Snuffer gets Ex'ed

[liberty]

Denver posted at 1:25 pm on his blog that he has been excommunicated.

[clarkkent14]

repeat thread: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=30107" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TZONE]

clark, thats in the private thread PTHG, this is general discussion.

Doesn't change what is truth adn what is not. I know the messages I have received through the holy ghost, denver being the carrier of hte message, is truth. I don't agree with everything but I have never drawn nearer to christ than I have the past 3 months from taking into actions the suggestions he has expounded from the book of mormon. Thus the fruit is good.

[clarkkent14]

my bad...

[iamse7en]

What implications does this have on the forum? Is it problematic at all to have some private forums dedicated to his ideas and teachings, which Church authorities higher than his SP deem to be falsehoods? Maybe it means nothing; it's up to Brian. I've enjoyed the discussions that have been sparked by his books nonetheless in both public and private.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

What implications does this have on the forum? Is it problematic at all to have some private forums dedicated to his ideas and teachings, which Church authorities higher than his SP deem to be falsehoods? Maybe it means nothing; it's up to Brian. I've enjoyed the discussions that have been sparked by his books nonetheless in both public and private.

The private forum is there so that people can actually discuss without being attacked. It's an area for "like-minded people" - as I said, to discuss. So the duplicate topic in this area will be a much different discussion than the one in the HG area.

[stillwater]

What implications does this have on the forum? Is it problematic at all to have some private forums dedicated to his ideas and teachings, which Church authorities higher than his SP deem to be falsehoods? Maybe it means nothing; it's up to Brian. I've enjoyed the discussions that have been sparked by his books nonetheless in both public and private.

What did they determine to be false, exactly? Not the scriptures he quotes, or the words of Joseph Smith, or the historical record that he refers to in PTHG, certainly. To say "his ideas and teachings" have been "deemed to be falsehoods" is vague. I'm not saying this to be argumentative or as a kneejerk defense of him, but rather to point out that the hierarchy have not made clear what portions of his teachings and ideas they are objecting to. The fact is, he's largely just restating the doctrines of Joseph Smith.

If what he has taught is so obviously false, then it should be simple to clear up. I can't imagine any action being expected of the membership of the church (altering the conduct of internet forums, for instance) without them having some idea of what the Church authorities are objecting to. gentleness, meekness, kindness, pure knowledge, and all that.

[skmo]

The private forum is there so that people can actually discuss without being attacked. It's an area for "like-minded people" - as I said, to discuss. So the duplicate topic in this area will be a much different discussion than the one in the HG area.

Exactly. I am in hte private discussions area, but I'm not in any of the DS areas. I like being able to discuss some things in private, but until I had read any of his stuff I didn't feel like I had anything to contribute so I didn't join. After I did read some of his stuff, I decided I still didn't have anything to contribute that would add, only take away, so Idecided to stay away. For those who find his writings valuable, the are is probably a good sounding board. I have found no personal worth in what he says, so I will leave that to those who see what I do not.

[TZONE]

The private forum is there so that people can actually discuss without being attacked. It's an area for "like-minded people" - as I said, to discuss. So the duplicate topic in this area will be a much different discussion than the one in the HG area.

Exactly. I am in hte private discussions area, but I'm not in any of the DS areas. I like being able to discuss some things in private, but until I had read any of his stuff I didn't feel like I had anything to contribute so I didn't join. After I did read some of his stuff, I decided I still didn't have anything to contribute that would add, only take away, so Idecided to stay away. For those who find his writings valuable, the are is probably a good sounding board. I have found no personal worth in what he says, so I will leave that to those who see what I do not.

Denver is not the only thing discussed there. Its more a like mindedness thread. Well the past few weeks of this "drama" it has had a greater focus.

[jdawg1012]

Well, I predicted it over a year ago. It's a shame really, the road to apostasy is ugly, indeed, and it's not the first time I've seen it.

Hopefully he behaves more like a Sherem (actually, hopefully more like Zeezrom) and less like a Korihor. In any event, I wish him well on the road to repentance.

[hyloglyph]

Well, I predicted it over a year ago. It's a shame really, the road to apostasy is ugly, indeed, and it's not the first time I've seen it.

Hopefully he behaves more like a Sherem (actually, hopefully more like Zeezrom) and less like a Korihor. In any event, I wish him well on the road to repentance.

[InfoWarrior82]

[AGStacker]

Well, I predicted it over a year ago. It's a shame really, the road to apostasy is ugly, indeed, and it's not the first time I've seen it.

Hopefully he behaves more like a Sherem (actually, hopefully more like Zeezrom) and less like a Korihor. In any event, I wish him well on the road to repentance.

What does he need to repent of? His Stake President admitted he is worthy to hold a Temple Recommend.

[SmallFarm]

Has anyone considered that it is God's will that he was ex'ed, not because of unworthiness, but to free him for important work? I like to cover my brothers and sisters in a blanket of charity, no matter their varying circumstances...

[jdawg1012]

Well, I predicted it over a year ago. It's a shame really, the road to apostasy is ugly, indeed, and it's not the first time I've seen it.

Hopefully he behaves more like a Sherem (actually, hopefully more like Zeezrom) and less like a Korihor. In any event, I wish him well on the road to repentance.

What does he need to repent of? His Stake President admitted he is worthy to hold a Temple Recommend.

Really? I thought that he was just excommunicated for apostasy. I was unaware that non-members hold temple recommends. Since this is obviously not the case, you must merely be baiting. I don't believe every word that comes out of Denver Snuffers key strokes, so the "worthy to hold a recommend" is a non starter for me. Besides, he teaches [his beliefs] contrary to what I know to be true, so I question his [dwindling] credibility. You can hold to whatever you wish. Apostasy requires repentance, among many other things. Unless you've deified him so much that you erroneously believe he needs no repentance.

So, I still wish him well on his road to repentance. Sorry if you don't.

[clarkkent14]

Well, I predicted it over a year ago. It's a shame really, the road to apostasy is ugly, indeed, and it's not the first time I've seen it.

Hopefully he behaves more like a Sherem (actually, hopefully more like Zeezrom) and less like a Korihor. In any event, I wish him well on the road to repentance.

What does he need to repent of? His Stake President admitted he is worthy to hold a Temple Recommend.

Really? I thought that he was just excommunicated for apostasy. I was unaware that non-members hold temple recommends. Since this is obviously not the case, you must merely be baiting. I don't believe every word that comes out of Denver Snuffers key strokes, so the "worthy to hold a recommend" is a non starter for me. Besides, he teaches [his beliefs] contrary to what I know to be true, so I question his [dwindling] credibility. You can hold to whatever you wish. Apostasy requires repentance, among many other things. Unless you've deified him so much that you erroneously believe he needs no repentance.

So, I still wish him well on his road to repentance. Sorry if you don't.

Apostasy does require repentance. The church should look into that.

[InfoWarrior82]

Apostasy does require repentance. The church should look into that.

We do know that at least 50% will not have enough oil in their lamps. The question is, do you think that the prophet and apostles fall into the 50% who have enough oil? ;) So, a foolish virgin or a wise virgin?

#comeoutandsayit

[skmo]

What does he need to repent of? His Stake President admitted he is worthy to hold a Temple Recommend.

Really? I thought that he was just excommunicated for apostasy.

See, here is the problem with outsiders being involved in this situation. I did not hear the SP say that brother Snuffer was worthy of a recommend so I have no way of knowing this. Likewise, I have no way of knowing what he was excommunicated for because I was not fully informed of the proceedings or the outcome (nor would I care to be.) I was not on the court, so I did not receive revelation about what God wanted done. It was not my responsibility. It does not affect me, nor should it.

If others allow themselves to be affected by it, that is their choice. I believe it would be a mistake to do so.

So, I still wish him well on his road to repentance. Sorry if you don't.

I agree here completely and do the same for all walking that road too many of us are on.

[kgrigio]

Apostasy does require repentance. The church should look into that.

I served a mission in Italy where the majority of people are Catholic in name only. If I got a dime every time someone told me "I know the church and priests are corrupt, but I was born Catholic, I will die Catholic." I would be rich.

I just don't understand the similar attitude that is becoming so much more pervasive here on the "corruption" in the church. If you feel it's so corrupt and in need of repentance, go to a different church. If you feel that the prophet and apostles aren't bearing fervent witness of Christ exactly the way you like, go find those that do it in the way you want and form a church. If you don't feel the prophet has the authority to run the government of the Lord's church here on the Earth, aka Priesthood, then go find someone you feel does have that authority.

I feel sorry for Denver. I liked his first book (the only one I had time to read), but if his teachings are driving so many away from sustaining the Lord's anointed, then either they aren't His anointed and this isn't His church, or there is another force at work here that is deceiving even the very elect.

I know that last sentence will be set upon by those pointing out the mainstream are the ones being deceived, to which I will head them off at the pass now and say, then go to the church where you find the elect that aren't being deceived and where you believe His authority rests.

[jdawg1012]

Apostasy does require repentance. The church should look into that.

I served a mission in Italy where the majority of people are Catholic in name only. If I got a dime every time someone told me "I know the church and priests are corrupt, but I was born Catholic, I will die Catholic." I would be rich.

I just don't understand the similar attitude that is becoming so much more pervasive here on the "corruption" in the church. If you feel it's so corrupt and in need of repentance, go to a different church. If you feel that the prophet and apostles aren't bearing fervent witness of Christ exactly the way you like, go find those that do it in the way you want and form a church. If you don't feel the prophet has the authority to run the government of the Lord's church here on the Earth, aka Priesthood, then go find someone you feel does have that authority.

I feel sorry for Denver... but if his teachings are driving so many away from sustaining the Lord's anointed, then either they aren't His anointed and this isn't His church, or there is another force at work here that is deceiving even the very elect.

I will head them off at the pass now and say, then go to the church where you find the elect that aren't being deceived and where you believe His authority rests.

Amen, amen and amen.

[jdawg1012]

Has anyone considered that it is God's will that he was ex'ed...but to free him for important work? I like to cover my brothers and sisters in a blanket of charity, no matter their varying circumstances...

Yes, no, me too.

I have one for you. Has anyone considered that this is the beginning of the cleansing of the Lord's church in the last days, by removing the wolves in sheep's clothing, who are trying to lead the elect away (and even possibly being deceived by angels of light). I mean, if we're speaking in hypothetical(s) and all, maybe that one's worth considering too..

[InfoWarrior82]

Apostasy does require repentance. The church should look into that.

I served a mission in Italy where the majority of people are Catholic in name only. If I got a dime every time someone told me "I know the church and priests are corrupt, but I was born Catholic, I will die Catholic." I would be rich.

I just don't understand the similar attitude that is becoming so much more pervasive here on the "corruption" in the church. If you feel it's so corrupt and in need of repentance, go to a different church. If you feel that the prophet and apostles aren't bearing fervent witness of Christ exactly the way you like, go find those that do it in the way you want and form a church. If you don't feel the prophet has the authority to run the government of the Lord's church here on the Earth, aka Priesthood, then go find someone you feel does have that authority.

I feel sorry for Denver... but if his teachings are driving so many away from sustaining the Lord's anointed, then either they aren't His anointed and this isn't His church, or there is another force at work here that is deceiving even the very elect.

I will head them off at the pass now and say, then go to the church where you find the elect that aren't being deceived and where you believe His authority rests.

Amen, amen and amen.

... and amen.

[ATL Wake]

I just don't understand the similar attitude that is becoming so much more pervasive here on the "corruption" in the church. If you feel it's so corrupt and in need of repentance, go to a different church. If you feel that the prophet and apostles aren't bearing fervent witness of Christ exactly the way you like, go find those that do it in the way you want and form a church. If you don't feel the prophet has the authority to run the government of the Lord's church here on the Earth, aka Priesthood, then go find someone you feel does have that authority.

Christ still followed the jewish faith even though it was corrupted. He even acknowledged that Caiaphis had the "authority" to sit in the chief seats.

Yet, Christ ministered among the jews. He didn't leave and go to a different church. This is still the Lord's church we are just in need of repentance. And if we do not, "upon my house it will begin."

[kgrigio]

I just don't understand the similar attitude that is becoming so much more pervasive here on the "corruption" in the church. If you feel it's so corrupt and in need of repentance, go to a different church. If you feel that the prophet and apostles aren't bearing fervent witness of Christ exactly the way you like, go find those that do it in the way you want and form a church. If you don't feel the prophet has the authority to run the government of the Lord's church here on the Earth, aka Priesthood, then go find someone you feel does have that authority.

Christ still followed the jewish faith even though it was corrupted. He even acknowledged that Caiaphis had the "authority" to sit in the chief seats.

Yet, Christ ministered among the jews. He didn't leave and go to a different church. This is still the Lord's church we are just in need of repentance. And if we do not, "upon my house it will begin."

But yet he told Joseph to "join none of them"

[TZONE]

Has anyone considered that it is God's will that he was ex'ed, not because of unworthiness, but to free him for important work? I like to cover my brothers and sisters in a blanket of charity, no matter their varying circumstances...

:ymapplause: Exactly. And he still sustained the leaders in his lecture AFTER knowing he was exed. Apostasy? Means one is actively going against the church. He still, refuses to go against it but supports it.

Others here have no worries they don't beileve what he has written is truth.So nothing to worry about, just another event.