LDS Freedom Forum

"To know who He is and what your standing is before Him" .... I read this somewhere and it's a thought I mull over frequently. I did it backwards. I have had a heart to heart with Him and I know my standing before Him. But after reading Joseph's King Follet Sermon, I realized I don't think I fully KNOW him. Then when Denver mentioned knowing the nature or character of God, it's come to the foremost of my thoughts again.

I only discovered this like 6 months ago and I love it... (I know I'm behind most of you... but it's so awesome you should read it again)
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I want to ask this congregation, every man, woman and child, to answer the question in their own hearts, what kind of a being God is? Ask yourselves; turn your thoughts into your hearts, and say if any of you have seen, heard, or communed with Him? This is a question that may occupy your attention for a long time. I again repeat the question—What kind of a being is God? Does any man or woman know? Have any of you seen Him, heard Him, or communed with Him? Here is the question that will, peradventure, from this time henceforth occupy your attention. The scriptures inform us that "This is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

This is a question I have had since I was a little girl. As young as 5 I wondered what kind of God he was. I'd often wondered if He was a loving God or one that ruled by fear. "Obey me or be destroyed." I had come to the conclusion that my Father in heaven was like my father on earth and so He must be one to be afraid of. I grew up thinking He was one who would punish quickly and severely if one commandment was broken and it would take a long time to recover from that sin. I was taught to fear Him and that devastation, pain, anguish, wailing, and gnashing of teeth would come and it was a slim chance to be righteous enough to avoid that.... Then, I had to start all over again.

If we start right, it is easy to go right all the time; but if we start wrong we may go wrong, and it will be a hard matter to get right. ~~ Joseph Smith

Even though, I'm late to start the race and I'm far behind most of you here on this forum, it's never too late, right? :ymblushing:

If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.

So what is the character of God? Throughout my life, each time I think I know the nature of God, a new variable comes into my equation and changes it entirely.

My first object is to find out the character of the only wise and true, God, and what kind of a being He is

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power

There is so much pure absolute awesomeness in this one sermon, I actually want to post at least a dozen more quotes, but I want to see what others have to say about their experiences searching for the nature of God.

And remember, we're all here searching for truth. So please be kind and save the sarcasm and fight for those looking to destroy the Kingdom of God and not for those looking to build it.... even if it may be a different architectural style than the one you think works better.

I have no enmity against any man. I love you all; but I hate some of your deeds. I am your best friend, and if persons miss their mark it is their own fault. If I reprove a man, and he hates me, he is a fool; for I love all men, especially these my brethren and sisters.~~Joseph Smith (freaking awesome guy!)

Check out;The true faith by Orson Pratt Best resource I have found on the subject.

[quote="Ruth"] Even though, I'm late to start the race and I'm far behind most of you here on this forum, it's never too late, right? :ymblushing: [quote]

Ruth, if you saw yourself in others eyes, you wouldn't think this at all! You are a very mild Christ-like person, and one to look up to.

Thanks for the post in the King Follett Sermon. Nice reminder! All those Joseph Smith posts really strike me deep. Thanks for the insight!!

Ruth ~ First of all, it was great fun at the AF Canyon! Sure wish we could've hooked up afterwards. Let's do it though, real soon!

Your post touches me due to my own experience of having to start anew in my understanding of God. I grew up with a vengeful, 'strike you with lighting if you sin' kind of God. As a side note, I was raised Pentecostal (dad's family) with my mother's gentle influence of the gospel as she was learning it (she was baptized when I was little), but she too was learning anew. So, it wasn't until I was in my 30's I had my first epiphany of God's love ... and sense of humor (but that's another story :ymcowboy: ). The topic of knowing the character of God in order to know self is one that has been in my heart/mind lately and though I keep thinking I've opened the door to greater understanding, it seems I'm met with another door and another door ... wondering when I will reach the outer door where He can enter ... or rather when I can endure His presence. It's just the place where I am at currently, but due to past experiences, I know He will reveal Himself as I am able to understand. It's hard being patient sometimes. Your post encourages me to continue my reading, fasting and prayers to know Him better.

I'm rather new to all this myself, so I'll join you as you walk your path. ((Ruth)) ~Kellie :ymhug:

You posted my favorite quotes there

“If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.”(...ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon)

What is the first principle of the gospel? Fourth article of faith states, faith in the lord Jesus Christ. This was written in 1842 by Joseph Smith in the Wentworth letter.

In the year April 7 1844 he further explained what this meant. He explains what it means to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The king follet discourse states, “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another (#1), and that He was once a man like us (#2); yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth (#3), the same as Jesus Christ Himself did (#4); and I will show it from the Bible.”
Jesus Christ is no different than any of us. He is a Man that we may converse with, that if we saw him this instance, he would be like us, that his Father dwelt on an earth like this one, and finally he did so just like Christ did.

No man is a minister of Jesus Christ, without being a Prophet. No man can be the minister of Jesus Christ, except he has the testimony of Jesus & this is the Spirit of Prophecy. 18 Whenever Salvation has been adminsitered it has been by Testimony. Men at the present time testify of Heaven & of hell, & have never seen either—& I will say that no man knows these things without this.
Words of Joseph Smith - Deluxe Study Edition including the LDS Standar Works, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Lectures on Faith, History of the Church, History of Joseph by His Mother, and More (Kindle Locations 388-391). Packard Technologies. Kindle Edition.

AnthonyR wrote:Ruth, if you saw yourself in others eyes, you wouldn't think this at all! You are a very mild Christ-like person, and one to look up to.

Thanks for the post in the King Follett Sermon. Nice reminder! All those Joseph Smith posts really strike me deep. Thanks for the insight!!

Anthony, that was very, very kind of you to say. I appreciate those sweet words. It's funny, I often say that to others; to see yourself the way Christ sees you and yet I forget to do that myself. Thanks for the reminder!

Tawanda wrote:Ruth ~ First of all, it was great fun at the AF Canyon! Sure wish we could've hooked up afterwards. Let's do it though, real soon!

I agree Kellie, it was a great experience! Real soon is definitely in the works.

Tawanda wrote: Your post touches me due to my own experience of having to start anew in my understanding of God. I grew up with a vengeful, 'strike you with lighting if you sin' kind of God. As a side note, I was raised Pentecostal (dad's family) with my mother's gentle influence of the gospel as she was learning it (she was baptized when I was little), but she too was learning anew. So, it wasn't until I was in my 30's I had my first epiphany of God's love ... and sense of humor (but that's another story :ymcowboy: ). The topic of knowing the character of God in order to know self is one that has been in my heart/mind lately and though I keep thinking I've opened the door to greater understanding, it seems I'm met with another door and another door ... wondering when I will reach the outer door where He can enter ... or rather when I can endure His presence. It's just the place where I am at currently, but due to past experiences, I know He will reveal Himself as I am able to understand. It's hard being patient sometimes. Your post encourages me to continue my reading, fasting and prayers to know Him better.

I'm rather new to all this myself, so I'll join you as you walk your path. ((Ruth)) ~Kellie :ymhug:

I love this, thank you! More than anything, I'm so impressed in meeting so many people in one place who are diligently searching with all their might to find truth and light... to find their Lord. I am happy to have met so many who will walk beside me.... who won't laugh as I frequently stumble or even outright fall on my face. :ymhug:

The true character of God is beautiful and I hope to learn directly from Him one day. But I remember hearing somewhere (probably Denver) that if anything in your life would change by meeting the Savior then you're not ready to meet Him yet.

TZONE wrote:What is the first principle of the gospel? Fourth article of faith states, faith in the lord Jesus Christ. This was written in 1842 by Joseph Smith in the Wentworth letter.

In the year April 7 1844 he further explained what this meant. He explains what it means to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. The king follet discourse states, “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another (#1), and that He was once a man like us (#2); yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth (#3), the same as Jesus Christ Himself did (#4); and I will show it from the Bible.”
Jesus Christ is no different than any of us. He is a Man that we may converse with, that if we saw him this instance, he would be like us, that his Father dwelt on an earth like this one, and finally he did so just like Christ did.

Very cool Tzone! Interesting, Brent was just mentioning this. Then it goes faith, repentance, baptism by immersion (covenant)... similar to the course Denver is following. His first lecture was the introduction, then faith, repentance, and tomorrow is covenants.

AnthonyR wrote:

Ruth wrote: Even though, I'm late to start the race and I'm far behind most of you here on this forum, it's never too late, right? :ymblushing:

Ruth, if you saw yourself in others eyes, you wouldn't think this at all! You are a very mild Christ-like person, and one to look up to.

Thanks for the post in the King Follett Sermon. Nice reminder! All those Joseph Smith posts really strike me deep. Thanks for the insight!!

It is never wise to compare ourselves to someone else in the gospel, we'll come up short every time. Other people in the church just happen to sin differently, that's all. We all struggle with temptation, we sometimes give in to it. That's why we have repentance, which if done with real intent will lift us out of the gulf of misery and woe. It's not a matter of whether God wants to punish the sinner, rather, it is whether the sinner wants to be saved or not.

Listen to this prophet...a sinner...lament, then rejoice. We can learn a part of God's nature by paying attention to Nephi's words:

2 Nephi 4:16-35
16 Behold, my soul delighteth in the things of the Lord; and my heart pondereth continually upon the things which I have seen and heard.
17 Nevertheless, notwithstanding the great goodness of the Lord, in showing me his great and marvelous works, my heart exclaimeth: O wretched man that I am! Yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh; my soul grieveth because of mine iniquities.
18 I am encompassed about, because of the temptations and the sins which do so easily beset me.
19 And when I desire to rejoice, my heart groaneth because of my sins; nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.
20 My God hath been my support; he hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness; and he hath preserved me upon the waters of the great deep.
21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.
22 He hath confounded mine enemies, unto the causing of them to quake before me.
23 Behold, he hath heard my cry by day, and he hath given me knowledge by visions in the night-time.
24 And by day have I waxed bold in mighty prayer before him; yea, my voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me.
25 And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceedingly high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things, yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.
26 O then, if I have seen so great things, if the Lord in his condescension unto the children of men hath visited men in so much mercy, why should my heart weep and my soul linger in the valley of sorrow, and my flesh waste away, and my strength slacken, because of mine afflictions?
27 And why should I yield to sin, because of my flesh? Yea, why should I give way to temptations, that the evil one have place in my heart to destroy my peace and afflict my soul? Why am I angry because of mine enemy?
28 Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.
29 Do not anger again because of mine enemies. Do not slacken my strength because of mine afflictions.
30 Rejoice, O my heart, and cry unto the Lord, and say: O Lord, I will praise thee forever; yea, my soul will rejoice in thee, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
31 O Lord, wilt thou redeem my soul? Wilt thou deliver me out of the hands of mine enemies? Wilt thou make me that I may shake at the appearance of sin?
32 May the gates of hell be shut continually before me, because that my heart is broken and my spirit is contrite! O Lord, wilt thou not shut the gates of thy righteousness before me, that I may walk in the path of the low valley, that I may be strict in the plain road!
33 O Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness! O Lord, wilt thou make a way for mine escape before mine enemies! Wilt thou make my path straight before me! Wilt thou not place a stumbling block in my way—but that thou wouldst clear my way before me, and hedge not up my way, but the ways of mine enemy.
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.
35 Yea, I know that God will give liberally to him that asketh. Yea, my God will give me, if I ask not amiss; therefore I will lift up my voice unto thee; yea, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness. Behold, my voice shall forever ascend up unto thee, my rock and mine everlasting God. Amen.

Ruth wrote:"To know who He is and what your standing is before Him" .... I read this somewhere and it's a thought I mull over frequently. I did it backwards. I have had a heart to heart with Him and I know my standing before Him. But after reading Joseph's King Follet Sermon, I realized I don't think I fully KNOW him. Then when Denver mentioned knowing the nature or character of God, it's come to the foremost of my thoughts again.

I only discovered this like 6 months ago and I love it... (I know I'm behind most of you... but it's so awesome you should read it again)
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ser ... sermon.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I want to ask this congregation, every man, woman and child, to answer the question in their own hearts, what kind of a being God is? Ask yourselves; turn your thoughts into your hearts, and say if any of you have seen, heard, or communed with Him? This is a question that may occupy your attention for a long time. I again repeat the question—What kind of a being is God? Does any man or woman know? Have any of you seen Him, heard Him, or communed with Him? Here is the question that will, peradventure, from this time henceforth occupy your attention. The scriptures inform us that "This is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

This is a question I have had since I was a little girl. As young as 5 I wondered what kind of God he was. I'd often wondered if He was a loving God or one that ruled by fear. "Obey me or be destroyed." I had come to the conclusion that my Father in heaven was like my father on earth and so He must be one to be afraid of. I grew up thinking He was one who would punish quickly and severely if one commandment was broken and it would take a long time to recover from that sin. I was taught to fear Him and that devastation, pain, anguish, wailing, and gnashing of teeth would come and it was a slim chance to be righteous enough to avoid that.... Then, I had to start all over again.

If we start right, it is easy to go right all the time; but if we start wrong we may go wrong, and it will be a hard matter to get right. ~~ Joseph Smith

Even though, I'm late to start the race and I'm far behind most of you here on this forum, it's never too late, right? :ymblushing:

If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves.

So what is the character of God? Throughout my life, each time I think I know the nature of God, a new variable comes into my equation and changes it entirely.

My first object is to find out the character of the only wise and true, God, and what kind of a being He is

Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power

There is so much pure absolute awesomeness in this one sermon, I actually want to post at least a dozen more quotes, but I want to see what others have to say about their experiences searching for the nature of God.

And remember, we're all here searching for truth. So please be kind and save the sarcasm and fight for those looking to destroy the Kingdom of God and not for those looking to build it.... even if it may be a different architectural style than the one you think works better.

I have no enmity against any man. I love you all; but I hate some of your deeds. I am your best friend, and if persons miss their mark it is their own fault. If I reprove a man, and he hates me, he is a fool; for I love all men, especially these my brethren and sisters.~~Joseph Smith (freaking awesome guy!)

Ruth,

I am excited for your journey... it is a glorious one! If you have not read Lectures on Faith at least a dozen times... especially lectures 3 through 7. I would recommend it as the most important "doctrinal" discourse on the nature and character of God in existence today. I love it! Most people do not understand the relationship between the outward ordinances of the gospel and the spiritual nature of salvation or exaltation. God has always spoken to man in symbols because of our fall from our spiritual nature (the attributes of godliness).

From Lectures on Faith:

"Let us here observe, that after any portion of the human family are made acquainted with the important fact that there is a God, who has created and does uphold all things, the extent of their knowledge respecting his character and glory will depend upon their diligence and faithfulness in seeking after him, until like Enoch, the brother of Jared and Moses, they shall obtain faith in God and power with him to behold him face to face."

"How do men (meaning mankind) obtain a knowledge of the glory of God, his perfections and attributes? By devoting themselves to his service (what kind of service?) through prayer and supplication incessantly strengthening their faith in hi, until, like Enoch, the brother of Jared, and Moses, they obtain a manifestation of God to themselves." (Lecture 2:55).

What kind of service is Joseph speaking of there? 1. "prayer and supplication." In other words, in all you think (your innermost thoughts) believe until you know that the character, attributes and perfections of godliness are already innately apart of you, they always have been (this is your connection with God). All we need to do is practice them... "become them" until they bring a manifestation of God to yourself and you "know" because you see and talk with Him "face to face." Judge no man because of his race or religion, for all have this potential! This kind of judgment will "damn" us from a "face to face" experience. God bless you in this most wonderful journey!