LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:22 pm**

My rhetorical question is this:

Can a member of the Church receive revelation about something that hasn't been revealed to the presiding leaders of the Church? If so, let's assume it doesn't have to do with stewardship or how another person should act in his or her Church calling. If not explain how come.

Some random questions:
1) Can Christ appear to any member of the Church? Is the President of the Church involved in that process? If so, how?
2) Does this member have to receive the not talked about but purportedly true second anointing in the Temple before seeing Christ?
3) Can Christ reveal things to man that aren't believed in the Church?
4) Can these things not be about this man's life (salvation) but about the Gospel, Universe, Creation and so forth?
5) Can Christ reveal something to man that is at odds with the Church?
6) Could Christ give this man the record of John? Or would that have to come through the "proper" channels?
7) Could the Lord dictate to a man things that should be written unbeknownst to the leaders of the Church? Could it be considered scripture?
8) Could the Lord reveal all things from beginning to the end to a poor, unwanted man that had no authority, worldly honor and was "despised of all men"?

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:23 pm**

"And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from the foundation of the world, but have been kept hid from the wise and prudent, shall be revealed unto babes and sucklings in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times." (D&C 128:18)

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:34 pm**

Without answering each question, the simple answer to your rhetorical question is that God has promised to reveal ALL THINGS to ANYONE that exhibits faith like unto the brother of Jared.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:38 pm**

OI is correct and I'm a glutton for punsihment. I'll bite: What's the point of your questions?

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:48 pm**

durangout wrote:OI is correct and I'm a glutton for punsihment. I'll bite: What's the point of your questions?

Just getting a feel for what people do and do not believe about revelation.

It sometimes seems that people don't believe they can receive revelation about things except for stewardship over callings and families.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 12:58 pm**

Here is what I think:
1) Can Christ appear to any member of the Church?

Yes, example Abish, even those that at that certain point weren't just, like Paul and Alma, laman and lemuel...

Is the President of the Church involved in that process? No

2) Does this member have to receive the not talked about but purportedly true second anointing in the Temple before seeing Christ? No
3) Can Christ reveal things to man that aren't believed in the Church?

Yes, I think we experience this as truth unfolds to our minds during our own scripture study, things revealed may be purely personal or doctrine that we, because of where we are at that point we are open to receiving.

4) Can these things not be about this man's life (salvation) but about the Gospel, Universe, Creation and so forth? Yes

5) Can Christ reveal something to man that is at odds with the Church?

Yes, I think that is the common thread after God has established his church they either form a Zion, like in the case of Enoch and I think Melquisedec, or it becomes corrupted or some what corrupted.

6) Could Christ give this man the record of John? Yes Or would that have to come through the "proper" channels? No

7) Could the Lord dictate to a man things that should be written unbeknownst to the leaders of the Church? Yes Could it be considered scripture? Yes, anything that the spirit confirms to you is truth from where ever it may come from or whom ever it may come from.

8) Could the Lord reveal all things from beginning to the end to a poor, unwanted man that had no authority, worldly honor and was "despised of all men"? Yes, It seems mostly likely the case for me, if the church is corrupted, then pride has set in and the Lord picks the humble to teach the prideful...

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 1:06 pm**

Since you mentioned stewardship, I will answer a few questions you didn't ask.

I believe that it is sadly necessary for any earthly organization to have an individual who is the final word regarding the stance of the organization on matters of doctrine. Otherwise you would have (in fact you still do) individuals spouting pretty much everything that they can come up with as doctrine.

The spirit is and should be the final word for each of us regarding what to accept and what to reject. But again, as making the final call IN BEHALF of the organization, it is a sad necessity that someone must be the final authority. I am totally fine with this and understand it.

I don't think that muzzles anyone else, but of course it is incumbent on each of us to determine what is to be shared, what is not to be shared, and HOW it ought to be shared.

I can say "I believe..." of even "I have had revealed to me...." but if we are not repeating what is in the Official Playbook of the Church we should NOT say "The LDS church teaches...." or "As a Latter-Day Saint I believe..." or similar.

I also tend to be wary of people who make too big of a deal about having moved on from milk to meat, or that show disdain for the milk or those that are still being nourished by the milk. It is like graduating from primary and then mocking those that are still in primary or stating that primary is irrelevant or should be done away with. I think of if I saw a young man of the Aaronic priesthood or a young woman belittling younger kids for having only a "primary" level of understanding. The truth is, most who are feasting on meat only reached that point due to the process of where the milk led them.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 1:14 pm**

I think we have created a culture of leaning. Like a child relies on their parents for all things, many have spiritually leaned on "the church", their entire life. Too many are afraid to stand independent of anyone or anything else. This is just my opinion, but personal manifestations, revelations, angels, even Christ wouldn't visit someone who couldn't stand fast. (I understand there are exceptions).

Now, to lean on Christ; that's a sound and solid support that will never fall and never move.

I would answer your question about God showing someone the creation process, or Johns vision as a "yes". I believe God is willing to show them. But, like many, he may tell/command them to tell no one. Other, he may give them liberty to share. It's for us to listen and see if we will follow.

Lastly, "being at odds with the church", God words don't contradict or confuse. Our interpretation or understanding will, but when He speaks, His words don't return to Him void.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 1:38 pm**

AGStacker wrote:8) Could the Lord reveal all things from beginning to the end to a poor, unwanted man that had no authority, worldly honor and was "despised of all men"?

Depends on what you mean by authority. He may very well have real authority

Maybe the way the scriptures use the word authority is not the same way the church uses the word authority. The church uses the word authority to mean that a man has permission to do certain things in the church. It seems to me that that is a very different definition of authority than when the scriptures say that someone taught with power and authority, such as Christ and the sons of Mosiah. Even D&C 121 talks about men who "get a little authority, as they suppose", which is not necessarily authority recognized by heaven.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 1:56 pm**

My answers in blue - and I also want to say I really appreciate and agree with many of the previous posts in this thread.

Some random questions:
1) Can Christ appear to any member of the Church? Of course! Is the President of the Church involved in that process? Nope. If so, how?
2) Does this member have to receive the not talked about but purportedly true second anointing in the Temple before seeing Christ? Nope.
3) Can Christ reveal things to man that aren't believed in the Church? Most definitely. But I would add the caveat, "that aren't currently believed by most in the Church."
4) Can these things not be about this man's life (salvation) but about the Gospel, Universe, Creation and so forth? Absolutely!
5) Can Christ reveal something to man that is at odds with the Church? This one, I believe, gets taken advantage of greatly; but my answer is still yes.
6) Could Christ give this man the record of John? Yes. Or would that have to come through the "proper" channels? If by "proper" channels you mean via someone else in the Church - no. If you mean via the Holy Ghost, then yes.
7) Could the Lord dictate to a man things that should be written unbeknownst to the leaders of the Church? Sure, but he better be careful who he shares it with, and have very clear instruction from the LORD on the matter.Could it be considered scripture? For that man, absolutely. Somewhere in the Doctrine & Covenants it describes how and what we are to accept as new scripture for the body of the Church - I believe those instructions should be followed. Some things are scripture to me personally, that may not be scripture for anyone else in the Church. ;)
8) Could the Lord reveal all things from beginning to the end to a poor, unwanted man that had no authority, worldly honor and was "despised of all men"? Yes!

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 6:45 pm**

God can do what he wants.
Its us peanuts who make up rules as to what he can or can't do.
Fwiw, that 2nd anointing is very real and happens.
If he only talks though LDS "prophets", on the evidence, he doesnt seem to do much, and likes his money spent on buildings and malls. Rather contradictory to his scriptures and earthly ministry

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 6:54 pm**

I know of a Sister who had an Apostle come to her house. He gave her a blessing and told her that the Lord was pleased in the way that she has lived her life and for taking good care of her disabled daughter. In the blessing it was also pronounced that her sins were forgiven. She then stated that after the blessing this Apostle invited her to the temple where she met with other leaders. She wouldn't go further into details because it was a matter of most sacredness. She then bore testimony of the truthfulness of The Gospel. Interesting to say the least.

Posted: **October 11th, 2013, 6:59 pm**

Here is a good blog post on this topic:
http://upwardthought.blogspot.com/2013/ ... hurch.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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