LDS Freedom Forum

jo1952 wrote:

Epistemology wrote:Franktalk is typical of so many who love to cherry pick one statement made by an early apostle as he has done with Heber C Kimball here and fit that statement into a paradigm that they themselves firmly establish in their own minds. It is akin to gospel hobbyist inclinations spoken of by Elder Oaks in his talk about how strengths can become our downfall if we obsess on any one particular concept and pound that piano key to death. Franktalk INTERPRETED Pres. Kimball as saying we have multiple mortal probations yet myriads of other Prophets both past and present have clarified and reclarified that this life is our time to prepare to meet God and perform our labors. Franktalk is a perfect example of why we need continued revelation and clarification from our modern Prophets. Otherwise members of the church will hook onto some pet concept and take it to the extreme as He has done here which eventually puts one at odds with the church and creates a division between the member and the church. It is a dangerous road to travel.

thank you.

I guess ill never have to write another post, I can just copy and paste this reply...

You leave no room for individuals to receive personal revelation from the Holy Ghost where it concerns their own personal salvation. Yet Christ taught that the Holy Ghost shall teach ALL things; even more than Christ taught. I extend this to also be more than Joseph taught (and, indeed, Joseph didn't teach us everything he knew). I extend this to also be more than our leaders teach us (and, indeed, they are teaching us less today than was being taught to the members of the Church when Joseph was alive). I extend this to be more than you are willing to allow yourself to believe and teach; even though scriptures teach us to believe ALL things...and believing ALL things is a part of our own Articles of Faith. So, I will repeat once more that if we are not willing to believe all things, the Holy Ghost will not be able to teach us all things. And we cannot be saved in ignorance. Once more, this is something Joseph said:

"I never heard of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief." ~~ Joseph Smith Jr.

When we close our minds to believing all things (It depends on where the "things: come from}, we damn ourselves; i.e., we stop our own progression.

freedomfighter wrote: We're supposed to test what we hear by comparing what we hear with scripture. What you teach doesn't pass any test. Even Frank stated we are not to trust in what man says. That was something that truly made sense. So, guess what? I don't trust this because it is not in scripture. Quite simple actually.
I also noticed how he skirted around my questions, as usual. Asking a question as an answer for a question is not answering it.
Let me ask you, since you claim that the Spirit revealed MMP's to you as real, what would you say to someone that says the Spirit said it was not real? Would you think they're nuts? Would you say they're getting their information from other than God? Do you understand the awkwardness of this MMP stuff? I don't know why this grates on me so much. I guess all I can do is allow people to believe what they may. I don't believe such doctrine; it just does not come from scripture. And since you and Frank are flesh, it only makes sense that I do not rely on the arm of flesh to guide me. And I know there are people on this forum who, divided, are on both sides of this issue.

jo1952 wrote:

freedomfighter wrote: We're supposed to test what we hear by comparing what we hear with scripture. What you teach doesn't pass any test. Even Frank stated we are not to trust in what man says. That was something that truly made sense. So, guess what? I don't trust this because it is not in scripture. Quite simple actually.
I also noticed how he skirted around my questions, as usual. Asking a question as an answer for a question is not answering it.
Let me ask you, since you claim that the Spirit revealed MMP's to you as real, what would you say to someone that says the Spirit said it was not real? Would you think they're nuts? Would you say they're getting their information from other than God? Do you understand the awkwardness of this MMP stuff? I don't know why this grates on me so much. I guess all I can do is allow people to believe what they may. I don't believe such doctrine; it just does not come from scripture. And since you and Frank are flesh, it only makes sense that I do not rely on the arm of flesh to guide me. And I know there are people on this forum who, divided, are on both sides of this issue.

It is good to test all things. It happens that there are myriads of different interpretations of scripture; and all are backed up by the belief that each interpretation has been verified by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer. So it is that you will see different interpretations than what I see. So be it.

Christ taught that He had not taught everything He knew. Joseph Smith taught that he had not taught everything he knew. As a result, our scriptures simply do not contain all truth. We DO have the Holy Ghost available to teach ALL things; even though our scriptures do not teach us all things.

We shouldn't be limiting ourselves to a close-ended interpretation of scriptures. We also should not be limiting ourselves to only scriptures. Truth never ends; and truth can be found everywhere.

Epistemology wrote:

jo1952 wrote: It is good to test all things. It happens that there are myriads of different interpretations of scripture; and all are backed up by the belief that each interpretation has been verified by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer. So it is that you will see different interpretations than what I see. So be it.

Christ taught that He had not taught everything He knew. Joseph Smith taught that he had not taught everything he knew. As a result, our scriptures simply do not contain all truth. We DO have the Holy Ghost available to teach ALL things; even though our scriptures do not teach us all things.

We shouldn't be limiting ourselves to a close-ended interpretation of scriptures. We also should not be limiting ourselves to only scriptures. Truth never ends; and truth can be found everywhere.

Of course there are many truths yet to be revealed, but that doesn't mean that every theory or claim someone puts forth is true

Epistemology wrote:

jo1952 wrote:

freedomfighter wrote: We're supposed to test what we hear by comparing what we hear with scripture. What you teach doesn't pass any test. Even Frank stated we are not to trust in what man says. That was something that truly made sense. So, guess what? I don't trust this because it is not in scripture. Quite simple actually.
I also noticed how he skirted around my questions, as usual. Asking a question as an answer for a question is not answering it.
Let me ask you, since you claim that the Spirit revealed MMP's to you as real, what would you say to someone that says the Spirit said it was not real? Would you think they're nuts? Would you say they're getting their information from other than God? Do you understand the awkwardness of this MMP stuff? I don't know why this grates on me so much. I guess all I can do is allow people to believe what they may. I don't believe such doctrine; it just does not come from scripture. And since you and Frank are flesh, it only makes sense that I do not rely on the arm of flesh to guide me. And I know there are people on this forum who, divided, are on both sides of this issue.

It is good to test all things. It happens that there are myriads of different interpretations of scripture; and all are backed up by the belief that each interpretation has been verified by the Holy Spirit to each individual believer. So it is that you will see different interpretations than what I see. So be it.

Christ taught that He had not taught everything He knew. Joseph Smith taught that he had not taught everything he knew. As a result, our scriptures simply do not contain all truth. We DO have the Holy Ghost available to teach ALL things; even though our scriptures do not teach us all things.

We shouldn't be limiting ourselves to a close-ended interpretation of scriptures. We also should not be limiting ourselves to only scriptures. Truth never ends; and truth can be found everywhere.

Of course there are many truths yet to be revealed, but that doesn't mean that every theory or claim someone puts forth is true

freedomfighter wrote: Now with people on this forum spouting off about MMP's and that they learned it through the Holy Spirit...are they in obedience to that command in Alma 12:9? Or does it get thrown out with other scriptures I've quoted?

Epistemology wrote:
I believe in truth.

I believe that,

"Franktalk is a perfect example of why we need continued revelation and clarification from our modern Prophets. Otherwise members of the church will hook onto some pet concept and take it to the extreme as He has done here which eventually puts one at odds with the church and creates a division between the member and the church. It is a dangerous road to travel."

Franktalk wrote:

Epistemology wrote:
I believe in truth.

I believe that,

"Franktalk is a perfect example of why we need continued revelation and clarification from our modern Prophets. Otherwise members of the church will hook onto some pet concept and take it to the extreme as He has done here which eventually puts one at odds with the church and creates a division between the member and the church. It is a dangerous road to travel."

One mans blasphemy is another mans gospel. I guess God will sort it out.