Perfect People

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Amonhi
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Perfect People

Post by Amonhi »

Examples of people who were perfect in mortality.
Elliaison wrote:Job was perfect as declared by the Lord to Satan:
“And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” – Job 2:3
Seth, the son of Adam was perfect:
D&C 107: 43
“Because he (Seth) was a perfect man, and his likeness was the express likeness of his father, insomuch that he seemed to be like unto his father in all things, and could be distinguished from him only by his age.” – D&C 107:43
Noah was also perfect in his day:
“And thus Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord; for Noah was a just man, and perfect in his generation; and he walked with God, as did also his three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.” – Moses 8:27
It is interesting that this verse also makes reference to walking with God as we learn in D&C 67 that to abide God’s presence we must first become perfect.
“For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.
Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.
Ye are not able to abide the presence of God now, neither the ministering of angels; wherefore, continue in patience until ye are perfected." - D&C 67:11-13
In most scriptures we see that a single person is declared to be perfect, yet in other scriptures, we see that groups of people are declared to be perfect. One such instance is recorded in the New Testament as the Apostle Paul includes himself as perfect while speaking others who he also accepts as being perfect.
“Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.” - Philip. 3:14-15
In another instance, Paul speaks to a group explaining how the wisdom of God which is spoken to the perfect cannot be understood by the wisdom of the world.
“That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:” - 1Cor. 2:5-6
The list of the perfected goes on to include others most notably Christ who also became perfect while living as a mortal.
“So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee.
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” - Heb. 5:5, 8-9
The scriptures also show us the perfection does NOT require us to be resurrected as some suppose. This becomes most clear when we see that there are spirits who have lived and died and have not yet been resurrected that are perfect.
“There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—
For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.” - D&C 129:1-3,6
We too can become perfect right now. It is within our grasp. But to do so, we must know and focus on the right criteria and not be like the rich young man who obeyed the commandments perfectly and yet found he was lacking.
To skip to the end, people define perfection incorrectly. The key to understand what perfection is is given with the commandment to be perfect. Christ teaches and than says "Therefore" because of what I just taught you, "be perfect like your father in heaven is perfect." Christ just told us how God is perfect and invites us to be like God.
Matt. 5:43-48
43 ¶Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye alove them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
3Ne. 12:43-48
43 And behold it is written also, that thou shalt love thy neighbor and hate thine enemy;
44 But behold I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father who is in heaven; for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good.
46 Therefore those things which were of old time, which were under the law, in me are all fulfilled.
47 Old things are done away, and all things have become new.
48 Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in heaven is perfect.

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oneClimbs
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Re: Perfect People

Post by oneClimbs »

Well done. Yes, most of our understandings about what the scriptures are saying are skewed because we have modern, secular understandings of words that meant things much differently then than they do today. We impose our prejudices upon scripture and wrongly accuse them of saying things that they are not saying.

What we think of perfection is far different from what being "perfect IN Christ" means. One of my favorite definitions of the word is "lacking nothing essential". It means "finished, complete" and to be perfect in Christ is what God wants most of all. A perfect person by God's standards is most likely not discernable by the world's standards.

Because we misunderstand the word, we hear people, even in Church saying, "God does not expect us to be perfect". We err in doctrine because we lack faith and our hearts are set too much on the things of this world.

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Simon
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Re: Perfect People

Post by Simon »

Something I noted is that especially within the old testament, we often find the phrase "Be perfect in heart".. We also read "the pure in heart shall see God"

God is perfect, and we are perfect when we do the will of the Father with all our heart, might, mind and strength, with an eye single to the glory of God, and throug the merits of Christs sacrifice.

Few nice scriptures

Moroni 10:32
Yea come unto CHRIST, and be perfected IN HIM.



Hebr.5:9
And being made perfect; He became the author of salvation unto all that obey him

Hebr.10:10/14
By the which will we are sanctified THROUGH the body of JESUS CHRIST once for all..
For by one offering HE HATH PERFECTED for ever them that are sanctified .
Once we are sanctified, have come unto Christ and do continually obey his voice, the Lord will consider us "perfect"


.

Amonhi
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Re: Perfect People

Post by Amonhi »

I also wanted to add that those who meet the will be resurrected with the just because they have been sealed with by the Holy Spirit of promise have been made perfect through the atonement of Jesus Christ.
D&C 76:69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
This can happen in this life or after, but before the resurrection of the dead.

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Simon
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Re: Perfect People

Post by Simon »

Amonhi wrote:
Simon wrote:
Amonhi wrote:They must suffer for themselves. They have fulfilled the atonement and it is no longer available to them.
Who are those to whom the atonement is no longer available? Those that are perfected? Those that are found pure and spotless before the Lord?
Those who have perfect knowledge. Those who are redeemed and already made perfect through Christ.
I believe that no one can ever reach perfection while in this life, the only thing we can reach is perfecion in our heart's and desires. That is why we read within the scriptures.. "the pure of heart shall see God".. While being in this mortality we will always rely upon the atonement.
There are a number of people who have been declared perfect in this life. [/quote]

When I wrote "that no one can ever reach perfection while in this life".. I do not mean that we can not become perfect before he Lord.. what I ment is that once we are perfect in our heart and mind, when we follow the Lord with real intend, he will call us perfect, even if the world would see that differently.. And it is my believe that we can even be called "perfect" even if we are not perfect, but that because of our real intent, the atonement will do the rest. Thats why we are perfect in Christ.

Perfection can mean to be a true follower of God, but still learning.. Or it can mean being God, comprehending all things. Perfect means to be spotless before the Lord.

That's why I believe the atonement is still needed even if we are perfect before the Lord

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