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First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 12:42 pm
by AGStacker
Thought this guy was a terrorist?!
First Presidency Expresses Condolences at Nelson Mandela's Passing

5 December 2013

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today in regards to the passing of Nelson Mandela:

“With the rest of the world, we mourn the passing of revered statesman Nelson Mandela. His courage, kindness and extraordinary moral leadership have been an example to all people. We express our love and sympathies to his family and the people of South Africa as they remember his extraordinary life.”

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 12:44 pm
by AGStacker
Does someone know the real history on this guy?

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 12:51 pm
by ajax
Here's a start:
http://barelyablog.com/nelson-mandela-t ... of-africa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nelson Mandela, ‘The Che Guevara of Of Africa’

Former South African President Nelson Mandela has died at age 95. As a historic corrective, here are excerpts from “The Che Guevara of Of Africa,” a chapter in my book, “Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America from Post-Apartheid South Africa,” devoted to correcting the myths about the man:

THE CHE GUEVARA OF AFRICA
…To some extent, Mandela’s legend has been nourished—even created—by sentimental Westerners. The measure of the man whom Oprah Winfrey and supermodel Naomi Campbell have taken to calling “Madiba”—Mandela’s African honorific; Winfrey and Campbell’s African affectation—has been determined by the soggy sentimentality of our MTV-coated culture. “Madiba’s” TV smile has won out over his political philosophy, founded as it is on energetic income redistribution in the neo-Marxist tradition, on “land reform” in the same tradition, and on ethnic animosity toward the Afrikaner.

Guru and gadfly, sage and showman, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela is not the focus of this monograph. Boatloads of biographical stuffing can be found in the odes penned to the man. Concentrating on Mandela, moreover, in a narrative about South Africa today would be like focusing on Jimmy Carter in an account of America of 2010. Going against the trend of hagiography as we are, it must be conceded that, notwithstanding Mandela’s agreement with the “racial socialism” currently contributing to the destruction of South Africa, his present role in his country’s Zimbabwefication is more symbolic—symbolic such as his belated, tokenistic condemnation of Mugabe to an intellectually meaty crowd of “moody models, desperate divas and priapic ex-Presidents,” who convened to celebrate Nelson’s ninetieth. The focus of our attention is, then, not the aging leader but his legacy, the ANC. Or “The Scourge of the ANC,” to quote the title of the polemical essay by Dan Roodt.

The patrician Mandela certainly deserves the sobriquets heaped on him by the distinguished liberal historian Hermann Giliomee: “He had an imposing bearing and a physical presence, together with gravitas and charisma. He also had that rare, intangible quality best described by Seamus Heaney as ‘great transmission of grace.’” Undeniably and uniquely, Mandela combined “the style of a tribal chief and that of an instinctive democratic leader, accompanied by old-world courtesy.” But there’s more to Mandela than meets the proverbial eye.

Cut to the year 1992. The occasion was immortalized on YouTube in 2006. Mandela’s fist is clenched in a black power salute. Flanking him are members of the South African Communist Party, African National Congress leaders, and the ANC’s terrorist arm, the Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK), which Mandela led. The sweet sounds of the MK anthem mask the ditty’s murderous words:


Go safely mkhonto
Mkonto we Sizwe
We the members of the Umkhonto have pledged ourselves to kill them—kill the whites

The catchy chorus is repeated many times and finally sealed with the responsorial, “Amandla!” (“Power”); followed by “Awethu” (“to the People”). Mandela’s genial countenance is at odds with the blood-curdling hymn he is mouthing. The “kill the whites” rallying cry still inspires enthusiasm at funerals and at political gatherings across South Africa, and has been, in practice, a soundtrack for the epic murder campaign currently being waged—however seldom it is acknowledged—against the country’s Boers. This is a side of the revered leader the world seldom sees. Or, rather, has chosen to ignore. Indeed, it appears impossible to persuade the charmed circles of the West that their idol (Mandela) had a bloodthirsty side, that his country (South Africa) is far from a political idyll, and that these facts might conceivably be important in assessing him.

Thanks to the foreign press, an elusive aura has always surrounded Mandela. At the time of his capture in 1962 and trial in 1963 for terrorism, he was described as though in possession of Scarlet-Pimpernel-like qualities—materializing and dematerializing mysteriously for his spectacular cameos. The reality of his arrest and capture were, however, decidedly more prosaic. (At the time, the writer’s father had briefly sheltered the children of two Jewish fugitives involved with the ANC’s operations. The family home was ransacked, and the infant Ilana’s mattress shredded by the South African Police.) About the myth of Mandela as a disciplined freedom fighter, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review writes wryly:


[A]s a newly qualified attorney [Mandela] was known as a big spending ladies’ man rather than as a focused political activist. To the horror of his African National Congress (ANC) colleagues, he even fancied becoming a professional boxer, so some of the ANC sighed with relief when he went to jail.

Nor was the ANC very good at terrorism—it certainly had nothing on the ascetic, self-sacrificing Salafis who man al-Qaeda. “Without East European expertise and logistics, not to forget Swedish money, [the ANC] would never have managed to make and transport a single bomb across the South African border,” avers Roodt. There was certainly precious little that would have dampened Joseph Lelyveld’s enthusiasm for “The Struggle.” But when the former (aforementioned) New York Times editor went looking for his exiled ANC heroes all over Africa, he found nothing but monosyllabic, apathetic, oft-inebriated men whom he desperately tried to rouse with revolutionary rhetoric.

In any event, the sainted Mandela was caught plotting sabotage and conspiring to overthrow the government. “Mandela … freely admitted at his trial, ‘I do not deny that I planned sabotage. I planned it as a result of a calm and sober assessment of the political situation.’” Confirms Giliomee: “Under the leadership of Nelson Mandela, the armed wing of the ANC, Umkhonto we Sizwe, embarked on a low-key campaign of sabotage.” For that he was incarcerated for life. In 1967, the U.S. had similarly incarcerated the Black Panther’s Huey Newton for committing murder and other “revolutionary” acts against “racist” America. The FBI under J. Edgar Hoover proceeded to hunt down his compatriots who were plotting sabotage and assassination. Were they wrong too? The South African government later offered to release Mandela if he foreswore violence. Mandela—heroically, at least as The New York Times saw it—refused to do any such thing; so he sat. At the time, the Pentagon had classified the ANC as a terrorist organization. Amnesty International concurred, in a manner; it never recognized Mandela as a prisoner of conscience due to his commitment to violence. In 2002, “ANC member Tokyo Sexwale …, was refused a visa to the United States as a result of his terrorist past.”

Mandela has not always embodied the “great transmission of grace.” The man who causes the Clintons, rocker Bono, Barbra Streisand, Richard Branson, and even Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands to fall about themselves, was rather ungracious to George W. Bush. In 2003, Bush had conferred on Mandela the nation’s highest civilian honor, the Medal of Freedom. Mandela greedily accepted the honor, but responded rudely by calling America “a power with a president who has no foresight and cannot think properly,” and “is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust … If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.” If the then eighty-five-year-old Mandela was referring to the invasion of Iraq, he must have forgotten in his dotage that he had invaded Lesotho in 1998. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Rebranding Socialism
History is being extremely kind to “Madiba.” Since he came to power in 1994, approximately 300,000 people have been murdered. The “Umkhonto we Sizwe” rallying cry is, indubitably, emblematic of the murderous reality that is the democratic South Africa. For having chosen not to implement the ANC’s radical agenda from the 1950s, Mandela incurred the contempt of oddball socialist scribes like the Canadian Naomi Klein. Were Ms. Klein—the author of No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies—more discerning, she’d have credited Mandela for brilliantly rebranding socialism.

His crafty Third-Way politics aside, Mandela has nevertheless remained as committed as his political predecessors to race-based social planning.
An important element of our policy,” he said at the fiftieth ANC Conference, on December 16, 1997, “is the deracialisation of the economy to ensure that … in its ownership and management, this economy increasingly reflects the racial composition of our society … The situation cannot be sustained in which the future of humanity is surrendered to the so-called free market, with government denied the right to intervene … The evolution of the capitalist system in our country put on the highest pedestal the promotion of the material interests of the white minority.

Wrong, “Madiba.” If anything, capitalism undermined the country’s caste system; and capitalists had consistently defied apartheid’s race-based laws because of their “material interests.” Why, the “biggest industrial upheaval in South Africa’s history,” the miner’s strike of 1922, erupted because “the Chamber of Mines announced plans to extend the use of black labor. By 1920 the gold mines employed over twenty-one thousand whites … and nearly one hundred and eighty thousand blacks.” White miners were vastly more expensive than black miners, and not much more productive.

One of the mining chiefs, Sir Lionel Phillips, stated flatly that the wages paid to European miners put the economic existence of the mines in jeopardy. … Production costs were rising so the mining houses, entirely English owned and with no great sympathy for their increasingly Afrikaner workforce, proposed to abandon existing agreements with the white unions and open up for black workers…jobs previously reserved for whites.

A small war ensued. Bigotry led to bloodshed and martial law was declared. Although a defining event in the annals of South African labor, the General Strike exemplified the way South African capitalists worked against apartheid to maximize self-interest. Mandela clearly looks at business through the wrong end of a telescope.

Problematic too is Mandela’s Orwellian use of the world “deracialisation,” when what he was in fact describing and prescribing is racialization—a coerced state of affairs whereby the economy is forced, by hook or by crook, to reflect the country’s racial composition. Duly, the father of the Rainbow Nation also fathered the Employment Equity Act. It has seen the ANC assume partial ownership over business. Mandela’s comrade-in-arms, the late Joe Slovo, once dilated on the nature of ownership in the New South Africa. In an interview with a liberal newsman, this ANC and Communist Party leader suggested an alternative to nationalization which he dubbed ‘socialization.’” With a wink and a nod Slovo explained how the state would—and has since begun to—assume control of the economy “without ownership”:


The state could pass a law to give control without ownership—it can just do it. It can say the state has the right to take the following decisions in Anglo American [the great mining company]. You can have regulations and legislation like that, without ownership.

All of which is under way in South Africa. Mandela, moreover, has provided the intellectual seed-capital for this catastrophic “racial socialism.” (And who can forget how, in September of 1991, “Mr. Mandela threatened South African business with nationalization of mines and financial institutions unless business [came] up with an alternative option for the redistribution of wealth”?)

If the values that have guided Mandela’s governance can be discounted, then it is indeed possible to credit him with facilitating transition without revolution in South Africa. Unlike Mugabe, Mandela did not appoint himself Leader for Life, and has been the only head of state on the Continent to have ceded power voluntarily after a term in office. If not aping Africa’s ruling rogues is an achievement, then so be it.

Granted, Mandela has also attempted to mediate peace around Africa. But, “not long after he was released from prison,” notes The New Republic’s assistant editor James Kirchick, “Mr. Mandela began cavorting with the likes of Fidel Castro (‘Long live Comrade Fidel Castro!’ he said at a 1991 rally in Havana), Moammar Gaddafi (whom he visited in 1997, greeting the Libyan dictator as ‘my brother leader’), and Yasser Arafat (‘a comrade in arms’).” One has to wonder, though, why Mr. Kirchick feigns surprise at—and feels betrayed by—Mandela’s dalliances. Mandela and the ANC had never concealed that they were as tight as thieves with communists and terrorist regimes—Castro, Gaddafi, Arafat, North Korea and Iran’s cankered Khameneis. Nevertheless, and at the time, public intellectuals such as Mr. Kirchick thought nothing of delivering South Africa into the hands of professed radical Marxist terrorists. Any one suggesting such folly to the wise Margaret Thatcher risked taking a handbagging. The Iron Lady ventured that grooming the ANC as South Africa’s government-in-waiting was tantamount to “living in cloud-cuckoo land.”

In The Afrikaners, Giliomee also commends Mandela for his insight into Afrikaner nationalism. Mandela, Giliomee contends, considers Afrikaner nationalism “a legitimate indigenous movement, which, like African nationalism, had fought British colonialism.” This is not persuasive. Forensic evidence against this romanticized view is still being recovered from the dying Afrikaner body politic. Judging by the ANC-led charge against the country’s Afrikaner history and heroes—landmarks and learning institutions—Mandela’s keen understanding of the Afrikaner was not transmitted to the political party he created. Of late, local and international establishment press has showered Mr. Mandela with more praise for serving as the mighty Springboks’ mascot.

The Springboks are the South African national rugby team, and the reigning world champions. Not that you’d guess it from the film “Invictus,” Clint Eastwood’s “over-reverent biopic,” but Mandela has never raised his authoritative voice against the ANC’s plans to force this traditionally Afrikaner game to become racially representative. Conversely, the absence of pale faces among the “Bafana Bafana,” South Africa’s equally celebrated national soccer team, has failed to similarly awaken the leader’s central-planning impulses. Has Mandela piped up about the ANC’s unremitting attacks on Afrikaans as the language of instruction in Afrikaner schools and universities? Or about the systematic culling of the white farming community? Has that paragon of virtue, Mandela, called publicly for a stop to these pogroms? Cancelled a birthday bash with “the hollow international jet set”—“ex-presidents, vacuous and egomaniacal politicians, starlets, coke-addled fashion models, intellectually challenged and morally strained musicians”? Called for a day of prayer instead (oops; he’s an ex-communist)? No, no, and no again.

Bit by barbaric bit, South Africa is being dismantled by official racial socialism, obscene levels of crime—organized and disorganized—AIDS, corruption, and an accreting kleptocracy. In response, people are “packing for Perth,” or as Mandela would say, the “traitors” pack for Perth. The South African Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR) was suitably dismayed to discover that close to one million whites had already left the country; the white population shrank from 5,215,000 in 1995 to 4,374,000 in 2005 (nearly one-fifth of this demographic).

Chief among the reasons cited for the exodus are violent crime and affirmative action. Alas, as the flight from crime gathered steam, the government stopped collecting the necessary emigration statistics. (Correlation is not causation, but …) The same strategy was initially adopted to combat out-of-control crime: suppress the statistics. The exact numbers are, therefore, unknown. What is known is that most émigrés are skilled white men. Also on record is Mandela’s message to them: He has accused whites of betraying him and of being “traitors” and “cowards.” Had “Madiba” wrestled with these defining issues, perhaps he’d be deserving of the monstrous statues raised in his honor. These too are in the socialist realist aesthetic tradition.

SALUTING THE ALPHA MALE
Back to the original question: Why have the leaders of the most powerful country on the continent (Mandela and Mbeki) succored the leader of the most corrupt (Mugabe)? The luminaries of Western café society were not the only ones to have given Mugabe a pass. So did blacks. “When Mugabe slaughtered 20,000 black people in southern Zimbabwe in 1983,” observes columnist Andrew Kenny, “nobody outside Zimbabwe, including the ANC, paid it the slightest attention. Nor did they care when, after 2000, he drove thousands of black farm workers out of their livelihoods and committed countless atrocities against his black population. But when he killed a dozen white farmers and pushed others off their farms, it caused tremendous excitement.”

When he socked it to Whitey, Mugabe cemented his status as hero to black activists and their white sycophants in South Africa, the US, and England.
“Whenever there is a South African radio phone-in programme [sic] on Zimbabwe, white South Africans and black Zimbabweans denounce Mugabe, and black South Africans applaud him. Therefore, one theory goes, Mbeki could not afford to criticise [sic] Mugabe,” who is revered, never reviled, by South African blacks.

Left-liberal journalist John Pilger and classical liberal columnist Andrew Kenny concur: bar Zimbabweans, blacks across Africa and beyond have a soft spot for Mugabe. While issuing the obligatory denunciations of the despot, Pilger makes clear that Mugabe is merely a cog in the real “silent war on Africa,” waged as it is by bourgeois, neo-colonial businessmen and their brokers in western governments. From his comfy perch in England, this Hugo Chávez supporter preaches against colonialism and capitalism. Writing in the Mail & Guardian Online, Pilger untangled the mystery of Mbeki and Mugabe’s cozy relationship: “When Robert Mugabe attended the ceremony to mark Thabo Mbeki’s second term as President of South Africa, the black crowd gave Zimbabwe’s dictator a standing ovation.” This is a “symbolic expression of appreciation for an African leader who, many poor blacks think, has given those greedy whites a long-delayed and just comeuppance.”

South Africa’s strongmen are saluting their Alpha Male Mugabe by implementing a slow-motion version of his program. One only need look at the present in Zimbabwe “if you want to see the future of South Africa,” ventures Kenny. When Mugabe took power in 1980, there were about 300,000 whites in Zimbabwe. Pursuant to the purges conducted by the leader and his people, fewer than 20,000 whites remain. Of these, only 200 are farmers, five percent of the total eight years ago.” Although most farmland in South Africa is still owned by whites, the government intends to change the landowner’s landscape by 2014. “Having so far acquired land on a ‘willing buyer, willing seller’ basis, officials have signaled that large-scale expropriations are on the cards.”

In South Africa, the main instrument of transformation is Black Economic Empowerment (BEE). This requires whites to hand over big chunks of the ownership of companies to blacks and to surrender top jobs to them. Almost all the blacks so enriched belong to a small elite connected to the ANC. BEE is already happening to mines, banks and factories. In other words, a peaceful Mugabe-like program is already in progress in South Africa.
Except that it’s not so peaceful. South Africans are dying in droves, a reality the affable Mandela, the imperious Mbeki, and their successor Zuma have accepted without piety and pity.

Excerpted from “Into the Cannibal’s Pot: Lessons for America from Post-Apartheid South Africa”(pages 140-151)

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 1:03 pm
by AGStacker
I watched a very disturbing documentary about the white farmers in South Africa and his involvement. I didn't know until now how much people love this guy.

I find it so bizarre that the Church's PR put out a statement about him.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 1:13 pm
by Original_Intent
I remember his second wife was fond of putting tires around people's necks and lighting them on fire.

I don't know a lot about the man, other than he was a committed socialist and the RUMORS I have read is that he didn't mind getting his hands bloody to reach his objectives.

I am sure if any LDS tried to use his methods they would be ex-d no question about it. So the eulogizing seems to be for PR value.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 1:15 pm
by Original_Intent
AGStacker wrote: I find it so bizarre that the Church's PR put out a statement about him.
At least we aren't racists.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 1:18 pm
by triple777
But research by a British historian, Professor Stephen Ellis, has unearthed fresh evidence that during his early years as an activist, Mr Mandela did hold senior rank in the South African Communist Party, or SACP. He says Mr Mandela joined the SACP to enlist the help of the Communist superpowers for the ANC's campaign of armed resistance to white rule.

His book also provides fresh detail on how the ANC's military wing had bomb-making lessons from the IRA, and intelligence training from the East German Stasi, which it used to carry out brutal interrogations of suspected "spies" at secret prison camps


If the media loves him... then you know something is wrong.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 3:33 pm
by CWilson
There is a ton of factual evidence this guy was an evil man who killed not only fighting men but women and children. The church coming out and praising him just shows how far we as people (leaders included)have actually strayed from the Gospel. When are we going to wake up realize not all is well in Zion? I am sorry but for me this is just unreal an pathetic the way we follow these self proclaimed men of God. We have polluted the holy church of God and it makes me sick!

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 3:40 pm
by InfoWarrior82
AGStacker wrote:Thought this guy was a terrorist?!
First Presidency Expresses Condolences at Nelson Mandela's Passing

5 December 2013

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today in regards to the passing of Nelson Mandela:

“With the rest of the world, we mourn the passing of revered statesman Nelson Mandela. His courage, kindness and extraordinary moral leadership have been an example to all people. We express our love and sympathies to his family and the people of South Africa as they remember his extraordinary life.”

Even the Lord's prophets aren't always historians.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 3:59 pm
by swiftbrook
Yeah...the Church must get their info/research from mass media and not bother to look at the fine print?

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 6th, 2013, 4:06 pm
by TheLion
CWilson wrote:There is a ton of factual evidence this guy was an evil man who killed not only fighting men but women and children. The church coming out and praising him just shows how far we as people (leaders included)have actually strayed from the Gospel. When are we going to wake up realize not all is well in Zion? I am sorry but for me this is just unreal an pathetic the way we follow these self proclaimed men of God. We have polluted the holy church of God and it makes me sick!
Deserves repeating. He was not a nice man, a smile does not a nice man make.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 7:21 am
by BroJones
The Lord warned Joseph Smith in 1831,
"Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land"
and
"the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives." (D&C 38)

Should we be surprised if the same persists today?
and again, we need to look to the Lord.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 9:34 am
by Thomas
It should be noted that the white minority were actually foreign invaders that enslaved the native populace and stole their rich resources. I guess asking for the invaders to return what they stole is now communism. The invaders subjected the native blacks to inhuman treatment for many years. The black South Africans had as much reason for revenge as any people ever had. Mandela was voice of reason that convinced his country to set aside the revenge that they so badly wanted. He showed true Christ like quailties that have been rarely seen in human history. The expected bloodbath never took place . The collapse of the economy never took place. Everyone was expecting another Zimbabwe. It never happened. Inspite of any past deeds or politics, Mandela has earned my respect. One of the great examples of all time.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 1:01 pm
by lundbaek
I agree that the eulogizing seems to be for PR value. And I think Thomas is quite correct in his statement that "The black South Africans had as much reason for revenge as any people ever had." But consider this report by Henry Markow: http://henrymakow.com/when_do_terrorist ... bel_p.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 1:10 pm
by shestalou
I do understand why they sent their condolences out of respect for the people of South Africa but I have always felt his agenda was more decietful than moral but then again so is Obama, Harper, the Royal Family, Satan, see they all work together! :ymdevil:

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 4:57 pm
by briznian
I spoke with two South African expats about this. Both agreed that Mandela was a bad dude but that he changed during his time in prison. Both had nothing but good to say about him after he got out. Take it for what it's worth.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 5:49 pm
by samizdat
That is also my assessment of Mandela. I am not from South Africa though, but reading up on the dude 27 years in prison changed his outlook, and he was a MUCH better president than his two successors...

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 6:24 pm
by gkearney
I was recently in South Africa and I think we need to remember that the Nelson Mandela that lived before inprisonment and the man that came out of prison nearly 30 years later were very different men indeed. It is true he did lead an armed rebellion against while minority government but then again men like George Washington did the same albeit for different reasons and motivations yet they are help up as heroes.

Today in South Africa Mandela is viewed with nearly universal praise and admiration for his leadership in the post-apathide South Africa. We would do well to remember that many feared the worst for that nation. That it would defend into bloody civil war. That did not happen and while South Africa today faces many challenges, in particular wide spread crime, they have been spared the troubles that have been visited on many nations in Africa and most of the credit for that goes to Mandela for no people had more cause to seek revenge than did the black South Africans the fact that they did not do so speaks volumes about Mandela's moral leadership of the nation at it's darkest hour.

The situation with the white farmers took place in Zimbabwe not South Africa where the Afrikaner farmers still own many prosperous and productive farms.

Black, white and mix-race South African all seem to hold him in the highest regard. The nearest thing I can find to it is the way most Americans view George Washington. So I am saying here that a man can change and I think Mandela is an example of a mightly change of heart that can come over a man. Too bad South Africa does not have more such leaders today.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 7th, 2013, 7:28 pm
by Hannant
Other 70 year old men could take a leaf from his book to make a difference.

Good on him

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 8th, 2013, 7:55 am
by Benjamin_LK
gkearney wrote:I was recently in South Africa and I think we need to remember that the Nelson Mandela that lived before inprisonment and the man that came out of prison nearly 30 years later were very different men indeed. It is true he did lead an armed rebellion against while minority government but then again men like George Washington did the same albeit for different reasons and motivations yet they are help up as heroes.

Today in South Africa Mandela is viewed with nearly universal praise and admiration for his leadership in the post-apathide South Africa. We would do well to remember that many feared the worst for that nation. That it would defend into bloody civil war. That did not happen and while South Africa today faces many challenges, in particular wide spread crime, they have been spared the troubles that have been visited on many nations in Africa and most of the credit for that goes to Mandela for no people had more cause to seek revenge than did the black South Africans the fact that they did not do so speaks volumes about Mandela's moral leadership of the nation at it's darkest hour.

The situation with the white farmers took place in Zimbabwe not South Africa where the Afrikaner farmers still own many prosperous and productive farms.

Black, white and mix-race South African all seem to hold him in the highest regard. The nearest thing I can find to it is the way most Americans view George Washington. So I am saying here that a man can change and I think Mandela is an example of a mightly change of heart that can come over a man. Too bad South Africa does not have more such leaders today.
In addition to what GKearney said, couldn't Mandela also be thanked for assisting in making South Africa a reasonably tolerable and stable place for church membership? If so, he does deserve some thanks, even for that. After all, even adulterers and somewhat violent individuals can and have stuck up for freedom of religion, Morianton being one of them.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 8th, 2013, 8:05 am
by Joel
AGStacker wrote:I watched a very disturbing documentary about the white farmers in South Africa and his involvement. I didn't know until now how much people love this guy.

I find it so bizarre that the Church's PR put out a statement about him.
The statement is probably more about taking advantage of an opportunity to get exposure, the Church has an interest in this, it's mission is a gathering one, maybe someone will take notice of the Church's statement and start investigating into the doctrine.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 8th, 2013, 6:34 pm
by SmallFarm
We (and by extension the Church) should cover our brethren (and this should extend to Brother Mandela) in a blanket of Charity, "for Charity covereth a multitude of sins."

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 10th, 2013, 11:17 am
by Original_Intent
The following video aligns with my current understanding (which may be correct or not). Well worth watching and considering. ~20 minutes long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7HyuLPWF9I" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 10th, 2013, 11:35 am
by ithink
DrJones wrote:The Lord warned Joseph Smith in 1831,
"Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land"
and
"the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives." (D&C 38)

Should we be surprised if the same persists today?
and again, we need to look to the Lord.
Maybe he objects. But he's still wearing those black robes nonetheless. And appropriately so.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 10th, 2013, 11:37 am
by ithink
InfoWarrior82 wrote:
AGStacker wrote:Thought this guy was a terrorist?!
First Presidency Expresses Condolences at Nelson Mandela's Passing

5 December 2013

The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released the following statement today in regards to the passing of Nelson Mandela:

“With the rest of the world, we mourn the passing of revered statesman Nelson Mandela. His courage, kindness and extraordinary moral leadership have been an example to all people. We express our love and sympathies to his family and the people of South Africa as they remember his extraordinary life.”

Even the Lord's prophets aren't always historians.
If "the Lords prophets" cannot discern the past, how can you trust them to decipher the future?