It seems you have concentrated on this more than I have. Once I figured out this truth I have not done much more than run into things as I study other areas. I see it every where now.Berrett wrote:I have not read all of the posts
President J. Smith, Jr. then spoke as to appointing a Patriarch and other matters connected with the well being of the church. Having now got through the business matters, the President proceeded to give instructions to the Elders respecting preaching the gospel, and pressed upon them the necessity of getting the spirit, so that they might preach with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, to be careful in speaking on those subjects which are not clearly pointed out in the word of God, which lead to speculation and strife. - WoJS, p. 31
There never should be any mocking for differences in believes,or we are no better than any other religious group.onandagus wrote:Most who believe in mmps see no contradiction in what Joseph told Matthias the Jewish Minister.
The ideas that eternal life is the transmigration of souls from father to son, that Robert Matthews contained the souls of his fathers including Matthias the apostle, and that Matthews was God/Christ are all clearly corrupt and false ideas. Matthews was a con man who duped rich men into giving him money and deeds to farms in exchange for rewards in heaven. One of his victims ended up dead. Although acquitted of murdering Elijah Pierson, Joseph expresses his belief that Matthews was a murderer not in possession of the Soul of Christ or Spirit of truth but a wicked and depraved spirit.
Belief in mmps does not contradict scripture, only ones interpretation or beliefs about what the scriptures say. There are many mysteries and truths not overtly taught in our standard works, of which we only have a small portion of scripture that has been given to man.
It is the spirit which will teach us the truth of all things, not the scriptures. The spirit has told me the Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet. I have friends and family that believe the spirit gave them a different answer. I believe the spirit can only teach us what we are ready to receive. When the student is ready the master will appear. Line upon line. Otherwise our feelings will reject what makes us uncomfortable and only validate our existing beliefs.
When I was younger I did not believe in mmps the spirit has since confirmed the truth on the concept to me. For those that have received a different answer or do not believe please do not mock those that do.
cayenne wrote:thus far i have stayed out of this mess
the spirit has confirmed to me in years past after studying MMP how false it is. Frankly it is tiring hearing all these people (maybe the same person with different alias's) talk about how MMP is truth and they know this from unlocking the secrets of the scriptures that most cannot see.
The scriptures work very simply. Here is an symbolic example….1+1=2…. 2+2=4 and so on. Yes there is deeper knowledge to be had in scripture, but it operates on the same principles. I happen to know a lot of so called deeper doctrines in scripture. I know things like 100 + 199 = 299…..if you will notice the math is the same, built on the Same foundation and building up from there. There is not any secret knowledge buried hidden in scripture that contradicts the basics, and the intermediates. The advanced fits perfectly with all the other stuff.
By the spirit MMP makes me sick. It is wrong, inefficient, it denies the atonement, it favors those who love this life and want to come back for more, it denies numerous scriptures, and it denies God's foreknowledge of how pre-destiny and agency work together in ways that most humans can not even begin to grasp.
I will not be commenting more on this thread, it is a waste of time since those who promote false doctrine are steeped in it and will not listen to the basics, or the intermediates of scripture as they have tainted themselves and moved onto advanced falseness. JJ Dewey, is that you?
I don't really have an opinion on this, I remain open to all possibilities. For the most part, I agree with Log's original assertion, that you don't really find much/any explicit/direct teaching of MMP in scripture. But this post stopped being about that assertion a long time ago. I do however remain open to the idea and am studying it out.RaVaN wrote:And I would say that MMP in all it's forms as discussed here and other places is the devil's counterfeit of God's plan of salvation.
"8 And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God—he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted."(2 Nephi 28:8-11)
This is what MMP teaches and the result of that teaching. Call it reincarnation, call it transmigration of the soul, call it MMP, or whatever. The result is the same, it denies Christ as our savior and denies the plan of salvation as repeatedly outlined throughout the Scriptures. The plan of salvation is plainly outlined in the scriptures. It covers all the eventualities. It states rewards and punishments for those that hear. A person can't even just cherry-pick to support MMP without denying the entirety of the scriptures. It is all there clear and plain.
The most insidious thing about MMP that makes it the worst, is that rather than focusing on THIS life, and THIS world...it makes those that listen to it ignore the short time we have and not strive to serve God because they can always catch the next turn around the wheel and do it right. A eternity of sin, wickedness, and because there's always tomorrow.
Look at the posts in this thread and people are saying exactly that. It's flat out reincarnation with a Mormon twist. I have seen these same arguments made by many so-called Christians that is so steeped in eastern mysticism that results in New Age lies and unbelief. It is all based in speculation with no foundation in the scriptures as seen by this thread.
I think I should bow out of this, rather than continue into contention. I never intended to even read this thread in the first place, but I was looking for something else, and once I started to read I was horrified to my very soul that there are those that believe and try to teach this as truth, and worse some who seem to be listening. In the end, I suggest people reread the Words of God and judge for themselves whether or not this steals the Glory of God, denies Jesus Christ as our savior, as well as being in complete opposition of the plan of Salvation as laid out PLAINLY in the Scriptures.
If I have offended, I ask forgiveness for my tone but not for speaking against something that should be plain to all in the Restoration as a false teaching.
). And I was thinking about Joseph's statements that it would be foolish and vain of us to think that we could inherit the same glory as the Fathers (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.) if we weren't willing to offer a sacrifice equal to their own. 
I totally understand our point of view. The first time I heard about MMP's I thought excactly the same and what I can say very clearly is that I am not a defender of MMP's. All those who believe that it works excactly the way we find it in the scriptures, and how you explained it, do it right. They do it right because they focus on this life. And even if MMP's were true, there truely would be a reason it is not mentioned within the scriptures.RaVaN wrote:
The most insidious thing about MMP that makes it the worst, is that rather than focusing on THIS life, and THIS world...it makes those that listen to it ignore the short time we have and not strive to serve God because they can always catch the next turn around the wheel and do it right. A eternity of sin, wickedness, and because there's always tomorrow.
President J. Smith, Jr. then spoke as to appointing a Patriarch and other matters connected with the well being of the church. Having now got through the business matters, the President proceeded to give instructions to the Elders respecting preaching the gospel, and pressed upon them the necessity of getting the spirit, so that they might preach with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven, to be careful in speaking on those subjects which are not clearly pointed out in the word of God, which lead to speculation and strife. - WoJS, p. 31
All I can say is, trust your experiences, this is what matters most. If MMP's are true, and the Lord wants us to know about it, nothing can prevent that from happening. If it does not happen we simply don't need such knowledge for our salvation. There are much more important things for us to learn about.shestalou wrote:Thanks Simon for explaining some things, I have had deep spiritual experiences that does not include that doctrine at all and I know they were great, but all I can say is I cant judge anyone else but that doctrine seems way out there.
