The Polluted Holy Church Mormon Chapter 8

[Jim Kelley]

The letter you see to Elder Perry is an example of why I have been excommunicated.

I have sent dozens of letters like this to Church H.Q. They have been "copied" back to my Stake President(s) and then he would chew my rear end.

I didn't give up and eventually in a Mock Trial I was excommunicated for "apostasy."

I pointed out in my appeals documents The Church has created a new definition for apostasy that would convict Jesus Christ Himself.

I have petitioned The First Presidency perhaps a dozen times in the past five years to give their official interpretation of "the holy church of God." Not a peep.

In relation to my appeals my Stake President confided in me The First Presidency talked to him "several times" on the phone about my case. Apparently The First Presidency has time to scheme, behind my back, how they can "affirm" the decision of the Church Court without getting into to much trouble but doesn't have the time to give an official interpretation for "the holy church of God." I have even pleaded with The First Presidency to inform my Stake President of the official interpretation and then he can tell me. No dice!

Let the letter to Elder Perry and this post speak for themselves.

Brother Jim

[Jim Kelley]

A quick explanation about SMP. SMP is an acronym and means selfish, malicious and preditorial.

[Thinker]

Jim,
I like the idea of sending letters or email to GA, their family and curriculum writers.
If we were to make the most impact, it might be best to simplify (brief letters and focused) and unite (send the same basic message at the same time).

IMO, the most harmful problems of the church are:
1) Financial corruption
2) Cognitive distortions (teachings that inspire excessive shame/depression and fear/anxiety)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd suggest we all write to them about one or the other, keeping it brief (ideally post card space) and scripturally supported.

Also as far as our own local influence - keeping it centered on Christ's teachings (which sadly if we go with lds curriculum is not always easy to do).
And do it all studying, pondering, praying and with as much love and spirit as we can.

[Jim Kelley]

Absolute connection:

Moroni 10:27 specifically quotes the Lord God as saying, “Did I not declare my words unto you, which were written by this man, like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust?”

What the Lord God is referring to here is not Ether because Ether is an abridgment of “the writings of Ether” (Chapter heading for Ether 1).

What the Lord God is referring to here is not The Book Of Moroni because this book was an afterthought “contrary to that which [Moroni] had supposed” (Moroni 1).

The only other two Chapters in The Book Of Mormon the Lord God could even be referring to are Mormon Chapters Eight and Nine. Perhaps the Lord God has provided some connecting words in these two Chapters to help us understand these are the Chapters the Lord God will specifically ask Mormons about on Judgment Day.

“Behold, I speak unto you as if ye are present, and yet ye are not” (Mormon 8:35). Does this sound “like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust?”

“Behold, I speak unto you as though I spake from the dead; for I know that ye shall have my words” (Mormon 9:30). Does this sound “like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust?”

It is interesting to me there is a specific reference in both Chapters Eight and Nine that is “like as one crying from the dead, yea, even as one speaking out of the dust?” Obviously the Lord God knew in advance the one Chapter Moroni originally wrote would be later misunderstood by someone editing for printing and split into two separate Chapters. Obviously the Lord God, knowing this in advance, made special provision that these connecting verses would be in each Chapter after the division. Remember, everything Moroni wrote in Chapters Eight and Nine was by commandments (Mormon 8:1) from Jesus Christ and through his father.

The question remains why someone separated what Moroni wrote into two separate Chapters. The Holy Ghost has and is now impressing upon my mind the reason was to make the latter half, what is now Chapter Nine, look like it is referring to the infidels who in no way could be the Mormons. The Holy Ghost is further impressing upon me this was an honest mistake in the beginning and has been perpetuated more recently because it fits the plan of the General Authorities right now in their “transfiguring” (Mormon 8:33). So an honest mistake in the past has become a win-fall for the “hypocrites” now.

The Holy Ghost has impressed upon me in the beginning years of The Church when the Chapters in Mormon were divided as we have them now (There were only five chapters originally in Mormon) those responsible in the editing noticed Mormon 8:1-13 could be a chapter of its own, Mormon 8:14-25 could be a chapter of its own, Mormon 8:26-32 could be a chapter of its own, Mormon 8:33-41 could be a chapter of its own and it seem logical to them what is now Chapter Nine could be on its own.

Obviously with only five chapters becoming nine chapters there was some dividing besides the obvious division with Mormon 8:41 as an ending and Mormon 9:1 as the new beginning. Anyway five chapters did grow into nine and The Holy Ghost impresses upon me these divisions were an honest mistake. In other words these divisions were not malicious in the beginning.

What is malicious intent today is for the General Authorities to deny, or just ignore and not say anything, Mormon Chapter Nine is a direct warning from Jesus Christ against those who would dare to “transfigure” Jesus Christ’s Warning as Mormon 8:33-41.

In the Ninth Chapter Moroni specifically states, “Behold, I speak unto you as though I spake from the dead; for I know that ye shall have my words” (Mormon 9:30). Does the term, “for I know that ye shall have my words” sound like Moroni is speaking to the infidels or non-Mormons of any kind who will most likely never start reading The Book Of Mormon let alone the last portion? Who is going to have Moroni’s words? Obviously Mormons who will be reading The Book Of Mormon. Even if a Baptist, or anyone other than a Mormon, does read these words it would not apply to them because they are not the “hypocrites” who have “polluted the holy church of God” Mormon 8:38).

So we have gone full circle with the connecting verses that absolutely connect Mormon Chapters Eight and Nine with Moroni 10:27 which informs all Mormons, who have read this anyway, Jesus Christ Himself has “declared” His Words of Warning to you.

Brothers and Sisters, I love you too much to allow you to go to sleep (Ether 8:24) on this one. You have your free agency to do with the scriptures and the words of Christ whatever you want. Use your free agency wisely.

Brother Jim

[Jim Kelley]

Dear Thinker,

I think it is a good idea lots of people send letters that are similar but not identical.

You seem to have a good grasp on some subjects for letters.

Would you be willing to post a monthly idea, concern or request for others to follow?

If everyone who sees what you suggest encourages others to do the same maybe, just maybe, this could start thousands of letters going to Church H.Q. each month.

If The Lord wants this to happen He will provide a way if we will only do our parts.

Good idea Thinker. I think this shows you are a thinker.

May The Holy Ghost be with you and all the others to make this work.

Sincerely,

Brother Jim

[A Random Phrase]

They won't get the letters. Their secretaries will screen them out. I wish it were not so, but everything I have heard leads me to believe this.

[boo]

They won't get the letters. Their secretaries will screen them out. I wish it were not so, but everything I have heard leads me to believe this.

Heck . The secretaries have often been in control. Pres. McKays sec made it difficult for his counselors to see him but would often let in her favorite members of the hierarchy . H b Brown oftener complained about "end runs"

[Jim Kelley]

But I think we have to try. What other choices do we have?

I have been working on this for six years. My observations are most people, Mormon and non-Mormon alike, couldn't care less about the pollutions and hypocrites in The Church even if the BofM does back it up.

The advantage Kate Kelly had was her cause was popular in the world, women's rights, so the news media picked up on that.

There is a problem with what can be called the "gate keepers" who control anything and almost everything that goes to a G.A.

I am sure the gate keepers are told what the G.A.s don't want to see too.

I am thinking out loud here; perhaps we as a group could write our individual letters to The First Presidency asking a honest question about what is their interpretation of "the holy church of God" in Mormon 8:38 and be respectful, short and sweet. Perhaps indicate there is some talk on the Internet about this and the interpretations are all over the place so there is a need for an official interpretation.

If someone does get a courtesy response back post that information on this board. Don't copy The Church letter because they may get mad at you but you can report you got a letter and the meat of what was said. A courtesy letter is going to thank you for taking your time and then what ever The Church doesn't mind putting in writing.

Be prepared to have your bishop call you in for a meeting because SLC may copy your letter to him. If you feel comfortable about this just tell the bishop, or the stake president, you just want to know the official interpretation and then ask him to help find out what that is. Maybe it may take some bishops and stake presidents acting in behalf of their flock to get SLC moving on this.

I don't think SLC would dare to give an official incorrect interpretation but if the correct interpretation can be smoked out of them then maybe some other things will change for the better too.

Just some thought. Everyone is going to have to do what they think is right for them.

I know some Mormons would like to act on this but they are afraid of losing their temple recommend and that is a possibility.

About four years ago my bishop called me in and I told him I was going to be "stubborn" about what I knew about Mormon 8:33-41 and not deny it. He said he was going to enter into the Church computer my temple recommend was no longer valid. I looked him right in the eye and asked; Do you want me to just hand it to you? He acted quite surprised, hesitated and then said yes. I just handed it to him.

For me it was more important to follow Jesus Christ and the teachings of the BofM than to have a temple recommend. For me I felt I would have denied Jesus Christ by caving in just so I could keep a temple recommend.

Prayerfully consider what you want to start and do. I did and I have no regrets but I am not you.

Brother Jim

[Jim Kelley]

In about 1984 it was expressed on The Church radio show, The Spoken Word, how power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. That seems to be self-evident even though The Church ignores this as it would apply to themselves.

On Facebook I saw this quote:
“All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible.”
Frank Herbert-Dune

Frank’s observation is another of what seems to be self-evident truths and helps to explain why The Church leadership is so resistant to cooperating with the legitimate concerns of others.

Considering The Church is a modern-day nation and functions like a government; and is incorporated and follows corporate law pertaining to its leadership, I just wonder how much of Frank’s observation applies to The Church. Pathological personalities are a mental issue and that can be a harder problem to fix than just plain corruptions (“pollutions”).

Whether it is “pollutions,” “hypocrites,” corruptions and/or pathological personalities this is going to be an uphill battle and those who fight it will have to be in for the duration and for the right reasons.

Observing some of the really good things Pope Francis has done cleaning up the Catholic Church would it be possible to borrow him for a season to straighten up The Church? No that would not work because those Church leaders in power have “[sold themselves] for that which will canker [money]” (Mormon 8:38) and they are addicted and addicts don’t want help until they have hit bottom. There is no way The Church leadership will police themselves without being forced to from the outside.

I am in for the duration and that is only because I love Jesus enough to fight for His Church and the rights of the weak Saints (see Title Of Liberty Page on mormon8-38.com).

Brother Jim

[samizdat]

You seem to forget Brother Jim, that before you write a letter to an apostle, and you get a response from the apostle, you have to talk with your quorum president, then your Bishop, then your Stake President, then your Area President, then the GAs involved, IN THAT ORDER.

Lots of people forget the AREA order especially when the SP is doing things that are incorrect. Especially in the United States.

[Thinker]

Bishops, Stake Presidents and other local leaders have no say in curriculum and policy so it's best to go directly to those who do.

As mentioned, we each are unique and may be guided spiritually in unique ways. For me and I'd suggest for most, writing anonymously might be best personally and to be influencial in the long run. Online writing like on this forum can also help inspire people to think and choose God's will over imperfect peoples.'

Again, I'd suggest keeping it short and sweet about the 2 main problems:
1) Finances (Deut. 14:28-29 Leaders are supposed to give at least 1/3 of tithes to the poor)
2) Thinking distortions taught that produce excessive shame/depression and fear/anxiety.

You can write feedback online on lds.org - anonymously.

https://www.lds.org/tools/feedback?lang ... ch/leaders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even if it's just the filtering secretaries who receive it, if there's enough, and repeated similar concerns, maybe it will find its way through the filters.

[samizdat]

Bishops, Stake Presidents and other local leaders have no say in curriculum and policy so it's best to go directly to those who do.

As mentioned, we each are unique and may be guided spiritually in unique ways. For me and I'd suggest for most, writing anonymously might be best personally and to be influencial in the long run. Online writing like on this forum can also help inspire people to think and choose God's will over imperfect peoples.'

Again, I'd suggest keeping it short and sweet about the 2 main problems:
1) Finances (Deut. 14:28-29 Leaders are supposed to give at least 1/3 of tithes to the poor)
2) Thinking distortions taught that produce excessive shame/depression and fear/anxiety.

You can write feedback online on lds.org - anonymously.

https://www.lds.org/tools/feedback?lang ... ch/leaders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even if it's just the filtering secretaries who receive it, if there's enough, and repeated similar concerns, maybe it will find its way through the filters.

They don't have a say in curriculum, even so, the questions should be brought up first to the local leaders, then the area leaders, then the general leaders in that order. You write the generals when you don't get a response from your local leaders or area leaders.

[AI2.0]

The name of this board or thread is; The Polluted Holy Church Mormon Chapter Eight.

Am I safe to assume everyone here is interested in The Polluted Holy Church in some way?

I think I have made a pretty good case this is the Mormon Church and it's leaders.

Jim Kelley, not everyone who has been commenting on this thread believes the LDS church is polluted, that is NOT why we are posting so please don't make assumptions about us. Some of us are posting in defense of our church and our faith.

Deep Water says this;

How could anyone even consider a corrupt corporate institution under condemnation, to be the stone?

and the moderators are just fine with it?


Jim Kelley, an excommunicated LDS with a 'cause', uses the LDSFF board to promote his letter writing campaign?

Sushi Chef posts links to blantantly anti mormon websites and promotes the most outrageous, vicious rumors that attack the church the way the 'protocols of the elders of zion' attacked Jewish people?

What is going on here?



Does anyone else feel like the board is attracting more disgruntled and disaffected LDS? Does it seem like some out there are seeing this as a site where they can recruit others to their way of thinking or their particular cause against the church? As a believing member of the church, I'm beginning to feel outnumbered and I'm just not sure this a good place for posters who actually believe in the truth claims of the church.

I understand dissent and questions and I realize that a board needs some to make it interesting and keep discussions going, however, I'm not sure I want to be associated or spend time on a forum where negative views and criticisms of the church prevail. If the LDSFF wishes to tout itself as 'pro' LDS, then I think critical and disaffected views ought to be in the minority.

[marc]

There is already a disclaimer at the bottom of the forum that this site is not an official site of the LDS church. But that does not mean that latter day saints, for which this forum was created, should feel guilty about discussing issues that may be important to them. There seems to be an inherent conflict between the attitude or philosophy of staying quiet, toeing the line and using persuasion, longsuffering, love unfeigned when discussing issues and important matters.

[buffalo_girl]

You seem to forget Brother Jim, that before you write a letter to an apostle, and you get a response from the apostle, you have to talk with your quorum president, then your Bishop, then your Stake President, then your Area President, then the GAs involved, IN THAT ORDER.

Lots of people forget the AREA order especially when the SP is doing things that are incorrect. Especially in the United States.

Things have indeed changed over the years!

I had a couple of face-to-face visits with Apostles in my younger years and one, in depth, 'emergency' telephone conversation with an Apostle - which I placed from a pay phone - regarding a much loved relative who had donated his body to a medical school without family input. While working on a KUED television project, one of The 70 spent close to an hour visiting with me on various subjects - just because, I guess. No appointment....

[samizdat]

You seem to forget Brother Jim, that before you write a letter to an apostle, and you get a response from the apostle, you have to talk with your quorum president, then your Bishop, then your Stake President, then your Area President, then the GAs involved, IN THAT ORDER.

Lots of people forget the AREA order especially when the SP is doing things that are incorrect. Especially in the United States.

Things have indeed changed over the years!

I had a couple of face-to-face visits with Apostles in my younger years and one, in depth, 'emergency' telephone conversation with an Apostle - which I placed from a pay phone - regarding a much loved relative who had donated his body to a medical school without family input. While working on a KUED television project, one of The 70 spent close to an hour visiting with me on various subjects - just because, I guess. No appointment....

The Church is much bigger than it was 60 years ago (NO stakes that weren't English speaking), 30 years ago (still 75 percent of the membership in the USA) or even 10 years ago. The Apostles and Seventies don't have as much free time as before. Even the Area Seventies are quite worked. In the mission the same chain of command structure is used.

[ajax]

Do you know how many [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here] losers Muerte Rosa would be calling the Twelve for every little jot and tittle? I kinda get it.

[Obrien]

To clarify, Obrien's favorite swear word is [Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here], not "[Insert Obrien's favorite curse word here]".

:))

[Jim Kelley]

I don't think I, or some others here, have advocated going to The First Presidency about every little frivolous thing.

What I have advocated is The First Presidency speak out on the official interpretation of "the holy church of God" which as a Prophet of God they have an obligation and duty to do.

I have tried to work with local leaders on this and they refuse to do anything except excommunicate.

I am not doing this because I am disgruntled; I was doing this before the Mock Trials.

This board or thread is named The Polluted Holy Church so anything related to a polluted church is relevant on this board.

The outline suggested of going through local leaders first, is that policy in the secret manuals?

By the way I specifically asked before, when someone boldly said they were on the Internet in plain sight, for a link to the secret Leadership Policy Manuals and no one can come up with one.

Remember those who hunted down and persecuted the protesters like John Wesley and Martin Luther were defending their church and faith at that time too.

I base what I am doing on the Words of Jesus Christ right in The Book Of Mormon and not some Kool-aid.

The mere fact The First Presidency ignores requests for the interpretation of "the holy church of God" but has time to plan and build the City Creek Center Mall, as well as other similar projects, is pretty good proof they are selective in not answering the question. That speaks volumes.

One of the main duties of a Prophet is to interpret scripture. This "holy church of God" scripture is one of the most important scriptures in The Book Of Mormon and is causing an uproar in The Church. Any prudent person can see it is past time The Prophet gave an official interpretation.

the official interpretation may come in the next General Conference. That is a little more than a month away. I am going to watch and see what happens.

Obviously the more letters that are sent, even if they all don't get to a G.A., the more likely we will hear something about the name of this board or thread, "The Polluted Holy Church" in the next Conference. I am praying that will happen.

[Thinker]

I see this as potentially more influential than signing an online petition, though that may have/had influence too.

For a while now, I've hoped and prayed for the impossible - for the church leaders to correct their ways in regards to tithes and certain modern teachings.
I thought the best way to work toward that prayer's hope was to be the change I wanted to see and encourage others. And I am doing that, but maybe writing to GAs will be a more efficient, faster way to get this church more in line with Christ's teachings. God knows this is an urgent matter for many!

Besides the church's website feedback...
https://www.lds.org/tools/feedback?lang ... ch/leaders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another option is to contact GAs/secretaries by phone or snail mail...

The main operator at Church headquarters can be reached at (U.S.) 1-800-453-3860
The Church may also be contacted at the following mailing address:
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84150
USA

Just address the envelope to the department you want to reach (e.g., Welfare and Donations, Curriculum Department, etc.)

[Jim Kelley]

Here is a letter that did get through.

You read this letter to President Monson, it is self-explanatory, and then I will tell you how I know this letter did get through.

March 10, 2013
Subject: Unethical Church Court Practice

Dear President Thomas S. Monson,

Over a year ago there was a Church Court on me. In my appeals documents I outlined how The Stake President presented a tainted and flawed document and other information, without my knowledge, just before I was allowed to enter the Church Court room. I presented how this was unethical and illegal in government courts as this is the same as tampering with the jury.

I had a conversation with one of the High Councilmen, who attended my Church Court earlier, today at the Ward Building. He advised me this is a common practice for the stake president to bring the high council up to speed on the circumstances for the church court just before the court.

Obviously there is a Church Policy to allow this unethical practice or there is no Church Policy to forbid this unethical practice. Is there any reasonable thinking person who would not think this unethical practice should be reviewed and corrected according to the principles of The Gospel Of Jesus Christ? The Gospel stipulates “the Lord worketh not in secret combinations” (Ether 8:19). So if the Lord worketh not in secret combinations why should a stake president be permitted or allowed to?

When a member is “invited to attend [their] disciplinary council” they should be given the benefit of the doubt before and during that Church Court until the evidence and testimony given in that open Church court proves them to be guilty at a level that would warrant any Church action against them. To introduce any information, evidence or testimony before the appearance of the person charged, without their knowledge, is totally unethical and a violation of the letter and spirit of The Gospel Of Jesus Christ. Does the Lord’s Prophet think this is acceptable? Please let me know.

In my case President Thedell not only tampered with the High Council before the Court but also failed to forward my appeals documents to The First Presidency which obviously interfered with my due process to a fair appeals review. How fair and ethical can that be?

I would be most interested in what The Lord’s Prophet’s opinion is on this subject. Perhaps The Lord’s Prophet is unaware there are stake presidents presenting tainted and flawed information before opening a Church court in an obvious attempt to win the high council their way because a fair and open presentation of the facts and truth would prove the person NOT guilty of anything.

I am reminded of D&C 121:39, “We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.” I have learned by sad experience my Stake President is that kind of person. Please remember this scripture did NOT exclude Church leaders.

Respectfully submitted,
Brother Jim Kelley, Bolivar Ward, Springfield, Mo. Stake


The reason I know this letter got though is about a month after I sent it I got an urgent phone call that President Thedell wanted to meet with me right away. We met during the week, the rest of the Stake Offices were empty, and I got the garsh awfulest butt chewing ever from both President Thedell and President Jarvis. Both Presidents tried for an hour to beguile me into saying I was the one who introduced the “tainted and flawed document.” I held fast and strong to what I knew to be true, and I knew other high councilmen knew to, and that was this document was introduced to the high council in secret before I was allowed to enter the Church Court Room (high council room).

Finally I was allowed to leave and President Thedell and I had an e-mail exchange. I e-mailed him that I double checked my file on what I presented to the High Council and I absolutely did not ever give any high councilman a copy of the tainted and flawed document. I got a most interesting reply, no doubt damage control, from President Thedell stating; That was what we all knew from the very start.

I still have the e-mail.

Obviously SLC did inquire (no investigation) by asking President Thedell if he had introduced any documents to the high council before I was allowed to enter the room. Just as obvious President Thedell told them he had not done any such thing and the urgent meeting was to try to get me to collaborate his lie by attempting to bully me into saying I did something I knew, and others knew, I had not done. President Thedell wanted desperately to be able to report back to SLC that I admitted I had given the tainted and flawed document to the high council and not him. I would bet President Thedell reported this lie back to SLC anyway.

Incidents like these are exactly why a Church General Complaint Department is desperately needed in The Church. In this case a Complaint Department would investigate my complaint, perhaps asking some of the high councilmen too if they are good investigators, and then report back to me on official Church stationary. If someone lied I would then have a chance to challenge that lie. As it is now conversations inquiring about misconduct among Church leaders are secret and the complainant is left completely out.

The tainted and flawed document later got the name The Stupid Letter With No Name. To view this stupid letter go to Mormon8-38.com, Mock Trial Page (button just under the picture of Moroni) and Article #2 is this letter.


I could put up a thousand pages of documents and information like this but I haven’t because the naysayers don’t believe what I have revealed. Probably this is the exact same reason Jesus did not give The Church the sealed 2/3s of the Gold Plates. Jesus knew the naysayers, the majority of Mormons with pride today, "save a few only," (Mormon 8:36) wouldn’t believe the first 1/3 so why give them more.

Brother Jim

[Thomas]

Things will not change Jim. You are wasting your time and effort. It would be better spent trying to establish Zion.

[Jim Kelley]

Here is a letter I got from The Church.

Elder Jonathan C. Roberts in a letter addressed to me after he viewed some legitimate Formal Complaints to The First Presidency that were included in my Appeals Documents, that were never sent by President Thedell to The First Presidency, for the First “Stomp On Jesus,” Mock Trial, Church Court. Elder Roberts writes:

“Dear Brother Jim,”

“Please be advised that no further action is needed on your part. As you might suppose, I kindly make you aware that follow-up by myself or the Brethren in any of the items you have brought to our attention will be attended to as we see fit in a confidential manner and will not be reported back to you.”

“Sincerely,” [Oh really, you are being sincere? Is this NOT proof positive Elder Roberts is a “hypocrite” that is “polluting the holy church of God?”]

“Jonathan C. Roberts”
“Area Seventy”

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

Can anyone believe a Representative of Jesus Christ would say such a thing? Where is the Gift Of The Holy Ghost in all of this?

This letter was in a large package which also contained the two appeals booklets so Elder Roberts obviously had access to my appeals documents that were NOT sent to The First Presidency by President Thedell and obviously has no excuse he did not have a chance to read them. In my opinion it is amazing anyone would read these appeals documents and not see all the red flags against President Thedell.

Just a side note: The package Elder Roberts sent back to me had no return address and had “postage due” stamped all over it. I am not kidding. ;)

[Jim Kelley]

My dear Thomas,

I am thankful for your concern and comment, "Things will not change Jim. You are wasting your time and effort. It would be better spent trying to establish Zion."

Not according to Jesus Christ efforts like mine are not wasted. Jesus commands we awake to bad things including in The Church (Ether 8:24).

What kind of Zion will there be to establish if The Church is "polluted?"

Maybe this is why The Church will eventually move to Independence, MO. to establish Zion there because the Utah Church will have become to corrupted. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

But to just forget about the "pollutoins" and "hypocrites" Jesus personally caused to have published in The Book Of Mormon would be essentially denying Jesus Christ and The Book Of Mormon. What kind of Zion would we have if we deny Jesus Christ and The Book Of Mormon? A person might as well join the Catholic Church. At least there Pope Francis is trying to weed out the corruptions.

That brings up a good point. If Pope Francis has time to do some clean up in the Catholic Church then why doesn't our First Presidency have time to do some house cleaning in The Church?

Bro. Jim

[Thomas]

God will work outside the church. He will not take away agency and the system is too entrenched. I do not think the church will be part of Zion.