees universal sin as all things are present before His face. But He still grows endlessly in light and glory. So, while I thoroughly disliked the movie (though I thought that the concept was fair enough--the execution and love trapezoid were the most awful), I don't preclude the idea that someone else could have watched it and received inspiration at the same time.

So while the movie (at least execution, and some of the storyline) itself was terrible, beneath the convolution, I can see how someone may have liked a subtle, underlying message.

OHHH! *-:) Never thought of it that way...

Well, then I'm glad to have shared something. In truth, I didn't understand it all in one go. So, while it's fresh in your mind, I'll post the rest of that scripture right away, in case the Spirit can add to it. From Father Lehi:

2 Nephi 2:

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(A direct link in case you want it).

[truth]

Yeah that is how I see it and Twilight also falls in that category. The acting sucked, the love triangle was ridiculous. But there was good to be had, and I did think the final movie was "decent". It looked like it had a budget and they managed to CGI some emotion into the protagonist.

LOL, that's hilarious. I agree. I guess for me, it falls under "good, better, best." I have found that if I have to suspend my brain to enjoy something, I don't find it enjoyable. There's many classes of comedy for that same reason, for example. I find great comedic relief in irony, but I have found others scratching their heads while I laugh hysterically, and me shaking my head while they laugh hysterically at potty humor (for example).

Ultimately none of her works are worthwhile for me (nor do I, personally, believe they are "best" for anyone), but I do definitely think they can rank as "better" compared to a lot of other media. If that makes any sense.

That's the thing though. How can you know the "good" from the "better" from the "best" beforehand. For instance, when I watched the movie Gravity (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1454468/), I enjoyed the special effects and the completely unrealistic plotline, but the thing that made the movie worth watching came in the last maybe 30 seconds, when the main character stands up and says, "Thank you." It took a whole movie and all of space to teach one woman to pray, but I had to watch the whole movie in order to appreciate that. And as you said:

All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could.

So, we can find the good in just about any situation. That said, I'm not suggesting that any of us spend our days Youtubing or sifting through any number of films or other media to find the gold nuggets. I mean, there has to be some basis of decision and some point where you say, "Turn it off." The spirit seems the only reliable source, and yet, have you, or anyone reading, ever been caught off guard by a one-liner from a movie that drastically changed your way of thinking? I sure have. And I didn't feel particularly Spirit led (which doesn't mean say that I wasn't).

[Cookies]

Well, then I'm glad to have shared something. In truth, I didn't understand it all in one go. So, while it's fresh in your mind, I'll post the rest of that scripture right away, in case the Spirit can add to it. From Father Lehi:

2 Nephi 2:

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(A direct link in case you want it).

I have seriously read and quoted that scripture SO many times and never quite understood the COMPOUND IN ONE aspect of it... seems so obvious now. #-o
I was thinking that evil has to exist in order for good to exist, but when thought of as INHERENT evil...like within ourselves, that brings on a whole new level of understanding.

[jdawg1012]

That's the thing though. How can you know the "good" from the "better" from the "best" beforehand. For instance, when I watched the movie Gravity (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1454468/), I enjoyed the special effects and the completely unrealistic plotline, but the thing that made the movie worth watching came in the last maybe 30 seconds, when the main character stands up and says, "Thank you." It took a whole movie and all of space to teach one woman to pray, but I had to watch the whole movie in order to appreciate that. And as you said:

All things work together for the righteous. I have stated this for some many years, because there is "OPPOSITION IN" (not "opposition to") all things. Which means there's inherent good and bad. So while I personally didn't like it, or find value in it, it doesn't mean that no one else could.

So, we can find the good in just about any situation. That said, I'm not suggesting that any of us spend our days Youtubing or sifting through any number of films or other media to find the gold nuggets. I mean, there has to be some basis of decision and some point where you say, "Turn it off." The spirit seems the only reliable source, and yet, have you, or anyone reading, ever been caught off guard by a one-liner from a movie that drastically changed your way of thinking? I sure have. And I didn't feel particularly Spirit led (which doesn't mean say that I wasn't).

Oh, I agree with you. I mentioned, I tried to watch "The Host" three times, I didn't find it worthy of anymore time though.

This is a broad generalization and a bit of an oversimplification, but I have found that there's a different Spirit around "better" and "best." I've waded through a lot of garbage in my life, in school, for work, etc. But part of "living in the world, but not of the world" is that sometimes we wade through the garbage and find diamonds, but there's no reason to focus on the garbage when looking for diamonds. If that makes sense. Like, sure I may find a diamond in the garbage, or a diamond on the street, or a diamond on a beach, but if I want diamonds, the best place to go is a diamond mine (or a jewelry store, lol). Likewise, I find that I don't find much worthwhile in fiction and fantasy, but rather in the scriptures, in history, in reality and in doing things. That's not always possible, in every circumstance, but it's what I try and make the focus of my life. Parables and allegories have value though, that I don't want to dismiss. But several hours of fantasy to have a few moments of truth, is not, to me, the best use of my own personal time that God has allotted me.

I am known for never being surprised by things, even epiphanies that are common among most people. (I'm almost never surprised, literally, but every once in a great while, something does surprise me, or rather result in something I didn't expect, but not often). I am pretty sensitive to the Spirit, and try to keep Him/It as my companion. I have found that "All roads lead to Rome," another common adage of mine (pretty much the same as all things working together for our good). So, I think that if we're going though life's paths, if our heart is set on something, we tend to find it. If we're looking in the right place, I think it's not surprising that we find what we're looking for there. But I've also found when we look in the right place (and I think it's easy to get a sense of that) for the things we want, we're more successful. Thus, I think everyone can find good in frivolous and tangential things, but that over time and experience, we learn not to spend our labor for things that don't satisfy. But in that, I still believe in milk and meat. And I still believe the righteous can find the good that is in anything.

Ironically, when Satan quoted scripture to the Lord to tempt Him, he was also giving messages through those same scriptures that would reinforce the Savior's resolve. Namely that God (the Father) would provide for and protect Him. As always, the good and the bad together. Where Satan saw it as a tool for evil (and temptation), I see it as an inadvertent strengthening of testimony. So maybe it's further proof that even in the worst of times, all things work for our good, if that's what we seek.

[jdawg1012]

I have seriously read and quoted that scripture SO many times and never quite understood the COMPOUND IN ONE aspect of it... seems so obvious now. #-o
I was thinking that evil has to exist in order for good to exist, but when thought of as INHERENT evil...like within ourselves, that brings on a whole new level of understanding.

Well, I'm glad that i was able to share something. I think it's important when understanding Paul and Nephi's wrestles with the flesh (and our own for that matter). I also think it's important to understand in not being so hard on ourselves and on others. God truly is merciful. I dare say more than any of us can comprehend.

[truth]

I've waded through a lot of garbage in my life, in school, for work, etc. But part of "living in the world, but not of the world" is that sometimes we wade through the garbage and find diamonds, but there's no reason to focus on the garbage when looking for diamonds. If that makes sense. Like, sure I may find a diamond in the garbage, or a diamond on the street, or a diamond on a beach, but if I want diamonds, the best place to go is a diamond mine (or a jewelry store, lol).

I appreciate your response, and you make it sound so obvious. Yet, we have to be careful. (And by "we," I mean I have to be careful):

Luke 2:7

And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

And I think of "an obscure farm boy" even Joseph Smith.

I getting way off topic, so I apologize, but I've had too many experiences where the seeming "garbage" was passed over--and of course I'm not talking about the movies.

I am known for never being surprised by things, even epiphanies that are common among most people. (I'm almost never surprised, literally, but every once in a great while, something does surprise me, or rather result in something I didn't expect, but not often).

So name something that has surprised you. Just one. (Mostly because I'm curious.)

Thus, I think everyone can find good in frivolous and tangential things, but that over time and experience, we learn not to spend our labor for things that don't satisfy.

And so little else satisfies once the Spirit begins to speak to you.

*edited to fix ridiculous format from writing in a hurry.

[truth]

And sorry I did such a poor job with marking your quotes. :ymblushing:

[karend77]

Hmm.... I really liked the book but never got around to the movie. I read Meyer's vampire series and some books were better than others...but felt she could have condensed the story in about two fewer books. The Host is her best book to date.

Since I trust Original Intent and Jules's judgement, this has perked my interest in watching the movie now.

[jdawg1012]

I've waded through a lot of garbage in my life, in school, for work, etc. But part of "living in the world, but not of the world" is that sometimes we wade through the garbage and find diamonds, but there's no reason to focus on the garbage when looking for diamonds. If that makes sense. Like, sure I may find a diamond in the garbage, or a diamond on the street, or a diamond on a beach, but if I want diamonds, the best place to go is a diamond mine (or a jewelry store, lol).

I appreciate your response, and you make it sound so obvious. Yet, we have to be careful. (And by "we," I mean I have to be careful):

Luke 2:7

And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

And I think of "an obscure farm boy" even Joseph Smith.

I getting way off topic, so I apologize, but I've had too many experiences where the seeming "garbage" was passed over--and of course I'm not talking about the movies.

I am known for never being surprised by things, even epiphanies that are common among most people. (I'm almost never surprised, literally, but every once in a great while, something does surprise me, or rather result in something I didn't expect, but not often).

So name something that has surprised you. Just one. (Mostly because I'm curious.)

Thus, I think everyone can find good in frivolous and tangential things, but that over time and experience, we learn not to spend our labor for things that don't satisfy.

And so little else satisfies once the Spirit begins to speak to you.

*edited to fix ridiculous format from writing in a hurry.

I was replying to you earlier, but was on the run. But to be clear, I agree with you. In addition to Luke's narrative, and Joseph Smith, I can probably think of a thousand other examples of "weak things" the Lord uses for good. (Literally anything could make the point). My point wasn't that good can't be found everywhere, or that one should proverbially "judge a book by its cover," my point was that not all things are of equal value. And, I suppose, that those things that are of lesser value to me, I don't focus on. But I agree that good can be found everywhere, often in non-worldly things. I just try and find "best" when I can. I have learned some profound things from media, as someone once mentioned upthread about one-liners from movies. But I have found that convoluted stories haven't been best for me. (I don't like zen koans either, lol). Nephi liked plain speech too, but Isaiah loved symbolism (granted Isaiah was more plain to people who reckoned as Jews, and maybe Stephanie Meyer's work's are more plain to teenage girls, and .... some women, seeing how I'll never be either, I guess I don't know and may never, lol). To me Isaiah is clear, but maybe to someone else it's not. But I'm not a relativist, I think some things are clearly of more value than others. And while the symbolism behind some elements of "The Host," for example, might be lovely, I found that
the work as a whole was lacking, for me. As a work of art, everyone will always have a differing opinion, as art is NOT quantifiable. But again, I'm not a relativist, so I will always believe that even among art, some is better than others. And I have a very lenient opinion on what constitutes "art." (But, that is a very philosophical discussion)

And so little else satisfies once the Spirit begins to speak to you.

Agreed. And beautifully put.

As far as the last time I was surprised...about 6 months ago, shortly after returning home from an extended period elsewhere, I was thinking about my sister-in-law saying how I never get surprised. I was thinking, "Well it's pretty true" and trying to think of the last time something surprised me. It had been quite a while. Just then the seat I was sitting on broke beneath me. As I am not heavyset (I'm within a few pounds of "ideal" weight), and that it came at exactly that moment, it was both surprising and ironic. I laughed for quite a while, and smiled, taking it to be a sign, that one should "never say never."

As a general rule of thumb, I am "surprised" (pleasantly or otherwise), about twice a year (and usually what surprises me is trivial to everyone else). Every so often someone will do something so out of character that it is unexpected, and the surprise almost always deals with a person doing something out of line with their "normal" behavior (I tend not to commit the "fundamental attribution error" as much as most people). I wait a long time to form my opinions of people, for example.

I don't know if it's because I have few expectations, or if it's because I pay a lot of attention to trends and surroundings (my sister-in-law's theory), or because of a particular spiritual trait (what I believe) but one fact remains: it's an extraordinarily rare occurrence. As a young adult, I woke up one day, and while praying my morning prayer, I had the feeling, "I will get into a serious car accident today." I went through the entire day and in the evening, just before going home, a car ran through a red light, and totaled my car, with me sitting at the intersection. Completely out of my control, so not self-fulfilling. No shock, no surprise, not even a "what a coincidence." My whole life has been like that. One of my roommates in college often called me "The Magic 8-ball." My best friend laughs when people argue with me, he thinks the (almost always) inevitable "You were right," is funny. Of course, I know that I'm wrong about all kinds of things (well, it's less and less frequent), but I generally never argue about something I'm unsure of (I try to only have rational arguments with others, and not illogical squabbles, that are colloquially called "arguments"), and keep my mouth shut unless I have a compelling reason for my belief. And my bar for "compelling" is pretty high for almost everything.

Anyway, I don't mean to get off on a big tangent. I just thought I'd explain, to satisfy your curiosity.

[Original_Intent]

Speaking of finding diamonds in the "trash" a few R-rated movies...

"The Matrix" is awesome, no nudity, some pretty minor language, and quite a lot of gun violence. I wouldn't recommend either of the sequels, but the original is a well done movie and spoke pretty powerfully to me.

"They Live" - definitely a B movie, but not too subtle about the message and it is a good one. Some very corny one-liners, definitely B movie acting. Rating due to quite a bit of gun violence, some language, and the last 3 seconds of the movie is a gratuitous topless scene that added nothing to the movie. Very worth watching in my opinion. If you start to watch it and give up on it before he puts on the sunglasses....your loss.

"Braveheart" - awesome.

"Gladiator" - pretty good.

"Constantine" - really enjoyed this and not sure what pushed it from PG-13 to R. It's fairly intense and deals with demons and Satan, but there was no nudity, no language, and the violence was on par with "Van Helsing". If you liked Van Helsing, you'd probably like it.

Sorry to promote R-rated shows. I have definitely seen more R-movies that were pretty much trash, but these have been the few diamonds I have found in the trash heap so to speak,