LDS Freedom Forum

Davedan wrote: Christ did criticize the Pharisees. However, Christ can judge whomever he wishes and Pharisees were Jewish intellectuals and not ordained to administer the Law of Moses. Pharisees were not the political or religious rulers of the people

1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments

davedan wrote:Christ can criticize. That doesn't give us license.

I would not equate LDS Apostles with Jewish Pharisees.

I would equate Christian teachers of religion and intellectuals who derive their authority from scholarship with Pharisees. LDS Apostles were called by God and derive their authority from God and not a theological or divinity degree.

davedan wrote:LDS BSA does not say its okay to be openly gay

What LDS BSA does say is if a boy has same gender attraction, he is still welcome and will be taught morality and values out of "For the Strength of Youth".

Being "openly" anything is not permissible in BSA. But we will not cast boys aside as lost or not worth the effort to reclaim.

BSA is not an elite club but part of a program to "rescue" and develop boys.

davedan wrote:BSA program is in harmony with the gospel of Christ I agree to disagree on this point, also I think people are so entrenched in the tradition of the scouting program they think that it is part of the gospel of Christ.

James says Pure Religion = Charity and Virtue
BSA teaches "Do a good turn daily" and "keep yourself morally straight". but it's okay to be openly gay! LOL.
They are the same goals. There have been no problems with the LDS and BSA.

davedan wrote:no its NOT okay to be openly gay. But BSA will not cast aside boys but rescue them amd teach them virtue.This will be my last response because I really have other things that I need to be doing. However, the facts of the matter are that the BSA released a statement that it is okay for boys participating in the BSA to be openly gay. We could have a whole other discussion on what that statement could entail.

BSA Leaders do not allow any boy to be openly anything but openly moral and virtuous. You cannot teach young boys to be moral and virtuous while at the same time embracing a message to these young boys that it is okay to be openly gay. That is a very conflicting message to say the least in a world that is constantly trying to blur the lines and confuse the lines on morality.

What are you scared of? Why motivated by fear? LDS Apostles were motivated by love and concern to rescue boys. There waa no change in LDS policy in this regards BTW.

davedan wrote:I am involved in BSA. There is no confusion. LDS BSA leaders have control over what happens in our troops and what is "openly taught"

You have put yourself in oposition to The Lord's Annointed and are second guessing their decision . If the LDS had abandoned BSA, I would support it. LDS Leadership has chosen to stay with BSA and I support it. It wasn't my call. I gave my consent to LDS Leadership who made the call.
I'm not in any opposition to the Lords anointed when I stand firmly in God's Doctrine. It's His not mine. They are free to make decisions, as am I. I'm sure you heard Uchtdorfs talk admitting to past mistakes being made in the Church. Well if they have been made by Priesthood leaders in the past, what doesn't that tell you about today?
I support and sustain my leadership in their respective callings. I do not support and sustain everything the do. I will support and sustain the things they do when they align with Gods doctrine. Sometimes unfortunately it is the Lords annointed that put themselves in opposition to Gods work.Did you consent?

davedan wrote:Hard to sustain your leaders cafeteria-style.

davedan wrote:I can't speak for what you do personally. True

I am not entitled to receive revelation for the Church. I consented that the 12 Apostles make these decisions. They made their decision. Yes, and I've made mine as the spirit has born witness to me that this decision is in error with God's doctrine.I will trust they made an inspired decision.

Even if I decided to personally pull my kids out of BSA, I would not publically criticize the decision for the Church that was not mine to make. I gave my consent. I have no stewardship for the Church. Very true which is why I don't publically criticize the decision of the church. Voicing concern on an internet forum anonymously is a far cry from public criticism.

I might pull my kids out of BSA but I wouldnt undermine the Brethren by publicizing my differing viewpoint.
There is nothing in the gospel that says it is not okay to share different viewpoints. It is possible to share a differing viewpoint without criticism. Agreeing to disagree does not = criticism. That crosses the line, for me.

You can receive inspired direction for you and your stewardship. No one else.