LDS Freedom Forum

Jim Kelley wrote:Some might say, "I know that the vast majority of the GAs honor their priesthood."

If any GAs honored their priesthood then they would make moves to eliminate the secret Church Leadership Manuals that are used to persecute the Saints for just telling the truth.

Sections that require the punishment of those who tell the truth should be eliminated immediately!

All Church Policy Manuals should be available for inspection in every meeting house library.

Why keep anything secret? Why does The True Church have a problem with the truth?

There is no one who is mortal, except perhaps a mother and a wife, that knows any man well enough to speak for their character.

Jesus Christ knows all and He has assigned the title of "hypocrites" to the GAs. Prideful Mormons beef is with Jesus Christ and He will talk to everyone of you about this on Judgment Day (Moroni 10:27).

For anyone to even suggest any, let alone all or most, of the GAs honor their priesthood is pure folly.

JEsus assigned that title to the Pharisees in Jerusalem. He also assigns it to people like you.

It seems you have some beef over an excommunication, whether of yourself or of another friend of yours like Dehlin or Kelly or Snuffer. Or of the Sep 6.

You sound much like Korihor when he accused the priests of living off the masses when that was not the case. Repent ye.

samizdat wrote:

Jim Kelley wrote:Some might say, "I know that the vast majority of the GAs honor their priesthood."

If any GAs honored their priesthood then they would make moves to eliminate the secret Church Leadership Manuals that are used to persecute the Saints for just telling the truth.

Sections that require the punishment of those who tell the truth should be eliminated immediately!

All Church Policy Manuals should be available for inspection in every meeting house library.

Why keep anything secret? Why does The True Church have a problem with the truth?

There is no one who is mortal, except perhaps a mother and a wife, that knows any man well enough to speak for their character.

Jesus Christ knows all and He has assigned the title of "hypocrites" to the GAs. Prideful Mormons beef is with Jesus Christ and He will talk to everyone of you about this on Judgment Day (Moroni 10:27).

For anyone to even suggest any, let alone all or most, of the GAs honor their priesthood is pure folly.

JEsus assigned that title to the Pharisees in Jerusalem. He also assigns it to people like you.

It seems you have some beef over an excommunication, whether of yourself or of another friend of yours like Dehlin or Kelly or Snuffer. Or of the Sep 6.

You sound much like Korihor when he accused the priests of living off the masses when that was not the case. Repent ye.

It is pure folly to suggest that the GAs don't honor their Priesthood. Do you honor yours, if you still have it?

Because if you have been excommunicated, all of your rights have been taken away.

Remember that in the Book of Mormon those that failed to repent of their sins and transgressions against the Lord were removed from the books (excommunication).

And what secret leadership manuals do you refer to? Handbook 1, which is easily accessible on the Internet? Or the Mission President's Handbook which is also quite accessible?

Here is absolute proof there is no absolute promise from Jesus Christ the Mormon Church will not be destroyed, or at least will not be diminished into basic nonexistence, no matter what happens or no matter what Mormons do.

Mormons today seem to think, “But in the end the Church will still be strong and will still be the vehicle by which God establishes his kingdom here on earth” no matter what the Mormons do because it is set in stone as promises and prophecy from God. By this logic most Mormons seem to think it does not matter if “hypocrites” have “polluted the holy church of God” because The Church’s holy destiny is to stay God’s holy church on earth and will triumphantly do The Lord’s Work to the very end.

Apparently the Mormons of the 19th Century and President Wilford Woodruff didn’t think this was a correct principle and the proof is in Official Declaration-1.

Referring to the condition of The Church being bullied by the U.S. Federal Government over the issue of polygamy President Woodruff said, “The Lord showed me by vision and revelation” what would happen to The Church if polygamy was not discontinued. What would happen was The Church would cease, for all practical purposes, to even exist and would fail in its mission to take The Gospel to all the world. Jesus Christ showed President Woodruff this!

As we see in Declaration-1 President Woodruff did not tell The Lord some foolish thing like, Lord, did you not promise no matter what “The Church in the end will still be strong and will still be the vehicle by which God establishes his kingdom here on earth.” Lord, why should we worry now? It is set in stone and there is nothing that can change all of this.

President Woodruff did not tell The Lord any such foolish thing because he knew the correct principle of free agency “and when we obtain any blessings from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:21).

For The Church to stay strong and do The Lord’s Work it has to be obedient to the laws of The Gospel as set forth in the scriptures. The Mormon General Authorities have perverted this correct principle to being obedient to The President and Prophet of The Church even if there is a clear contradiction between what The Prophet says and what The Gospel Principles are in scripture says.

This has been expressed as follow the living Prophet no matter what past Prophets and the scriptures say because the living Prophet knows better what we need today. Really???

The concept the living Prophet knows us and our circumstances better than any past Prophet ignores the fact that Jesus Christ was, is and always will be a Prophet of God and who knows anything better than Jesus Christ?

In the case of Jesus Christ’s Warning (Mormon 8:33-41 and Chapter Nine) Jesus Christ has made His Knowledge and His Will clear and that supersedes anything The First Presidency and The Twelve say individually or collectively. It is mere foolishness for them to contradict Jesus Christ on anything especially since they are supposed to be “special witnesses to the world for Jesus Christ.” When they contradict Jesus Christ doesn’t that make them “hypocrites?”

There will always be those uninformed and stiff necked that will try to attack the messenger when the truth is delivered.

For everyone's information and curiosity, yes I was excommunicated and the documents of that Mock Trial can be read on my website in the Mock Trial Page. Anyone interested in the truth? Or do you just want to throw mud and hope something sticks?

Like I have said anyone who has a beef with Jesus Christ's Warning has a beef with Jesus Christ and He will discuss it with you on Judgment Day (Moroni 10:27). I very well may be there as a witness too.

Moroni will be one witness and the scriptures are plain that in the mouth of two or three witnesses will every word be established.

Think this over very carefully if you value your eternal life.

Jim Kelley wrote:Here is absolute proof there is no absolute promise from Jesus Christ the Mormon Church will not be destroyed, or at least will not be diminished into basic nonexistence, no matter what happens or no matter what Mormons do.

Mormons today seem to think, “But in the end the Church will still be strong and will still be the vehicle by which God establishes his kingdom here on earth” no matter what the Mormons do because it is set in stone as promises and prophecy from God. By this logic most Mormons seem to think it does not matter if “hypocrites” have “polluted the holy church of God” because The Church’s holy destiny is to stay God’s holy church on earth and will triumphantly do The Lord’s Work to the very end.

Apparently the Mormons of the 19th Century and President Wilford Woodruff didn’t think this was a correct principle and the proof is in Official Declaration-1.

Referring to the condition of The Church being bullied by the U.S. Federal Government over the issue of polygamy President Woodruff said, “The Lord showed me by vision and revelation” what would happen to The Church if polygamy was not discontinued. What would happen was The Church would cease, for all practical purposes, to even exist and would fail in its mission to take The Gospel to all the world. Jesus Christ showed President Woodruff this!

As we see in Declaration-1 President Woodruff did not tell The Lord some foolish thing like, Lord, did you not promise no matter what “The Church in the end will still be strong and will still be the vehicle by which God establishes his kingdom here on earth.” Lord, why should we worry now? It is set in stone and there is nothing that can change all of this.

President Woodruff did not tell The Lord any such foolish thing because he knew the correct principle of free agency “and when we obtain any blessings from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:21).

For The Church to stay strong and do The Lord’s Work it has to be obedient to the laws of The Gospel as set forth in the scriptures. The Mormon General Authorities have perverted this correct principle to being obedient to The President and Prophet of The Church even if there is a clear contradiction between what The Prophet says and what The Gospel Principles are in scripture says.

This has been expressed as follow the living Prophet no matter what past Prophets and the scriptures say because the living Prophet knows better what we need today. Really???

The concept the living Prophet knows us and our circumstances better than any past Prophet ignores the fact that Jesus Christ was, is and always will be a Prophet of God and who knows anything better than Jesus Christ?

In the case of Jesus Christ’s Warning (Mormon 8:33-41 and Chapter Nine) Jesus Christ has made His Knowledge and His Will clear and that supersedes anything The First Presidency and The Twelve say individually or collectively. It is mere foolishness for them to contradict Jesus Christ on anything especially since they are supposed to be “special witnesses to the world for Jesus Christ.” When they contradict Jesus Christ doesn’t that make them “hypocrites?”

The Lord sees everything from the beginning, brother Jim. NOTHING gets out of his hands.

Different times in the world call for different types of leaders to keep the Kingdom rolling forth. We hear that the Church is one generation away from extinction. At the same time we hear that the Church will never fall away. Who is right? The correct answer is that both answers are correct.

The Lord sees everything from a higher dimension. We are limited in thinking to three dimensions. The movie "INTERSTELLAR" really taught me that important lesson. Because the Lord sees the end from the beginning, and all possible moves that could happen, He sends His Spirit to persuade us and guide us to the correct places. So from one point of view, the Church is one generation away from extinction, which is true, as it was true in the days of President Woodruff, and as it is true, in the days of President Monson. The Spirit moves upon President Woodruff and the Quorum of the Twelve to issue the Manifesto on the date of Atonement on the Jewish Calendar, 10 Tishrei 5651. Quite a few people objected to that like todays' Kingstons and Harmistons, and were seperated from the Church. The Church continued on however.

Why do I mention Yom Kippur? Because it is a day of judgment. The day of seperating the wheat from the tares. The day of sacrificing the animal sent for YAHWEH and the day of leaving the animal sent for AZAZAEL to the desert to die. Constantly the Church makes changes in policy.

If my day-year calendar is correct, we are currently in Erev Yom Kippur and next year is Yom Kippur. Big things will happen, I think the ending of the Times of the Gentiles.

And yet we see that the Church will never fall again. Look at Daniel's prophecy of the stone cut out from the mountains that will fill the whole earth. That is possible because the Apostles and Prophets are in constant communication with Him who moves the Spirit to guide us along better trails to further His work. There will be those as you say that will not heed the warnings of Christ and will fall into the sins described in Moroni 8. But we have assurances from the Scriptures that the Lord's Church has been built, for the last time, to be present when Moschiach ben Yehudah returns.

Jim Kelley wrote:There will always be those uninformed and stiff necked that will try to attack the messenger when the truth is delivered.

For everyone's information and curiosity, yes I was excommunicated and the documents of that Mock Trial can be read on my website in the Mock Trial Page. Anyone interested in the truth? Or do you just want to throw mud and hope something sticks?

Like I have said anyone who has a beef with Jesus Christ's Warning has a beef with Jesus Christ and He will discuss it with you on Judgment Day (Moroni 10:27). I very well may be there as a witness too.

Moroni will be one witness and the scriptures are plain that in the mouth of two or three witnesses will every word be established.

Think this over very carefully if you value your eternal life.

Why am I not surprised? You have been visited by a false angel masquerading as an angel of light.

Before anyone says, "Why am I not surprised? You have been visited by a false angel masquerading as an angel of light," they may want to investigate the facts. The same kinds of people accused Joseph Smith of the same things because they did not know the truth.

Look at Daniel's prophecy of the stone cut out from the mountains that will fill the whole earth.
The stone is the Rock, it is the Christ. His Gospel, through his personal direction, will fill the whole earth under his rule, during the millennium.

A reference to the stone would be the word of God, received from the hand of God, to Moses. Its God and Gods words that constitute the stone.There is NO unholiness found in it!

Welcome to the forum, Jim.
Jim, I love you. I would invite you to return. Which type of "GAs" do you prefer? You decide.

Jim Kelley wrote:There will always be those uninformed and stiff necked that will try to attack the messenger when the truth is delivered.

For everyone's information and curiosity, yes I was excommunicated and the documents of that Mock Trial can be read on my website in the Mock Trial Page. Anyone interested in the truth? Or do you just want to throw mud and hope something sticks?

Like I have said anyone who has a beef with Jesus Christ's Warning has a beef with Jesus Christ and He will discuss it with you on Judgment Day (Moroni 10:27). I very well may be there as a witness too.

Moroni will be one witness and the scriptures are plain that in the mouth of two or three witnesses will every word be established.

Think this over very carefully if you value your eternal life.

Well, you'll find yourself in good company here.

Welcome to the board, from one of the 'stiff necked and uninformed' who rejects your perception of 'truth'.

brrgilbert, I wish I could e-mail you so I can get more help from you.

Just an observation: Apparently you don't love others enough for you to make e-mailing an option for them.

There is a lot of misinformation going around. for example:

"If any GAs, (which GAs ?), honored their Priesthood then they would make moves to eliminate the secret Church Leadership Manuals, that are used to persecute the Saints for just telling the truth. (There are no secrets, Jim, all things are revealed on the internet.)"

The new Church Leadership Policy Manuals were on the Internet right after they were handed out about 5 or 6 years ago. The Church threatened a law suit and that was taken off the Internet. The Church sure doesn't have them on their website.

Honest question: Can anyone give me a link to the complete Church Leadership Policy Manuals. Remember these are a set of two.

Jim, I do love you and you are welcome to P.M. me. I care. You are a good person, inside. Bad things happen to good people, Jim. A mistake doesn't equate to condemnation when one is repentant. We have all come up short. I would be glad to erase any or all comments that you see fit. You choose.

brrgilbert,

Two quick items:

1. Internet is a proper noun and should be capitalized.

2. Please, please, please, never remove your post. It is absolutely priceless. ;)

Brother Jim

deep water wrote:Look at Daniel's prophecy of the stone cut out from the mountains that will fill the whole earth.
Only a foolish person would not know the stone is the Rock, it is the Christ. His Gospel, through his personal direction, will fill the whole earth under his rule, during the millennium. How could anyone even consider a corrupt corporate institution under condemnation, to be the stone?

Who would? Only millions of LDS members who believe and are taught that the scripture is referring to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, which is found in the Lord's only true church on the earth, that's who.

A reference to the stone would be the word of God, received from the hand of God, to Moses. Its God and Gods words that constitute the stone.There is NO unholiness found in it!

I bolded your statement because I want to remind you, this is supposed to be a pro-LDS website. I would constitute your statement above as Anti-Mormon.

brrgilbert,

I think you are probably a good person too.

Let's talk.

My e-mail is available so you could give me your e-mail address and perhaps later we can talk on the phone.

I love you too Brother.

Brother Jim

Some things are just the right thing to do and some things are a commandment to do. To “awaken to a sense of your awful situation, because of” secret combinations that are and will persist in The Church is just right and a commandment (Ether 8:24). May I remind others this revelation in Ether is applicable to “nations” (verse 25).

Modern Day Israel, referring to The Church, has been referred to by The Church leadership as a nation. 15 million people with a President fits the definition of a nation.

The only reason I am sounding the lone voice of warning, like John The Baptist did, is because it is the right thing to do and also a commandment from Jesus Christ.

I have put on my website some time ago I am not seeking reinstatement. I will absolutely not consider being rebaptized because that would be an admission of guilt. I am confident in the Lord’s own due time He will personally reverse the wrongful excommunication most probably in front of all those who raised a hand or put their signatures to the outcome. I actually have no hard feelings towards any of these men except The First Presidency who makes the policy. All the others, at least in their own minds, were just following orders and policy.

In the mean time I am enjoying visiting only those I want to visit (no home teaching list), giving my charity contributions to those I know really need it, my 10% raise, not having to wear hot and sticky garments in the Summer, not having a calling, etc. Actually the thing I fear the most is The Lord pointing out to me later that I have enjoyed my vacation way too much.

I talked to the Stake President about the Church Court before it happened and I informed him if I lose The Gift Of The Holy Ghost I will come crawling back because I will know then that I was wrong. I bear testimony I have not lost any spiritual gifts and my life has been blessed exceedingly since the excommunication even more so than before.

Here is my prospective about my testimony:
1. Jesus is The Christ and that will never change.
2. Joseph Smith was, is and will always be a Prophet of God. That is not going to change.
3. The Book Of Mormon, if not changed, is The Word of God and the most correct and trustworthy book of scripture we have now. That will never change.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints started out being “the holy church of God” however, that could change to a lower designation of The True Church. The True Church only means Jesus Christ organized it and it does have the keys of the priesthood. There is nothing else needed.
5. As far as the Apostles and Prophets (GA) I am only sure of one thing and that is they still have and control the keys of the priesthoods.

My wife is a Primary teacher and last week she taught the principle of honesty and whom you can trust. Among the ones you can trust were Church leaders and parents. Then one little girl asked a most profound question, “What if you catch them in a lie?”

This was a very good question that deserves some attention and consideration. What do you do? Can you really trust that person ever again? This is why it is so important, especially for General Authorities, to never tell a lie or do anything that would even give the appearance of evil. Does that sound familiar?

The lessons of the world say, “Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice shame on me.” It is imprudent to ever fully trust someone again who has lied or deceived you before.

I have to tell another really cute Primary story my wife told me. My wife was teaching about good things and bad things for our bodies as taught in The Word Of Wisdom. The subject of “cigarettes” came up and one little girl asked, “Sister Kelley, what is a cigarette?” Isn’t that just super sweet? Little children can be really innocent and close to the Spirit of God. I love this story.

In closing let me repeat The Church is true and I have full faith and confidence in Jesus Christ and His ability to right every wrong we suffer in this life.

Bro. Jim

The name of this board or thread is; The Polluted Holy Church Mormon Chapter Eight.

Am I safe to assume everyone here is interested in The Polluted Holy Church in some way?

I think I have made a pretty good case this is the Mormon Church and it's leaders.

I think many have assumed that I think the rank and file members, Mormons, are the problem. I think the rank and file members, Mormons, are not the main problem but I put the "pollutions" cause by the "hypocrites" squarely on the shoulders of the General Authorities.

Actually many of the kinds of problems we are experiencing with the rank and file members are the same as when The Church was first organized and was still "the holy church of God." As I have said before I believe The Church is still True because Jesus Christ personally organized it and The Church still has the keys of the priesthoods.

My question for all is; If the polluted holy church is not the Mormon Church then which church is it?

Please remember this church has to be a latter-day church (1st and 2nd person, present tense pronouns) and also qualify as the "holy church of God" meaning Jesus Christ would have had to personally organize it, have the true priesthoods of God and other ordinances like temple.

I am just curious what other options there could even be. Give me your comments please.

Thank you all in advance.

Deep water wrote; Look at Daniel's prophecy of the stone cut out from the mountains that will fill the whole earth.
Only a foolish person would not know the stone is the Rock, it is the Christ. His Gospel, through his personal direction, will fill the whole earth under his rule, during the millennium. How could anyone even consider a corrupt corporate institution under condemnation, to be the stone?

A12.0 wrote; I bolded your statement because I want to remind you, this is supposed to be a pro-LDS website. I would constitute your statement above as Anti-Mormon.

Deep water Wrote; How could anyone even consider a corrupt corporate institution under condemnation, to be the stone?

How did you discern that I was referring to what you warn me against, if you didn't recognize the remark as referring to your inference in the first place?

The forum's curator has already ruled upon the words "LDSFF" and the understanding of just what a pro-LDS site means to him. I won't put words in his mouth, you are free to say what you want. As for me "Truth Rules".

My dear Brother [if you are a Sister, Sister] Samizdat,

I visited your website and congratulations, very useful.

I noticed a quote from Brigham Young in which while he was expounding on the virtues of free agency he counseled while exercising free agency we should “not infringe upon other’s rights, save by good advice and a good example.”

May I ask you, Brother, how your post, “Why am I not surprised? You have been visited by a false angel masquerading as an angel of light,” is good advice and/or a good example?

My observation is your post seems, I am sure most would agree, to be a test book example of self-righteousness, pride and rudeness which is a part of the warnings in Mormon 8:36 which is the very subject of this board or thread.

I wonder how many Saints avoid coming to Church because of examples like this which is part of the reason Jesus Christ gave His Warning in the first place.

Question: If a Saint were to develop a website expounding on principles of free agency to “not infringe upon other’s rights, save by good advice and a good example,” and then that same Saint used their own free agency to be a bad example and give bad advice would that Saint qualify as a hypocrite (Mormon 8:38)?

My dear Brother, take this post as a good learning experience. I am sure you have by now figured out the lesson to be learned here and that is; engage brain before driving mouth. This is good advise for everyone including me.

I would say this is the best “good advice” you will get all day and it is free. ;)

I would not have said anymore about your post today except for the fact your post is such a text book example of what has been discussed on this thread and hopefully will be a good learning experience for all.

I love you Brother and I pray we can meet each other in the Celestial Kingdom of God.

Brother Jim

Jim Kelley,

In reading your comments, I am encouraged in many ways that others like you are not too blinded by herd mentality to see the obvious financial issues in top lds management.
And I appreciate that the pollution in the church must be dealt with, however in calling evil what it is, how do we maintain integrity of the rest?

I feel such a need to find and help others find a middle way. The world (media esp) is even more filled with pollutants and I see too often when members discover faults in the church, they jump from one group thought to another, engaging in the polarized distorted fallacy that "it's either true or it isn't." Really, it's much more complex with evil mingled with good - opposition in all things. Cult mentality is limited all-or-nothing thinking, and too often exiting members take with them that cult mentality but apply it to a different set of ideologies (esp Liberal), as or more harmful. You seem to have avoided this because you see paradox - good as well as bad, but many don't.

Fowler's stages of faith explain this process well - and how many people get stuck on the 3rd or 4th stages. To successfully love others as ourselves, we (as many as will) must move on from such boxed in, all-or-nothing limiting beliefs.
http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What do you think?

Dear Thinker,

I think you said a mouthful and it was all good and uplifting. A lot to think about and ponder.

My opinion is the Saints, even every member that has the spiritual gifts needed, has to stand up after awakening (Ether 8:24) and demand "the holy church of God" be restored to pre-pollution standards.

What is that going to take? I am not sure. I have suggested to The First Presidency a General Church Complaint Department where anyone, even a non-member who has been wronged by The Church, can take their complaint and get an official Church investigation and investigative response on official Church letterhead.

The General Complaint Department is the only thing I can think of that might work or at least work some.

Brother (or Sister) Thinker, here is my public e-mail. Lets do some thinking together about this.

Anyone else who might have an idea of a solution for the "pollutions" contact me too.

The more ideas the more likely we can achieve a solution that will work and The First Presidency will accept.

There is no sense thinking about splintering off or radically changing the current General Authorities because the priesthood keys are there and that is not going to change. I think The Lord expects us to work with what we have and what we have is what you see in General Conference sitting on the stand.

[email protected]

Respectfully,

Brother Jim

Samizdat stated, solely based on information I had been excommunicated; “Why am I not surprised? You have been visited by a false angel masquerading as an angel of light.”

May I remind samizdat, and others, The Three Witnesses were all excommunicated. Does anyone want to suggest they were “visited by a false angel masquerading as an angel of light?” If so then your testimony of The Book Of Mormon is nonexistent.

This post is not meant to be only criticism but a learning experience for all. Sometimes we don’t know enough information to be able to make an informative statement. If we are close to The Holy Ghost we can make an inspired statement but remember truly inspired statements will never contradict correct principles or the truth.

I love you all and may we meet in The Celestial Kingdom after this probation is over. A special reunion.

Brother Jim

Jim,
I'll also give this more thought and keep in touch.

Some take the truth to be hard - particularly when they value comfortable lies over inconvenient truths.

It is sad and frustrating to see so many people brainwashed by some type of group thought - liberal, religious, atheist etc.

One important step is for people to get over the deceptive teachings that any imperfect religious leader will never lead you wrong and we are supposed to keep silent about evil actions by them. It is worshipping false gods - not in word, but more significantly, in deed. A mediative -middle way (narrow way) approach is needed.
Maybe a substep to that would include reafirming good in GAs - as well as bad in what they say or do. Also the constant reminder is needed that truth is not bi-polar/all-or-nothing thinking.

Baby steps. You don't do a 180 in a minute with a huge ship. ;)

I have suggested others write letters to Church H.Q. To help establish I am not a hypocrite by asking others to do something I will not do myself I will post my letter to Elder Perry. He should have received his copy by now so I think is appropriate to post it here.

After reading this letter what do you think the chances are Jesus Christ's Warning, AKA, The Polluted Holy Church, will be addressed in the next General Conference?

February 17, 2015
To: Elder L. Tom Perry
Reference: Conference Talk, Oct. 1992
Subject: Jesus Christ’s Warning

Dear Elder Perry,

I wish to discuss with you what I have learned to call Jesus Christ’s Warning as recorded in Mormon 8:33-41 and all of Chapter Nine.
It is fitting to call this Jesus Christ’s Warning because the words belong to Jesus Christ (Moroni 10:27) the same as The Church Of Jesus Christ belongs to Jesus Christ and bears His Name.

Your talk came to my attention on an Internet website, LDS Freedom Forum, where someone used your talk to prove Moroni was talking to the Mormon Church in the verses related to “the holy church of God” (verse 38).

Going to your talk you did seem to elude to the fact that Moroni was talking to the Latter-day Saints however the whole message of your talk missed the central point that “Ye hypocrites, ye teachers [General Authorities],…why have ye polluted the holy church of God [the Mormon Church].” These are the Words of Christ and not mine or even Moroni’s. Obviously if Jesus Christ can say these words in The Book Of Mormon with real meaning than an Apostle of Jesus Christ can say them with real meaning in General Conference.

You missed a great opportunity to address the serious “pollutions” that have only gotten worse since your talk. You could have suggested, like I have, a Church General Complaint Department would be helpful in curbing the “pollutions” caused by the “hypocrites” who were then (in 1992) leading The True Church into apostasy. Obviously if you would have done that you would never have been advanced from an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to an Apostle. However, perhaps The True Church would have been saved from a lot of needless “pollutions” now.

There are eternal laws, connected to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that surface here and there that are good teachers. For example President George Washington, in his First Inaugural Address, stated “that there exists in the economy and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness.” If the Mormon General Authorities would have been honest and square with Jesus Christ’s Warning from the very beginning (virtue) then they could enjoy happiness now. However, since the Mormon General Authorities wanted to “transfigure,” exactly as Jesus prophesied (verse 33), Jesus Christ’s Warning then it is going to hurt more to admit to the proper and correct interpretation of Jesus Christ’s Warning now. The longer this is put off the more it will hurt later.

Now that you are an established Apostle what can the others do to you for only repeating The Words Of Christ as Jesus Christ’s Warning? Are you afraid to read a clear and precise statement, according to Proper English Grammar Rules, of Jesus Christ right out of The Book Of Mormon?

Judging from the Internet talk on the many websites that specifically address Mormon Chapters Eight and Nine the jig is up and too many people are now aware of Jesus Christ’s Warning for The Church to ignore this any longer without suffering tremendous consequences. Soon Mormon 8:38 could become a battle cry similar to, “Remember the Alamo.”

I suggest you, and perhaps others, specifically address Jesus Christ’s Warning in the next General Conference and submit a working plan to curb the “pollutions” and the “hypocrites” that are now driving The Church into apostasy. Everything you would need to know about Jesus Christ’s Warning is on my website, mormon8-38.com.

Perhaps you can improve on your talk of 1992, and change the title from, Behold, the Lord hath Shown unto Me Great and Marvelous Things, to the more appropriate title of, Why Have Ye Polluted The Holy Church Of God? Then give your talk assigning blame where blame really belongs and present a workable plan to stop the “pollutions.” I will know if your plan really works or not. If I can use your plan and several SMP people I personally know of are excommunicated then I will know it works.

Looking forward to what The Brethren have to say on this urgent subject Jesus Christ would want to be discussed in the next General Conference.

Respectfully submitted,
Brother Jim Kelley