LDS Freedom Forum

To avoid derailing another topic further, I though I would discuss this here:

Amonhi wrote:

log wrote:

Amonhi wrote: My assumption is that Lehi received the priesthood in one of his many visions, revelations or angel experiences which may or may not be detailed in the Book of Lehi.

And here, I must quote something directly relevant.

Study the word of God, and preach it and not your opinions, for no man’s opinion is worth a straw. Advance no principle but what you can prove, for one scriptural proof is worth ten thousand opinions. - First Presidency

I find that advice to be irrelevant. Relying on scriptural proof is a limited and faulty plan. Look at the number of churches that have been created basing their beliefs on infallible scripture and proving there teachings by the word of God using the logic of men.

The opinions of a prophet are worth considering...

Alma 40:20 - 20 Now, my son, I do not say that their resurrection cometh at the resurrection of Christ; but behold, I give it as my opinion, that the souls and the bodies are reunited, of the righteous, at the resurrection of Christ, and his ascension into heaven.

Yes, I am a prophet.

log wrote:So were the men who said "no man's opinion is worth a straw."

Amonhi wrote:Absolutely! The quorum of the twelve that wrote that are prophets and should be considered. But you also shouldn't hold on to bad ideas and philosophies just because a prophet said them. Consider them "yes", accept them blindly without question, intelligence and the witness of the spirit, "no". Myself included...

Here is the problem I have with the concept. You can prove almost anything by the scriptures. And so many of them are just dead wrong. So to attempt to prove something or to expect others to accept it just because it is in the scriptures or just because some leader said it is to attempt to maintain power and influence by virtual of the priesthood these men held and their position in the priesthood. It doesn't take into account whether the scripture is true or correct or the Prophet was correct. It doesn't take into account any persuasion whereby a person considers it for themselves and decides if there is intelligence in the matter. It just means that if you find a scripture or a prophet's quote that agrees with you then you expect others to obey, believe, etc.

If we, for example, believe that we should prove things by the scriptures, that the scriptures are infallible and anyone that disagreed with the scriptures was expressing an opinion worth straw, and in the mouth of two or three witnesses every words shall be established, then based on these criteria/rules of faith, we must conclude that women should NOT teach in church settings or have authority over men.

"As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches." (1 Cor. 14:34)

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man." (1 Tim. 2:12-14)

If we are to prove everything by the scriptures, then, we might just as well shave all our women's heads.

"If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off." (1 Cor. 11:6)

And although at times we might agree with the following inspired statement, I don't think we should follow its advice:

Psalm 137:9 - “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

I am sure we could come up with hundreds of such scriptures spoken by prophets. And I am sure that we can discount and dismiss all of them too. Contrary to common teachings, it is kind of like a buffet were we go about picking and choosing what we believe based on what the spirit tells us based on our own level of progression and preparedness.

And, the scriptures do contradict because they are written by and for people who are at different levels of progression. Some people are Servants and some are Sons and some are Friends. So, all these view points are supported by the scriptures depending on who is speaking at the time and where they are in their progression. So, we can find in the scriptures whatever we need to progress from where we are.

For example, the atonement is essential if you are progressing through the law, until the law is fulfilled and you receive your C&E. Then after that, you can't go back to the atonement and repentance through Christ's suffering without assenting to his death and putting him to an open shame.

So, a person speaking to us from under the law and under the power of the atonement would say something like,

And moreover, I say unto you, that there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent. - Mosiah 3:17

And someone who had fulfilled the law and the atonement might say,

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God fresh, and put him to an open shame." Heb. 6:1-6

So, if we are under the law, it is in our best interest to be like the Nephites who lived the Law of Moses/Lower Law and yet knew that it would be fulfilled at some point and that until it was fulfilled they would continue to do as they was right for them and where they had progressed:

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments. - 2Ne.25:24-25

log wrote:I wholeheartedly agree with the First Presidency (and some of the Q12) that no man's opinion is worth a straw, even if that man is a prophet; to think otherwise is to make oneself a respecter of men. Knowledge is the only thing that counts.

Then we are unable to correct the false teachings found in scripture because even modern prophets cannot teach correct principles when they conflict with scripture.

I believe the correct solution to this problem is to consider all teachings and let the spirit help you to determine which is true and which is not. I also believe that we should allow others to maintain power and influence over us by persuasion rather than priesthood position and that ultimately no power or influence can or ought to be maintained in our lives except by persuasion. That when a person is truly persuaded that they are following their own conscience and agency and not a prophet, be they living or dead, canonized in scripture or not. In this way we remain free and agents to our own conscience rather than spiritual slaves of men.

To put it as bluntly as possible, neither your opinions, nor your beliefs, are a valid corrective to scripture, nor to the opinions or beliefs of others. Only knowledge counts.

That is why it is truly said "No man's opinion is worth a straw."

And there is no point to trying to persuade someone else to adopt your opinions or your beliefs, which, collectively, may profitably be termed "philosophies". That is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge.

So true, when we try to convince ourselves of something, or beieve something, we can always find something to back it up. Than our "feelings" will always testify they are true when the spirit, may have said otherwise, but we through our feelings think the spirit is testifying of truth, but of everytime we think of another pardigm we get confusion, discomfort, uncertainty, something conrary to "what has been revealed" this is why we must become as a child and accept all things, believe ALL things.

You can prove almost anything by the scriptures.

Agreed! ....Does this mean that I am held accountable for the way that I interpret them?

I believe the correct solution to this problem is to consider all teachings and let the spirit help you to determine which is true and which is not.

I have been pondering this lately. Plant all the seeds and see if they grow. I think I would rather unknowingly accept a teaching of Satan, than unknowingly reject a teaching from God.

This puts the responsibility on MY head. Which just happens to be the only head I have any control over...

Exactly cookie, Mmmm cookies, the more light we receive the greater the ability to recognize how God wants us to interpret them. Not how we interpret them. Or has been handed down to us by the traditions of our fathers who could not remove those stakes of casting off unbelief or false interpretations. (paraphrasing JS) Lot of the time that is caused because we never question those beliefs because our father told us, or the church's manual has said it so it must be true. Entirely.

TZONE wrote:Exactly cookie, Mmmm cookies,

:))

TZONE wrote:the more light we receive the greater the ability to recognize how God wants us to interpret them. Not how we interpret them.

Oh yeah! One of my favorite "snuffnuggets" - "Scripture is not something for "private interpretation," but can only be unlocked through the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1: 20; see also JS-H 1: 74.) The meaning belongs to, and is controlled by God."

Cookies wrote:

You can prove almost anything by the scriptures.

Agreed! ....Does this mean that I am held accountable for the way that I interpret them?

I believe the correct solution to this problem is to consider all teachings and let the spirit help you to determine which is true and which is not.

I have been pondering this lately. Plant all the seeds and see if they grow. I think I would rather unknowingly accept a teaching of Satan, then unknowingly reject a teaching from God.

This puts the responsibility on MY head. Which just happens to be the only head I have any control over...

YES!!! Take responsibility for your salvation/exaltation. Put oil in your own lamp to light your way. you cannot rely on the oil of others and expect to make it to CK/God.

Do we really "believe ALL things" like our articles of faith profess? I wonder if that is just lip service for some people?

I agree, I would rather believe one of Satan's lies now and be open to accepting the truth when it comes because I believe all things than to believe one of Satan's lies now and be closed to the truth because it goes against what I already believe. This is a huge key to progression. We are not expected to get everything right up front. Actually we are expected to get things wrong. This is part of the plan. And while we unknowingly have accepted Satan's lies, we are covered by the atonement and not held accountable for the misinformation. The Sin, as it were, is on the head of Satan for teaching us incorrectly. When we discover the truth because we are progressing, then we let go of the lie and move on. It is the ONLY way to ensure you are not stuck in the lie forever. Believe all things!!!

Well said Cookies!!
Amonhi

log wrote:And there is no point to trying to persuade someone else to adopt your opinions or your beliefs, which, collectively, may profitably be termed "philosophies".

No power or influence can or ought to be maintain any other way than persuasion. Any other way is not of God.

That is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge.

Please do tell, do you believe that women should not teach in church as the scriptures so adamantly teach or do you believe these to be the philosophies of men mingled with scripture?

As I pointed out in my quotes starting this thread, even the scriptures teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. You and I do, every member of the church does including the prophet/president. Scripture is not determined by what is written in a book or who said it. It is determined by what the spirit ratifies as truth. It can come from anyone. As not all information written in the canonized books we call scriptures IS scripture, we must read it and understand it by the spirit so that we can separate the "philosophies of men" that is mingled with the true scriptures in the canonized books.

The ONLY way to know scripture is by the Holy Ghost. And, what is scripture for you may not be scripture for another based on their progression and situation in life.

Amonhi

TZONE wrote:So true, when we try to convince ourselves of something, or beieve something, we can always find something to back it up. Than our "feelings" will always testify they are true when the spirit, may have said otherwise, but we through our feelings think the spirit is testifying of truth, but of everytime we think of another pardigm we get confusion, discomfort, uncertainty, something conrary to "what has been revealed" this is why we must become as a child and accept all things, believe ALL things.

TYesd, not only can we find something in scripture to back up our beliefs but our brain is hard wired to ONLY see those things which support our views on life. We must actively let go of our own views and consider the views of others to even understand what they are saying. If we do not, we are blind to it. When we read the scriptures, we have to ask, "what is this saying", not "what do I want this to say." And be open to the fact that it may not agree with me or my beliefs, the church etc. Then, once we can see clearly, we are able to determine by reason and the spirit if it is true or not or in which circumstances it is true.

Thank you, I agree.
Amonhi

Amonhi wrote:

log wrote:And there is no point to trying to persuade someone else to adopt your opinions or your beliefs, which, collectively, may profitably be termed "philosophies".

No power or influence can or ought to be maintain any other way than persuasion. Any other way is not of God.

So, is it of God to persuade others to partake of your philosophies, mingled with scripture?

That is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge.

Please do tell, do you believe that women should not teach in church as the scriptures so adamantly teach or do you believe these to be the philosophies of men mingled with scripture?

It's been duly canonized, whether we abide it or not.

As I pointed out in my quotes starting this thread, even the scriptures teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

You did assert that, I believe.

You and I do, every member of the church does including the prophet/president.

That remains to be proven.

Scripture is not determined by what is written in a book or who said it.

Apparently, scripture is determined by who said it.

It can come from anyone.

Except Satan, right?

As not all information written in the canonized books we call scriptures IS scripture....

That still remains to be proven. Your disagreement does not proof constitute.

The ONLY way to know scripture is by the Holy Ghost.

Ayup.

And, what is scripture for you may not be scripture for another based on their progression and situation in life.

This is actually incoherent, given that if the Holy Ghost says it, it's scripture, full stop.

The iron rod is the word of God. What is the word of God? The sciptures, the prophets, our own revelations or all three together? The iron rod consists of all three. If we use only one we will get off the path. Using only scriptures will make us fail, but without reading the scriptures and learning about prayer, fatih e.t.c. we most probably won't reveice any revelations. Words in the scripture will help us, Christ, the Word, will save us. Giving heed to THE WORD might be more important to simply give heed to the words.

How curious.

Psalm 137
1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.

3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.

4 How shall we sing the Lord’s song in a strange land?

5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.

6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

7 Remember, O Lord, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.

8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.

9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

D&C 86
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants, concerning the parable of the wheat and of the tares:

2 Behold, verily I say, the field was the world, and the apostles were the sowers of the seed;

3 And after they have fallen asleep the great persecutor of the church, the apostate, the whore, even Babylon, that maketh all nations to drink of her cup, in whose hearts the enemy, even Satan, sitteth to reign—behold he soweth the tares; wherefore, the tares choke the wheat and drive the church into the wilderness.

4 But behold, in the last days, even now while the Lord is beginning to bring forth the word, and the blade is springing up and is yet tender—

5 Behold, verily I say unto you, the angels are crying unto the Lord day and night, who are ready and waiting to be sent forth to reap down the fields;

6 But the Lord saith unto them, pluck not up the tares while the blade is yet tender (for verily your faith is weak), lest you destroy the wheat also.

7 Therefore, let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest is fully ripe; then ye shall first gather out the wheat from among the tares, and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and lo, the tares are bound in bundles, and the field remaineth to be burned.

I daresay the angels, who are crying to be allowed to dash the children of Babylon against the stones, would rejoice in so doing.

log wrote:

Amonhi wrote:

log wrote:And there is no point to trying to persuade someone else to adopt your opinions or your beliefs, which, collectively, may profitably be termed "philosophies".

No power or influence can or ought to be maintain any other way than persuasion. Any other way is not of God.

So, is it of God to persuade others to partake of your philosophies, mingled with scripture?

LOL, of course, with the understanding that I am teaching the philosophies of men mingled with scripture and their job is to find the scripture part, just as they must do with the canonized scriptures or any other good book or good talk. There is no book, scripture included, ensign magazine or any talk, preacher or teach that is exempt from this process. They all have the philosophies of men mingled with scripture and we must sort it out for ourselves. Even the Book of Mormon was declared "the most Correct Book" at the time of its publishing. This does not mean that it is entirely correct or perfectly correct, just that it has more scripture than the other books. But it is not exempt from the philosophies of men.

That is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge.

Neither are angels exempt from teaching the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, even if they are Peter, James and John. We are to learn ALL things by the power of the Holy Ghost and not by miracles, angels, prophets, etc.

For that matter, why was Adam looking for messengers from his Father? Did he have a wall between him and God that he couldn't get over or around too? Why couldn't he just overcome the wall for himself and talk to God like we require every new convert and baby to the gospel to do when we invite them to gain a testimony of Jesus Christ, the church and book of Mormon prior to joining the Church? Could it be that he was making mistakes that we make as we learn and grow and that maybe we should learn to avoid, like praying with our mouths and not our hearts using vain repetitions?!? Like when he gave us the most perfect example of the wrong way to pray?!? (Something to think about...) And isn't it interesting how in the old ceremony we as the audience were the ones listening to Satan teach through the preacher from the pulpit and singing the hymns? Could it be that we are the ones in the congregation listening to the philosophies of men mingled with scripture as they come from the pulpit every Sunday and even in General Conference?

Please do tell, do you believe that women should not teach in church as the scriptures so adamantly teach or do you believe these to be the philosophies of men mingled with scripture?

It's been duly canonized, whether we abide it or not.

That it has, but I give it no credit because I know for myself better. I have met heavenly mother and know her role and also know that these doctrines were contrived by the social norms of the time which also caused the people to reject the Scriptures written by women like the Gospel according to Mary Magdalene. And also cause the apostles to be jealous of Jesus's relationship with Mary and to reject much of the doctrine that he was able to teach Mary, Thomas and others. All this because the apostles and even Peter believed the philosophies of men mingled and so mingled them with scripture.

You and I do, every member of the church does including the prophet/president.

That remains to be proven.

What proof would you accept? I have given various examples in this and other threads in the few days that I have been back. Even Christ is not exempt from this. Or he does not hold himself exempt. he taught:

John 12:47 - 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Scripture is not determined by what is written in a book or who said it.

Apparently, scripture is determined by who said it.

Well, you quoted a scripture that is talking about missionaries speaking by the power of the holy Ghost which makes it scripture. So, I accept that missionaries can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost and it is binding scripture, I can also accept children speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost and it is binding scripture. I can also accept the bum on the street speaking by the power of the Holy ghost and I will recognize it as scripture. Even the protestant can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost and it is scripture that I accept. It does not matter who speaks by the power of the holy Ghost, if the Holy ghost carries the message to my heart then I know it is scripture and accept it as such.

It can come from anyone.

Except Satan, right?

To quote John Taylor,

A man in search of truth has no peculiar system to sustain, no peculiar dogma to defend or theory to uphold. He embraces all truth, and that truth, like the sun in the firmament, shines forth and spreads its effulgent rays over all creation. If men will divest themselves of bias and prejudice, and prayerfully and conscientiously search after truth, they will find it wherever they turn their attention.
...
There is no man nor set of men who have pointed out the pathway for our feet to travel in, in relation to these matters. There are no dogmas nor theories extant in the world that we profess to listen to, unless they can be verified by the principles of eternal truth. We carefully scan, investigate, criticize, and examine everything that presents itself to our view, and so far as we are enabled to comprehend any truths in existence, we gladly hail them as part and portion of the system with which we are associated.

If there is any truth in heaven, earth, or hell, I want to embrace it; I care not what shape it comes in to me, who brings it, or who believes in it; whether it is popular or unpopular, truth, eternal truth, I wish to float in and enjoy." - "Chapter 23: Eternal Truth," Teachings of Presidents of the Church: John Taylor, 209

Some say the devil will teach 999 truths to get you to believe one lie. I don't believe that the father of lies can do that, but if he could, those would be better odds that we get in church.

Interesting thoughts I think,
Peace,
Amonhi

log wrote:I daresay the angels, who are crying to be allowed to dash the children of Babylon against the stones, would rejoice in so doing.

Are you saying that you condone hurting others who are considered the children of babylon? Because the are wicked?

John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So, I am thinking not.

Could it be that we are the ones in the congregation listening to the philosophies of men mingled with scripture as they come from the pulpit every Sunday and even in General Conference?

Why do you think I said, "that is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge."?

Are you saying that you condone hurting others who are considered the children of babylon? Because the are wicked?

I am saying you have wrested the scriptures.

Simon wrote:The iron rod is the word of God. What is the word of God? The sciptures, the prophets, our own revelations or all three together? The iron rod consists of all three. If we use only one we will get off the path. Using only scriptures will make us fail, but without reading the scriptures and learning about prayer, fatih e.t.c. we most probably won't reveice any revelations. Words in the scripture will help us, Christ, the Word, will save us. Giving heed to THE WORD might be more important to simply give heed to the words.

Thanks for your comments Simon! Yes, use all three and any good book or good source.

I will also point out that Lehi got to the tree without holding to the rod at all but by mighty prayer which dispelled the darkness around him so he could see.

Good points,
Amonhi

BTW log, I appreciate you having this discussion with me. I also appreciate others comments and thoughts. Thank you all!

log wrote:

John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So, I am thinking not.

Great quote! Thanks!

Could it be that we are the ones in the congregation listening to the philosophies of men mingled with scripture as they come from the pulpit every Sunday and even in General Conference?

Why do you think I said, "that is how the philosophies of men get mingled with scripture, and that is why Adam ignores all religious teachers in preference to true messengers, sent from the presence of the Father, who will give him knowledge."?

My point is was that even true messengers are not to be believed without question. They can and do also teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Looking for messengers from father is not as effective as talking to God directly.

Are you saying that you condone hurting others who are considered the children of babylon? Because they are wicked?

I am saying you have wrested the scriptures.[/quote]
My point was that men through the ages have condoned the slaughter of the wicked using verses like this where the angels think wicked people should be wiped off the earth. Someone might read this and condone killing the children of Babylon. (It has been done many times...) But because the scriptures talk about doing it and show having done it, it doesn't mean that we should follow suit and do the same. Even Cain, the wicked Son of Perdition was protected by God to live the life he chose. And yet throughout history people have used the scriptures to justify the killing of Telestial people because the scriptures condone it over and over.

My point stands that the Canonized scriptures should not go unchecked or be used to prove doctrine, action we should take. They should be planted in fertile soil to see what grows and what does not. They should not be used as proofs, but as evidence or reason to believe.

Amonhi wrote:
My point is was that even true messengers are not to be believed without question. They can and do also teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Looking for messengers from father is not as effective as talking to God directly.

The one necessarily leads to the other, if the endowments are to be believed.

My point stands that the Canonized scriptures should not go unchecked or be used to prove doctrine, action we should take. They should be planted in fertile soil to see what grows and what does not. They should not be used as proofs, but as evidence or reason to believe.

proof  
noun
1.evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

Amonhi wrote: I have met heavenly mother and know her role ....

.....Are you going to leave us hanging?

I would think other reasons you could not always prove things by the scriptures, is because as time has passed they have been altered, and changed...

Another would be if there was a misunderstanding during the process of receiving revelation or adding to it when it has not been clearly understood...

And also at the times of Joseph the religions that he attended all taught from the same book...

Other things that would effect would be how we relate the scriptures to ourselves, we all understand and interpret scripture according to our culture, upbringing, traditions....etc

So I agree it that the holy ghost takes precedence and that would be different depending on where you are....

I guess we are apt to make idols of just about anything from prophets to written scripture....it would not be the same as what God would tell you right now... to you personally according to where you are....

My belief regarding the OP--scriptures are evidence. Proof is in personal revelation. Only God can prove anything to each of us individually when we hear His voice and especially when we part the veil and know Him. Trying to prove anything with scripture is not proving at all. It is, however, witnessing. But it is someone else's witness. Get your own!

Over twenty years ago, on my mission in Germany, I was confronted by many evangelists, Jehovah Witnesses and other Christians asking to "show me where it says that in the Bible." It accomplished nothing.

Cookies wrote:

Amonhi wrote: I have met heavenly mother and know her role ....

.....Are you going to leave us hanging?

LOL, well, what can I say? She embodies Wisdom like the Father embodies Power and the Son embodies Love. She is not hidding in the back ground as some think, but we (Men specifically not the women), have put her in a closet as it were and are not ready to let her out. When we do, we will understand the Woman's eternal role as our equal and partner. We will realize the wisdom that our wife is capable of by virtue of her gender and we will learn to counsel with her as a most valuable resource. We, men will stop "Lording" over our women and treat her like the Goddess she is, patterned after the image of our Heavenly mother. Oh, and she likes to talk with us. We are like kids that go to college and only call home to talk with Dad. They are ultimately ONE, but she does like to be acknowledged. Remember in the scriptures where God says, God is a jealous God, that largely comes from her influence. "After all I have done and they treat me like I don't exist."

Does that help?
Amonhi

I agree, thank you for listing other reasons...

elijahsson wrote:I would think other reasons you could not always prove things by the scriptures, is because as time has passed they have been altered, and changed...

Another would be if there was a misunderstanding during the process of receiving revelation or adding to it when it has not been clearly understood...

And also at the times of Joseph the religions that he attended all taught from the same book...

Other things that would effect would be how we relate the scriptures to ourselves, we all understand and interpret scripture according to our culture, upbringing, traditions....etc

So I agree it that the holy ghost takes precedence and that would be different depending on where you are....

I guess we are apt to make idols of just about anything from prophets to written scripture....it would not be the same as what God would tell you right now... to you personally according to where you are....

coachmarc wrote:My belief regarding the OP--scriptures are evidence. Proof is in personal revelation. Only God can prove anything to each of us individually when we hear His voice and especially when we part the veil and know Him. Trying to prove anything with scripture is not proving at all. It is, however, witnessing. But it is someone else's witness. Get your own!

lol, yes, get your own witness.