drjme wrote:freedomfighter wrote:drjme wrote:
Not really, not.
Adam and Eve still were in Gods presence after they had sinned. He still met with them and informed them that as a result of their disobedience they could no longer dwell in the garden. So the statements you made are not absolute.
Using your position, you can say that anyone that sins in
ignorance is condemned to the devils lair. Because one minuscule sin they didn't even know about is held against them. Now as a non believer in Christ this is true, all sins are held against someone who doesn't accept Christ.. But as a believer in Christ you don't understand grace. You see when we are in Christ we are judged by His merits, not ours, we are given to conquer because we are in Him, and he has already conquered the devil.
Dan7:22 When the ancient of days takes his throne...judgement is passed...in favour of the saints...to inherit the kingdom.
Christ has conquered and taken the throne and so judgement has been passed in favor of the saints to inherit the kingdom of God.
So what does this look for you?
Do we repent? Yes. Do we try our best to be better? Yes. In the end is that what saves us? No. It is the good that Christ done that saves us, not the good we done. It isn't our ability to repent perfectly or to be perfect.We are reconciled to the father by Christs merits alone. Would you like to rethink you position?
Absolutely not! The scriptures I posted say what the plan of justice is and I can't help it if people refuse to read and understand that which is written. I can't put into words the discontent I have because of unbelief. It's much easier to say I'm in the wrong than to read it for yourselves.
so have
you perfectly repented of EVERY sin in your entire life? missed any? if you have are you numbered amongst the devil minions?
See what I mean? I said sin un-repented of, not sins that have been remitted. My point was that when someone sins beyond the age of accountability, those sins will keep them from the presence of the Father until they have been repented of and remitted. Sins have to be remitted before one can be with Father and Christ. It's in the book.
Frankly, I have hope that Christ removes stains from my spirit and body...this is all any of us can hope for...because God sure will tell us where we stand at the judgement bar. When we repent with a sincere heart, with real intent and a contrite spirit our sin can be lift from us. But God does not accept wooden nickles. He knows if we are sincere or not.
We have this promise when we repent regularly:
Mosiah 26:30
30 Yea, and as often as my people repent will I forgive them their trespasses against me.
Is this unclear?
Moro. 6:8
8 But as oft as they repented and sought forgiveness, with real intent, they were forgiven.
Ah, there's the real intent part.
Acts 3:19
19 ¶Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Right out of the bible. Repent and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. I have not said otherwise, yet some here argue that God will save us all against our will. Remember, no unclean thing can enter into God's presence and remain?
2 Ne. 1:20
20 And he hath said that: Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence.
Straight forward, right?
If we do not repent:
Doctrine and Covenants 76:84
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
2 Nephi 9:34
34 Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.
Prov. 9:18,
2 Ne. 9:12 (11–12),
Alma 12:11 and
D&C 29:38
2 Nephi 9:36
36 Wo unto them who commit whoredoms, for they shall be thrust down to hell.
2 Nephi 28:15
15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell
Pretty clear, right?
Ignorance vs Rebellion
D&C 76
81 And again, we saw the glory of the
telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
82 These are
they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
Not ignorance ,rather, no interest.
83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
84 These are they who are thrust down to hell.
85 These are
they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
71 And again, we saw the
terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.
72 Behold, these are they who died without law;
73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;
74
Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
Now for the Celestial
50 ...this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the
resurrection of the just—
51 They
are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
52 That by keeping the commandments
they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;
53 And
who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
54
They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands
the Father has given all things—
56 They are
they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are
priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written,
they are gods, even the sons of God—
Only the Celestial are Gods.
59 Wherefore,
all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60 And
they shall overcome all things.
61 Wherefore,
let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62 These
shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63 These are
they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
Only Celestial people will rise to meet the Savior when He comes.
64 These are
they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65 These are
they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66 These are
they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and
church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68 These are
they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69 These are
they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70 These are
they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
What is the church of Enoch, vs 67?:
D&C 133:54-56
54 Yea, and Enoch also, and they who were with him; the prophets who were before him; and Noah also, and they who were before him; and Moses also, and they who were before him;
55 And from Moses to Elijah, and from Elijah to John, who were with Christ in his resurrection, and the holy apostles, with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, shall be in the presence of the Lamb.
56 And the graves of the saints shall be opened; and they shall come forth and stand on the right hand of the Lamb, when he shall stand upon Mount Zion, and upon the holy city, the New Jerusalem; and they shall sing the song of the Lamb, day and night forever and ever.