An obelisk?

[mouse]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smi ... e_Memorial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who's idea was it to erect a giant obelisk for the Joseph smith birth place memorial. I get really bothered when I discover how much illuminati/masonic symbolism overlap church architecture and symbolism. They could have built anything, WHY, WHY, WHY? an obelisk!

[embryopocket]

Because obelisks are cool?

[stillwater]

I think a standing stone column with a seer stone at the top is an appropriate symbol for Joseph.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benben" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.backyardprofessor.com/files/ ... -light.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TheLion]

Edit: Poof

[durangout]

I think it was done mostly just b/c they knew it would annoy you. :ymhug:

[SpeedRacer]

You all should go visit the site. Holy was the day when that man came into the world. Not as holy as Christ, but truly Gods will in the latter-day was initated through Joseph. You can feel that if you stop and ponder there, even if you are close to the large stone object. ;)

[boo]

"Agreed. If we are the Church of Jesus Christ why is there so much Masonic/Illuminati symbolism especially on/in Temples. This is actually the main reason why I have zero interest in ever getting a temple recommend. The temples are corrupted by having this imagery ."
As I assume you know there are many who believe that the temple symbolism predates both the Masons and the Illuminati etc. Nibley argued that position, however much more persuasive in my view are the works of Mircea Eliade who was at the Univ of Chicago for many years. His books "The Myth of the Eternal Return " and" Rites and Initiations" explore in great depth the religious rites and symbolism of the most primitive groups on earth including early work on the bushmen of Africa and remote tribes in New Guinea . The correspondence between such groups rites,cosmology and symbols with the LDS temple rites is often much closer than that of the Masons etc. I think you would be amazed at the similarity . On a personal note I have spent decades looking at this issue including reviewing the bulk of the literature on Masonic rites and am personally convinced that the temple taps into a much more authoritative source than the Masons. Their work is certainly derivative rather than original. I don't think who has carefully looked at this should be troubled one whit.

[TheLion]

Edit: Poof

[boo]

Thanks for your thoughts. I do not have time because of work constraints to fully respond now but in brief your view of the temple and its purposes and mine differ. The temple rites and ordinances predate historical Christianity. While they are intended to bring us to Christ ancient preChristian rites and ordinances were too. Many of the most powerful aspects of the temple are fundamentally taken directly from the Old Testament - Exodus 40:12. The temple isn't about restoring the church Christ organized when he was here in mortality it is about endowing us with the power that Adam had to enter into the Saviors presence.The whole series of oaths and covenants and signs and tokens date from the very foundation of the world. If I understand your view it is that because some symbols have been misappropriated by other groups we should no longer use them. And if we use any of them the whole edifice is polluted. I think that view permits the adversary to exercise unwarranted control over us and the way God chooses to communicate with his children. The all seeing eye , ritual handshakes, clothing regalia, etc can still speak powerfully to us even if we also recognize others may misuse them. The fact that they were used by God to speak to Adam , Isaiah and John the Baptist shows how powerful they are. You presumably don't refuse to sing the national anthem or honor the flag simply because American Nazis or the KKK did also. Christ didn't come to destroy what had been before but to fulfill it . Likewise temples can appropriately use symbols in existence before the birth of the Savior.My own view is we must throw off our unbelief and skepticism and pride and become as little children and accept all things the God offers us even if they may seem initially objectionable. Only in that way can we be saved. Don't reject that which God has made clean Acts 11:9

[TheLion]

Edit: Poof

[boo]

Thanks for sharing your view. We can certainly agree to disagree.

[durangout]

(yawn) just another lame attempt to find fault with The Church. Generally speaking, If someone wants to find an excuse to justify misplaced enmity, they can. Don't believe me? Go ask Cain, Saul, et al.

:ymhug:

[durangout]

To me there are two churches in LDS, I like one and do not like the other.

Because I am a masochist, I just gotta ask: What are those 2 churches? B-(

[log]

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. "

"Leviticus 26:1
“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God."

Wait - do the biblical temples of the Jews pass this test?

[Hyrcanus]

...

"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. "

Eye of Ra. (The Sun) is a likeness of something that is in heaven above. Image carved into the temple. Same as carving stars into the side of the temple(s). God also said not to bow or worship them, so often people join the two together as inseparable. What I am saying is while there is truth to them being joined they are also separate.

"Leviticus 26:1
“You shall not make idols for yourselves or erect an image or pillar, and you shall not set up a figured stone in your land to bow down to it, for I am the Lord your God."

Obelisk for JS is erecting a pillar. To extend on the scripture quote, "and you shall not set up a figured stone...to bow down to it" This is an additional command not a clarification of the "erect an image or pillar"

...

The very books you're citing to establish the rule later contradict your interpretation when they lay out the instructions for the tabernacle. The Holy of Holies contained the Ark of the Covenant atop which sat the Mercy Seat which was a carved figure of two angels (cheribum) in pure gold.

Setting that aside for a moment, is it possible the symbolism we use actually predates Masonry & the Illuminati and was actually co-opted by them? If so, perhaps Joseph was just restoring the symbolism to it's true purpose. I'm not arguing that as the simplest or most likely explanation, just asking whether it is possible.

[Jeremy]

(yawn) just another lame attempt to find fault with The Church. Generally speaking, If someone wants to find an excuse to justify misplaced enmity, they can. Don't believe me? Go ask Cain, Saul, et al.

:ymhug:

I am so glad you added the hug at the end of that. Without it, it might read like you were being quite insensitive and completely lacking charity. You see, there are individuals who have honest questions, honest concerns, honest feelings of betrayal, honest feelings of sorrow. Unfortunately many of these people are also honestly seeking truth which can be difficult to find. They want to know. They want to believe. They want conflicts to be resolved. Now of course not all individuals are sincere...but surely not every "attempt to find fault with The Church" is "lame". Sometimes those faults are not dug up, rather they are fruits falling from the branches of a tree whose seed was planted long ago.


Generally speaking, if someone wants to find an excuse to justify their arrogance and pride, they can with a response lacking any charity or humility and sometimes mislabeling questions as lame, misplaced enmity. But a hug makes that all better. :ymhug:

[mouse]

(yawn) just another lame attempt to find fault with The Church. Generally speaking, If someone wants to find an excuse to justify misplaced enmity, they can. Don't believe me? Go ask Cain, Saul, et al.

:ymhug:

A typical diatribe I hear frequently by "spiritually soft" people who think to question anything regarding the church is apostasy at best, and apostasy at worst. "Shut up and Obey" seems to be the Magnum Opus of their religious beliefs. Attempting to find fault in the church is the farthest objective from my mind. I see many things within the church that I find "concerning" and am grateful for a forum such as this to ask a question (or as you called it, enmity) and to receive many thoughtful responses in return.

[TheLion]

Edit: Poof

[Simon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smi ... e_Memorial

Who's idea was it to erect a giant obelisk for the Joseph smith birth place memorial. I get really bothered when I discover how much illuminati/masonic symbolism overlap church architecture and symbolism. They could have built anything, WHY, WHY, WHY? an obelisk!

Agreed. If we are the Church of Jesus Christ why is there so much Masonic/Illuminati symolism especially on/in Temples. This is actually the main reason why I have zero interest in ever getting a temple recommend. The temples are corrupted by having this imagery on and in them, let alone some of the stuff that takes place in them is spot on for masonic stuff. Now I realize for temple "worthy" people they will scoff at this, but it doesn't change the fact one iota. To me there are two churches in LDS, I like one and do not like the other. The other (or latter in this case) could be a major issue for people come that day. This is one area where the antis do have it right, I largely disagree with them on the rest (obviously, since I was baptized LDS after doing my research).

If interested, I compiled a little about Joseph and the Freemasons here

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31429" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[oneClimbs]

So freemasons invented Egyptian architecture? And Egyptians invented the principles they based their architecture on? Seems to me that I read somewhere in Abraham that the Egyptians were keen on imitating things...