Priesthood can raise the dead? Is this true?

[Amonhi]

PH and a level of worthiness is needed.

I know a bishop who was having an affair for over a year before he was caught and released. He performed many ordinances, blessings and judgments of others during that time. He undertook to hide his sins which according to the oath and covenant of the priesthood is an automatic "amen to your priesthood".

37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.- D&C 121:37

The church did not redo a single ordinance that he performed. All of his work during that time was accepted by the church.

How much authority do you think a PH needs to perform ordinances? How much worthiness is required of a PH for the church to accept it?

I know another gentle man who stays in the church for his families sake but has no testimony of the church or of God. He knowingly lives as an active member outwardly, but in his heart he is lying to the world for the sake of his family. He is afraid that he will lose them if they find out. He has performed the baptisms for their children. If he was discovered, the church would not redo any of his children's ordinances. Why would they? The ordinance of baptism is part of the Law of Moses and is a dead work and it isn't really the gate by which we are to enter. It is a symbol of the gate...

2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.

Don't be so hasty to judge, it shows a lack of understanding that they are baptised without faith. The Scriptures teach that repenting and being worthy of baptism is sufficient faith to be baptised, and the PH holder performing the baptism living worthy show faith - it is impossible to live worthy to that level without faith.

You are right that faith is a part of the process and that it doesn't take mountains of it to be accepted and receive confirmations. But I addressing unpleasant reality that shows us the truth regarding physical ordinances. I can't count on my fingers the number of people who have gotten baptized into the church for invalid reasons by proper and worthy authority. They get baptized to get the girl, or to have friends, to play baseball or basketball on church teams. Having no faith, testimony or witness, not being converted to Christ or even the church. But the church recognizes their baptism and calls them members of the church, less active members by the time I met them, but members. God didn't give them the spiritual blessings related to the physical ordinances because they didn't receive the spiritual ordinance, only the physical one, by authority. When and if they ever do become converted, the church will not redo the baptism.

I know people who have gotten married in the temple the day after having unmarried sex, with another partner. I know that some polygamist groups will lie to the bishops and stake presidents to get into the temple to receive the ordinances.

Unfortunately, every ordinance is NOT performed by worthy people on worthy people. But the spiritual ordinances performed by God are always valid and accurate and acceptable to God. But not always recognized by the church.

Peace,
Amonhi

[Simon]

I believe that wether ordinances work or not depends on the faith of the person who receives it. If someone knows about his unworthness and still performs sacred ordinances, he only condemns himselfe, but it is my view that he can't prevent to have ordinances recorded in heaven according to the faith of the receiver. The Lord is greater than human failure.

The Priesthood can only be attained by faith.. Do all who receive the Priesthood by the laying on of hands automaticly have the priesthood ? Do ordinances count when they have not the faith needed to perfrom ordinances ? Is the Lord that limited?.. I think we need to take a greater view on that. Melchesidek received the Priesthood throuh faith. What can prevent anything when having that kind of faith? Not even Christ "could" prevent Jareds brother renting the veil and seeing him. This faith is free to all who desire it. This faith is by which God created the worlds.

[Amonhi]

I believe that wether ordinances work or not depends on the faith of the person who receives it. If someone knows about his unworthness and still performs sacred ordinances, he only condemns himselfe, but it is my view that he can't prevent to have ordinances recorded in heaven according to the faith of the receiver. The Lord is greater than human failure.

The Priesthood can only be attained by faith.. Do all who receive the Priesthood by the laying on of hands automaticly have the priesthood ? Do ordinances count when they have not the faith needed to perfrom ordinances ? Is the Lord that limited?.. I think we need to take a greater view on that. Melchesidek received the Priesthood throuh faith. What can prevent anything when having that kind of faith? Not even Christ "could" prevent Jareds brother renting the veil and seeing him. This faith is free to all who desire it. This faith is by which God created the worlds.

I assent.
Amonhi

[freedomforall]

I believe that wether ordinances work or not depends on the faith of the person who receives it. If someone knows about his unworthness and still performs sacred ordinances, he only condemns himselfe, but it is my view that he can't prevent to have ordinances recorded in heaven according to the faith of the receiver. The Lord is greater than human failure.

The Priesthood can only be attained by faith.. Do all who receive the Priesthood by the laying on of hands automaticly have the priesthood ? Do ordinances count when they have not the faith needed to perfrom ordinances ? Is the Lord that limited?.. I think we need to take a greater view on that. Melchesidek received the Priesthood throuh faith. What can prevent anything when having that kind of faith? Not even Christ "could" prevent Jareds brother renting the veil and seeing him. This faith is free to all who desire it. This faith is by which God created the worlds.

I see way too many people judging others harshly, and not watching out for their own salvation. Who cares if brother Y is sinning and not repenting? Or sister X having an affair? That's on them. And Simon, you are correct. People having ordinances given them by wolves in sheep's clothing are still honored by God because of the faith of the recipient. Now if the recipient is lying about their worthiness, as well as the ordinance officiator, that's another matter. God doesn't have to recognize that ordinance as valid. We only see the outside of a person, God's knows the heart. The more we realize this and accept it the better. Should one good member quit going to church, studying scripture, serving others, etc, just because they see other people falling off the path. Lehi describes this very thing eloquently in the Book of Mormon.
It's hard enough for each of us as individuals to stay on the right path with so many temptations ramming us.
And baptism is required. Even Christ was baptized as an example for us. He said:

JST, Matthew 3:43
43 And Jesus, answering, said unto him, Suffer me to be baptized of thee, for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Shouldn't we do likewise?

[Amonhi]

I believe that wether ordinances work or not depends on the faith of the person who receives it. If someone knows about his unworthness and still performs sacred ordinances, he only condemns himselfe, but it is my view that he can't prevent to have ordinances recorded in heaven according to the faith of the receiver. The Lord is greater than human failure.

The Priesthood can only be attained by faith.. Do all who receive the Priesthood by the laying on of hands automaticly have the priesthood ? Do ordinances count when they have not the faith needed to perfrom ordinances ? Is the Lord that limited?.. I think we need to take a greater view on that. Melchesidek received the Priesthood throuh faith. What can prevent anything when having that kind of faith? Not even Christ "could" prevent Jareds brother renting the veil and seeing him. This faith is free to all who desire it. This faith is by which God created the worlds.

I see way too many people judging others harshly, and not watching out for their own salvation. Who cares if brother Y is sinning and not repenting? Or sister X having an affair? That's on them. And Simon, you are correct. People having ordinances given them by wolves in sheep's clothing are still honored by God because of the faith of the recipient. Now if the recipient is lying about their worthiness, as well as the ordinance officiator, that's another matter. God doesn't have to recognize that ordinance as valid. We only see the outside of a person, God's knows the heart. The more we realize this and accept it the better. Should one good member quit going to church, studying scripture, serving others, etc, just because they see other people falling off the path. Lehi describes this very thing eloquently in the Book of Mormon.
It's hard enough for each of us as individuals to stay on the right path with so many temptations ramming us.

Great points!

And baptism is required. Even Christ was baptized as an example for us. He said:

JST, Matthew 3:43
43 And Jesus, answering, said unto him, Suffer me to be baptized of thee, for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Shouldn't we do likewise?

Only if we are under the law like Christ was, and need to fulfill it, like Christ did. (ie the Children of Israel who were not able to accept the higher law and had to be placed under the lower law. Fallen man.) There are those who do not need to go through the same steps that others do. One obvious example is the children born in the millennium who are raised without sin to salvation, D&C 45:58.

We should ONLY teach baptism, the remission of sins and the principles and ordinances of the Aaronic priesthood to those who are 1-Under the law, AND 2-Capable of committing sin.

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—
23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.
24 Behold, my son, this thing ought not to be; for repentance is unto them that are under condemnation and under the curse of a broken law.
25 And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins;

This is why the gentiles were able to start living the higher law immediately without fulfilling the lower law or Aaronic priesthood laws and ordinances. As Peter said,

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Not everyone has to live the Law of Moses as administered by the Aaronic Priesthood in order to be given the higher law. Even the children of Israel were given the higher law first. When they could not live it, THEN they were given the lower law. There are those who can live the higher law first without needing the lower law. God gives them the Holy Ghost directly like He did anciently. Without baptism or repentance.

[log]

Doctrine and Covenants 112:29
29 And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not, and is not baptized, shall be damned.

Dang it.

Doctrine and Covenants 68:9
9 And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned.

He never says "whoso is not baptized shall be damned."

[Amonhi]

Doctrine and Covenants 112:29
29 And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not, and is not baptized, shall be damned.

Dang it.

Doctrine and Covenants 68:9
9 And he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned.

He never says "whoso is not baptized shall be damned."

believing that baptism is what actually saves a person is putting faith in dead works. That would be like saying an evil person that gets baptized without really repenting will be saved because the ordinance actually does something. If the ordinance actually DID something, then everyone would be required to be baptized, even if the were babies/children/retareded adults/without the law etc. Because the ordinances doesn't actually Do anything, to say that it is required is to put faith in dead works.

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—
23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works. - Moro. 8:22-23

Because baptism is a dead work like ALL ordinances, (I will add, like the animal Sacrifices that they thought DID something), to say that a person will be saved because they were baptized and another one will not because they were not is putting your faith in the dead work and not the living work that happens inside of us.

It is funny to me that when I bring up this topic, people will start quoting scriptures that they interpret to say you must be baptized or you can't be saved and that say that salvation requires baptism and yet at the same time they have no issue with little children being saved without baptism. So we make exceptions for retards and children and say they can be saved without baptism, but baptism does something to us or our bodies that is required before God can look on our hearts and accept us. Baptism doesn't even give us the remission of sins.

2 Nephi 31:17 - 17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

3 Nephi 12:2 - 2 And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins.

You can have a remission of sins at any time, without being baptized or even taking the sacrament. Look at Lamonhi and hi entire household who were "Redeemed" without even getting wet, (Alma 18-20). or the prison guards who were baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost AT THE TIME OF THEIR CONVERSION, (3 Nephi 9:20, Hel. 5).

Any way, baptism is not required for salvation or exaltation. But it is required for those who are under the law of Moses or the lower law. And it is a powerful ordinance that will help people who rely on dead works to let go of their guilt. I would say that some people even need or require it because they can't progress without it. Others do it knowing that it doesn't actually do anything and do it for the sake of obedience, like Christ or the Nephites.

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
...
27 Wherefore, we speak concerning the law that our children may know the deadness of the law; and they, by knowing the deadness of the law, may look forward unto that life which is in Christ, and know for what end the law was given. And after the law is fulfilled in Christ, that they need not harden their hearts against him when the law ought to be done away.
...
30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses. - 2 Ne. 25:24-30[/quote-]

The law of Moses is kind of an all or nothing thing. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Galatians 5:3 - 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

James 2:10 - 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

But, as Peter said, why put the gentiles under the yoke of the law that neither they nor their fathers could bear. And his wise observation that if God already accepted them and witnessed that acceptance by giving them the gift of the Holy Ghost, (which is what the lower law and ordinances are meant to prepare us for), then who are we to temp God to put them under the lower law when they are already living the higher?

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

I know a family that is currently raising their children without sin to salvation as directed by the Lord in the same manner that children will be raised without sin to salvation in the millennium. Their kids have not been baptized and have the gift of the Holy Ghost from God. I also know of people who have never been baptized and have the Gift of the Holy Ghost as adults not having been raised without sin to salvation, having never been put under the law.

The church has a portion of truth that is greater than other churches, but their portion is far from all the truth that exists and even far from all the truth that has been revealed to man.

Things to think about. And to take us back to topic, I know of a man who was not a member of the church who performed all sorts of documented miracles including healing diseases, mending broken bones instantly and even raising the dead. His name was Victor Paul Wierwille. He started "The Way International" and established a curriculum intending to help people to learn how to do miracles like himself through the "Abundant power" of God and the Holy Ghost. When he died, his successor corrupted the group, turned it into a cult that uses fear to control and manipulate their followers, changed the curriculum and used his position to a seduce and or rape women around him. Sad really...

But Victor Paul Wierwille is worth looking at as a non-LDS Priesthood holder who was able to perform such miracles.

[freedomforall]

Isn't it better that we have people get baptized rather than telling them they don't have to? That would really help the missionary program, right?

What does this mean?
John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water = baptism
Spirit = born again, even by fire and Holy Ghost
These two things must be done.

Otherwise, Isn't by saying man is not required to be baptized saying that Christ lied?

Here are many scriptures saying that baptism is necessary, do we disregard them?

Baptism, Essential

Suffer it to be so now … to fulfil all righteousness: Matt. 3:15 .
teach all nations, baptizing them: Matt. 28:19 .
Jesus came … and was baptized of John: Mark 1:9 .
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: Mark 16:16 . ( Ether 4:18 ; D&C 112:28–29 . )
Jesus also being baptized: Luke 3:21 .
rejected the counsel of God … being not baptized: Luke 7:30 .
Except a man be born of water … he cannot enter into the kingdom of God: John 3:5 .
Repent, and be baptized every one of you: Acts 2:38 .
commanded them to be baptized: Acts 10:48 .
be baptized, and wash away thy sins: Acts 22:16 .
One Lord, one faith, one baptism: Eph. 4:5 .
saved us, by the washing of regeneration: Titus 3:5 .
baptism doth also now save us: 1 Pet. 3:21 .
commandeth all men that they must … be baptized: 2 Ne. 9:23 . ( 3 Ne. 27:20 . )
need have we, being unholy, to be baptized: 2 Ne. 31:5 .
whoso believeth in me, and is baptized … shall be saved: 3 Ne. 11:33 .
the commandment: Repent … and be baptized: 3 Ne. 27:20 .
as many as repent and are baptized … and endure … shall be saved: D&C 18:22 .
after … baptized … a remission of your sins: D&C 55:1 .
They are they who … were baptized … according to the commandment: D&C 76:51 .
not baptized … shall be damned: D&C 84:74 .
turn unto me … repent … and be baptized: Moses 6:52 .
ye must be born again … of water: Moses 6:59 .

See also Matt. 7:13–14 ; Acts 8:12 ; 1 Cor. 15:29 ; Eph. 4:5 ; Heb. 6:2 ; 3 Ne. 11:21 ; D&C 22:4 ; D&C 39:20 ; Moses 7:11 ; Moses 8:24 ; A of F 1:4

Why do you “baptize for the dead”?

Jesus Christ taught that “except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). For those who have passed on without the ordinance of baptism, proxy baptism for the deceased is a free will offering. According to Church doctrine, a departed soul in the afterlife is completely free to accept or reject such a baptism — the offering is freely given and must be freely received. The ordinance does not force deceased persons to become members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or “Mormons,” nor does the Church list deceased persons as members of the Church. In short, there is no change in the religion or heritage of the recipient or of the recipient's descendants — the notion of coerced conversion is utterly contrary to Church doctrine.

Of course, proxy baptism for the deceased is nothing new. It was mentioned by Paul in the New Testament (see 1 Corinthians 15:29) and was practiced by groups of early Christians. As part of a restoration of New Testament Christianity, Latter-day Saints continue this practice. All Church members are instructed to submit names for proxy baptism only for their own deceased relatives as an offering of familial love.

1 Corinthians 15
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Little children have no need of baptism, nor those without the law.
But to say that no one needs baptism is a serious error.