LDS Freedom Forum

Stemming from a conversation held elsewhere, here is the order of prophetic 'succession'. Who do you think will be the next prophet?

President Packer, 89 years old, frail health
Elder Perry, 91 years old.
Elder Nelson, 89 years old
Elder Oaks, 81 years old
Elder Ballard, 84 years old
Elder Scott, 84 years old, not the greatest of health
Elder Hales, 81 years old, not the greatest of health
Elder Holland, 72 years old!!!!!
President Eyring, 80 years old
President Uchtdorf, 72 years old!!!!!
Elder Bednar, 61 years old!!!!!
Elder Cook, 73 years old!!!!!
Elder Christofferson, 68 years old!!!!!
Elder Andersen, 62 years old!!!!!

IDK, but it's pretty amazing that we can know in advance who the next Prophet(s) will be by simply looking at a seating chart.

ajax wrote:IDK, but it's pretty amazing that we can know in advance who the next Prophet(s) will be by simply looking at a seating chart.

Take a guess.

ajax wrote:IDK, but it's pretty amazing that we can know in advance who the next Prophet(s) will be by simply looking at a seating chart.

"Thus sayeth the Corporate charter!"

The Lord was wrong when He placed within the Doctrine and Covenants instruction about the President of the High Priesthood and he being able to transgress. Thank, not God, Woodruff that he was able to correct the Lord by declaring that no one as President of the High Priesthood could lead the Church astray.

LDSguy wrote:
Take a guess.

It will be Packer, unless he dies,
then it will be Perry, unless he dies,
then it will be Nelson, unless he dies,
then it will be Oaks, unless he dies.......
....
....
....
....

This is not an attempt to derail this thread nor to be disrespectful but for an organization that believes in and periodically ( in my experience ) actually receives revelation I have always wondered why the Prophet is selected in the way he is . Unlike say the method the Catholic church uses which at least hypothetically permits revelation to be part of the selection process our approach not only doesn't need revelation but does not even permit it. No other large organization except certain feudal kingdoms passes leadership SOLELY on seniority . Even in this organization executive leaders ( bishops ,stake presidency apostles etc) are chosen by inspiration . But not the Prophet. I am familiar with the idea that we know who God wants because he kills off everyone until the right and chosen person is the last man standing but that has always been spiritually and emotionally unsatisfying. That wan't the way he chose OT prophets . This approach leaves us with perennially aged and often infirm leadership .This has not generally been the case earlier in this dispensations nor in prior ones. Your thoughts would be appreciated . I personally think Dallin Oaks is the most likely candidate

This post from 2009 gives probabilities based on life tables, age, and order of entry. It has been a pretty good predictor historically.

http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/10 ... president/

and an updated chart

http://imgur.com/1JHZjBT

God kills off the appropriate apostles at the appropriate times to ensure that the true prophet ascends to the high office.

It's really a complex process, made even more complex by modern medicine. Just when one of the not-so-chosen guys is about to expire, some wise-@#$ doctor comes along and rolls back his odometer a bit. Then God either has to either zap the guy with a new malady, or bless the prophet-in-waiting (as well as the current prophet) with an extra dose of health in his navel and marrow in his bones.

As far as I'm concerned, it is proof that God is in charge. Only He could administer such an outwardly simple, yet inwardly mind-boggling, selection process.

lemuel wrote:This post from 2009 gives probabilities based on life tables, age, and order of entry. It has been a pretty good predictor historically.

http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/10 ... president/

and an updated chart

http://imgur.com/1JHZjBT

Thats great, thanks. I hadnt seen that. I'd love to see Bednar as prophet. Then I can say I once had a FHE at the prophet's home (though he was Ricks President at the time)

AGStacker wrote:The Lord was wrong when He placed within the Doctrine and Covenants instruction about the President of the High Priesthood and he being able to transgress. Thank, not God, Woodruff that he was able to correct the Lord by declaring that no one as President of the High Priesthood could lead the Church astray.

YOu are taking Pres. Woodruff out of context here AGStacker. I have answered this mistaken interpretation before. I guess I'll give it another shot. Look at the quote in context:

"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
( The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 212–13.)

Now ask yourself how would The Lord remove Pres. Woodruff out of his place as President of the High Priesthood were he to attempt to lead the Saints astray? I'll give you a hint. Read verses 82-84 of section 107 and The Lord will answer that for you. Church disciplinary courts are here for a reason.

I see it as Oaks, then Holland, then Bednar.

I don't see Packer getting there. Low probability for Perry and for Nelson. Not sure about Ballard though I think Oaks outlives him. Scott took a giant step backwards after hearing his talk in Spanish, and Hales has been failing at health lately. Holland and Bednar are still young.

I think Christ comes back again with Bednar at the helm.

keep the faith wrote: YOu are taking Pres. Woodruff out of context here AGStacker. I have answered this mistaken interpretation before. I guess I'll give it another shot. Look at the quote in context:

"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
( The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 212–13.)

Now ask yourself how would The Lord remove Pres. Woodruff out of his place as President of the High Priesthood were he to attempt to lead the Saints astray? I'll give you a hint. Read verses 82-84 of section 107 and The Lord will answer that for you. Church disciplinary courts are here for a reason.

KTF, I am interested in your assessment of how church members would know if the President of the church were trying to lead them astray. After all, we teach each other that everything the church president says is inspired and that he cannot lead us astray. It seems like circular logic = the prophet cannot lead us astray. How do we know? The prophet told us. Why can we trust him? The prophet cannot lead us astray.

I am sincerely interested to know how you reconcile this. I have not been able to unless I conclude that the teaching that the prophet cannot lead us astray is erroneous. I am really interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

IDK either, but I recall when Elder David Bednar was put in as an apostle, I thought he'd be a prophet someday. Each time I hear him speak, it is reinforced.

Videre faciem Dei wrote:

keep the faith wrote: YOu are taking Pres. Woodruff out of context here AGStacker. I have answered this mistaken interpretation before. I guess I'll give it another shot. Look at the quote in context:

"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
( The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 212–13.)

Now ask yourself how would The Lord remove Pres. Woodruff out of his place as President of the High Priesthood were he to attempt to lead the Saints astray? I'll give you a hint. Read verses 82-84 of section 107 and The Lord will answer that for you. Church disciplinary courts are here for a reason.

KTF, I am interested in your assessment of how church members would know if the President of the church were trying to lead them astray. After all, we teach each other that everything the church president says is inspired and that he cannot lead us astray. It seems like circular logic = the prophet cannot lead us astray. How do we know? The prophet told us. Why can we trust him? The prophet cannot lead us astray.

I am sincerely interested to know how you reconcile this. I have not been able to unless I conclude that the teaching that the prophet cannot lead us astray is erroneous. I am really interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

I'd love to hear an answer to this question too!

samizdat wrote:I see it as Oaks, then Holland, then Bednar.

I don't see Packer getting there. Low probability for Perry and for Nelson. Not sure about Ballard though I think Oaks outlives him. Scott took a giant step backwards after hearing his talk in Spanish, and Hales has been failing at health lately. Holland and Bednar are still young.

I think Christ comes back again with Bednar at the helm.

Thank you for a real, honest answer!!

Tawanda wrote:IDK either, but I recall when Elder David Bednar was put in as an apostle, I thought he'd be a prophet someday. Each time I hear him speak, it is reinforced.

awesome. I'd love it

Perhaps monsoon will be the last president for our times. Just throwing the possibility out there.

ajax wrote:IDK, but it's pretty amazing that we can know in advance who the next Prophet(s) will be by simply looking at a seating chart.

I thought for sure Samuel looked at a seating chart before going to David. These patterns don't change over the ages. The whole asking God thing is such old school.

Yes I am mocking the process.

Prophets are picked in the preexistence. I'm not going to complain that God currently has His ducks in a row.

My guess would be Perry or Oaks. Perry seems to be in high health. Health didn't keep Hunter away from the mantle, however, which caused a lot of people to murmur.

keep the faith wrote:

AGStacker wrote:The Lord was wrong when He placed within the Doctrine and Covenants instruction about the President of the High Priesthood and he being able to transgress. Thank, not God, Woodruff that he was able to correct the Lord by declaring that no one as President of the High Priesthood could lead the Church astray.

YOu are taking Pres. Woodruff out of context here AGStacker. I have answered this mistaken interpretation before. I guess I'll give it another shot. Look at the quote in context:

"I say to Israel, the Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as president of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the program. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."
( The Discourses of Wilford Woodruff, sel. G. Homer Durham [1946], 212–13.)


Now ask yourself how would The Lord remove Pres. Woodruff out of his place as President of the High Priesthood were he to attempt to lead the Saints astray? I'll give you a hint. Read verses 82-84 of section 107 and The Lord will answer that for you. Church disciplinary courts are here for a reason.

That would require someone actually thinking the President was leading us astray and a disciplinary court actually being held. Do you really, honestly ever see that happening?

Whatever Woodruff's intended message I've heard many people twist it to mean that God will somehow strike them dead and therefore if they haven't been the President must not be wrong in any way. Which means a court will never be held because we're waiting for said striking to occur.

Franktalk wrote:

ajax wrote:IDK, but it's pretty amazing that we can know in advance who the next Prophet(s) will be by simply looking at a seating chart.

I thought for sure Samuel looked at a seating chart before going to David. These patterns don't change over the ages. The whole asking God thing is such old school.

Yes I am mocking the process.

What's that passage of scripture?... Ah yes, "Fools mock, but they shall mourn."

I can imagine the Lord saying to all of us "I got this!" The Lord is in charge of His church and Only He knows who the next prophet will be. And He knows when. It's all part of His great plan for us. He puts people in the right place at the right time. Quit doubting that the Lord is in charge and knows what He's doing.

Snuffer!

it'd be nice if people, from time to time, could just answer a simple question in a forum, without having to launch into some diatribe and offer their two-bit nonsense.