Bradley Manning Found Not Guilty of Aiding the Enemy

[mes5464]

Bradley Manning Found Not Guilty of Aiding the Enemy

http://www.infowars.com/bradley-manning ... ot-guilty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wot]

Bradley Manning Found Not Guilty of Aiding the Enemy

http://www.infowars.com/bradley-manning ... ot-guilty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing unexpected there, the info he released was useless (to anybody). He was found guilty for basically everything else he was charged with .

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/30/justice/m ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fairminded]

Here's a good breakdown of Bradley Manning's situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPJbdXvuEMY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[skmo]

I just read an article with responses from former soldiers about the Bradle Manning verdict. With the exception of one man, everyone of them condemned Manning, one man going so far as to say that Manning was lucky that he was not the judge as he would have given Manning the death sentence. If this is truly indicative of the attitude of most military members we now have serving our country, I believe we have a new group of traitors facing us: The U.S. Soldier.

I do not mean to say that I believe all soldiers are bad, and I support us having a strong military and honor those who serve honorably. However, it seems that being in the military today requires one to entirely submit all personal will and judgement over to the higher command which is afraid to question orders about whether or not they are just because they know that at best they will get an unfavorable report and never again get a promotion, and at worst they could find themselves in Manning's place.

How long must this go on? How long will we continue to allow a corrupt government to demand unjust actions of its military personnel?

[wot]

I just read an article with responses from former soldiers about the Bradle Manning verdict. With the exception of one man, everyone of them condemned Manning, one man going so far as to say that Manning was lucky that he was not the judge as he would have given Manning the death sentence. If this is truly indicative of the attitude of most military members we now have serving our country, I believe we have a new group of traitors facing us: The U.S. Soldier.

I do not mean to say that I believe all soldiers are bad, and I support us having a strong military and honor those who serve honorably. However, it seems that being in the military today requires one to entirely submit all personal will and judgement over to the higher command which is afraid to question orders about whether or not they are just because they know that at best they will get an unfavorable report and never again get a promotion, and at worst they could find themselves in Manning's place.

How long must this go on? How long will we continue to allow a corrupt government to demand unjust actions of its military personnel?

You say this like Manning did something virtuous? He's a liberal, anti-military, anti-American, homosexual activist. He went into the military with malicious intent looking for opportunities to aid and abet dark forces. Breaking every agreement he made, every oath he swore, he stole volumes of confidential material and published it on the internet without regard to how this might effect anybody. He had no first-hand knowledge of the material he was releasing, millions of documents, he hadn't hardly read a one of them, no way to know whether he was putting people in harm's way or not. And then after the dust settled what did we learn? Nothing, he didn't whistleblow anything. He didn't expose any criminal behavior on the part of anybody, on the contrary, the material he released lended even more support to the official war narrative.

He is absolutely lucky. Had he gotten anybody killed this would be playing out much differently. The powers that be are having mercy on him simply because he's pathetic. A truly pathetic excuse for a man, a disturbed kid, that while technically an adult clearly didn't appreciate what he was doing.

If this was Moroni's army he would have been put to death on the spot for his crimes.

[Claymore]

I just read an article with responses from former soldiers about the Bradle Manning verdict. With the exception of one man, everyone of them condemned Manning, one man going so far as to say that Manning was lucky that he was not the judge as he would have given Manning the death sentence. If this is truly indicative of the attitude of most military members we now have serving our country, I believe we have a new group of traitors facing us: The U.S. Soldier.

I do not mean to say that I believe all soldiers are bad, and I support us having a strong military and honor those who serve honorably. However, it seems that being in the military today requires one to entirely submit all personal will and judgement over to the higher command which is afraid to question orders about whether or not they are just because they know that at best they will get an unfavorable report and never again get a promotion, and at worst they could find themselves in Manning's place.

How long must this go on? How long will we continue to allow a corrupt government to demand unjust actions of its military personnel?

You say this like Manning did something virtuous? He's a liberal, anti-military, anti-American, homosexual activist. He went into the military with malicious intent looking for opportunities to aid and abet dark forces. Breaking every agreement he made, every oath he swore, he stole volumes of confidential material and published it on the internet without regard to how this might effect anybody. He had no first-hand knowledge of the material he was releasing, millions of documents, he hadn't hardly read a one of them, no way to know whether he was putting people in harm's way or not. And then after the dust settled what did we learn? Nothing, he didn't whistleblow anything. He didn't expose any criminal behavior on the part of anybody, on the contrary, the material he released lended even more support to the official war narrative.

He is absolutely lucky. Had he gotten anybody killed this would be playing out much differently. The powers that be are having mercy on him simply because he's pathetic. A truly pathetic excuse for a man, a disturbed kid, that while technically an adult clearly didn't appreciate what he was doing.

If this was Moroni's army he would have been put to death on the spot for his crimes.

I agree that he should not have broken any of the trust he was given. He is guilty of that. It seems his sole purpose in joining the military was to just throw documents to the wind in attempt to "expose" foul play. He is not a whistleblower. He did not uncover anything that needed to be addressed nor went about doing it in the proper way. He seems to be a misguided young man that made a really bad choice. All this of course is IMHO.

Forgive me if this derails the thread, but if this were Captain Moroni's army, we would not be in any of the "wars" we are currently fighting. He'd be busy securing the border and preventing any internal overthrow of our civil liberties. He never took the fight to his enemies (invasion) with execption to quelling rebellion.

Claymore

[skmo]

If this was Moroni's army he would have been put to death on the spot for his crimes.

No. I cannot believe that Captain Moroni would have punished anyone for bringing to the light of the people the corruption and brutality of members of the military. Manning went to the proper channels, they rebuffed him and told him to be quiet. He had a moral and legal duty to do what he did.

[wot]

Forgive me if this derails the thread, but if this were Captain Moroni's army, we would not be in any of the "wars" we are currently fighting. He'd be busy securing the border and preventing any internal overthrow of our civil liberties. He never took the fight to his enemies (invasion) with execption to quelling rebellion.

Agreed, no dispute there. I'm just saying, IF, if it was Moroni's army, what Manning did would have been an immediate death sentence, no jury, no trial, no hesitation, done.

I will disagree every so slightly though regarding the war. Regarding the current war, that being Afghanistan, I do think Moroni would have responded and gone into Afghanistan in response to a 911. Note I say "a 911." I think the nuance though is what led to 911. It could be argued that in Moroni's time they wouldn't have meddled overseas and 911 would never have happened. But not necessarily either. Lamanites attacked the Nephites many a time without provocation. So, this would require a much longer conversation on whether we did in fact provoke 911. My position is yes and no. In a sense we did, but it's not that simple, it was an indirect provocation. It's definitely not honest or fair to say 911 was our fault. I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't be as involved over there as we are, but that isn't really Al Qaeda's business. If we choose to have a relationship with another country, right or wrong, doesn't justify what they did. And again a separate conversation, but I would argue that they know this. Their intent wasn't to "punish" us, but rather to provoke us. They made a chess move and we fell for it, that pawn was just too tempting to resist. That's not to say we weren't right to respond, we should have, we just didn't do it in a very smart way.

[wot]

If this was Moroni's army he would have been put to death on the spot for his crimes.

No. I cannot believe that Captain Moroni would have punished anyone for bringing to the light of the people the corruption and brutality of members of the military. Manning went to the proper channels, they rebuffed him and told him to be quiet. He had a moral and legal duty to do what he did.

You haven't the faintest clue what you're talking about. I appreciate your zealous spirit, but the truth is that you're prideful, aloof and self-righteous. The opportunity is plainly before you to see the world as it actually is. But rather than having the humility to take a few steps you get a sense of satisfaction out of thinking yourself right over others, nodoubt with a little bit of victimhood tossed in there as well.

What Manning did was wrong. He did not cast a light on any corruption, brutality, or anything else that in any way resembled a crime. And he certainly didn't attempt any "proper channels." All lies. And by believing such lies posted on conspiracy theory web sites and perpetuating them, what does this say about your character? Instead of even attempting to learn the truth, you immediately side with your personal, heart-felt, anti-military bias, and happily parrot these lies because they reinforce your bias. You know, Joseph Smith might have something to say about this.

[skmo]

...I appreciate your zealous spirit, but the truth is that you're prideful, aloof and self-righteous.

Actually, I'm quite willing to learn better, and as a teacher and researcher, I'm fanatically dedicated to digging through facts and trying to come up with nuggets of truth where I can find them. If anyone here is prideful, it's those who are cheerleaders for the military and desire to see the wars continue. Between civilians looking for peace as well as responsibility in government, and soldiers killing innocent women and children (in addition to the much larger number of combatants they kill) which is doing more to follow the loving example taught by the Savior?

The opportunity is plainly before you to see the world as it actually is.

I do, and I never stop looking, but I have not seen much of anything righteous coming out of our government in over a decade.

But rather than having the humility to take a few steps you get a sense of satisfaction out of thinking yourself right over others,

Which I do get (satisfaction, that is) when I am right, which I believe I am about having a corrupt government

nodoubt with a little bit of victimhood tossed in there as well.

The only thing I'm a victim of is being in a world populated with ignorance and corruption, but as a teacher I'm trying to change this. I can assure you that critical thinking skills is one of the most important things I focus on in my English classes. Don’t accuse me of being a victim, I’ve never played that card in my life in spite of my minority status.

What Manning did was wrong. He did not cast a light on any corruption, brutality, or anything else that in any way resembled a crime. And he certainly didn't attempt any "proper channels." All lies. And by believing such lies posted on conspiracy theory web sites and perpetuating them, what does this say about your character? Instead of even attempting to learn the truth, you immediately side with your personal, heart-felt, anti-military bias, and happily parrot these lies because they reinforce your bias.

Sounds very much like not only are you a pawn of those evil and corrupt souls in our government, you blindly and gladly drink the kool-aid they give you. Good luck with that. I'd recommend that you spend a bit of time on your knees and asking the Lord to help you keep from ringing up too high a bill that you're not going to be able to stand paying when it come due.

You know, Joseph Smith might have something to say about this.

I agree. He’d likely say “That damned government is still involved in killing innocent people like they did with the saints in my time. Can’t you slothful present day Saints be more righteous in reigning in their corruption?”

[InfoWarrior82]

Let's look at some of the revelations among the mountains of information that Bradley Manning leaked, shall we?



During the Iraq War, U.S. authorities failed to investigate hundreds of reports of abuse, torture, rape, and murder by Iraqi police and soldiers, according to thousands of field reports.

There were 109,032 “violent deaths” recorded in Iraq between 2004 and 2009, including 66,081 civilians. Leaked records from the Afghan War separately revealed coalition troops’ alleged role in killing at least 195 civilians in unreported incidents, one reportedly involving U.S. service members machine-gunning a bus, wounding or killing 15 passengers.

The U.S. Embassy in Paris advised Washington to start a military-style trade war against any European Union country that opposed genetically modified crops, with U.S. diplomats effectively working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto.

British and American officials colluded in a plan to mislead the British Parliament over a proposed ban on cluster bombs.

In Baghdad in 2007, a U.S. Army helicopter gunned down a group of civilians, including two Reuters news staff.

U.S. special operations forces were conducting offensive operations inside Pakistan despite sustained public denials and statements to the contrary by U.S. officials.

A leaked diplomatic cable provided evidence that during an incident in 2006, U.S. troops in Iraq executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence. The disclosure of this cable was later a significant factor in the Iraqi government’s refusal to grant U.S. troops immunity from prosecution beyond 2011, which led to U.S. troops withdrawing from the country.

A NATO coalition in Afghanistan was using an undisclosed “black” unit of special operations forces to hunt down targets for death or detention without trial. The unit was revealed to have had a kill-or-capture list featuring details of more than 2,000 senior figures from the Taliban and al-Qaida, but it had in some cases mistakenly killed men, women, children, and Afghan police officers.

The U.S. threatened the Italian government in an attempt to influence a court case involving the indictment of CIA agents over the kidnapping of an Egyptian cleric. Separately, U.S. officials were revealed to have pressured Spanish prosecutors to dissuade them from investigating U.S. torture allegations, secret “extraordinary rendition” flights, and the killing of a Spanish journalist by U.S. troops in Iraq.

In apparent violation of a 1946 U.N. convention, Washington initiated a spying campaign in 2009 that targeted the leadership of the U.N. by seeking to gather top officials’ private encryption keys, credit card details, and biometric data.

[InfoWarrior82]

Here is Bradley Manning's own, 35 page, written statement as to why he leaked the classified (no wonder) information.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/12 ... s-20130312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[wot]

Here is Bradley Manning's own, 35 page, written statement as to why he leaked the classified (no wonder) information.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/12 ... s-20130312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh yes, Manning's lawyer-coached defense statement. (insert rolling eyes)

I notice you are advertising Alex Jones in your profile signature. So every time you post a message there's a little ad for your messiah Alex Jones. For those unaware, Alex Jones is a conspiracy theory radio shock jock that runs around saying 911 was an inside job, boston bombing was an inside job, even that horrible school shooting, it too, you guessed it, an inside job. Yes that's right, the government did all these things. The government hired military contractors to mass murder Americans to justify war, or something. Right now this second, under the guise of natural disaster relief shelters, the government is hurriedly building concentration camps as far as the eye can see. Any day now nuclear war will break out, martial law declared, and we'll be herded into the furnace like cattle. And the evil cabal of jewish bankers behind this worldwide conspiracy somehow stand to make a lot of money from the end of the world, or something.

Perhaps my favorite conspiracy theory of all, Alex Jones says con trails (those white condensation trails) coming out the back of airplanes aren't actually condensation, no, they are chemical trails. Chemicals being released from commercial airliners which have been engineered to brainwash us all, a form of population control. And the very fact that I'm saying these things right now clearly means they've gotten to me. Or maybe I'm a "disinformation agent" planted to go around confusing people.

Forgive me, but you're a nut and quite literally nothing you say has any credibility.

[wot]

Actually, I'm quite willing to learn better, and as a teacher and researcher, I'm fanatically dedicated to digging through facts and trying to come up with nuggets of truth where I can find them. If anyone here is prideful, it's those who are cheerleaders for the military and desire to see the wars continue. Between civilians looking for peace as well as responsibility in government, and soldiers killing innocent women and children (in addition to the much larger number of combatants they kill) which is doing more to follow the loving example taught by the Savior?

Then why are you running your mouth about things you know nothing about instead of asking questions? Why are you talking about cheerleaders for the military? Is anybody doing that here? I'm not sure what that is in reference to...? I thought we were talking about Bradley Manning? Either he committed a crime or he didn't. Apparently he himself acknowledges his own guilt, given the fact that he pleaded guilty to quite a number of charges.

Who are these innocent people you're talking about? You're saying innocent people are killed in war? Yeah, that's the whole point of a war, this isn't news. Manning disagreeing with the war personally doesn't change the criminal nature of his behavior.

Challenge: Present to me the single most damning thing that Manning blew the whistle on. One thing. Don't sent me a bunch of crazy links to conspiracy theory web sites either. Send me a reputable reference.

Sounds very much like not only are you a pawn of those evil and corrupt souls in our government, you blindly and gladly drink the kool-aid they give you. Good luck with that. I'd recommend that you spend a bit of time on your knees and asking the Lord to help you keep from ringing up too high a bill that you're not going to be able to stand paying when it come due.

Well, this is rather off topic, what does this have to do with Manning? But there it is, now you're telling me my business...? And even have the audacity to basically say I'm headed for hell?

Have you served in the military? Have you been to Afghanistan? Have you walked through through Afghan villages and seen the wake of carnage left behind by the Taliban? Have you sat down and talked with Afghans in their homes? Have you prayed in their mosques with them? Have you sat down and talked with Taliban? Have you been shot at? Have you had IEDs go off right next to you, seen people blown to pieces in a grocery store? Have you seen females mutilated because they aren't allowed to have pleasure? Burn marks from acid thrown in their face? I can go on and on with this. You don't even know what you don't know. You have no clue. And I'm someone who is vehemently opposed to the war. A bleeding heart like yourself would immediately break down. After running for the hills to save yourself you'd argue that it's a moral imperative that we stay so that we may protect the Afghans, it would be the "Christian" thing to do.

[InfoWarrior82]

Here is Bradley Manning's own, 35 page, written statement as to why he leaked the classified (no wonder) information.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/12 ... s-20130312" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh yes, Manning's lawyer-coached defense statement. (insert rolling eyes)

I notice you are advertising Alex Jones in your profile signature. So every time you post a message there's a little ad for your messiah Alex Jones. For those unaware, Alex Jones is a conspiracy theory radio shock jock that runs around saying 911 was an inside job, boston bombing was an inside job, even that horrible school shooting, it too, you guessed it, an inside job. Yes that's right, the government did all these things. The government hired military contractors to mass murder Americans to justify war, or something. Right now this second, under the guise of natural disaster relief shelters, the government is hurriedly building concentration camps as far as the eye can see. Any day now nuclear war will break out, martial law declared, and we'll be herded into the furnace like cattle. And the evil cabal of jewish bankers behind this worldwide conspiracy somehow stand to make a lot of money from the end of the world, or something.

Perhaps my favorite conspiracy theory of all, Alex Jones says con trails (those white condensation trails) coming out the back of airplanes aren't actually condensation, no, they are chemical trails. Chemicals being released from commercial airliners which have been engineered to brainwash us all, a form of population control. And the very fact that I'm saying these things right now clearly means they've gotten to me. Or maybe I'm a "disinformation agent" planted to go around confusing people.

Forgive me, but you're a nut and quite literally nothing you say has any credibility.

Why is it, every single time, those who disagree with those who are out arguing that there is an all out conspiracy against our freedoms -- are the ones who are extremely hostile and love to name call? It's been my experience, anyone else's?

Wot, have you gone in detail and researched all of these things you are making fun of?

And, by the way, all you have to say for yourself is: "His lawyer coached him into making up 35 pages worth of extremely detailed instances throughout his military career?" Note, that you have not argued against the damning evidence brought forth by Manning. Maybe it was because it was too good to resist to become distracted and make fun of someone?

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Warnings are being issued guys.... please be nice or I'll have to lock the thread.

[skmo]

Then why are you running your mouth about things you know nothing about instead of asking questions?

I am not “running my mouth” I am stating my conclusions about what I have researched.

Why are you talking about cheerleaders for the military? Is anybody doing that here?

It seems to me that’s what you are doing. I know you’ll disagree with me, but if anyone else here believes I’m wrong about this, please let me know.

I thought we were talking about Bradley Manning? Either he committed a crime or he didn't. Apparently he himself acknowledges his own guilt, given the fact that he pleaded guilty to quite a number of charges.

He pled guilty to some of the charges. There’s no doubt what he did was against the letter of the law. However, since he was witness to atrocities which needed to be brought to the proper authorities, he did so. When this proved to be fruitless because the military decided instead to cover its tracks at multiple levels, he obeyed a higher law, justice. From St. Augustine to Thomas Jefferson to Martin Luther King jr. the principle that an unjust law is no law dictates that if the legal authorities refuse to obey the law, they lose their moral authority to rule.

Who are these innocent people you're talking about?

The 400 or so Pakistani civilians killed, including 176 children.

You're saying innocent people are killed in war? Yeah, that's the whole point of a war, this isn't news.

Help me undertand: Are you saying the WHOLE POINT of a war is that innocent people be killed? I believe the last soldiers who said this in an organized war wore Brown shirts.

Manning disagreeing with the war personally doesn't change the criminal nature of his behavior.

No, it doesn’t. Manning’s personal feelings about the rightness or wrongness about the war don’t affect criminal behavior. Manning reporting the criminal activity of the U.S. does affect it.

Well, this is rather off topic, what does this have to do with Manning? But there it is, now you're telling me my business...? And even have the audacity to basically say I'm headed for hell?

Your defense of the military and their prosecution of Manning for doing the right thing is spot on topic. I won’t tell you your business, but I am offering my reflection of your perspective, which to me appears to be far too supportive of the government given its criminal nature. I am not saying you’ll go to hell as only God decides that, but I am suggesting if you are willing to accept the corrupt actions of the military, you may want to re-evaluate your position.

Have you served in the military?

No. I was in ROTC in College, but I never made it into the military.

Have you been to Afghanistan? Have you walked through through Afghan villages and seen the wake of carnage left behind by the Taliban? Have you sat down and talked with Afghans in their homes? Have you prayed in their mosques with them? Have you sat down and talked with Taliban? Have you been shot at? Have you had IEDs go off right next to you, seen people blown to pieces in a grocery store? Have you seen females mutilated because they aren't allowed to have pleasure? Burn marks from acid thrown in their face? I can go on and on with this.

Yes, you can. It’s also largely irrelevant to the point that we are involved in an unjust war we have no business being in any longer. Our military is causing too many civilian casualties, we are being reviled around the world because of our improper actions, and, most importantly, we are fighting a war we have no constitutional right to. If there is just cause for us to be in a war, let Congress declare war and then we’ll go fight it.

You don't even know what you don't know.

Sure, there are plenty of things I don’t know. How did we, as a people, allow our government to become so corrupt that they’re able to commit murder? When did reporting the illegal actions of the military become something to be vilified for? And why do people eat escargot? It’s just snails in garlic butter! Seems like shrimp cocktail is a much better appetizer to me.

You have no clue.

I do, actually. I understand very well constitutional limits, the designed plan for our government to work fairly and with honor, and the responsibility we all have to do the will of our Father in Heaven. All three of those are things which a majority of our elected officials have forgotten or never bothered to learn in the first place.

A bleeding heart like yourself would immediately break down.

Talk about judging something and someone you know nothing about. I work with underprivileged children who have had such a hard life that it would be incomprehensible to most people. I’ve helped children who have had to put up with sexual abuse on a regular basis, drugs and alcohol, violence as a regular way of life. I am doing what I can to make their world a better place because as a Native myself, I was able to get out and get myself an education. If not for the efforts of others doing the kinds of things I’m doing, many of these kids would have no hope at all. I’ve seen one of my students take a shotgun and blow the head off another one of my students because of a dispute over a girl. Don’t make assumptions about the kinds of things I do unless you have some understanding. My comments to you were merely suggestions based on your own statements.

After running for the hills to save yourself you'd argue that it's a moral imperative that we stay so that we may protect the Afghans, it would be the "Christian" thing to do.

No, because even with the compassion I have for the suffering of the people, I am also aware of the laws of our land, and even if our government is unconcerned with following the law, I am.

[wot]

Wot, have you gone in detail and researched all of these things you are making fun of?

So this is the part where you defend 911 truth and contrails and all that other lunacy? Where you spit on the graves and memory of everybody who has fought for or otherwise served this country?

Not interested. Take a freshman-level engineering class. Grow a brain. Apply common sense. Yes, I am being openly hostile towards you. I despise 911 truthers and everything they stand for - lies, lies, and more lies. Absolute disgrace. And if only I could describe the far-reaching damage that has been done by these movements. The work of Alex Jones has been a great recruiting tool for organizations like Al Qaeda overseas and gun control lobbies here at home. You can thank Alex Jones for getting Ron Paul kicked out of the Republican National Convention last year. And if Rand fails to get the nomination in 2015, you can thank him for that too.

[wot]

I am not “running my mouth” I am stating my conclusions about what I have researched.

Your conclusions are in ignorance and demonstrate extreme bias.

It seems to me that’s what you are doing. I know you’ll disagree with me, but if anyone else here believes I’m wrong about this, please let me know.

Can you quote what I said that constitutes cheerleading for the military?

He pled guilty to some of the charges. There’s no doubt what he did was against the letter of the law. However, since he was witness to atrocities which needed to be brought to the proper authorities, he did so. When this proved to be fruitless because the military decided instead to cover its tracks at multiple levels, he obeyed a higher law, justice. From St. Augustine to Thomas Jefferson to Martin Luther King jr. the principle that an unjust law is no law dictates that if the legal authorities refuse to obey the law, they lose their moral authority to rule.

Uh huh. Any evidence for this? According to the trial information released he made no attempt to expose any atrocities through any proper channels. Can you provide proof showing otherwise?

Ok, well, let's see what these supposed atrocities were.

The 400 or so Pakistani civilians killed, including 176 children

How is this related to anything Manning did? According to your links these are reports put together by various groups, which have no ties to any information Manning released. Also, while this is unfortunate, those aren't war crimes. Care to try again?

Help me undertand: Are you saying the WHOLE POINT of a war is that innocent people be killed? I believe the last soldiers who said this in an organized war wore Brown shirts.

It would truly be nice if those responsible would stand out on a ledge and make things easy, but they don't, they shield themselves with lots of innocent people, hiding behind a whole nation of supposedly innocent people, which we have no choice but to go through. And the fact is, those innocent people are responsible for the actions of their government. It is what it is. It took two nuclear bombs to get Hirohito to yield.

Manning’s personal feelings about the rightness or wrongness about the war don’t affect criminal behavior. Manning reporting the criminal activity of the U.S. does affect it.

Translation?

Your defense of the military and their prosecution of Manning for doing the right thing is spot on topic. I won’t tell you your business, but I am offering my reflection of your perspective, which to me appears to be far too supportive of the government given its criminal nature. I am not saying you’ll go to hell as only God decides that, but I am suggesting if you are willing to accept the corrupt actions of the military, you may want to re-evaluate your position.

I guess this boils down to what it is you think Manning did. I'm still waiting for you to respond to that challenge. Single worst thing he exposed?

Yes, you can. It’s also largely irrelevant to the point that we are involved in an unjust war we have no business being in any longer. Our military is causing too many civilian casualties, we are being reviled around the world because of our improper actions, and, most importantly, we are fighting a war we have no constitutional right to. If there is just cause for us to be in a war, let Congress declare war and then we’ll go fight it.

Really?

One, what does the "justness" have to do with civilian casualties? This is an appeal to emotion. How many "civilian" casualties are too much? Is there a specific % where it becomes wrong? Can you tell me how the % civilian casualties in this war compares with others, say WW2?

Two, where is this evidence of excessive civilian casualties? You have no first-hand knowledge, so what do you base this claim on? References please.

I do, actually. I understand very well constitutional limits, the designed plan for our government to work fairly and with honor, and the responsibility we all have to do the will of our Father in Heaven. All three of those are things which a majority of our elected officials have forgotten or never bothered to learn in the first place.

I won't argue with you here, but that's not a justification for distorting the truth.

Constitutionally, what's wrong with Afghanistan? Congress has authorized the activity.

No, because even with the compassion I have for the suffering of the people, I am also aware of the laws of our land, and even if our government is unconcerned with following the law, I am.

Up to this point all your arguments are based on the morality of war, now you're arguing the Constitution, which is a wholly separate subject. If the heartfelt reasons of minimizing suffering is the ultimate goal, that, ironically, lends itself to justifications for war, defeating your own original argument. It's not fair to ignore this. You're being inconsistent.

[InfoWarrior82]

Wot, have you gone in detail and researched all of these things you are making fun of?

So this is the part where you defend 911 truth and contrails and all that other lunacy? Where you spit on the graves and memory of everybody who has fought for or otherwise served this country?

Not interested. Take a freshman-level engineering class. Grow a brain. Apply common sense. Yes, I am being openly hostile towards you. I despise 911 truthers and everything they stand for - lies, lies, and more lies. Absolute disgrace. And if only I could describe the far-reaching damage that has been done by these movements. The work of Alex Jones has been a great recruiting tool for organizations like Al Qaeda overseas and gun control lobbies here at home. You can thank Alex Jones for getting Ron Paul kicked out of the Republican National Convention last year. And if Rand fails to get the nomination in 2015, you can thank him for that too.

I'm not sure how long you've been around this forum, but 90+% of the members here believe 9/11 was an inside job in one form or another. But since you no longer wish to talk about the damning evidence in the Bradley Manning leak, maybe you would like to read this thread instead:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14104&p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Have a nice day.

[moonwhim]

Hmmmmm.....I think that "gree" has returned under the name of "wot"......!

[uglypitbull]

Perhaps my favorite conspiracy theory of all, Alex Jones says con trails (those white condensation trails) coming out the back of airplanes aren't actually condensation, no, they are chemical trails.

I guess that makes Keith Koehler at NASA a conspiracy theorist.....here is his response to an inquiry regarding geo-engineering (chemtrails)

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:08:59 -0500
Subject: FW: Chemtrails

James:

Your inquiry below was forwarded to me for response. NASA uses chemical or vapor trails to help us understand the space environment particularly in the ionosphere and within auroras. In the past few years we have conducted rocket launches from Alaska, Virginia and the Marshall Islands that have employed the use of these vapor trails. Below is a description of our most recent experiment, the Daytime Dynamo, that employed the use of these vapor trails. The process we use for all of our suborbital rocket experiments is similar to this. Based on your description below, the types of vapor trails we use for scientific study do not fall within what you have documented. If you go to the NASA web site and do a search on aircraft vapor trails you may find some helpful information.If you would like to discuss this further you can call me at 757-824-1579.

Keith Koehler
Office of Communications NASA
Wallops Flight Facility

The Daytime Dynamo Mission, a joint project between NASA and the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA), included the launch of two sounding rockets on July 4 from NASA’s Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia, to study the ionosphere’s global electrical current called the dynamo. The dynamo sweeps through the lower ionosphere at ~100-125 km (60-80 miles) above Earth forming a complicated global pattern due to variations caused by magnetic fields around the Earth and solar activity. The main energy driver of the dynamo is believed to be motions of the neutral gases in the ionosphere, or neutral winds of the extreme upper atmosphere. (These winds have no relation to the winds at the surface of the earth that forms our familiar weather patterns.) Thus, the objectives of the Dynamo Mission include measuring the dynamo current as well as the motions of the neutral gases in space. A standard technique for measuring the motions of the neutral gases in space is to release a very small amount of vapor from a rocket or satellite payload which is then used as a tracer which may be subsequently photographed from the ground (or, in the case of the Dynamo Mission, from an airplane.) Lithium was chosen as the tracer for the Dynamo Mission because of its unusually bright narrow-band emission at 670.7 nm wavelength, a wavelength in the infrared range, which enables it to be visible in the daytime with cameras with infrared filters. The lithium that was released in space poses absolutely no threat to the earth’s biosphere and life on earth. The lithium vapor is created by heating solid metal lithium rods or chips such that they change to lithium vapor with a small amount of lithium oxide which is created as a byproduct. The total amount of lithium that was released in space during the Dynamo Mission was 750 grams (or 1.65 pounds). The estimates of the daily meteoric metal deposition rates in the upper atmosphere range from approximately 40 to 200 tons per day. The peak deposition of the meteoric material occurs in the 80-110 km (50-70 miles) altitude range where most meteors ablate. The lithium metal released by the Dynamo mission was therefore a miniscule fraction of the metals deposited in that altitude range on a daily basis by meteor ablation. Further, the very small amount of lithium that was released in this experiment was spread over a large height range, such that their concentrations are far less than those already present in the natural environment within a few minutes after the initial release. The main scientific motivation for understanding the Earth’s dynamo is that it is fundamental part of nature and our planet’s space environment. Indeed, all planets with a partially ionized upper atmosphere and magnetic field are believed to have dynamo currents. The dynamo currents of Jupiter and Saturn are believed to be quite large, for example. In addition to our desire to understand the earth’s space environment, there is a practical application as well for studying the dynamo currents: The earth’s ionosphere influences radio-wave propagation and thus any disturbances in the ionosphere, such as those associated with the dynamo currents, may influence communication and navigation signals. Thus, understanding the dynamo current in space helps us understand radio-wave propagation in the ionosphere.
For more information on NASA’s sounding rockets program, see: http://www.nasa.gov/soundingrockets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Caption: A global electric current called the dynamo exists in the ionosphere and creates patterns such as those shown here. Credit: USGS Caption: The lithium trail released by the Dynamo rocket reveals the motions of neutral gases in the earth’s ionosphere.

Forgive me, but you're a nut and quite literally nothing you say has any credibility.

Classy #-o

[skmo]

Hmmmmm.....I think that "gree" has returned under the name of "wot"......!

More likely replaced and reassigned to AVOW or some other site.

[wot]

I'm not sure how long you've been around this forum, but 90+% of the members here believe 9/11 was an inside job in one form or another.

Facepalm.

Might I ask then, how do you remain LDS? Considering that the brethren are so completely at odds with you, especially with the prophet giving talks in general conference supporting Afghanistan and whatnot. It is well known that Hinkley visited Bush at the WH on numerous occasions. Bush also visited Salt Lake. So, from your perspective, either his powers of discernment aren't quite so impressive or he's sleeping with the devil.

[uglypitbull]

Facepalm.

Might I ask then, how do you remain LDS?

epic display of unrighteous judgement.....