Your home for discussing politics, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, and the principles of liberty.
https://ldsfreedomforum.com/
It does give one pause for thought, that's for sure.keep the faith wrote:It is so curious to me that those who profess the loudest to have experienced a personal visitation from Diety on this site are more often than not the Church's most severe critics and accusers. Hmmm... :-s
While more pallet able, it conveys a certain understanding. Amen.ajax wrote:Our weekly meeting houses are plain as plain can be.
The temples seem to have a bit more images adorned on them.
If I recall, JS stated the pattern for both the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples were given by the Lord. Those temples are filled with images and patterns which symbolize greater things.
May I recommend Matthew Brown's Symbols in Stone which gives page after page of symbols, images, whatever the Lord gave to Joseph for the temples.
http://www.amazon.com/Symbols-Stone-Sym ... 1591562503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've always preferred the weathervane moroni, or angel flying in the midst of heaven
Yeah, no kidding.Daryl wrote:While more pallet able, it conveys a certain understanding. Amen.ajax wrote:Our weekly meeting houses are plain as plain can be.
The temples seem to have a bit more images adorned on them.
If I recall, JS stated the pattern for both the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples were given by the Lord. Those temples are filled with images and patterns which symbolize greater things.
May I recommend Matthew Brown's Symbols in Stone which gives page after page of symbols, images, whatever the Lord gave to Joseph for the temples.
http://www.amazon.com/Symbols-Stone-Sym ... 1591562503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I've always preferred the weathervane moroni, or angel flying in the midst of heaven
If this is the case, it would compel an honest man/woman who is acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, to never enter such a building ever again, no?Daryl wrote:
http://youtu.be/QQvtFZkaC7w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did we miss the memo?Exodus 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
That is between you and God.ajax wrote:If this is the case, it would compel an honest man/woman who is acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, to never enter such a building ever again, no?
This may shock you Ajax but I totally agree with you on this one. If someone really believes that the LDS church is worshipping idols and making graven images by putting the angel Moroni on its temples then they shouldn't set foot in a temple. It would be a dishonest display before God and frankly they don't belong in a temple of the Lord with that kind of attitude anyway.ajax wrote:If this is the case, it would compel an honest man/woman who is acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, to never enter such a building ever again, no?Daryl wrote:
http://youtu.be/QQvtFZkaC7w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Did we miss the memo?Exodus 20:
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
God bless you for you integrity.keep the faith wrote: This may shock you Ajax but I totally agree with you on this one. If someone really believes that the LDS church is worshipping idols and making graven images by putting the angel Moroni on its temples then they shouldn't set foot in a temple. It would be a dishonest display before God and frankly they don't belong in a temple of the Lord with that kind of attitude anyway.
keep the faith wrote:
If someone really believes that the LDS church is worshipping idols ...... frankly they don't belong in a temple of the Lord with that kind of attitude anyway.
Why would God give this commandment if we aren't supposed to have statues of anything in heaven or on earth? I think that there's more to the no graven image commandment than what we are currently understanding here.And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. - Exodus 25:18
Awesome point. Thank you for bringing that up. What is your understanding?embryopocket wrote:Why would God give this commandment if we aren't supposed to have statues of anything in heaven or on earth? I think that there's more to the no graven image commandment than what we are currently understanding here.And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. - Exodus 25:18
Not shocked keep the faith. Most people start to agree with me over time... ;)keep the faith wrote: This may shock you Ajax but I totally agree with you on this one.
Well, I'm thinking that since we have our scriptures divided into verses, we see different verses as different ideas when they might not be. In Exodus 20, verse 2 is The Lord saying that He is the only God that brought them out of Israel. He then commences to make the statement of graven images. Maybe this is one idea - He might be saying, "Hey guys, it was ME that saved you, you don't need to make any images of anything to worship because I am with you always." I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with the Christus statue or the golden Moronis because they are there to draw our minds to what they really represent, and are not used as objects of worship.Daryl wrote:Awesome point. Thank you for bringing that up. What is your understanding?embryopocket wrote:Why would God give this commandment if we aren't supposed to have statues of anything in heaven or on earth? I think that there's more to the no graven image commandment than what we are currently understanding here.And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. - Exodus 25:18
Excellent points. I agree with you.embryopocket wrote: Well, I'm thinking that since we have our scriptures divided into verses, we see different verses as different ideas when they might not be. In Exodus 20, verse 2 is The Lord saying that He is the only God that brought them out of Israel. He then commences to make the statement of graven images. Maybe this is one idea - He might be saying, "Hey guys, it was ME that saved you, you don't need to make any images of anything to worship because I am with you always." I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with the Christus statue or the golden Moronis because they are there to draw our minds to what they really represent, and are not used as objects of worship.
i dont think this can be the answer because there are still conflicts. the serpent on the staff was symbolic of Christ, and was ok, yet the golden calf, also a symbol of Christ at the time (like a fish could be now or a cross) was not ok.embryopocket wrote: Well, I'm thinking that since we have our scriptures divided into verses, we see different verses as different ideas when they might not be. In Exodus 20, verse 2 is The Lord saying that He is the only God that brought them out of Israel. He then commences to make the statement of graven images. Maybe this is one idea - He might be saying, "Hey guys, it was ME that saved you, you don't need to make any images of anything to worship because I am with you always." I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with the Christus statue or the golden Moronis because they are there to draw our minds to what they really represent, and are not used as objects of worship.
Just one thought for you Daryl. The belief must be centered on Jesus Christ and his true gospel principles. I can believe a lot of things that are based on "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture" but that will only take me away from the ultimate destination I seek. Deception is EVERYWHERE you look. Believing in a lie or a half truth will not bring me into the Lords presence. It will only open me up to adversarial deception.Daryl wrote:Joseph Smith taught us to "believe all things". When he taught that, he did not include limitations or exclusions. Just believe all things. It has taken me a year to begin to get my head around this idea. I believe that we must believe all things to effect the knowledge of God in our lives. I know this is deep and difficult, but well worth the effort to comprehend.
believe all things
Articles of Faith 13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Jesus: "...all things are possible to him that believeth."
Paul: "by him all that believe are justified from all things"
Paul: "all that believed were together, and had all things common"
Joseph Smith: "Search diligently, pray always, and be believing..."
King Benjamin: "...now, if you believe all these things see that ye do them."
Mormon: "Doubt not, but be believing, and begin as in times of old, and come unto the Lord with all your heart, and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling before him."
Noah: "Believe and repent of your sins"
The Book of Psalms: "I believed, therefore have I spoken: I was greatly afflicted"
The Proverbs: "The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.
I like these scripture snippets about believing:
believe only, and she shall be made whole: Luke 8:50 .
all men through him might believe: John 1:7 .
himself believed, and his whole house: John 4:53 .
be not faithless, but believing: John 20:27 .
these are written, that ye might believe: John 20:31 .
by him all that believe are justified: Acts 13:39 .
unto salvation to every one that believeth: Rom. 1:16 .
Many of these scriptures do not give a context of what specifically to believe, just believe. We tend to limit what to believe. We encapsulate what it is we should believe. We limit the scope.
When things that are of the greatest importance are passed over by weak-minded men without even a thought, I want to see truth in all its bearings and hug it to my bosom. I believe all that God ever revealed, and I never hear of a man being damned for believing too much; but they are damned for unbelief.”
Jesus speaking with the father of the stricken child: "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief."
Was the golden calf a symbol for Christ? I did not know that. I thought that it was an Egyptian god. The only true symbols of Deity that I know are:BrentL wrote:i dont think this can be the answer because there are still conflicts. the serpent on the staff was symbolic of Christ, and was ok, yet the golden calf, also a symbol of Christ at the time (like a fish could be now or a cross) was not ok.embryopocket wrote: Well, I'm thinking that since we have our scriptures divided into verses, we see different verses as different ideas when they might not be. In Exodus 20, verse 2 is The Lord saying that He is the only God that brought them out of Israel. He then commences to make the statement of graven images. Maybe this is one idea - He might be saying, "Hey guys, it was ME that saved you, you don't need to make any images of anything to worship because I am with you always." I personally don't feel like there's anything wrong with the Christus statue or the golden Moronis because they are there to draw our minds to what they really represent, and are not used as objects of worship.
Daryl wrote:There is an answer. I believe the root of the answer to this sets the hearts of man free.
Do you know the answer? Is the answer only to be found in our own hearts, or through our own study and prayer?Daryl wrote:There is an answer. I believe the root of the answer to this sets the hearts of man free.
This is beautifully said.keep the faith wrote:The belief must be centered on Jesus Christ and his true gospel principles. I can believe a lot of things that are based on "the philosophies of men mingled with scripture" but that will only take me away from the ultimate destination I seek. Deception is EVERYWHERE you look. Believing in a lie or a half truth will not bring me into the Lords presence. It will only open me up to adversarial deception.
