Page 2 of 2

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 10th, 2013, 11:39 am
by ithink
swiftbrook wrote:Yeah...the Church must get their info/research from mass media and not bother to look at the fine print?
The church is a part of the mAss media. The church is not of the alternative. It is now in the mainstream.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 10th, 2013, 10:15 pm
by lundbaek
It troubles me when Church leaders pander to people who stand guilty of evil deeds. But it seems that for whatever reason IMO the Lord condones it. I see it as dishonest, yet, I do believe to do otherwise would give rise to obstruction of missionary and building programs.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 12:32 am
by LatterDaySeeker
Here is what Joel Skousen had to say about Mandela this past week in his World Affairs Brief:
NELSON MANDELA WAS NO HERO
Like Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela is being portrayed as a human and civil rights hero when he merits no such honors. At his death this week at age 95, the entire establishment world is trumpeting praise and honors for this former terrorist and communist co-founder of the African National Congress (ANC). This will surely go on for weeks until it is drummed into the heads of every adult and schoolchild in the modern world. They will name streets and buildings after him and worship a false hero image so that the negative truths will never be allowed to surface.

From 1961 to 1990 the African National Congress waged a war of terrorism against the apartheid government of South Africa. It finally won the battle after a united coalition of Western nations imposed horrendous sanctions on South Africa in order to force a one-man, one-vote "democratic" solution which they knew would bring a black Leftist government to power in the most progressive and rich of all African countries. South Africa was a target of particular interest to the communist-backed ANC because of its strategic minerals even more than its diamonds. Those minerals will be crucial when WWIII comes around and South Africa will be in communist hands.

The media would portray the ANC's battle as democratic and a "people's struggle" against racism, but it was simply ruthless terror. I went to South Africa just before the fall of the government on a fact-finding mission with other conservative leaders in order to see for myself where the truth lay.
The ANC wasn't the only representative of the blacks, but it was the most ruthless and it went on a killing spree against other blacks who dared to organize non-communist political parties that competed for black votes against the ANC.

I saw the results of "necklacing" in South Africa first hand, led by Mandela's even more radical wife, Winnie. ANC shock squads would capture a local black leader in the townships (black ghettos) tie him to a pole, put a tire around his neck, fill it with gasoline and ignite it. The results were horrific and Mandela was in large part responsible. Henry Makow wrote a summary of the terrorism,

In South Africa during the 1960's and 70's, barely a week went by without terrorism -- dynamite at a fuel depot, a car bomb outside Air Force headquarters in in a city center. The ANC's guerrilla force -- known simply as MK, or more formally as Umkhonto we Sizwe translated "Spear of the Nation" was founded in 1961 by Nelson Mandela and his handler, the Communist Joe Slovo.

At first, the targets were infrastructure but two decades later MK was killing civilians without compunction -- grenades would be bowled into a hamburger joint, or a trip-wired limper mine planted in an arcade -- and Mandela did not object. "Notable among these attacks were the January 8, 1982 attack on the Koeberg nuclear power plant near Cape Town, the Church Street bombing on May 20, 1983, killing 19, and the June 14, 1986 car-bombing of Magoo's Bar in Durban, in which 3 people were killed and 73 injured."(Wikipedia)

Of course, Mandela had been in jail since 1963 when captured in a raid of MK headquarters at a farm outside Johannesburg. The ANC was funded and run by communists, and Mandela posed as a farmhand. The farm was purchased and run by Jewish Communist Arthur Goldreich.

In 1985, when the government offered to release Mandela if he would repudiate terrorism, he refused. In 1990, he was let out anyway and vowed the MK would continue to wreak havoc. It was not necessary. The government was ready to negotiate a handover of power. In 1994, Mandela and F.W. de Klerk shared a Nobel Peace Prize. Queen Elizabeth II in her 1996 Christmas message hailed Mandela as a great statesman. (The account of MK terror above is indebted to Philip Gourevitch's review of the novel "Absolution" in The New Yorker, April 30, 2012, p.70)

Michael Hoffman II, provides the evidence of Communist workings within the ANC. He, like Makow, engage in a lot of Jew-bashing, due to the high number of Jews involved in both globalist and communist conspiracies. I don't share the view that it is a "Jewish conspiracy" but rather a globalist conspiracy of power that attracts a lot of smart but unprincipled Jews and gentiles to its leadership ranks:

"The African National Congress (ANC) in South Africa was guided by two Communist Jews, Albie Sachs, "one of its foremost intellectuals"( London Sunday Times, August 29, 1993) and Yossel Mashel Slovo (Joe Slovo, 1926-1995). Slovo was born in a shtetl in Lithuania and grew up speaking Yiddish and studying the Talmud. He joined the ANC's terrorist wing, the Umkhonto we Sizwe, in 1961 and eventually became its commander. He was named Secretary General of the South African Communist Party in 1986. ("Joe Slovo," Jewish Chronicle, January 13, 1995).

Slovo had been the "planner of many of the ANC terrorist attacks, including the 1983 car bomb that killed 19 people and injured many others... Slovo, who had traveled to the Soviet Union many times, was awarded a Soviet medal on his 60th birthday...Slovo is a dedicated Communist, a Marxist Leninist without morality of any kind, for whom only victory counts, whatever the human cost, whatever the bloodshed...Slovo disputes little of his image as 'the Communist mastermind' behind the ANC's armed struggle." [END]

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 12:41 am
by Fiannan
Look at the sadness on this presidency's face: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/12/10/ob ... -ministers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 9:34 am
by samizdat
It is really simple why the First Presidency gave condolences to Madiba.

They believe in a little concept called FORGIVENESS.

Mandela did his time in jail, and when he got out, he had the chance to use his objectionable politics to fan war. He didn't.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 9:46 am
by Original_Intent
samizdat wrote:It is really simple why the First Presidency gave condolences to Madiba.

They believe in a little concept called FORGIVENESS.

Mandela did his time in jail, and when he got out, he had the chance to use his objectionable politics to fan war. He didn't.
Where are the condolences for Hitler then?

Don't give such cop-out responses.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 9:52 am
by SmallFarm
Original_Intent wrote:
samizdat wrote:It is really simple why the First Presidency gave condolences to Madiba.

They believe in a little concept called FORGIVENESS.

Mandela did his time in jail, and when he got out, he had the chance to use his objectionable politics to fan war. He didn't.
Where are the condolences for Hitler then?

Don't give such cop-out responses.
"I the Lord will forgive who I may, but unto you it is given to forgive all men" (paraphrasing from memory, bold mine).

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 9:55 am
by Thomas
How do we define a terrorist? It really depends on who is doing the defining. Mandelea considered himself to be a general on the opposing side against the white government. The government labled him a criminal, terrorist. The government committed crimes of brutality and murder against the blacks but considered those crimes lawful. It is simply because the white government has been given the power to define his actions. Ask the black Africans who they considered to be the terrorist. Mandela demanded to be treated as polictical prisoner and not a criminal prisoner. He once met with a general of the white goverment army and told him, As a general, what treatment I receive will determine what treatment you receive after I win the war.

Mandela won that war. The weapon he used to win was world public opinion. Yes, it is true he used other weapons. Mandela never made good on his threat, choosing intead to forgive. He walked on higher ground than his enemy, not seeking retribution but for reconciliation.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 10:01 am
by samizdat
Original_Intent wrote:
samizdat wrote:It is really simple why the First Presidency gave condolences to Madiba.

They believe in a little concept called FORGIVENESS.

Mandela did his time in jail, and when he got out, he had the chance to use his objectionable politics to fan war. He didn't.
Where are the condolences for Hitler then?

Don't give such cop-out responses.
Hitler never repented of his sins, and even committed suicide in a futile attempt to evade justice.

Mandela went to jail, served his time, got out, repented of his previous violent manners, proclaimed peace, and unified a nation threatening to be split a thousand different ways.

Two VERY different cases. Hitler deserved no forgiveness for his crimes. Mandela served his time and history and rightfully the First Presidency applied the concept of forgiveness to Mandela.

One can disagree with his politics and I do so. But I cannot disagree with the manner in how he brought about change in South Africa after he exited jail.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 10:02 am
by samizdat
Thomas wrote:How do we define a terrorist? It really depends on who is doing the defining. Mandelea considered himself to be a general on the opposing side against the white government. The government labled him a criminal, terrorist. The government committed crimes of brutality and murder against the blacks but considered those crimes lawful. It is simply because the white government has been given the power to define his actions. Ask the black Africans who they considered to be the terrorist. Mandela demanded to be treated as polictical prisoner and not a criminal prisoner. He once met with a general of the white goverment army and told him, As a general, what treatment I receive will determine what treatment you receive after I win the war.

Mandela won that war. The weapon he used to win was world public opinion. Yes, it is true he used other weapons. Mandela never made good on his threat, choosing intead to forgive. He walked on higher ground than his enemy, not seeking retribution but for reconciliation
.

My point exactly.

Re: First Presidency condolences to Mandela?!

Posted: December 11th, 2013, 10:06 am
by Original_Intent
samizdat wrote:
Original_Intent wrote:
samizdat wrote:It is really simple why the First Presidency gave condolences to Madiba.

They believe in a little concept called FORGIVENESS.

Mandela did his time in jail, and when he got out, he had the chance to use his objectionable politics to fan war. He didn't.
Where are the condolences for Hitler then?

Don't give such cop-out responses.
Hitler never repented of his sins, and even committed suicide in a futile attempt to evade justice.

Mandela went to jail, served his time, got out, repented of his previous violent manners, proclaimed peace, and unified a nation threatening to be split a thousand different ways.

Two VERY different cases. Hitler deserved no forgiveness for his crimes. Mandela served his time and history and rightfully the First Presidency applied the concept of forgiveness to Mandela.

One can disagree with his politics and I do so. But I cannot disagree with the manner in how he brought about change in South Africa after he exited jail.
Maybe you should watch the video that I posted above that outlines what exactly has happened in South Africa in the last 15 years as opposed to what the MSM has told you has happened. Or read Joel Skousen's FACTUAL analysis posted above, rather than swallowing the pablum you are fed by your masters.
Sure repentance has its place. I am sure there are many repentant murderers that the First Presidency and the Church do not express condolences when they pass. Even at the end of the day, Mandela was no saint by a country mile. This is a PR move, pure and simple, to give a knee-jerk response that this is the Church demonstrating forgiveness is nothing but a "the thinking has been done for us" response.