LDS Freedom Forum

I've been reflecting on this a quite a bit.

How does the devil/demons get their power? What source does he/they draw upon to destroy flesh, rage the waters, possess bodies, etc.

From what I understand, Heavenly Father receives his power through glory (those who worship him) and light (which dispells the dark and fear). The more I read, I'm coming to understand that fear fuels evil (i.e. Moses and Satan, the scriptures that talk about perfect love casts away all fear, JS int he garden (it seemed that as evil drew near he began to fear thus making it possible for him to become destroyed)).

This also leads to how real magic is performed. Let's look at the wizards in the court of pharoah. They were able to perform duplicates of HF's miracles except for one (having the snake eat the other snakes). So what power source, portal, energy field, dimension creates the power for evil to manipulate matter. I think sometimes, the devil may be given an allowance to manipulate certain things from HF (i.e. cause this earthquake here), but he seems to have an overwhelming power that he holds - but how does he have it, where does he get that power from. Does us having fear cause that to grow? Many questions that I'm curious about as maybe somewhere in the darkest corners of the universe is the opposite of light for which evil creatures tap into. This is interesting as what is then "evil" is it a collection of negative energy, different frequencies that are in discord with light, etc

Would love any input, thoughts on this.

Have you read "Conquering Spiritual Evil" by Douglas Mendenhall? That may answer and raise some great questions. Get it at Confettibooks.com

Anyways, seek for an answer from Father if you are to read it. One of the best books I have read.

I was told after seeking an answer about the book that it is to be considered scripture for me personally.

I really like your questions.

Last night I read 2 Nephi 24 and Isaiah 14, and also reflected back to when a Seventy visited my mission about this topic.

Satan has absolutely NO power whatsoever, save the power which we give him through our sinful deeds. He has no body, nor will he ever have one. As such, he has no offspring, no way of progressing, given that he fell from grace the moment he rebelled against God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Why will the Millennium and Zion be of peace? Satan will be bound in such a way as to have absolutely no power over the hearts of men, because the men won't give Satan the time of day that he enjoys now.

Satan only has as much power as what we give him. He is dependent on the sins of man for his power.

It may not be considered power, but Satan can and does have the right to tempt us, because otherwise, we cannot be tested in all things. His temptations cause us to pause and think of ways to follow them, and unless our faith in Christ is sufficient enough and our resolve to keep the commandments strong...we are apt to fulfill the promptings. Why? Because we are carnal and devilish in the first place due to Adam's fall. The more we lean toward Satan's temptations the less spiritual we become until he, Satan, has wrapped his chains around us and dragged us to hell.
This is why repentance is an ongoing thing. We must allow the Atonement to cleanse us on a regular basis through prayer, having a broken heart and contrite spirit, and real intent. God does not accept wooden nickles.
Read how Nephi, the son of Lehi felt, and he was a prophet. There are some great things to learn from him. See how many lessons can be found in this scripture. What are they?

2 Nephi 4:18
17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?
32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.

samizdat wrote:Last night I read 2 Nephi 24 and Isaiah 14, and also reflected back to when a Seventy visited my mission about this topic.

Satan has absolutely NO power whatsoever, save the power which we give him through our sinful deeds. He has no body, nor will he ever have one. As such, he has no offspring, no way of progressing, given that he fell from grace the moment he rebelled against God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Why will the Millennium and Zion be of peace? Satan will be bound in such a way as to have absolutely no power over the hearts of men, because the men won't give Satan the time of day that he enjoys now.

Satan only has as much power as what we give him. He is dependent on the sins of man for his power.

Samizdat, I do not speak to criticize you. What I say here I say to all.
I have been taught some very different things about the characteristics of Satan. I wouldn' take the 70's word and call it a sure understanding, neither would I call my own. Father is still teaching me much on this subject. Go to Father as a hollow vessel, without any pre-conceived notions and ask Him what is truth. I am convinced through experience that there are many things which you and I call truth which are false traditions of our fathers concerning Satan. There are characteristics in scripture which are veiled about Satan which can only be dug out if we are humble, hollow, and truly seeking.

My thoughts (with love/no criticism)
Anthony

Another thing, it isn't always because of sin which gives him power. Remember Job. It wasn't until he was thoroughly tested when God gave Satan power to tempt him and sorely hurt his body. We should all expect the same treatment in some sorts if we expect to inherit the same heaven as Job. He sacrificed all things unto God. Job was a righteous man, and yet still had to suffer the pains at the hands of Satan.

I take this stance. How am I to receive the same glory as Abraham, Enoch, Nephi, Job, etc... if I don't go through the fire as they were commanded to? It is my thought that I have no place to think I can inherit their level of glory of if I don't experience the same.

As we see a person growing in knowledge and understanding from Father, Satan WILL have equal time with that person.

My story... 3 years ago my body was fit. My back was healthy, my shoulders pain free. Since I started to ask Father for real truth, as it has been given the adversary has also been given time with me. As I learn more, the more pain I am in. Opposition in all things. This is my walk, my curriculum, yours may be different.

Sorry for the long post
Anthony

PRAISE GOD IN ALL THINGS. And he will bless you.

If faith is power, not belief alone, and doing good makes it easier to tap into this faith energy then, as in all things there must be opposition, doesn't it make sense there is something akin to dark faith?

AnthonyR wrote:Another thing, it isn't always because of sin which gives him power. Remember Job. It wasn't until he was thoroughly tested when God gave Satan power to tempt him and sorely hurt his body. We should all expect the same treatment in some sorts if we expect to inherit the same heaven as Job. He sacrificed all things unto God. Job was a righteous man, and yet still had to suffer the pains at the hands of Satan.

I take this stance. How am I to receive the same glory as Abraham, Enoch, Nephi, Job, etc... if I don't go through the fire as they were commanded to? It is my thought that I have no place to think I can inherit their level of glory of if I don't experience the same.

As we see a person growing in knowledge and understanding from Father, Satan WILL have equal time with that person.

My story... 3 years ago my body was fit. My back was healthy, my shoulders pain free. Since I started to ask Father for real truth, as it has been given the adversary has also been given time with me. As I learn more, the more pain I am in. Opposition in all things. This is my walk, my curriculum, yours may be different.

Sorry for the long post
Anthony

PRAISE GOD IN ALL THINGS. And he will bless you.

Somewhat relatable. When I was not a member of the church, the temptations I felt were miniscule in comparison to the kind of opposition I experienced after, and even today. I am not so sure about equal in time, but Satan's efforts to lead said person astray will increase in proportion to the glory and understanding a person gains. God wins out over Satan if he is truly sought out, and if a contest occurs between the two. Moses' serpent easily devoured the two sorcerers' serpents. The Egyptian sorcerers were rendered unclean in Egyptian ritual traditions and unable to raise a hand against God because they were stricken with disease. You can also read the first vision, Satan tried really hard to make JSJr. give up before the Vision happened. He also tried likewise with Moses as well.