LDS Freedom Forum

The word of Wisdom is a unique revelation. It is doctrine. It is about health. It is about conspiracy. Consequently, it is about Freedom.

I have recently (only the last few years) been exploring veganism. My diet has probably been about 97% vegan during this time and while I have a variety of reasons for it, I would like to discuss here the proper relationship between dietary veganism and the Word of Wisdom (WoW). While they are compatible, does WoW presuppose veganism or something close to it?

My personal opinion is that “something close to it” is more accurate. Let me explain:
From Doctrine and Covenants Section 89 I observe the following:
• Herbs and Fruit are ordained for the constitution and nature of man but animal products do not get this endorsement. (verses 10 and 11)
• We should eat meat sparingly (verse 12) 1828 webster’s definition of sparingly includes near abstinence.
• God is pleased if we obtain from eating meat, excepting extreme circumstances (e.g. to save your life) (verse 13 and 15)

These ideas correlate well with the JST for Genesis chapter 9 verse 11 where after talking about how you should not eat the blood of animals but stating it is now ok to eat them the lord states:

And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.

It is interesting that verse 3 seems to indicate that this is a change from earlier teachings and indeed this is the first account of god permitting the eating flesh. Previous to this there is no condoned animal product consumption.

When the world abides celestial law even the lion will be eating grass (Isaiah 65:25) While this specific case may involve the supernatural we can do this by choice.

Also of note is that WoW is not given as commandment. This is in keeping with1 Timothy 4:
1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If we look deeper the word “meat” here is derived from the Greek word βρωμάτων (bróma) -- derived from βιβρώσκω (bibrosko) literally meaning “food” but often used to denote ceremonial foods allowed or forbidden by Jewish law. (as per Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance)

Thus we see this discussion of food is in regards to Jewish law and is one of several attempts to get the people to realize that the law was fulfilled. The law was given to point to Christ and was symbolic in nature. The health impact was not an issue. But even if it is a reference to any meat I must say I agree that we should not command people concerning the consumption of animal products. But should instead invite and teach.

Doctrine and Covenants 121:37:
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.

Doctrine and Covenants 58:26:
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.

So what say you?

The strongest argument against this that i have been able to find is the fact that Jesus, being perfect ate fish both in his mortal life and after his resurrection. Pehaps this was to prove he had a body and that made it nessasary? regardless I think it emphasizes the fact this is not a commandment. It still seems to be an odd fit because of JST Genesis 9:11. it looks like a contradiction on the surface at least.

If you want to discuss doctrine (the Word of Wisdom is a principle, btw, which we currently live as a commandment), the Word of Wisdom is neither a system of Vegetarianism, nor of Veganism:

https://www.lds.org/manual/doctrine-and ... m?lang=eng
D&C 89:12. Flesh Is to Be Used Sparingly

“The Word of Wisdom is not a system of vegetarianism. Clearly, meat is permitted [see D&C 42:18][Note, this is a manual typo, and should be 49:18]. Naturally, that includes animal products, less subject than meat to putrefactive and other disturbances, such as eggs, milk, and cheese. These products cannot be excluded simply because they are not mentioned specifically. By that token most of our foodstuffs could not be eaten.” (Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, 3:156–57.)

In any event, fish are not covered by the Word of Wisdom, anyway. But, that having been said, I think people are a lot healthier if they eat meat sparingly. Though, it's not requisite that we never eat meats. (Telling people to abstain from meats, for example, is ungodly). I do, however, believe that it's best to take the Lord at face value, and strive to eat meat (other than fish, which again, are not mentioned), sparingly, during the times proscribed in the Word of Wisdom, and make that the goal. And Fish is an excellent food source, after all. Your allusion to Jesus eating fish (which I have pondered probably over1,000 times over the years, and yes, literally), means that eating fish CANNOT be a sin, because Jesus never did sin.

Personally, I wish I wouldn't have to eat any meat (including fish) at all, but, alas, I do. My body needs protein, and of specific types. Neither soy, nor whey cut it, and beans and rice are no longer options for me (legumes make me sick). Everyone is different, though. I have gone years without eating much meat (I ate fish, once a week or so), and many prolonged periods (like a year or two at a time), without eating any meat. But it is not feasible for me to do so, anymore. It cost me close thousand dollars a month to eat "well" (I didn't eat out, either), to maintain body weight and not eat the bad food. Unless you eat relative junk food (lots of starches), it's nigh unto impossible to eat a vegetarian diet and be an active male.

As it was, I used to spend LITERALLY 5+ hours per day, prepping, and eating. I had to blend most of my food and drink it, and it required about 15 lbs of food some days just to eat enough. (FYI, I drank over a gallon of fruit smoothies in the morning, and about a half gallon of vegetable smoothies at night, because chewing would have taken ALL day, you know, like actual herbivores). Even then, I would eat spoons of butter, or loads of peanut butter (which I now don't advocate eating at all, and I no longer do), or cheeses, just to get enough calories to stay alive. At that time, I ate wheat, and a for a while, a typical breakfast sometimes included a quart of half and half or cream with a bunch of bagels, when I could no longer afford the diet based upon the calories of greens.

Humans are not meant to live off of grains, and they definitely cannot live off of leafy greens. Simply impossible. You can supplement caloric intake by downing a lot of fat, but that doesn't agree with me either.

Animals are meant for our use. I don't think the use of animals is merely to be eaten. But veganism means no animal products, which is wildly contrary to God's plan. Wool, and things like honey, would be out. And honey is also clearly not prohibited. I'm not a big fan of most dairy, though raw, and grass fed seems to not be so bad (God did promise milk, with the honey).

I do believe that God will require the blood of every beast at our hands, just like He requires everything else, at our hands. "They were tasty" is probably not a justification for eating animals, but I can only be a good steward over the administration God has given me. I frown on blatant misuse of animals (I know people who only consider animals as food, or targets practice), but in the end I'll let those people answer to God.

therockpile - I agree with most everything you had to say except the part about the WoW not being a commandment. In 1834 Joseph Smith said: "No official member in this Church is worthy to hold an office after having the word of wisdom properly taught him; and he, the official member, neglecting to comply with and obey it." Expecially when you consider the close connection between the WoW and the temple ordinances I can't see it as anything but a commandment.

My take on the meat issue is to take the Lord at his word. He told us to eat meat sparingly and that is pleases him to do so only in time of winter and famine. The way I have come to interpret this is that if we can get all the nutrients we need from things other than meat, we have an obligation to do so. We should not kill animals just because we like how they taste. But if we find ourselves in a position where we can't get get all the nutrients we need from non-meat sources, then meat should be eaten to the extent that it does give us what we need. I don't think things such as milk and eggs are prohibited though. I will admit that coming from an American lifestyle that living like this is hard to do but very doable.

To address the issue of why did Christ eat fish, I think it was because way back then, and even up until the last hundred years, diets were very limited. They didn't have the large variety of foods that we do and so getting all the nutrients they needed would have been much more difficult, maybe even impossible without meat. So meat would play a bigger role in their diet.

My experience with living this way is different from that of jdawg. I have lived a largely non-meat diet for a year now and have experienced better health than I have in a long time. I will still splurge when I go out to eat or if I eat at other people's homes and they prepare meat, but I very rarely prepare any meat at home and fast food has largely been dropped from my diet. I have even recently started going to the gym and have even put on a few pounds of muscle. But if you face certain intolerances such as jdawg then of course meat will play a bigger role in your diet. The Lord clearly did not intend any extemeism in this matter.

An interesting take on this is the book "The China Study." In it the author provides proof for a very strong correlation between animal protein consumption and cancer rates. And nut just those who eat a ton of meat, but any increase in animal protein causes an increase in cancer rates.

In the end though I think the Lord specifically made it somewhat vague to allow us to work it out. But we shouldn't forget that it was adapted to the weakest of the saints. So what does that mean for those who want to be strong in the gospel? That I think can only come through personal revelation.

laronius said: "An interesting take on this is the book "The China Study." In it the author provides proof for a very strong correlation between animal protein consumption and cancer rates. And not just those who eat a ton of meat, but any increase in animal protein causes an increase in cancer rates."

One of the main causes of increased cancer rates in the US is vaccinations, beginning with the SV40 monkey virus found in the polio vaccines given to millions of us. I highly recommend the book The Virus and the Vaccine. Also, for a more fun read, although it doesn't go into the vaccine problem as scientifically, but also includes a lot of interesting Lee Harvey Oswald information, check out Dr. Mary's Monkey.

jdawg1012 wrote:If you want to discuss doctrine (the Word of Wisdom is a principle, btw, which we currently live as a commandment), the Word of Wisdom is neither a system of Vegetarianism, nor of Veganism:

Thanks for the correction I agree it is not doctrine but a principle. I also agree that it is different than veg*ism my post is meant to open the floor for discussion of the differences and similarities between the two as they relate to each other.

jdawg1012 wrote:Your allusion to Jesus eating fish (which I have pondered probably over1,000 times over the years, and yes, literally), means that eating fish CANNOT be a sin, because Jesus never did sin.

I absolutely agree, it is not sin unless your take life without justifiable cause. again: JST Gen 9:11 suggests that eating meat is only to save your own life but Jesus being resurrected does not need to eat meat to save his own life. I've come up with a few ideas to reconcile this:
* Christ having the keys of life and death, being also the creator of all things has a special privilege (sounds like a double standard to me)
* Christ saw it necessary to demonstrate he had a body. It is difficult to falsely say he was a spirit if he is eating something (then why not a carrot or bread or something else?)
* Fish is not a "Beast" and therefore exempt (sounds too much like the letter of the law only)

As you can see none of these ideas satisfy me. Perhaps It is one of those things to file away and discover more about after this mortal exp.

jdawg1012 wrote:Animals are meant for our use. I don't think the use of animals is merely to be eaten. But veganism means no animal products, which is wildly contrary to God's plan. Wool, and things like honey, would be out. And honey is also clearly not prohibited. I'm not a big fan of most dairy, though raw, and grass fed seems to not be so bad (God did promise milk, with the honey).

Animals are the best fertilizer factories! I do differ in my definition of vegan b/c I do not consider honey an animal product. It is made from flowers not bees. as to other products as to the rest this is why I said "dietary vegetarianism" to try to narrow the scope a bit.

laronius wrote:therockpile - I agree with most everything you had to say except the part about the WoW not being a commandment. In 1834 Joseph Smith said: "No official member in this Church is worthy to hold an office after having the word of wisdom properly taught him; and he, the official member, neglecting to comply with and obey it." Expecially when you consider the close connection between the WoW and the temple ordinances I can't see it as anything but a commandment.

Perhaps I am splitting hairs but I do stand by my statement. I do however wish to clarify by stating that while it is not given as a commandment it has been accepted as such by the body of the church. I think this is analogous to David's mighty men when he mentioned wanting water from a well in enemy territory they took it as if it was a command by their own choice. Good all the way around. Would it not be wonderfull if the lord had to give only a hint at what would be good and we did it straightway?

laronius wrote:I don't think things such as milk and eggs are prohibited though. I will admit that coming from an American lifestyle that living like this is hard to do but very doable.

Am I correct in thinking you are mean discouraged not prohibited? your comment brings to mind a loose hierarchy I built for listing animal products from best to worst using scripture, words of modern prophets, and some health literature. Ultimately I don't use it much but it was a fun exercise. It went something like this:

• Eggs, cheese, etc (animal product but not taking life)
• Fish (healthy, and clean, placed highly in a hierarchy suggested by Brigham Young)
• Meat from non predatory and non bottom feeding animals (strikingly overlaps clean animals In the OT)
• Other clean animals
• Unclean animals

The list was inspired by Brigham Young's Teaching on Health. Notice how he says one thing is good but leaves room for something better as he progresses through levels of healthy eating.

Oh, and Yes, it is hard to move away from the SAD diet. I feel hopelessly addicted to sugar. GRRrr...

laronius wrote:An interesting take on this is the book "The China Study." In it the author provides proof for a very strong correlation between animal protein consumption and cancer rates. And nut just those who eat a ton of meat, but any increase in animal protein causes an increase in cancer rates.

Yes, We were on the path before reading that book but it is what started us realising we had to commit. Is also why I am hardcore about not crossing a 5% animal product threshold.

laronius wrote:In the end though I think the Lord specifically made it somewhat vague to allow us to work it out. But we shouldn't forget that it was adapted to the weakest of the saints. So what does that mean for those who want to be strong in the gospel? That I think can only come through personal revelation.

Exactly why we are on this journey! Nail on the head you hit it!
I have received some on this matter but it is not for me to push on others so I do not use it to forward any of my arguments. Also, as you can see, I am still trying to formalize my thoughts.

D&C 59:16-20

I do not consider honey an animal product. It is made from flowers not bees

I thought honey was the regurgitated stomach contents of the bees. Another reason that honey doesn't fit into the vegan lifestyle is that beekeepers end up smashing and killing lots of bees when retrieving the product.

If you go back through this site we've had some good conversation on this subject.

therockpile wrote:The strongest argument against this that i have been able to find is the fact that Jesus, being perfect ate fish both in his mortal life and after his resurrection. Perhaps this was to prove he had a body and that made it necessary? regardless I think it emphasizes the fact this is not a commandment. It still seems to be an odd fit because of JST Genesis 9:11. it looks like a contradiction on the surface at least.

This should clear the matter up for you:

1 Nephi 13:20-29

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/13?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

D&C 89:15, JST Gen 9:11, and D&C 49:21 are very plain and easy to understand.

The following might be of help as well:

http://www.tomrodgers.org/BroiledFish.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tomrodgers.org/JewishRoyalWe ... adFish.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://youtu.be/KNCGkprGW_o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://youtu.be/O7ijukNzlUg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Forks-Over-Knives ... =8-2-fkmr1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...went the rounds on this a couple of years ago, in this locked, 2-page-thread:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16876" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...for those that might have missed it, some excellent info on the topic can be found there. The reason for it having been locked will become evident.

juniper wrote:D&C 59:16-20

care to expound? it has some relevance on the topic but i'm not sure how much it adds as WoW given a year later and gives some perspective as to what "with judgment, not to excess" means. I'm not familiar with the historical background surrounding section 59 usually knowing the problems (question) helps add perspective to the answer. I would love to hear your take.

dconrad000 wrote:

therockpile wrote:The strongest argument against this that i have been able to find is the fact that Jesus, being perfect ate fish both in his mortal life and after his resurrection. Perhaps this was to prove he had a body and that made it necessary? regardless I think it emphasizes the fact this is not a commandment. It still seems to be an odd fit because of JST Genesis 9:11. it looks like a contradiction on the surface at least.

This should clear the matter up for you:

1 Nephi 13:20-29

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/13?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

D&C 89:15, JST Gen 9:11, and D&C 49:21 are very plain and easy to understand.

The following might be of help as well:

http://www.tomrodgers.org/BroiledFish.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.tomrodgers.org/JewishRoyalWe ... adFish.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://youtu.be/KNCGkprGW_o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://youtu.be/O7ijukNzlUg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/Forks-Over-Knives ... =8-2-fkmr1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am fully aware of 1 Nephi 13:20-29 but I am very cautious about applying it, I have seen members use it in a very cavalier way such that their opiniontrumps the Bible. Not to say I am against it in this case but I would like to see more evidence. I accept the JST wholeheartedly.
Now that fish == bread thing is interesting I will have to look up more about it. <mind blown> <-- there should be a emoticon for that
I can see fisherman pulling up nets of bread from the sea of Galilee =)) (I know that is abusing the truth but you have to admit the visual is funny when you take the fish thing out of context) seriously, I find it fascinating and will be learning more about it.

Food That Kills is something I think may have viewed before but it must have been late at night b/c my memory of it is barely there.
I have seen Forks over knives, Food inc.,Food Matters, Genetic roulette, king corn, and just about every gardening, Diet, health, cancer cure documentary out there. If I hear about one I find it and watch. My favorites are probably Food Matters and Michael Mosley's BBC shows about fasting and exercise and there is Dr. Michael Greger who has helped me with some of my hesitancies with this lifestyle. Specifically with this video:

dconrad000 wrote:...went the rounds on this a couple of years ago, in this locked, 2-page-thread:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16876" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...for those that might have missed it, some excellent info on the topic can be found there. The reason for it having been locked will become evident.

I will take that as a voice of caution. I do not want to bludgeon people with me proving veganism is the way to go. People are different and have different needs for their bodies. We are also at different stages of willingness to accept different ideas. I think the scriptures are clear that very little meat is the way to go and none is also accepted. I think it is also very clear that what very little means is between that person and Father. But if you wanted to make a competition there is this example (but I promise not to kiss you, that would be awkward to say the least):

therockpile wrote:
I do not want to bludgeon people with me proving veganism is the way to go.

I agree with you there. When you examine the above referenced, locked thread that should become quite clear. I also agree with what you say about 1 Nephi 13:20-29. However when extremely plain and simple language spoken directly from the mouth of the Lord to the Prophet Joseph Smith contradicts verses in the King James version of the bible, it certainly is helpful to be cognizant of the vision Nephi had with respect to the corruption of a number of verses in the bible that occurred. I am grateful for the clarification which the vision Nephi was shown, gives -- along with additional clarification by God through modern-day revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the JST of the bible, as well as in the D&C.

Putting aside the issue of when and when not to eat meat, I would love to hear people's opinions concerning the word sparingly. Especially those who disagree with a complete or even a largely vegan lifestyle. There is nothing sparingly about the American diet. Does having meat with almost every meal count as sparingly? In my opinion, No. Yet that is what most members of the Church eat. I will be the last to tell people what to eat. That is there decision. But I'm afraid that culture and society has trumped the word of the Lord in this issue.

Sparingly is a word defined directly between an individual and God. It's one of those lines in the sand that varies from person to person and has to be discussed with God.

The Word of Wisdom is one of those commandments that is really quite....well, I don't want to use the word relative, but...personable, I guess? Like, eating meat sparingly to me and my family was meat twice a month or something like that. But let's say a convert commits to the word of wisdom by cutting his meat intake by a third--which means he only has meat for one meal a day instead of all three. that sort of thing.

My aunt and I have similar health issues with our joints and bones. She solved them completely by going on a vegan diet. I was in high school at the time and decided to try it...huge disaster. I lost about ten pounds and had no energy to do anything in my life. I remember my mom picking me up to school, sitting me at the table, and forcing me to eat bread and milk. However, in college, I got a little smarter with wheats and other things and found myself slowly beginning on a vegan diet as I did more research about my body, and I had never felt better. Eat meat sparingly, for me, now only means one piece of meat per month. People just need to take it directly to God and be as honest as possible.

laronius wrote: I would love to hear people's opinions concerning the word sparingly.

God's definition of sparingly:

D&C 89:15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

Sparingly can be a very subjective term that people use to their detriment. I appreciate the Lord having given His definition of sparingly in verse 15, which is not subjective at all -- but very plain. That's where I prefer to hang my hat, on the definition.

Lizzy60 wrote:laronius said: "An interesting take on this is the book "The China Study." In it the author provides proof for a very strong correlation between animal protein consumption and cancer rates. And not just those who eat a ton of meat, but any increase in animal protein causes an increase in cancer rates."

One of the main causes of increased cancer rates in the US is vaccinations, beginning with the SV40 monkey virus found in the polio vaccines given to millions of us. I highly recommend the book The Virus and the Vaccine. Also, for a more fun read, although it doesn't go into the vaccine problem as scientifically, but also includes a lot of interesting Lee Harvey Oswald information, check out Dr. Mary's Monkey.

THIS ^^^^^

I eat a mostly fruit based diet. With lots of green smoothies. I eat three eggs a day from my free range chickens to keep my cholesterol levels and b12 levels up. I find that if cholesterol levels because low testosterone levels plummet. I would like to give up meat, but a allow myself meat once a week at the most. So that I am eating sparingly, but I have found that if you completely abstain it makes people really annoyed. By eating lots of bannanas and dates I have actually found this to be a very affordable diet. Bananas running from 46 to 52 cents pound in my area. And dates at 2.57 a lb for a dried fruit. Yesterday I bought 36 lbs of bananas for 16 dollars and 15 lbs of dates for 36 dollars. Greens are expensive, but I have found that I can buy a large bag of organic baby greens for $4 and freeze it so that it will last a few weeks. Brigham Young gave a talk saying that we should eat mostly fruits as the ancients did.

Well, lets see how it was used when this was writen. Noah Webster's 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language usesthe following words to describe the word "sparingly":

1. Not abundantly.
2. Frugally; parsimoniously; not lavishly.
3. Abstinently; moderately. Moderate abstanance? I guess sparingly is abstanance lite?
4. Seldom; not frequently; rare.
5. Cautiously; tenderly. Tenderly is so completly applicable here. It reminds me of the sacredness of life and you should take it with love for the creature you are now taking life from

The manager of the local news station was telling me last week that the average us person consumes more meat in a week in ounces than the rest of the world does in grams for the year.

I believe there is something to the statement that regarding grain: is for the constitution, nature, and use of man; and meat: for the use of man..." I know many early church leaders abstained from eating meat if possible, and obviously was a current issue with other religions of the time also not eating meat. I know we are given hidden treasures of knowledge, and for me, has included the truth of a vegetarian lifestyle being more correct and I feel more in tune when I adhere to it. I don't care if revelation appears to contradict earlier scripture due to the fact it IS revelation for our day, our crops, the conspiring hearts and corruption of food sources. I do believe that a nearly vegetarian diet is the most preferred diet, and appreciate that flesh is sanctified through prayer and thanksgiving. I know there are physiological needs that differ and require other diets, but just as with every exception for every law, the ideal still stands as the Lord's will for us. Plus, the WOW isn't the perfect law, as it has been adapted to accommodate the weakest. I'm sure there is much more to the will of the Lord in nourishing and protecting our bodies. This has been taught again and again throughout the scriptures, but I think it has never been more important than now because of lack of control of food sources and access to more pure, whole food. It gives greater meaning to whole foods, eaten in season as being to staple of our diets. That is the best nutritional advice you can get, yet is so simple. It probably seemed ridiculously obvious to the early saints.

...just came across these two videos in the past couple of days...very, very interesting. This man has tremendous integrity. He is John Robbins, the only son of Irvine Robbins, co-founder of Baskin Robbins, a billion dollar company. He was heir to that, but walked away from it all -- to follow his conscience.

This first video is a very interesting, recent presentation. The second video is the film he made back in the early 90s. They are both excellent.


Presentation by John Robbins




1990s Film: Diet For A New America, by John Robbins

see this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yResuAas ... 8E07C086D6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This man has a very interesting story to tell, as well.


Milk, Beef, Honey and Cancer - Retired Dairy Farmer - With Intro - Full Lecture

...while I'm at it...another important film to include in the mix -- which demonstrates just how very far we as a people have strayed from the principles as outlined in JST Gen 9:11, D&C 49:21 and D&C 89:15...

If we were to live celestial laws we would of course be eliminating animal suffering and be consuming much less of them but we may also be eliminating to a large part other issues. One I had not thought about is that this practice may eliminate to a large extent superbugs (H1N1, H5N1, Sars, MRSA, etc) as per Dr Michael Greger: