Try the Spirits

[Bryan LJ]

Why talk about trying the spirits? Why not just follow leaders? Moses: "Would God that all the Lords people were Prophets, and that the Lord would put his Spirit upon them." (Numbers 11:29) I believe Joseph Smith understood this concept very well. That is why he had such a high focus on seeking God to receiving your Calling and Election or in other words the promise of Eternal Life from God, receiving the 2nd Comforter and deciphering visions or spirits.

Keys for trying spirits

Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can
test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a
criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not;
and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit ofthis kind, who can describe an angel of light?

Visions
"When you see a vision pray for the interpretation if you get not this, shut it up.--There must be certainty in this matter. An open vision will manifest that which is more important."

Genesis 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

2 Corinthians 13:1 In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Spiritual Encounters

Is there any intelligence communicated? Are the curtains of heaven withdrawn, or the purposes of God developed? Have they
seen and conversed with an angel—or have the glories of futurity burst upon their view?

Angels - Spirits - Detecting the Devil

An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all about it.--

129:4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

Accusations
A woman near the same place......began to accuse another sister of things that she was not guilty of, which she said she knew so by the spirit, but was afterwards proven to be false; she placed herself in the capacity of the accuser of the brethren, and no person through the discerning of spirits can bring a charge against another, they must be proven guilty by positive evidence or they stand clear.

I have some to add here. God has warned me about an evil individual before. There was intelligence communicated and I was also given a sign that was fulfilled within a couple of days concerning him or her. I was not given anything to accuse him or her though. Nephi accuses someone in Helaman chapter 9 but he does so by revealing evidence. I am not implying that we can't get a bad impression when approaching Ted Bundy hitch hiking on the side of the road or being given an impression to not have our children be babysat by Chester the molester. I do believe that what God reveals will in the end produce good fruit.

Consequences of following false spirits

“A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliaments in which it has been clothed.” (History of the Church, 4:573.)

Please feel free to add. I do this as much to learn then to just teach.

[Lilli]

An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all about it.--

Simeon, I appreciate your discussion on this vital topic. Can I ask though, if you have the reference for the above quote and who said it? Thanks.

[lemuel]

As I said in college, I'll try anything once.

[Bryan LJ]

An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all about it.--

Simeon, I appreciate your discussion on this vital topic. Can I ask though, if you have the reference for the above quote and who said it? Thanks.

I found it in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith - Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith - on page 164 with this cover: http://bookstore.fairlds.org/product.ph ... oduct=1065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be honest, I however did a word search on my PDF of the Words of Joseph for the key words "angel" and "wings" and it didn't pick up anything. I had assumed previously that the Teachings of the Prophet Book came from the larger Words of JS Book.

[Lilli]

An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all about it.--

Simeon, I appreciate your discussion on this vital topic. Can I ask though, if you have the reference for the above quote and who said it? Thanks.

I found it in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith - Compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith - on page 164 with this cover: http://bookstore.fairlds.org/product.ph ... oduct=1065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be honest, I however did a word search on my PDF of the Words of Joseph for the key words "angel" and "wings" and it didn't pick up anything. I had assumed previously that the Teachings of the Prophet Book came from the larger Words of JS Book.

Thank you. Do you have the book and does it give a further reference to when and where Joseph actually said that? Thanks! Sorry to ask so much. It's just I know people who claim to have been hit by an angel and others who claim to have felt an angel who told them to do evil things, so I just wonder if bad angels can be felt. And I wonder if Joseph really said the above and believed it, then why didn't he say he applied the test when they say an angel appeared to him? He seemed to discern good and bad angels in other ways, like the color of their hair and if they are commanding or teaching things against the scriptures. Just wondering. Thanks.

[log]

God has so ordained that when he has communicated by vision no vision [is] to be taken but what you
see by the seeing of the eye or what you hear by the hearing of the ear—When you see a vision &c pray
for the interpretation if you get not this, shut it up. 34—There must be certainty in this matter. An open
vision will manifest that which is more important. Lying Spirits are going forth in the Earth.
There will be great manifestation of Spirit both false & true. &c. Being born again comes by the Spirit
of God through ordinances. 35 An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a
Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan
of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. 36 An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The
Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if
of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all
about it.—If he comes to a little child, he will adapt himself to the Language & capacity of a little child.
—There is no Gold nor Silver &c. 37 it is false, all is plain in heaven; every Spirit or vision or Singing is
not of God. The Devil is an orator, &c: he is powerful: he took our Savior onto a pinnacle of the temple,
& kept him in the wilderness for forty days. 38 The gift of discerning spirits will be given to the
presiding Elder, pray for him. that he may have this gift 39 Speak not in the Gift of tongues without
understanding it, or without interpretation, The Devil can speak in Tongues. The Adversary will come
with his work, he can tempt all classes, Can speak in English or Dutch.—Let no one speak in tongues
unless he interpret except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside, then he may discern or
interpret or another may. Let us seek for the Glory of Abraham, Noah, Adam, the Apostles have
communion with these things and then we shall be among that number when Christ comes.
—WJS p. 22

[inquirringmind]

God has so ordained that when he has communicated by vision no vision [is] to be taken but what you
see by the seeing of the eye or what you hear by the hearing of the ear—When you see a vision &c pray
for the interpretation if you get not this, shut it up. 34—There must be certainty in this matter. An open
vision will manifest that which is more important. Lying Spirits are going forth in the Earth.
There will be great manifestation of Spirit both false & true. &c. Being born again comes by the Spirit
of God through ordinances. 35 An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a
Spirit, that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First it is contrary to the plan
of God A Spirit cannot come but in glory. 36 An angel has flesh and bones, we see not their glory. The
Devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it, if it be of the Devil, he will flee from you, if
of God he will manifest himself or make it manifest, we may come to Jesus & ask him. he will know all
about it.—If he comes to a little child, he will adapt himself to the Language & capacity of a little child.
—There is no Gold nor Silver &c. 37 it is false, all is plain in heaven; every Spirit or vision or Singing is
not of God. The Devil is an orator, &c: he is powerful: he took our Savior onto a pinnacle of the temple,
& kept him in the wilderness for forty days. 38 The gift of discerning spirits will be given to the
presiding Elder, pray for him. that he may have this gift 39 Speak not in the Gift of tongues without
understanding it, or without interpretation, The Devil can speak in Tongues. The Adversary will come
with his work, he can tempt all classes, Can speak in English or Dutch.—Let no one speak in tongues
unless he interpret except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside, then he may discern or
interpret or another may. Let us seek for the Glory of Abraham, Noah, Adam, the Apostles have
communion with these things and then we shall be among that number when Christ comes.
—WJS p. 22

Being born again comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances?

[log]

Yes, specifically the baptism by water and the baptism by fire.

Hence, this:

Doctrine and Covenants 39:6
6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

And, in fact, baptism by water is not necessarily a prerequisite. (Helaman 5).

It usually is, though.

3 Nephi 12:1
1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.

2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.

[inquirringmind]

Deleted

[inquirringmind]

Yes, specifically the baptism by water and the baptism by fire.

Hence, this:

Doctrine and Covenants 39:6
6 And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.

And, in fact, baptism by water is not necessarily a prerequisite. (Helaman 5).

It usually is, though.

3 Nephi 12:1
1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.

2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.

I thought it was your position that being born again is the baptism of fire?

Now you're saying that the baptism by fire is an ordinance that precedes being born again?

In LDS theology, wouldn't the ordinance that precedes being born again be baptism in water?

[log]

I thought it was your position that being born again is the baptism of fire, now you're saying that the baptism by fire is an ordinance that precedes being born again?

In LDS theology, wouldn't the ordinance that precedes being born again be baptism in water?

The baptism by fire is specifically spiritual rebirth. Normally, it is preceded by baptism by water.

Moses 6
59 That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory;

60 For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified;

61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.

62 And now, behold, I say unto you: This is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time.

63 And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal, and things which are spiritual; things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth, both above and beneath: all things bear record of me.

64 And it came to pass, when the Lord had spoken with Adam, our father, that Adam cried unto the Lord, and he was caught away by the Spirit of the Lord, and was carried down into the water, and was laid under the water, and was brought forth out of the water.

65 And thus he was baptized, and the Spirit of God descended upon him, and thus he was born of the Spirit, and became quickened in the inner man.

66 And he heard a voice out of heaven, saying: Thou art baptized with fire, and with the Holy Ghost. This is the record of the Father, and the Son, from henceforth and forever;

67 And thou art after the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, from all eternity to all eternity.

68 Behold, thou art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all become my sons. Amen.

LDS theology includes the Book of Mormon, which includes the account in Helaman 5, which includes a concrete example that baptism by water is not necessarily a prerequisite to the baptism by fire, and thus baptism by water is not necessarily a prerequisite to spiritual rebirth.

[inquirringmind]

Can a good, well meaning person be used by the devil?

Was Hiram Page deceived, or conspiring with Satan in September 1830?

And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page, between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him; For, behold, these things have not been appointed unto him, neither shall anything be appointed unto any of this church contrary to the church covenants. (D&C 28:11-12.)

[log]

Can a good, well meaning person be used by the devil?

I can give no definitive scriptural answer to that question.

Was Hiram Page deceived, or conspiring with Satan in September 1830?

Since the scripture you cite says plainly he was deceived, it appears you have your answer.

[Lilli]

[quote="inquirringmind"]Can a good, well meaning person be used by the devil?


Yes, I believe good people can easily be deceived to support or do evil and believe in falsehoods without knowing it, while thinking they are righteous. I see how easy it is for everyone I know, myself included, to be deceived to support evil and not realize it. We must be continually trying to further wake up and see where we are being deceived and correct our course. It's not a matter of 'if', but 'how' are we being deceived.

Joseph Smith taught in D&C 76 that 'good honorable people' who allow themselves to be deceived by the craftiness and falsehoods of men shall lose their Celestial standing.

According to D&C 45:57 it seems that we must be wise and live the truths of the Gospel of Christ so we have the Holy Spirit as our guide and aren't deceived to support evil and falsehoods and false prophets, if we want to be counted worthy to abide the second coming and worthy of Celestial Glory.

[inquirringmind]

Was Hiram Page deceived, or conspiring with Satan in September 1830?

Since the scripture you cite says plainly he was deceived, it appears you have your answer.

Yes, I believe good people can easily be deceived to support or do evil and believe in falsehoods without knowing it, while thinking they are righteous. I see how easy it is for everyone I know, myself included, to be deceived to support evil and not realize it. We must be continually trying to further wake up and see where we are being deceived and correct our course.

Thank you.

I can now say that that's something that everyone (catholic/Orthodox, Protestant, and Mormon) seems to agree on.

So if someone here on this forum is/or has been teaching false doctrine, or if real world people who seem sincere in following Christ have some peculiar timing (deciding to drop in with food whenever I think of fasting about the BOM) it isn't necessary to conclude that they're evil people?

That could be helpful in trying to figure out what God is telling me.

Thank you.

[inquirringmind]

P.S. D&C 28 doesn't really give much of the content of Hiram Page's false revelations, but is it safe to assume that he wouldn't have been deceived if the stone had told him that Jesus hadn't come in the flesh, and that he wouldn't have been able to deceive Oliver if he had been denying the incarnation?

(I ask because I'm thinking of 1 John 4:2.)

[log]

Mark 5
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Acts 19
13 ¶Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

[inquirringmind]

Mark 5
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

Did the Gnostics ever deny that Jesus cast out demons?

Or that they recognized His authority?

But they (or the spirits that inspired them) did deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

Some teaching that His flesh was just an illusion, and some teaching that the man "Jesus" and the Spirit "Christ" (or "The Christ consciousness") are two different things.

So you see Log, the passage you've quoted here really doesn't prove anything regarding 1 John 4:2.

It might if the demonic in that passage had cried out "What have I to do with thee,Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? Have you come here in the flesh to torment me?," but no demonic is recorded as saying anything like that in the New Testament.

A more interesting (and perhaps more relevant passage) is Acts 16:1-19.

And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,

What's interesting here is that the "Jesus Christ" that Paul and his companions were preaching had certainly come in the flesh, and I would be interested in thoughts on that.

(And I'd still like to know if anyone thinks it would be safe to assume that Hiram Page wouldn't have been deceived if the stone had told him that Jesus hadn't come in the flesh, and that he wouldn't have been able to deceive Oliver if he had been denying the incarnation?)

[log]

Since "Legion" confessed Jesus, who was standing before "them" in the flesh, I'm not sure you're going to find scriptural justification for a non-revelatory standard, which requires no faith, to try the spirits by.

[inquirringmind]

It's interesting that the Greek verb tense used in 1 John 4:2 is the present tense, and could mean that any spirit that continually and consistently confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh is of God.

And it's interesting that Joseph Smith once commented on this verse, and he didn't say that the text had been corrupted (as I think you once suggested.)

Here is what he said.

Some will say, “try the spirits” by the word. “Every spirit that
confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God,
and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come
in the flesh is not of God.” 1 John 4:2, 3. One of the Irvingites
once quoted this passage whilst under the influence of a
spirit, and then said, “I confess that Jesus Christ is come in
the flesh.” And yet these prophecies failed, their Messiah did
not come; and the great things spoken of by them have fallen
to the ground. What is the matter here? Did not the Apostle
speak the truth? Certainly he did—but he spoke to a people
who were under the penalty of death, the moment they
embraced Christianity; and no one without a knowledge of
the fact would confess it, and expose themselves to death,
and this was consequently given as a criterion to the church
or churches to which John wrote.

This agrees with the best Catholic and Protestant commentaries I've seen.

Here is one example:

Every spirit which confesseth, &c. Not that the confession of this point of faith alone, is at all times and in all cases sufficient; but that with relation to that time, and for that part of the Christian doctrine, which was then particularly to be confessed, taught, and maintained against the heretics of those days, this was the most proper token by which the true teachers might be distinguished from the false. (Challoner)

Haydoch's Bible Commentary (Catholic.)

Now I'd like to know if you think Hiram Page would have been deceived if the stone had told him that Jesus hadn't come in the flesh?

And do you think he would have been able to deceive Oliver and others if he had been denying the incarnation?

BTW: I'm not suggesting that I've ever known you to deny the incarnation, or that you've ever made any distinction (that I know of) between Christ and the Christ consciousness.

I would just like to know if you think it's possible that Hiram was teaching such things before Joseph Smith put a stop to it.

[Simon]

Can a good, well meaning person be used by the devil?

Was Hiram Page deceived, or conspiring with Satan in September 1830?

And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page, between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him; For, behold, these things have not been appointed unto him, neither shall anything be appointed unto any of this church contrary to the church covenants. (D&C 28:11-12.)

Using a good, well meaning person can be, in certain circumstances, much more powerfull to bring people unto destrution than to just do it the obvious way.

[inquirringmind]

Can a good, well meaning person be used by the devil?

Was Hiram Page deceived, or conspiring with Satan in September 1830?

And again, thou shalt take thy brother, Hiram Page, between him and thee alone, and tell him that those things which he hath written from that stone are not of me and that Satan deceiveth him; For, behold, these things have not been appointed unto him, neither shall anything be appointed unto any of this church contrary to the church covenants. (D&C 28:11-12.)

Using a good, well meaning person can be, in certain circumstances, much more powerfull to bring people unto destrution than to just do it the obvious way.

Thank you Simon.

But how do you think he uses good and well meaning people.

With Hiram Page, he seems to have used a black stone, but would he need to use such an object (or things like crystal ball, I Ching, Tarot cards), or could he just some thought or suggestion in a relatively good person's mind that might cause them to do or say something that might mislead someone else?

(I'm not talking about the obvious things we know he throws at man, like temptations, I'm talking about wrong ideas that might seem right to a good person who means well.)

[Simon]

In short, I believe that the devil can use well meaning, good people because of their ignorance

This scripture, talking about out day, gives another good hint

".. they have all gone astray save it be a few, the humble followerrs of Christ, nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err becausse they are taught by the presecpts of mem"

2 Nephi 28:14

The power of the devil, or in fact, the power of any being, including God, is the knowledge they posess. Lucifer uses his knowledge to use any and all means to lead people astray.
That can be through stones, balls e.t.c., or that can be through the traditions of men, the arm of flesh

No matter how good a man is, if he errs in doctrine, the devil can gain power over him according to his knowledge. That is why it is so important that we do not depend on other people for our testimony, including our leaders.

And we have mainly two things that can help us gain konwledge, or better, to know the mysteries of God, and by that, to know how heaven and hell works, and therefore, to know true doctrine, and by that become so rightous that the devil is power no more.

They key is to gain knowledge
Luke 11:52

Woe unto you, layers! Fore ye have taken away the key of knowledge;ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Romans 2:17

Behold, thou are called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God. And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law: And art thou confident that thou thyselfe art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness.
An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the from of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyselfe?

First. You have to ponder about truth, you have to turn to God for revelation, you have to align to the Spirit of God.. All that lies within us, and if we don't use it, we wont get that knowledge that will help us to become rightous. If we dont do these things, we are led by the blind.

Second
All knowledge about the mysteries of God are contained within the Book of Mormon. As a church, the Lord told us that we are under condemnation because we don't take that Book serious enough.

We have to build upon the Rock of Christ, pray always, and if we do that "ALL will turn for our good"
D&C 90:24


In short, it is a lack of knowledge of truth that lets even good people become an tool to in the devils hand, by teaching, and by believing false doctrine.

[inquirringmind]

I've seen the young man saying the blessing at the sacrament meeting get the words wrong, and have to go back and do it again (sometimes more than once.)

I guess that could just be nerves, but if he's done it before, and he knows the words, could it be the devil trying to interfere with the service?

[ajax]

This was interesting in Joseph's teachings:

The Apostles in ancient times held the keys of this Priesthood—of the mysteries of the kingdom of God, and consequently were enabled to unlock and unravel all things pertaining to the government of the Church, the welfare of society, the future destiny of men, and the agency, power and influence of spirits; for they could control them at pleasure, bid them depart in the name of Jesus, and detect their mischievous and mysterious operations when trying to palm themselves upon the Church in a religious garb, and militate against the interest of the Church and spread of truth. We read that they "cast out devils in the name of Jesus," and when a woman possessing the spirit of divination, cried before Paul and Silas, "these are the servants of the Most High God that show unto us the way of salvation," they detected the spirit. And although she spake favorably of them, Paul commanded the spirit come out of her, and saved themselves from the opprobrium that might have been heaped upon their heads, through an alliance with her, in the development of her wicked principles, which they certainly would have been charged with, if they had not rebuked the evil spirit.
-TPJS pg. 206