LDS Freedom Forum

superdan wrote:

HBE wrote:Satan will always work on the Saints of God to undermine their faith in priesthood keys.

There's no such thing as faith in priesthood keys. It's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and if you're not seeing the angels and the miracles then you're dwindling in unbelief and everything you are doing is ineffective (vain). Moroni 7:35-38

The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles exercises the keys "to open the door by the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ" in all the world (D&C 107:35;112:16;124:128). Adam holds "the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One," and "the keys of the universe" (D&C 78:16; TPJS, p. 157); Moses, "the keys of the gathering of Israel" (D&C 110:11); Elias, the keys to bring to pass "the restoration of all things" (D&C 27:6); and Elijah, "the keys of the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to the fathers" (D&C 27:9). Holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood are said to have "the keys of the Church," "the key of knowledge," and "the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church" (D&C 42:69;84:19;107:18), while belonging to the Aaronic Priesthood are "the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins" (D&C 13:1;84:26).

Franktalk wrote:I am spending my time doing what I need to in order to have a face to face meeting with Jesus. When that happens I will let you know about keys. I figure I better concentrate on the important stuff first.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:7

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

log wrote:I view attempts at enforcing doctrinal orthodoxy as being contrary to the priesthood (D&C 121:34-44), and, indeed, contrary to the word of God (Alma 32:28, AoF 11).

And - get this - I believe the Church does have the keys of the kingdom.

Seek the Truth wrote:

log wrote:I view attempts at enforcing doctrinal orthodoxy as being contrary to the priesthood (D&C 121:34-44), and, indeed, contrary to the word of God (Alma 32:28, AoF 11).

And - get this - I believe the Church does have the keys of the kingdom.

You'd probably have a real problem with JS, he exxed quite a few people in his day.

I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like Methodism and not Latter-day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammeled. – Joseph Smith

Alma 4:8 For they saw and beheld with great sorrow that the people of the church began to be lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and to set their hearts upon riches and upon the vain things of the world, that they began to be scornful, one towards another, and they began to persecute those that did not believe according to their own will and pleasure.

Hippophibia wrote:Section 132: only relates to the New and Everlasting contract of marriage, and the keys relating to it.
"And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these..." Eternal marriage is a final ordinance of salvation and can only be fully fulfilled when both parties become eternal resurrected being. The same is not applicable to other ordinances and keys.

There are many other keys, of baptism, PB, priesthood, gathering, judgement (Bishops are local judges in Israel), baptism for the dead, missionary work (areas dedicated for the work) etc. ordinances that are required to be done in the flesh, and of course every blessing is predicated on faithfulness just like baptism is a gate of entry that requires enduring in faith to the end.

A few examples!!
Like when a person is given the gift of the holy ghost after baptism the ordinance, is in force and the HG abides with the person as long as they remain faithful, and when they move onto the spirit world the ordinance and blessing continues with them.

Dedicating an area for missionary work is a priesthood ordinance that requires keys: and the sealing is on earth and heaven and blessing immediately available.

A person assigned as a Sunday School teacher - the calling is sealed on earth and heaven, the person has the keys to teach as long as the calling is in force and they are worthy.

Dedicating a grave of a deceased person!!

If a person is worthy any keys are bestowed or callings given they are sustained by the Holy Spirit that is what the ["key" is] the right to guidance of the Holy Ghost ie revelation pertaining to that calling/key-of-authority that has been bestowed and that is the sealing of the Holy Spirit of Promise.

What is sealed on earth is sealed in heaven and is sustained by the Light and power of Christ and the Holy Ghost.

log wrote:

Seek the Truth wrote:

log wrote:I view attempts at enforcing doctrinal orthodoxy as being contrary to the priesthood (D&C 121:34-44), and, indeed, contrary to the word of God (Alma 32:28, AoF 11).

And - get this - I believe the Church does have the keys of the kingdom.

You'd probably have a real problem with JS, he exxed quite a few people in his day.

I have no problem whatever with Joseph Smith.

Hear the words of the man who communed with Jehovah.

I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like Methodism and not Latter-day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammeled. – Joseph Smith

Whenever Joseph ex'd someone, it was for iniquity, not error. Joseph wasn't a self-righteous, arrogant know-it-all seeking to enforce creeds of orthodoxy upon the children of men.

Alma 4:8 For they saw and beheld with great sorrow that the people of the church began to be lifted up in the pride of their eyes, and to set their hearts upon riches and upon the vain things of the world, that they began to be scornful, one towards another, and they began to persecute those that did not believe according to their own will and pleasure.

Seek the Truth wrote: Not according to Gladden Bishop. [Joseph] exd him because of error/false doctrine.

Seek the Truth wrote:TPJS pg 215 and if you google you should find another apostle or two commenting.

log wrote: I'm sorry, I looked and cannot find evidence that Joseph was part of the High Council, the body mentionend in TPJS p. 215, for Bishop's excommunication.

Moreover, it seems the charges were not merely "erring in doctrine," but trying to take over the Church, from the description therein.

Seek the Truth wrote:

log wrote: I'm sorry, I looked and cannot find evidence that Joseph was part of the High Council, the body mentionend in TPJS p. 215, for Bishop's excommunication.

It had his blessing.

Moreover, it seems the charges were not merely "erring in doctrine," but trying to take over the Church, from the description therein.

No.

Section Four 1839-42, p.215

We have also had brethren and sisters who have written revelations, and who have started forward to lead this Church. Such was a young boy in Kirtland, Isaac Russell, of Missouri, and Gladden Bishop, and Oliver Olney of Nauvoo. The boy is now living with his parents who have submitted to the laws of the Church. Mr. Russell stayed in Far West, from whence he was to go to the Rocky Mountains, led by three Nephites; but the Nephites never came, and his friends forsook him, all but some of the blood relations, who have since been nearly destroyed by the mob. Mr. Bishop was tried by the High Council, his papers examined, condemned and burned, and he cut off the Church. He acknowledged the justice of the decision, and said "that he now saw his error, for if the had been governed by the revelations given before, he might have known that no man was to write revelations for the Church, but Joseph Smith," and begged to be prayed for, and forgiven by the brethren. Mr. Olney has also been tried by the High Council and disfellowshiped, because he would not have his writings tested by the word of God; evidently proving that he loves darkness rather than light, because his deeds are evil.

log wrote: You have mischaracterized your evidence.

Moreover, it seems the charges were not merely "erring in doctrine," but trying to take over the Church, from the description therein.

No.

Section Four 1839-42, p.215

We have also had brethren and sisters who have written revelations, and who have started forward to lead this Church. Such was a young boy in Kirtland, Isaac Russell, of Missouri, and Gladden Bishop, and Oliver Olney of Nauvoo. The boy is now living with his parents who have submitted to the laws of the Church. Mr. Russell stayed in Far West, from whence he was to go to the Rocky Mountains, led by three Nephites; but the Nephites never came, and his friends forsook him, all but some of the blood relations, who have since been nearly destroyed by the mob. Mr. Bishop was tried by the High Council, his papers examined, condemned and burned, and he cut off the Church. He acknowledged the justice of the decision, and said "that he now saw his error, for if the had been governed by the revelations given before, he might have known that no man was to write revelations for the Church, but Joseph Smith," and begged to be prayed for, and forgiven by the brethren. Mr. Olney has also been tried by the High Council and disfellowshiped, because he would not have his writings tested by the word of God; evidently proving that he loves darkness rather than light, because his deeds are evil.

Seek the Truth wrote: Well this audience will be interesting, most of them believe a prophet can come from outside the established hiearchy and preach revelations. Herein under JS watch it was an excommunicatable offense. Interesting that JS was ok with excommunicating someone who many in this forum would have defended.

So yes, let the audience judge.

Seek the Truth wrote:What's the difference.

Seek the Truth wrote:I see you didn't read TPJS pg 215. You can discover JS opinion of the excommunication there.