Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repentance?

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swiftbrook
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Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repentance?

Post by swiftbrook »

"Yea, he that repenteth and exerciseth faith, and bringeth forth good works, and prayeth continually without ceasing—unto such it is given to know the mysteries of God; yea, unto such it shall be given to reveal things which never have been revealed; yea, and it shall be given unto such to bring thousands of souls to repentance, even as it has been given unto us to bring these our brethren to repentance." (Alma 26:22)

How does qualifying to know the mysteries of God, and having things revealed to you that have never been revealed -- then allow a person to bring thousands of souls to repentance? What is the connection?

During my last lesson on Personal Revelation, a member of my Gospel Doctrine class said he was concerned I was focusing so much on obtaining light and knowledge (and thus becoming like God and knowing our salvation is secure with Him), rather than expressing that we should mostly focus on doing good works, service, missionary teaching, etc.

I believe all of those things are good and important and should be sought after. But, I feel that we can be much more effective in missionary service and bringing others to Christ if we first do this:
Doctrine and Covenants 11:21
21 Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.
So, my question -- Is it important to seek for mysteries from God and to obtain His word first -- and then help, teach, and hopefully have the Spirit convert others? Or should we neglect ourselves and put the oxygen mask on another person before attending to our own spiritual needs?

Obviously, we can and should be doing both simultaneously - working out our own salvation while we do good works and offer missionary service. But can we be effective missionaries and servants without diligently seeking to obtain the Word of God for ourselves?

I suppose there are and have been many young missionaries out in the field who have not truly been converted and baptized with fire, let along received their calling and election from God - and the Spirit is still able to work through them to bring people to Christ. So, how much MORE effective could they be - like in Alma 26 when thousands were brought to repentance - if they had obtained His Word already?

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Simon
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by Simon »

When King Benjaming taught his sons, he said something interesting about the sciptures..

Mosiah 1:5
I say unto you, my sons, awere it not for these things, which have been kept and bpreserved by the hand of God, that we might READ and understand of his mysteries, and have his commandments always before our eyes, that even our fathers would have dwindled in unbelief, and we should have been like unto our brethren, the Lamanites, who know nothing concerning these things, or even do not believe them when they are taught them, because of the ftraditions of their fathers, which are not correct
The scriptures are mostly given for the purpose to learn about the mysteries.. And without knowing them, we dwindle in unbelief.
We need to have these things always before our eyes, so that we can see and understand.

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swiftbrook
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by swiftbrook »

Interesting Simon. Thanks for sharing that.

So, one of the main ways we receive knowledge of mysteries is through the Holy Ghost informing us of them as we read the scriptures?

I guess after we've absorbed all there is to learn from the written word, then we're ready for angelic and Christ's ministry to us personally?

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mes5464
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by mes5464 »

I think there are far too many people in the church today that try to discourage a person from seeking the Second Comforter.

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Simon
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by Simon »

swiftbrook wrote:Interesting Simon. Thanks for sharing that.

So, one of the main ways we receive knowledge of mysteries is through the Holy Ghost informing us of them as we read the scriptures?

I guess after we've absorbed all there is to learn from the written word, then we're ready for angelic and Christ's ministry to us personally?
Even angels teach from the scriptures. There will be a time that we may receive angels, and even the Lord, but even then there will still be much we have to learn from the scriptures. There is more contained in them then we comprehend right now.

Just look at king Benjamin, he has received heavenly messangers and stilk teaches the importance of always having the commandments before our eyes.

There is tremendous value in the Book of Mormon.

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lemuel
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by lemuel »

swiftbrook wrote: During my last lesson on Personal Revelation, a member of my Gospel Doctrine class said he was concerned I was focusing so much on obtaining light and knowledge (and thus becoming like God and knowing our salvation is secure with Him), rather than expressing that we should mostly focus on doing good works, service, missionary teaching, etc.

I believe all of those things are good and important and should be sought after. But, I feel that we can be much more effective in missionary service and bringing others to Christ if we first do this:
Just respond with "I was called by an inspired bishop who was called by an inspired SP, yada yada yada, who was called by an inspired Prophet. To question my lesson is to question the prophet, and have the spirit of antichrist. Are you trying to steady the ark, brother?"

log
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by log »

No. Really say that. Please. Return and report.

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lemuel
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by lemuel »

Also, swift, I imagine no woman has ever been disfellowshipped/ex'd in her last trimester. This is your big chance to say anything you want--start channeling Amonhi or whatever. I'm pretty sure you're not accountable right now.

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swiftbrook
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by swiftbrook »

lemuel wrote:Also, swift, I imagine no woman has ever been disfellowshipped/ex'd in her last trimester. This is your big chance to say anything you want--start channeling Amonhi or whatever. I'm pretty sure you're not accountable right now.
Oh my goodness - best comment ever. Bahahaaaaa!
:))

I honestly do get the feeling that people are being extra nice to me (people in high leadership positions) lately cuz of my huge belly.

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swiftbrook
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

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Okay, but really -- should we just focus on good works and service and put all that seeking light and knowledge on the back burner? Now this sounds silly as I type it out, but the commenter is the past bishop in our ward and he was dead serious. His more exact comment included that the early saints in Joseph's time didn't sit around seeking revelations and trying to learn mysteries -- instead they went out on missions and sought to bring people into the Church.

log
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Post by log »

I think that is a good part of what went wrong in the early church.

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swiftbrook
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Post by swiftbrook »

And what still is happening right now in the Church.

kathedralegs
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Post by kathedralegs »

swiftbrook wrote:Okay, but really -- should we just focus on good works and service and put all that seeking light and knowledge on the back burner? Now this sounds silly as I type it out, but the commenter is the past bishop in our ward and he was dead serious. His more exact comment included that the early saints in Joseph's time didn't sit around seeking revelations and trying to learn mysteries -- instead they went out on missions and sought to bring people into the Church.
For years I would try to serve and do good works. My focus was the actions and there were times I felt that maybe I made a difference. The light and knowledge I have received over the last year from studying, praying, pondering, recording and following promptings, have changed me profoundly. I find that I don't think about what I "should" do. Compassion, love and a desire to reach out seem to come more naturally and people respond differently than ever before. I am different. I don't say this to boast or to say anything other than my spiritual growth came through nourishing my spirit with all that is truth. The rest has become a natural by product. When I neglect those things I feel less inclined to think of or to serve others.

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lemuel
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by lemuel »

swiftbrook wrote:Okay, but really -- should we just focus on good works and service and put all that seeking light and knowledge on the back burner? Now this sounds silly as I type it out, but the commenter is the past bishop in our ward and he was dead serious. His more exact comment included that the early saints in Joseph's time didn't sit around seeking revelations and trying to learn mysteries -- instead they went out on missions and sought to bring people into the Church.
Don't see why it has to be an either/or deal, as if seeking light and knowledge means that you have to live a monastic life of solitary study.

Sincere study should lead to good works, and is a precursor to it.
D&C 11:21 Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed;
And good works will lead to light and knowledge.
John 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine
But as for you and your lessons, the little man or woman in your belly is telling you to talk about seeking light and knowledge.

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jdawg1012
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Post by jdawg1012 »

You know, I was thinking about a subject very much along these lines (sorry I plan to digress a tiny bit, but it really is relevant, I think) just in the last two days, pretty intently. I have a close friend, who recently went through some trouble, and it seems like virtually every church member has come out of woodwork to tell him that everything bad that has happened is because he's an awful sinner. (Ok, not everyone, but several). I have not been present for all of the conversations, but I have been related a of what happened in them, and know all of the people involved.

In any event, I think that many of these people are given over to Satan. I know, I know, maybe I'm just painting with a wide swath, but seriously, I honestly believe that. I believe there is hope for them and everything, but seriously, I have made this observation. These people do not represent God to me, at all.

God hates sin, I know it, He knows it, we know it, it's pretty clear. But God LOVES people. I mean, really think about that. God LOVES you. Elder Maxwell said that our individual worth is already established as great, it doesn't vacillate like the stock market. President Cannon said that God doesn't willingly inflict hurt upon His children, or deny them blessing, only letting them have a smaller pain now, to avoid greater pain later, and withholding blessings now to give you greater blessings later.

Why do I say this? Because I am so tired of people heaping upon persecutions on the downtrodden. I have yet, yet, to EVER meet someone who didn't sin horribly, and most of the time (even if they ignored it in their own self-inventory). Even the scriptures are replete with people calling themselves wicked (like Nephi, Paul and Alma), or being called wicked by the Lord (Like Joseph Smith, Jr.). Oh why, oh why then, do people think they are so much better than everyone else? I admit I've done it, I'm sorry. (I will state that a lot of times people feel like I'm being judgmental, I'm really and truly not trying to be, but communication is sometimes difficult). I do judge sins, and all the time. It's required. I don't go outside without judging the warmth or the light, or anything else. But I don't judge people's final resting place, and increasingly, if I find their works to be bad, I simply try and enable them to be better. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and I try really, really hard to overlook lots of things. I mean, I want the same thing.

I am so tired of the cripples being told well, "If you were righteous, and had faith, God would heal you." Or if people lose their jobs, "Well, God doesn't bless sinners." Or if an accident befalls someone, "Well, too bad they didn't get right with God when they had the chance." Or in every situation, "That's what happens to people who make bad choices."

I mean really? Really?

Ugh.

They must have missed where God said he sends rain upon the wicked and the righteous, and the sun upon the just and unjust. Nope, to the self righteous every bad thing befalls (OTHER) people because they are wicked. But for them, it's just a trial. Or Good things happen to them because they are so great and blessed. And good things happen to bad people because it's just to testify against them later. Well my friends, those swords cut both ways!

Ok, I'll turn the rant off. But I wanted to say that, because no one that isn't filled with the love of God is going to entice anyone to repent. They can be a terrible sinner. Who isn't? I mean, even hating someone may as well make you a murderer, according to the Savior. When I say that these people I mentioned, have given themselves over to Satan, I say so not because they are inherently evil (they're not), or because they cannot repent (they can), but because their "anti gospel" is never good news. There is never encouragement, never advocacy before the Father, just accusations, which Satan does night and day. And really, who wants to hear, "You can go to heaven, and God will love you, but not you, because you're a sinner, and God can't accept that." There's never a "Come along, let's get you cleaned up." Or a "I don't really need this plasma TV, how about I sell it, and we get you a doctor." Never a "Bob, (Tom, Mary, Annie), sure looks lonely, let's invite him(/her) over and make them a big family meal to know they're loved and wanted."

I realize these things sometimes happen, but almost never. My father, may he rest in peace, never turned someone out, ever. He took in people from abusive situations. He invited single people to our family gatherings, he took in probably dozens of people during his life, and raised lots, and lots of kids that weren't his own, that people either needed help with, dumped on him, or was given by the state. My mother was there too, but she largely protested a lot. She is due a certain level of respect and gratitude, but was not cut from the same cloth as my father. But they loved each other despite their perfections, and I don't want to take anything away from that. But my father was a very special man.

I remember that when my friends came over, I would try and make them the cheaper food, like ramen, and my dad would sit at the table (He did a lot of reading and pondering at the kitchen table) and yell out, 'Why don't you make them some steaks?" or "Let's go get some pizza!" We did not have a lot of money due to medical issues (my mother), etc., but my dad did anything and everything for people that he could. Even strangers. He would hire panhandlers and downtrodden family members, and pay them far more than their labor was worth, just to bless them (I guess now that I think, that's how Joseph Smith was). I like to say, my dad never met a man or woman he couldn't or wouldn't help. (Though some particular mean people he stopped dealing with as he became an old man, he just got tired of fighting on too many fronts). A few people were extraordinarily mean to my father. Some people are just plain bad. My dad was by no means perfect. I know a lot of people who do a lot of good things, but I know of no body who sacrificed like my dad. I do know a lot who would if they had more, and I will say that. Their 2 mites may have been worth just and much. But dad raised other peoples children for nearly 30 years, until he died. truly, he had a heart of gold. The last years of his life he was not worthy to enter the temple, and the last 15-20 he didn't attend church (a few people were very cruel to him and drove him away). But he never, ever stopped searching for the truth. Even if it was from the sermons of other faiths, or asking me gospel questions, or watching conference on TV. I cannot name a single lesson he taught me from the Book of Mormon (if ever there was one), but my dad was a living embodiment of discipleship. And he made it. He may not be done with the process yet, and his path may have meandered, but he always walked, and in the end, crawled, towards Zion.

So I guess I just want to say, "BE GOOD." Be good to one another, love one another. There is no doubt in my mind that reading the scriptures is important. Praying is important. Serving is important. But loving, loving is what God is. One cannot know God and not love others. One cannot love others without loving themselves. And one cannot love themselves, without being good to others. God truly IS love. Of that I testify, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

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brlenox
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by brlenox »

swiftbrook wrote: Or should we neglect ourselves and put the oxygen mask on another person before attending to our own spiritual needs?

Obviously, we can and should be doing both simultaneously - working out our own salvation while we do good works and offer missionary service.
Matthew 16:25.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

log
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It is very difficult to save others' lives without knowledge.

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TZONE
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I used to think it was ok. The more I learn the less I think it is ok to focus on anything but growing in light and truth.
Salvation cannot come without revelation; it is in vain for anyone to minister without it. No man is a minister of Jesus Christ without being a Prophet. No man can be a minister of Jesus Christ except he has the testimony of Jesus; and this is the spirit of prophecy. Whenever salvation has been administered, it has been by testimony. Men of the present time testify of heaven and hell, and have never seen either; and I will say that no man knows these things without this.
Joseph Fielding Smith (editor), Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 160
I truly think we do not do it correctly in many ways with misisonary work but as Hinckley said, "its all we got". Its the sad truth.
Be careful about sending boys to preach the gospel to the world; if they go, let them be accompanied by some one who is able to guide them in the proper channel, lest they become puffed up, and fall under condemnation and into the snare of the devil: finally, in these critical times, be careful; call on the Lord day and night. Beware of pride: Beware of false breth ren, who will creep in among you to spy out your liberties, &c. Awake to righteousness and sin not; let your light shine, and show yourselves work men that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Apply yourselves diligently to study, that your minds may be stored with all ne cessary information. Joseph Smith, http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSumma ... ember-1833" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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jdawg1012
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by jdawg1012 »

TZONE wrote:
I truly think we do not do it correctly in many ways with misisonary work but as Hinckley said, "its all we got". Its the sad truth.
Be careful about sending boys to preach the gospel to the world; if they go, let them be accompanied by some one who is able to guide them in the proper channel, lest they become puffed up, and fall under condemnation and into the snare of the devil: finally, in these critical times, be careful; call on the Lord day and night. Beware of pride: Beware of false breth ren, who will creep in among you to spy out your liberties, &c. Awake to righteousness and sin not; let your light shine, and show yourselves work men that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Apply yourselves diligently to study, that your minds may be stored with all ne cessary information. Joseph Smith, http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSumma ... ember-1833" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Personally, I don't want to take anything away from those missionaries who are loving and serving their fellow man. But with all due respect to them, I think the average missionary doesn't really have the mindset to be an effective missionary, (Sorry!).

I never served a mission (I am a convert, and while I could have gone, I didn't have the support in doing so, was not well educated in the gospel at 19--I basically knew nothing, I never attended Seminary, and not institute until I was 19, turning 20). But I have gone on missionary splits here in the U.S. and in a foreign country, many, many times which probably added up to 6 months worth of days (as a teenager, I went out with the missionaries from sun up to sun down, for a long time, because I wanted to help and to learn).

In any event, apart from the Bible, I knew next to nothing about the Gospel, besides the missionary discussions, until I was older. I never even read the Book of Mormon until I was about 20.

So anyway. Several years ago, I was at a friend's house (a young, mid twenties couple) who were the ward mission leaders, and they had me and the missionaries over for dinner. During the course of discussion, we were talking about gospel topics and principles, stories, etc., and neither missionary knew virtually anything about what we were talking. (I'm not talking really deep doctrines, like we do here, either...remember I was a fairly recent convert, and fairly knew to most gospel topics, but I did read a lot of scriptures, and attend a lot of classes). One had been out over a year, and the other a few months. Both were life long members (If I remember right), and one was from Utah.

Anyway, we drifted from topic to topic, but they didn't seem to know about any of them. They said something like "Wow, I feel guilty now." or something like that (for not knowing virtually any of the scriptural things we were discussing). I said, "Well, you remember the things that you focus on, and care about." (This is something I commonly teach, loud and long, but I'll save it). They said, "What do you mean?" I asked if they went to seminary, they said "Yes." I asked if they studied their scriptures, they said "yes." I said, "Ok, what do you know about [a certain video game character]?" There immediately erupted a cacophony of storylines, and nostalgic times playing, and on and on. The characters bio and back-story, etc., they both seemed relatively expert. One of them (I think the one going home in a few months) said, "All my friends have written me about it, and I can't wait until i get home and can play." I said, "Well there you go, that's what you focused on, that's what you know."

I know there are great kids out there and great missionaries, but I have also known some old timers that were sent much older, and while married (this was much earlier in the last century). I don't know, I just felt a very different way about the divergent ideas and life statuses. I don't have a problem, per se, of missionaries going out young, but I know many who know very little about the gospel (I have answered many questions to investigators that missionaries were stymied by), or who don't want to be there (they were promised cars, etc. to go), or who just plain didn't have their hearts in it. I don't think people should be forced to go, or ridiculed into going. I tell anyone who asks me, "If you don't want to go, don't go."

I had an elderly land lady who served 3 missions with her late husband. One of her grandchildren came to visit her. He said, "Grandma, everyone is telling em to go, but I don't want to." She said, "Then don't." He said, "What do you mean?" She said, "If you don't want to go, don't go. I'll love you the same." Later that night, the boy's (Mother, I think it was, either her daughter, or daughter in law), called and said, "What do you mean, by telling my son he doesn't have to go on a mission?!" She said, "He doesn't! And let me tell you, I've served three, and I know enough to know that when a missionary doesn't want to serve a mission, he has no business being there. he is a detriment to his companion, his zone, and the whole mission! If he doesn't want to go, he shouldn't go."

The boy didn't go.

I have always respected that idea. Some people want to coerce people into duty, service, heaven, whatever, but I don't believe in it. I believe in encouragement, but honesty, especially with oneself. I didn't used to believe in turning down callings, but I do now, if one really feels that they cannot do it, and who isn't willing to try. Some people are just not cut out for one thing or another. It can be noble to try if one wants, but in my opinion (and it appears doctrinal, according to Moroni), there is nothing sacrificed when you don't really want to do something. And as Elder Maxwell said, "All we really have to give is our own will, anyway. Everything else is just returned to "Sender" with a capital S." If we just go through the motions, I don't believe it really counts. Elder Oaks said a sense of duty gets a lot of things done, but it's not really a good reason to serve (Laying up treasures in heaven and Charity, obviously, being the best).

Anyway, that's why I don't believe the best missionary is a young boy who probably doesn't know much about the gospel, and is likely to not even want to be there. But members seem to shirk the work themselves, so I applaud the full time missionaries for at least trying what no one (or rather, so few) else seem committed to do.

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lemuel
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by lemuel »

And that boy was damned because the only girls that would date him were those with 2 earrings in each ear...

log
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At least they were holey....

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jdawg1012
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by jdawg1012 »

lemuel wrote:And that boy was damned because the only girls that would date him were those with 2 earrings in each ear...
I literally laughed out loud. Isn't that the case. I know where I grew up, in the singles wards (I attended 3 different ones, back home, on account of moving), girls were pretty excited if a boy even talked to them. They were very humble and very kind. There were some that were not (usually they came from families that settled in from Utah, because there were certain areas that that happened to), but they were the exception, but not the rule. I remember most of my wards had about 3 active girls to one active guy. Many that were ten or so years older than me (who would have been nearing the cutoff), married non-members, or married anyone who would talk to them and was semi-active. They really didn't care if they went on a mission, etc. And I know many who got married to that less than perfect man and had happy lives together. That was common of a lot of women I knew also who were a generation older, lots and lots married non-member men. Some later joined, some did not, but most of them were pretty happy.

When I moved to Utah, I saw a complete 180 in the little princesses here (unless they were from Idaho). You practically had to submit a CV letter, a temple recommend, and a missionary journal to say hello to them. It was complete and utter culture shock. I noticed that some of the more rural folk were nicer (as they tend to be in almost all places), but in town, it was pathetic. I had many worthy, male friends who even met the requirements for missions, etc., but who didn't make the visual cut (they were ugly, lol). I never went on a mission, so it was a complete change for me, because I was used to being talked to and flirted with all the time (I've been told I'm good looking, so take that for what it's worth). Though there were still girls that I dated, among certain demographics all dialog ended at "Did you go on a mission?"

Drama queens existed where I came from, but I don't know if it's the changing times, the venue (which I know is a part), or what all, but WOW. There was an article a few weeks back on Deseret News, I think, that talked about girls/women not needing to rush to get married, because they were independent etc. and it was written by a 30 year old single woman. Either in the article, or its comments, someone was saying how immature (and overall unworthy) the boys these days are. That's fine and dandy, but the women of this upcoming generation seem to have a huge dichotomy. Feminism has truly run it's course. Men have little incentive to marry women today. Someone here posted a really good video about two weeks ago talking about feminism and the government as a sugar daddy. It's very good. There is a culture war on males, but I'll save that for that thread.

My parents (mother and father), grew up singing "get an ugly woman to marry you" (I guess the media of their time, lol), I don't actually know the song name, but my dad used to always tell us boys not to pass up the ehem "less visually appealing girls." He said, "If you focus on looks, you'll pass up lots of good women, and maybe even the best and most loving woman that will take good care of you," etc. Knowing what I now know about what intimacy, and attraction really mean (that has a lot to do with my formal education), I tell young men and women both that their silly Victorian notion of chemistry and "love" are silly. An adopted brother of mine once told me, that his patriarch once asked him and his wife (they were newly married at the time), "Do you love each other?" They both gave an emphatic "yes." He said, "No you don't." They were miffed. But he continued, "You like each other, you're attracted to one another, and you're learning to love one another, but you don't love one another, that's comes later through trials, and struggles, and sacrifice." Retelling the story to me (about ten years later), they admitted that over the course of the years, they learned what he meant.

I don't think it's wrong to want "chemistry," (what they mean is sexual excitement, aka lust, I guess) but I do believe as the prophets have taught, that pretty well any man and woman can marry and have a happy, successful marriage, if they're willing to put the work into it. I don't mind girls who pass up guys they think hold different ideologies, but I get tired of those same girls, treating young men like they're somehow inferior, and who run through life like the world is beneath them. I have found that in this area, women sure want a lot in a man. In my parent's day, they wanted a man to provide stability. Today, universally, women seem to want a man to be a stepping stone, and they might or might not decide to keep him. And especially among Utah culture (I do not conflate Utah culture with LDS culture, although there are some overlaps), men are often just seen as a enablers, people who help women climb the social ladder (and are often later dumped, most divorces, especially no fault divorces are filed by women). Maybe that's equality at work, I dunno.

There are many good women in Utah, and I know that I'm painting a wide brush. But the atmosphere is definitely different here. But obviously you've noticed a trend, and hence your comment. So I can't be completely crazy!

By the way, I have the same feelings about men who would pass over a girl who has two earrings. While my personal preference is none (no earrings), I cannot fathom not even considering a girl because she has two. I dunno. I will also say that I'm sure there are synonymous issues with boys too, but as a male, I only know it from the male perspective. But I guess my theory is that in a culture (Utah) where so many people are homogenous in race, politics, religion, education (very few leave the area/state compared to where I'm from), sports interests, birthplace (Las Vegas, where I am from is really, really transient, that's not the case here), social status, etc., people that want to stand out have to start getting really picky. I mean when really virtually everyone has 99% in common with you, you have to find that 1% and blow it out of proportion, if you want to have an excuse to not get married. I guess that's why it's easier for me to see the culture here. To outsiders it's pretty blatant how similar many people here are, because we're looking at all the commonalities. But people here are itching for something that sets them apart, and while it exists, it's not as demonstrative of a more diverse group found virtually everywhere else. Back home everyone was different (last I heard, only 3% of people living in Las Vegas are from there, and there's many races, faiths, etc.), so we would take just about anything we had in common, and ignore lots of differences. Here, that doesn't seem to be the case.

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marc
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by marc »

Can you or the Spirit draw from an empty well? We don't get to know what kind of upbringing/learning of the likes of the four sons of Mosiah or Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite, but surely, they had an exceptional foundation of gospel doctrine knowledge.

log
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by log »

coachmarc wrote:Can you or the Spirit draw from an empty well? We don't get to know what kind of upbringing/learning of the likes of the four sons of Mosiah or Abinadi or Samuel the Lamanite, but surely, they had an exceptional foundation of gospel doctrine knowledge.
37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
2 Nephi 32:5
5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Doctrine and Covenants 42:17
17 For, behold, the Comforter knoweth all things, and beareth record of the Father and of the Son.
Moses 6:61
61 Therefore it is given to abide in you; the record of heaven; the Comforter; the peaceable things of immortal glory; the truth of all things; that which quickeneth all things, which maketh alive all things; that which knoweth all things, and hath all power according to wisdom, mercy, truth, justice, and judgment.
Isaiah 50:4
4 The Lord God hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.
Alma 32:23
23 And now, he imparteth his word by angels unto men, yea, not only men but women also. Now this is not all; little children do have words given unto them many times, which confound the wise and the learned.
&c., &c.

rlovendale
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Re: Learn Mysteries of God - then bring Thousands to Repenta

Post by rlovendale »

And to add further to log's list above:
D&C 84:85 Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say; but treasure up in your minds continually the words of life, and it shall be given you in the very hour that portion that shall be meted unto every man.
We cannot treasure up something which we have not studied intently, applied in our lives, and received spiritual confirmation of its truth. This stood out to me this morning in Pres. Eyring's talk in the Oct. 2013 Priesthood Session:
In your service as a full-time missionary, you will go to thousands of people in great spiritual need. Many, until you teach them, will not even know that they have spiritual wounds that, left untreated, will bring endless misery. You will go on the Lord’s errand to rescue them. Only the Lord can bind up their spiritual wounds as they accept the ordinances that lead to eternal life.

As a quorum member, as a home teacher, and as a missionary, you cannot help people repair spiritual damage unless your own faith is vibrant. That means far more than reading the scriptures regularly and praying over them. The prayer in the moment and quick glances in the scriptures are not preparation enough. The reassurance of what you will need comes with this counsel from the 84th section of the Doctrine and Covenants: [D&C 84:85]

That promise can be claimed only if we “treasure up” the words of life and do it continually. The treasuring part of that scripture has meant for me a matter of feeling something about the words. For instance, when I have gone to try to help someone wavering in his or her faith about the Prophet Joseph Smith’s divine calling, feelings come back to me.

It is not only the words from the Book of Mormon. It is a feeling of assurance of truth that comes whenever I read even a few lines from the Book of Mormon. I cannot promise that it will come to every person infected with doubt about the Prophet Joseph or the Book of Mormon. But I know Joseph Smith is the Prophet of the Restoration. I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God because I have treasured it.

I know from experience that you can get the assurance of truth from the Spirit because it has come to me. You and I must have that assurance before the Lord puts us in the way of a traveler we love who has been wounded by the enemies of truth.

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