LDS Freedom Forum

With Comet ISON having come and now leaving us it seems I have a few items to consider. Some here seem to be on a constant promotion of these bodies, real and imaginary, sweeping in from space to destroy the earth and life on it. As yet not one single one of these events has ever occurred. Now it is a fact that the earth has in the past been struck by objects from space, such recently happened in Russia. It is also a fact that earth will, in the future be so struck.

What is not a fact however is that objects of great mass, the size of our moon and bigger or dwarf stars holding massive mass and there for gravity will ever be able to sneak up on us unnoticed even if there were attempts to hid the fact for the public. The reason is the earth has an early warning system for this kind of thing. It is called the tides. Tides are very very sensitive to objects of mass changing their predicted performance. Tides are very carefully measured and predicted down to a few cm. Any object of any significant mass, even a mass much smaller than our moon is going to generate tides that are not in keeping with the established pattern. Patterns know in most places for 100s of years.

So the next time someone here says that Planet X is inbound and within week or months of destroying the earth go out and look at the tides, have they changed from their predicted course and times? No. then you know that no object of the mass that we are talking about has come into our solar system. It's just another chicken little.

gkearney wrote:With Comet ISON having come and now leaving us it seems I have a few items to consider. Some here seem to be on a constant promotion of these bodies, real and imaginary, sweeping in from space to destroy the earth and life on it. As yet not one single one of these events has ever occurred. Now it is a fact that the earth has in the past been struck by objects from space, such recently happened in Russia. It is also a fact that earth will, in the future be so struck.

What is not a fact however is that objects of great mass, the size of our moon and bigger or dwarf stars holding massive mass and there for gravity will ever be able to sneak up on us unnoticed even if there were attempts to hid the fact for the public. The reason is the earth has an early warning system for this kind of thing. It is called the tides. Tides are very very sensitive to objects of mass changing their predicted performance. Tides are very carefully measured and predicted down to a few cm. Any object of any significant mass, even a mass much smaller than our moon is going to generate tides that are not in keeping with the established pattern. Patterns know in most places for 100s of years.

So the next time someone here says that Planet X is inbound and within week or months of destroying the earth go out and look at the tides, have they changed from their predicted course and times? No. then you know that no object of the mass that we are talking about has come into our solar system. It's just another chicken little.

Said like someone who actually has ACCESS to tides, unlike most of us inlanders. :p

But thanks for adding a voice of reason.

I have a plan! When Nibiru shows up I'm going to tie some strong fishing line to my feet, so when gravity from Nibiru effects our mother planet, I'm going to float up and say--- Hi!

bobhenstra wrote:I have a plan! When Nibiru shows up I'm going to tie some strong fishing line to my feet, so when gravity from Nibiru effects our mother planet, I'm going to float up and say--- Hi!

If the gravity is strong enough to lift you up, it'll lift up water as well. Better bring a snorkel. ;)

gkearney wrote:With Comet ISON having come and now leaving us it seems I have a few items to consider. Some here seem to be on a constant promotion of these bodies, real and imaginary, sweeping in from space to destroy the earth and life on it. As yet not one single one of these events has ever occurred. Now it is a fact that the earth has in the past been struck by objects from space, such recently happened in Russia. It is also a fact that earth will, in the future be so struck.

What is not a fact however is that objects of great mass, the size of our moon and bigger or dwarf stars holding massive mass and there for gravity will ever be able to sneak up on us unnoticed even if there were attempts to hid the fact for the public. The reason is the earth has an early warning system for this kind of thing. It is called the tides. Tides are very very sensitive to objects of mass changing their predicted performance. Tides are very carefully measured and predicted down to a few cm. Any object of any significant mass, even a mass much smaller than our moon is going to generate tides that are not in keeping with the established pattern. Patterns know in most places for 100s of years.

So the next time someone here says that Planet X is inbound and within week or months of destroying the earth go out and look at the tides, have they changed from their predicted course and times? No. then you know that no object of the mass that we are talking about has come into our solar system. It's just another chicken little.

Amen! :ymapplause: Not only that, a massive planet or brown dwarf entering our solar system or approaching it from the southern ecliptic would cause perturbations (disruptions in orbit) with the outer planets like Uranus and Neptune and it would become obvious to astronomers all over the world and it would be impossible to keep the information hidden from the public because even amateur astronomers would notice it and begin to wonder what is going on with suspicions that an inbound celestial object was responsible. Furthermore, if this hypothesized Planet X was on a 3,600 year journey around the sun and entered our solar system inbound, many of the outer planets would have already been thrown out of their regular orbits and would have very strange revolutions around the sun instead of almost perfect circles. Joseph Smith's prophecy about a planet or comet that would be the last grand sign of Christ's return in the last days will undoubtedly be an object that the Lord himself causes to enter our solar system.

I like when people post reasonable things. Thanks for this thread.

The op does not take into account the laws by which gravity operates. How large does the sun appear in our sky? Answer, roughly, the same size as the moon. Yet the effect of the Sun upon the tides is extremely small. The sun has 6,000,000. times more mass than the moon. Gravity decreases at an inverse square with distance from an object. That is why an object like the moon, with six million times less mass, has thousands of times more effect on the tides than does the sun. In order for a large mass object, coming from outer space, to have any effect on the tides, it would have to be visible to the naked eye.

Sure an object cannot be a few days away from us, without affecting tides but months, years, yes. The OP is false.

Newton's law of universal gravitation follows an inverse-square law, as do the effects of electric, magnetic, light, sound, and radiation phenomena.

Intensity X 1
-----------
distance 2 (distance squared)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What it means is that gravity decreases, exponentialy, with distance or in other words gravity is extremley weak at distances further than our moon and decrease to near zero at distances greater than the sun. An object, with one thousand times the mass of the sun would appear large in the sky at one thousand times the distance, yet have close to zero gravitional effect.

Oh ye of little faith.... haven't you read the scriptures... these things will happen "before" the Lord comes:

Before the 6th Seal ends (the one we are in now... these last days) there will be "a great earthquake" ... What do you think is going to cause this? ... This "great earthquake" is going to cause the "every mountain and island" to move out of its place... and along with it Meteorite's will pelt the earth... "and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth." It says "every" man, women and child will want to hide in "dens" and caves to try to escape these meteorite storms... not showers but storms. Are we going to be warned, are we going to see something in the heavens that will cause this disaster that we have not seen before?

Later when the 7th seal opens there will be another "earthquake" and a "great star" will fall...

A "great star" from heaven will fall to the earth and cause massive destruction! Before the Lord comes!

And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

(New Testament | Revelation 8:10 - 11)

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Apollyon in Greek means "Destruction from the stars).

(New Testament | Revelation 9:11)

What happened in Russia is nothing compared to the intensity of what is coming. What do you think is causing this increase in meteorite showers and storms? What is pushing these things into the earths atmosphere? Several brilliant astromers have reported what will cause these things to happen. It has happened in the past and it will happen again. I really don't care what name these comets, planets, astroids are called (PlanetX, Nibiur, the Destroyer, Hercolubus, the frightener)... What goes around comes around if the mass is big enough to handle perihelion.

Keep your minds open to what the past has taught us... a closed mind can't be taught!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQf8jTR ... qElbAlMqRw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lets put this another way. Right now the sun has so little effect on the tides that it is hard to tell it from the effects of a thunderstorm, thousands of miles away or from the merchant fleet adding one hundred new oil tankers to the oceans. Yet the sun is clearly visible to the naked eye. If the sun moved away from us twice as far as it is now, the sun would still be extremely easy to see with the naked eye, but the gravitional force upon the earth would have decreased by thousands of times. It would have the same effect on the tides as throwing a large rock into the ocean.

Your naked eye will see the object much sooner than you will be able to notice a change in tides.

Thomas wrote:Lets put this another way. Right now the sun has so little effect on the tides that it is hard to tell it from the effects of a thunderstorm, thousands of miles away or from the merchant fleet adding one hundred new oil tankers to the oceans. Yet the sun is clearly visible to the naked eye. If the sun moved away from us twice as far as it is now, the sun would still be extremely easy to see with the naked eye, but the gravitional force upon the earth would have decreased by thousands of times. It would have the same effect on the tides as throwing a large rock into the ocean.

Your naked eye will see the object much sooner than you will be able to notice a change in tides.

Thomas, just so you are aware, the sun's gravitational influence actually reaches as far out as Pluto and beyond, albeit, an extremely small influence, otherwise, Pluto would not be orbiting the sun.

Thomas is describing the tidal effect of the sun, not it's general gravitational influence. He seems very aware of how the sun's gravity works.

stillwater wrote:

Thomas wrote:...gravity is extremely weak at distances further than our moon and decreases to near zero at distances greater than the sun.

Thomas is describing the tidal effect of the sun, not it's general gravitational influence. He seems very aware of how the sun's gravity works.

The underlined part is not true - the gravitational influence never goes to zero... it's just hardly noticeable and decreases more and more with distance.

Valiance wrote:

stillwater wrote:

Thomas wrote:...gravity is extremely weak at distances further than our moon and decreases to near zero at distances greater than the sun.

Thomas is describing the tidal effect of the sun, not it's general gravitational influence. He seems very aware of how the sun's gravity works.

The underlined part is not true - the gravitational influence never goes to zero... it's just hardly noticeable and decreases more and more with distance.

hardly noticeable = "near zero"
It's only untrue when you misquote him.

Valiance wrote:Thomas, just so you are aware, the sun's gravitational influence actually reaches as far out as Pluto and beyond, albeit, an extremely small influence, otherwise, Pluto would not be orbiting the sun.

Therorecticaly, the gravitational influence of the sun extends into infinty , but that does not mean you can detect it's influence past a certain point. Kearny will argue that the outer planets will effect the tides, and while that is true, the effect is so small that making a accurate observation, in an eviroment with so many other influences, such as storm surge, ocean traffic, ice melt, planet rotation etc. is impossible. The effect of the outer planets can be calculated but so can the weight of a hydrogen atom. That doesn't mean you can observe them easily.

Gravity is the weakest, by far, of the atomic forces. Using gravity as a measuring stick is your weakest tool. Your naked eye can detect the much stronger electromagnetic energy, in the form of reflected light, far easier because that force is so much stronger.

SkyBird wrote:Oh ye of little faith.... haven't you read the scriptures... these things will happen "before" the Lord comes:

Before the 6th Seal ends (the one we are in now... these last days) there will be "a great earthquake" ... What do you think is going to cause this? ... This "great earthquake" is going to cause the "every mountain and island" to move out of its place... and along with it Meteorite's will pelt the earth... "and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth." It says "every" man, women and child will want to hide in "dens" and caves to try to escape these meteorite storms... not showers but storms. Are we going to be warned, are we going to see something in the heavens that will cause this disaster that we have not seen before?

Later when the 7th seal opens there will be another "earthquake" and a "great star" will fall...

A "great star" from heaven will fall to the earth and cause massive destruction! Before the Lord comes!

And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

(New Testament | Revelation 8:10 - 11)

And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Apollyon in Greek means "Destruction from the stars).

(New Testament | Revelation 9:11)

What happened in Russia is nothing compared to the intensity of what is coming. What do you think is causing this increase in meteorite showers and storms? What is pushing these things into the earths atmosphere? Several brilliant astromers have reported what will cause these things to happen. It has happened in the past and it will happen again. I really don't care what name these comets, planets, astroids are called (PlanetX, Nibiur, the Destroyer, Hercolubus, the frightener)... What goes around comes around if the mass is big enough to handle perihelion.

Keep your minds open to what the past has taught us... a closed mind can't be taught!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQf8jTR ... qElbAlMqRw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bird, I have great faith in the scripture, perhaps not as much faith in your interpretation of the scripture!

Bob

Hey Bob... I agree with your Joseph Smith quote 100%. What is your interpretation of it?

SkyBird

By the way... did you watch this Video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQf8jTR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... qElbAlMqRw

TheLion wrote:

bobhenstra wrote:I have a plan! When Nibiru shows up I'm going to tie some strong fishing line to my feet, so when gravity from Nibiru effects our mother planet, I'm going to float up and say--- Hi!

If the gravity is strong enough to lift you up, it'll lift up water as well. Better bring a snorkel. ;)

I can swim------- :ymtongue:

Bird your video isn't working, perhaps a sign?

Hmm, just discovered that Ceres, a minor planet presently orbiting in the asteroid belt will be the next great awakening for the children of man--- It will leave orbit, pass Mars, slowly catch and collide with the earth----in 2015--NASA's KEEPING IT A SECRET, the world must not discover this truth, there will be uncontrollable panic--

Interesting PREMISE!, don't you think?? @-)

Bob

bobhenstra wrote:Hmm, just discovered that Ceres, a minor planet presently orbiting in the asteroid belt will be the next great awakening for the children of man--- It will leave orbit, pass Mars, slowly catch and collide with the earth----in 2015--NASA's KEEPING IT A SECRET, the world must not discover this truth, there will be uncontrollable panic--

Interesting PREMISE!, don't you think?? @-)

Bob

Not really. All bodies of planetary size are well known, within the asteroid belt and within the solar system. Most third graders know them.

Shush Thomas! I want to see how fast the Ceres rumor takes to make the rounds----- ;) ;)

bobhenstra wrote:Bird your video isn't working, perhaps a sign?

Okay... try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMQf8jTR ... qElbAlMqRw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;