Misleading people

[TheLion]

I am wondering if there is an answer to this, any scripture that would support or refute it would be appreciated. Especially, if the scripture comes from the Old/New Testament. BoM is fine, but I like to relate stuff to the OT and NT as well if possible in certain situations. So what I am wondering is:

If someone misleads other people away from God, through good intention, believing they were leading people to God how is that viewed by God? First for the person that was misleading, wouldn't God see in their heart they were trying to lead people to God? For the people being mislead, can they plead ignorance that they thought they were following Gods word/plan?

These questions are asked as simply as I can to not confuse the core point. Obviously, they should be more detailed questions.

Now for a follow up question, what if people were indeed following scripture but certain scriptures were withheld from them that were instrumental for better or more accurate understanding; and beyond that what if vocabulary has changed (either due to word usage or translation) so much that the original message is now twisted into something close enough to be rationalized for truth but is actually far enough away from Gods word that it's damning.

Thanks for any attention that may be paid to these questions, I'm sincerely interested to read what a few of you might answer. Some may read my questions and wonder if I have an ulterior motive, I do not, I'm genuinely interested in the questions as I asked how I asked as I do not personally have an answer, nor have I prayed on them (yet). They just came to my mind and I have no answer that can be explained via scripture.

[log]

2 Nephi 28:15
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

As Joseph said, only a fool trifles with the souls of men.

[TheLion]

2 Nephi 28:15
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

As Joseph said, only a fool trifles with the souls of men.

What exactly does that mean? Preach false doctrines purposefully? Unwittingly? Mistakenly? Absent full knowledge?

I believe it's clear if people are preaching false doctrines intentionally, woe be unto them. I'm wondering about the rest...

[AGStacker]

"Blind leading the blind"...

Perhaps if they sought God and measured their beliefs against the standard they wouldn't fall into this mess. I believe that those who teach false doctrines in our Church, thinking of the GAs specifically, do so out of ignorance. In this sense they are blind. It is hard to break away from one's paradigm.

If you are told to pay 10% of your income monthly to the Church since your youth and you are told this by people who you look up to then it is difficult to ever break away from that but you are in fact blind because you rely on blind leaders. They themselves do not enter the kingdom of Heaven because of their blindness nor do those who follow them.

[log]

2 Nephi 28:15
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

As Joseph said, only a fool trifles with the souls of men.

What exactly does that mean? Preach false doctrines purposefully? Unwittingly? Mistakenly? Absent full knowledge?

I believe it's clear if people are preaching false doctrines intentionally, woe be unto them. I'm wondering about the rest...

That's not what it says. 'All who preach false doctrines.'

There's no wiggle room.

[TheLion]

That's not what it says. 'All who preach false doctrines.'

There's no wiggle room.

Perhaps that is indeed what it means, I'm not 100% convinced it's quite so cut and dry but acknowledge it could be...Now how does that relate to people that are following a leader they believe is teaching the word of God accurately?

[Lizzy60]

I believe if you prayerfully study John 10 and Romans 9, especially the following verses, you will find your answer.

John 10:1-5, 8, 10-14, 26-29
Romans 9:6-7, 32-33
Romans 10:1-3

I am at work and do not have the time to transcribe the scriptures on this post. Also, this is a very important subject, and I would suggest going to these teachings of Christ in prayer, and ask for His understanding as you ponder them. You are more than welcome to PM me if you want to discuss further.

[TheLion]

I believe if you prayerfully study John 10 and Romans 9, especially the following verses, you will find your answer.

John 10:1-5, 8, 10-14, 26-29
Romans 9:6-7, 32-33
Romans 10:1-3

I am at work and do not have the time to transcribe the scriptures on this post. Also, this is a very important subject, and I would suggest going to these teachings of Christ in prayer, and ask for His understanding as you ponder them. You are more than welcome to PM me if you want to discuss further.

Thank you I shall go read those

[log]

That's not what it says. 'All who preach false doctrines.'

There's no wiggle room.

Perhaps that is indeed what it means, I'm not 100% convinced it's quite so cut and dry but acknowledge it could be...Now how does that relate to people that are following a leader they believe is teaching the word of God accurately?

2 Nephi 28:31
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

[TheLion]

That's not what it says. 'All who preach false doctrines.'

There's no wiggle room.

Perhaps that is indeed what it means, I'm not 100% convinced it's quite so cut and dry but acknowledge it could be...Now how does that relate to people that are following a leader they believe is teaching the word of God accurately?

2 Nephi 28:31
31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Yet that is exactly what so very many do.

[Lilli]

If someone misleads other people away from God, through good intention, believing they were leading people to God how is that viewed by God? First for the person that was misleading, wouldn't God see in their heart they were trying to lead people to God? For the people being mislead, can they plead ignorance that they thought they were following Gods word/plan?

Joseph Smith taught in D&C 45 and 76 and many other places, that despite the fact that we may be good, kind, and honorable church going people or leaders, if we allow ourselves to be deceived by the craftiness of men and their falsehoods or by false prophets, then we can lose our Celestial standing. It would be even more serious to lead others astray with us.

I believe God holds us accountable for being deceived because if we lived righteously we would have the Holy Spirit as our guide and we would come to see where and how we are being deceived.

This life is a test to see who can be deceived to support or do evil and falsehoods or not, by whether we live righteous enough to have the Holy Spirit and receive the real truth from personal revelation. Truly righteous people have charity and thus can't be deceived (according to Joseph Smith), at least not for long. But without true Charity we are nothing and we are easily deceived but wouldn't know it.

The problem is, most everyone thinks they are righteous and right and have the Spirit of God teaching them, even most of the most wicked.

But I believe it is possible to be righteous with just having the New Testament to follow, for Christ explained all we need to know to become worthy of Exaltation and gain the Holy Spirit as our guide so we can discern all truth from error.

There also have probably been those who have been righteous and weren't deceived by falsehoods, even though they never heard about Christ, because they were born with the light of Christ and followed it, like people in non-christian religions.

[lemuel]

That's not what it says. 'All who preach false doctrines.'

There's no wiggle room.

Perhaps that is indeed what it means, I'm not 100% convinced it's quite so cut and dry but acknowledge it could be...Now how does that relate to people that are following a leader they believe is teaching the word of God accurately?

There are a lot of actions around which there is no wiggle room. God cannot tolerate sin with the least degree of allowance.

Thank goodness for the atonement and repentance.

[jdawg1012]

Since "misleading" has more than one meaning, I took it to mean to literally doing something amiss, by a church leader regarding their followers (leading them amiss).

Here are a few from the Bible that I came up with:

Jeremiah 23:
1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the Lord.

Colossians 3:
23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall the reward of the : for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Ezekiel 3:
17 Son of man, I have made thee a awatchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them bwarning from me.
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

Here's a harsh one:

Jeremiah 14:
13 Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, the prophets say unto them, Ye shall not see the asword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.
14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15 Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.

2 Chronicles 36:
11 Zedekiah was one and twenty years old when he began to reign, and reigned eleven years in Jerusalem.
12 And he did that which was evil in the sight of the Lord his God, and humbled not himself before Jeremiah the prophet speaking from the mouth of the Lord.
13 And he also rebelled against king Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God: but he stiffened his neck, and hardened his heart from turning unto the Lord God of Israel.
14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the Lord God of their fathers to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy.

And Finally:

Hosea 4:
6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.
8 They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
9 And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.
10 For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.
11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.
13 They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.
14 I will not punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor your spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves are separated with whores, and they sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that doth not understand shall fall.

I hope that gives you something to work with. I really love the Bible, and the Old Testament, especially. If you're looking for more, I could probably do some searching and come up with some, but I think it really depends on what exactly you're looking for, but that is hopefully a good start.

[TZONE]

Its called being deceived. These are they of the terrestial. Those who had good intentions but were deceived. (read 76). Sorry if I got the kingdom incorrect someone can correct me if its wrong.

I think abinadi and the priests applies directly to your OP.

Mosiah 12:25 And now Abinadi said unto them: Are you priests, and pretend to teach this people, and to understand the spirit of prophesying, and yet desire to know of me what these things mean?

26 I say unto you, wo be unto you for perverting the ways of the Lord! For if ye understand these things ye have not taught them; therefore, ye have perverted the ways of the Lord.

27 Ye have not applied your hearts to understanding; therefore, ye have not been wise. Therefore, what teach ye this people?

28 And they said: We teach the law of Moses.

29 And again he said unto them: If ye teach the law of Moses why do ye not keep it? Why do ye set your hearts upon riches? Why do ye commit whoredoms and spend your strength with harlots, yea, and cause this people to commit sin, that the Lord has cause to send me to prophesy against this people, yea, even a great evil against this people?

30 Know ye not that I speak the truth? Yea, ye know that I speak the truth; and you ought to tremble before God.

31 And it shall come to pass that ye shall be smitten for your iniquities, for ye have said that ye teach the law of Moses. And what know ye concerning the law of Moses? Doth salvation come by the law of Moses? What say ye?

32 And they answered and said that salvation did come by the law of Moses.

33 But now Abinadi said unto them: I know if ye keep the commandments of God ye shall be saved; yea, if ye keep the commandments which the Lord delivered unto Moses in the mount of Sinai, saying:

34 I am the Lord thy God, who hath brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

35 Thou shalt have no other God before me.

36 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing in heaven above, or things which are in the earth beneath.

37 Now Abinadi said unto them, Have ye done all this? I say unto you, Nay, ye have not. And have ye taught this people that they should do all these things? I say unto you, Nay, ye have not.

[Simon]

If someone misleads other people away from God, through good intention, believing they were leading people to God how is that viewed by God? First for the person that was misleading, wouldn't God see in their heart they were trying to lead people to God? For the people being mislead, can they plead ignorance that they thought they were following Gods word/plan?

Joseph Smith taught in D&C 45 and 76 and many other places, that despite the fact that we may be good, kind, and honorable church going people or leaders, if we allow ourselves to be deceived by the craftiness of men and their falsehoods or by false prophets, then we can lose our Celestial standing. It would be even more serious to lead others astray with us.

I believe God holds us accountable for being deceived because if we lived righteously we would have the Holy Spirit as our guide and we would come to see where and how we are being deceived.

This life is a test to see who can be deceived to support or do evil and falsehoods or not, by whether we live righteous enough to have the Holy Spirit and receive the real truth from personal revelation. Truly righteous people have charity and thus can't be deceived (according to Joseph Smith), at least not for long. But without true Charity we are nothing and we are easily deceived but wouldn't know it.

The problem is, most everyone thinks they are righteous and right and have the Spirit of God teaching them, even most of the most wicked.

But I believe it is possible to be righteous with just having the New Testament to follow, for Christ explained all we need to know to become worthy of Exaltation and gain the Holy Spirit as our guide so we can discern all truth from error.

There also have probably been those who have been righteous and weren't deceived by falsehoods, even though they never heard about Christ, because they were born with the light of Christ and followed it, like people in non-christian religions.

A word that also sticks out to me is "all those who TEACH false doctrine".

When you "TEACH", it implies that you "KNOW". When in truth, you "TEACH" because you "BELIEF TO KNOW", you do nothing more than to deceive and to condemn yourselfe and others. No matter how good the intent, such an act is dishonest. You pretend to know.

This is pride


On the other hand, "I BELIEVE" implies "I DONT KNOW", and by that, you are an honest person simply sharing, or discussing your personal opinion. You don't pretent to know

This is humility


In this light, I love Josephs words

I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be tramelled. It dont prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine.

No one of us will always get everything right. The difference makes our pride, or our humility to admit that. Those that accuse and condemn others out of such a reason, are mostly the ones who have not understood truth themselves.


Discussion BELIEVES with an spirit of HUMILITY will have an GREATER BENEFIT to the soul of a man, than to teach TRUTHS, in an spirit of PRIDE


.

[Lilli]

If someone misleads other people away from God, through good intention, believing they were leading people to God how is that viewed by God? First for the person that was misleading, wouldn't God see in their heart they were trying to lead people to God? For the people being mislead, can they plead ignorance that they thought they were following Gods word/plan?

Joseph Smith taught in D&C 45 and 76 and many other places, that despite the fact that we may be good, kind, and honorable church going people or leaders, if we allow ourselves to be deceived by the craftiness of men and their falsehoods or by false prophets, then we can lose our Celestial standing. It would be even more serious to lead others astray with us.

I believe God holds us accountable for being deceived because if we lived righteously we would have the Holy Spirit as our guide and we would come to see where and how we are being deceived.

This life is a test to see who can be deceived to support or do evil and falsehoods or not, by whether we live righteous enough to have the Holy Spirit and receive the real truth from personal revelation. Truly righteous people have charity and thus can't be deceived (according to Joseph Smith), at least not for long. But without true Charity we are nothing and we are easily deceived but wouldn't know it.

The problem is, most everyone thinks they are righteous and right and have the Spirit of God teaching them, even most of the most wicked.

But I believe it is possible to be righteous with just having the New Testament to follow, for Christ explained all we need to know to become worthy of Exaltation and gain the Holy Spirit as our guide so we can discern all truth from error.

There also have probably been those who have been righteous and weren't deceived by falsehoods, even though they never heard about Christ, because they were born with the light of Christ and followed it, like people in non-christian religions.

A word that also sticks out to me is "all those who TEACH false doctrine".

When you "TEACH", it implies that you "KNOW". When in truth, you "TEACH" because you "BELIEF TO KNOW", you do nothing more than to deceive and to condemn yourselfe and others. No matter how good the intent, such an act is dishonest. You pretend to know.

This is pride


On the other hand, "I BELIEVE" implies "I DONT KNOW", and by that, you are an honest person simply sharing, or discussing your personal opinion. You don't pretent to know

This is humility


In this light, I love Josephs words

I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be tramelled. It dont prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine.

No one of us will always get everything right. The difference makes our pride, or our humility to admit that. Those that accuse and condemn others out of such a reason, are mostly the ones who have not understood truth themselves.


Discussion BELIEVES with an spirit of HUMILITY will have an GREATER BENEFIT to the soul of a man, than to teach TRUTHS, in an spirit of PRIDE


.

I agree with you on these things. We must be very careful what we teach others and how we do it. We must make sure we are teaching with love and pure knowledge. But even when people or even prophets teach with love, most people will not feel that love and will still reject the truth.

I agree we must make sure we are using righteous judgement and are righteous ourselves, for we will be judged by the same standard we use for others.

But judge, teach and share we must, for there is no neutral ground. To stay silent or to refuse to judge can be just as bad as speaking falsehoods or judging falsely. For silence, ignorance and refusing to take a stand supports evil and allows it to grow just as much as teaching false doctrine does.

[log]

Speaking of misleading people....

[Simon]

But judge, teach and share we must, for there is no neutral ground. To stay silent or to refuse to judge can be just as bad as speaking falsehoods or judging falsely. For silence, ignorance and refusing to take a stand supports evil and allows it to grow just as much as teaching false doctrine does.

Yes, ignorance gives the devil power, so we have the duty to judge what others teach, but we have to be careful to not mingle judging their teachings, with accusing the teacher. And we need to see the difference between people teaching their false ideas as doctrine, or as merely discussion their believes.

This is why I love Josephs quote so much, we have the right to our own opinion..And we have the right to talk about it. But we should not teach it as long as we don't truely know.

[Lilli]

This is why I love Josephs quote so much, we have the right to our own opinion..And we have the right to talk about it. But we should not teach it as long as we don't truely know.

Yes, I agree. The Lord believes in freedom of speech and thought. Thus, I love Joseph's quote too. I wish more people and leaders in the Church believed it too.

[SmallFarm]

Justice is blind and Mercy cannot rob justice. No matter what we do in ignorance, there will come a time when we will have a perfect knowledge of our transgressions. I believe (but know of no scriptural reference) that we will have a short season at that time to repent for our sins we made out of ignorance, in this life. Even things that none of us know to be sinful.
That is my opinion, and I have a tendency to be wrong, for what it's worth.

[TheLion]

Thank you for the additional reading materials and insights. I have a bit of studying to do and some prayers to make.

I've been stuck in a bit of a quandary for a little while. I feel as if I should start with the OT, not just read it but try to understand it somewhat then move into the NT and do the same. One of the threads that started this wheel spinning in my mind was where there was a discussion on divorce and adultery. Then to read some comments in another thread on bishops encouraging divorce We have people that say it's okay, then others that state it's against Gods word. Such a huge swing in people that are reading the same stuff. Are we changing definitions to suit our lifestyles? Perhaps.

Then we have a situation where Jesus married a former adulterer (my understanding), so there is some level of forgiveness for such a big sin as clearly shown by Jesus himself in his mortal existence (if I understand correctly). It's both very clear and very confusing.

Anyways, grey areas where we accept the words of others could potentially be quite damning or could prove to be areas where we are meant to learn an esoteric meaning and move forward under greater awareness. I have no idea, I'm just a scriptural novice at best.