50 Questions That Challenge Our Traditions

[Daryl]

50 Questions That Challenge Our Traditions

1. What tool did Joseph Smith mostly use to translate the Book of Mormon?
2. In regards to tithing, what is increase?
3. Why do we fold our arms when we pray?
4. Why are church priesthood leaders encouraged to shave off all facial hair?
5. Why is the "little stream" asked to give?
6. Why are the men the only ones who offer blessings of healing?
7. Was the encounter of Joseph's mantel overshadowing Brigham from a righteous source?
8. Why did the Lord ask for wine to be used and we only use water?
9. Why are church leaders encouraging us to affiliate with an organization who's teachings are in direct conflict with the leaders of the church? (BSA)
10. Did Joseph Smith drink alcohol?
11. Was Joseph Smith apposed to Brigham ever becoming the president of the church?
12. Did Joseph Smith actually teach/encourage living a polygamous lifestyle in this life?
13. Do our current general authorities receive pay or stipend from the church?
14. Why were the Lectures on Faith removed from the doctrine and covenants?
15. Is it a commandment to follow the prophet?
16. Should we pay or tithing on gross or net or something else?
17. Did Brigham Young exonerate and support an older jealous Bishop who castrated a young man who was in competition for a young bride and nailed his testicles to the school house door?
18. Did Brigham Young institute a blood oath covenant into the temple ceremony to exact revenge for the death of Joseph?
19. Does the church employ paid apologists?
20. Did Brigham Young prophecy in open and recorded church meetings that if the blacks were to ever receive the priesthood, there would be no power in the priesthood in the church?
21. Did church leaders plot the assassination of Joseph?
22. Did Joseph see one or two beings in his first vision?
23. Did the church use sacred funds or interest gained on sacred funds to build shopping malls, high rise apartments and federal bank buildings (among other things)?
24. Why aren't we allowed to be baptized more than once if they feel so inclined?
25. Why aren't we allowed to have prayer circles outside the temple?
26. Why aren't we allowed to openly discuss the parts of the endowment we do not covenant not to reveal outside the temple?
27. Why were key portions of the endowment removed in 1990?
28. Why are members discouraged from referencing their scriptures during sacrament meetings?
29. Why don't the members at large select a president and other church leaders by vote rather than by sustaining vote only?
30. Why are golden angels ok, but golden calves not ok?
31. Why do graven images of Christ don visitor centers?
32. Why was the name of the Book of Mormon changed?
33. Why is revelation and new knowledge/doctrine continue to come forth like it did from Joseph to our current church leaders?
34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?
35. Does it really take faith not to be healed?
36. Did sisters donate their prized china plates in the temple construction to be ground up and used to make the exterior shiny and sparkle, or were some old plates at the local landfill recycled into the building materials?
37. Does the church data mine use of scripture apps?
38. Why was Eldred Smith released as church patriarch?
39. Is it ok to think about, desire, fantasize, etc. homosexual behaviors as long as they are not acted out?
40. Why are there senior apostles and what does that mean?
41. Why is a linen placed over the sacrament?
42. Why does the presiding authority need to partake of the sacrament first?
43. Why do temple recommends have barcodes on them?
44. Why do members have a membership record number?
45. Why are only leaders invited to ward council meetings?
46. Why are ethnic groups segregated into different wards?
47. Who coined the phrase "follow the prophet"?
48. Who invented those awesome funeral potatoes?
49. Who is going to sort out all the mismatched temple sealings of the dead?
50. Do these questions shake your testimony?

They shouldn't. Be more resolved to believe despite any issues. This is the Lord's church. Period. We might have issues, but this is still the Lord's church and we should be more determined than ever to support, sustain and uphold the Lord's church.

[deep water]

there is a scripture which goes something like this. no man can preform any miracle until first he is cleansed every whit. In the BoM. The descriptions of the church of Christ are: 1. they are built on Christs Gospel 2.Have had their garments washed in his blood. 3. have all things in common. 4.heal the sick. 5. raise the dead. 6.cause the lame to walk. 7. cause the blind to see. 8.cause the deaf to hear. 9. have all manner of miracles. 10.never a happier people. 11.drink poison and it doesn't harm them. 12. received the holy ghost 13.cast out devils. 14. pick up serpents and receive no harm. 15.speak in tongues. 16.lay hands on the sick and they will recover. 17.No contentions or disputations. 18.all free 19.no pour or rich. 20.no lying or murdering. 21.no envy or strife. 22. no sick or lame among them. On the other hand the Great and abominable church, or the church of Man is described as this 1. rich, vain, lifted up in pride. 2.wearing of costly apparel. 3.have the fine things of the world. 4. have goods no more in common. 5.divided into classes. 6.built up church to get gain. 7.deny that there is a true church of God. 8.administer sacrament to the unworthy. 9. profess to know Christ. 10.church grows fast. 11. exercise power and authority over saints of God. 12. built churches and adorned them with precious things. 13. oppressed the hireling in his wages. 14.suffer the hungry, sick, needy, necked, and afflicted to pass by and not notice. 15. turn aside the stranger. 16. false swearers. ---- Jesus was asked where his kingdom was? he replied "my kingdom is not of this earth". We were told we were to be in the earth and not of it. --- Two different Churches. Which one does your church have most in common with? Teachings from the book of Mormon. The first 22 attributes are from the Christ of Christ. And Christ is the head. The next group of 16 are labeled under the church of man. The Devil is the head of this church. Not my words. Just teachings from the Book of Mormon.

[TZONE]

What I thought about when reading this. There is a major war going on. Satan is fighting and winning (though he never will win). We have enough problems we should not be "helping" satan in the fight and also condemning anything that is good. We should support anything that is good. Cover multitudes (generations) of sins with our charity. See them with the charity and atonement applied so that we can benefit together and unify and fight the beast.

There are so many flaws and problems in this world that it does no good to complain or worry about the ones in the Church of God. We should be a light on the mountain top for all to see and hope others will come unto Christ. Be their beacon not another means to see all the thorns and thistles in the pathway. The pathway may be dirty but if we follow and get through it we still will receive the light on top of the mountain.

[Daryl]

there is a scripture which goes something like this. no man can preform any miracle until first he is cleansed every whit. In the BoM. The descriptions of the church of Christ are: 1. they are built on Christs Gospel 2.Have had their garments washed in his blood. 3. have all things in common. 4.heal the sick. 5. raise the dead. 6.cause the lame to walk. 7. cause the blind to see. 8.cause the deaf to hear. 9. have all manner of miracles. 10.never a happier people. 11.drink poison and it doesn't harm them. 12. received the holy ghost 13.cast out devils. 14. pick up serpents and receive no harm. 15.speak in tongues. 16.lay hands on the sick and they will recover. 17.No contentions or disputations. 18.all free 19.no pour or rich. 20.no lying or murdering. 21.no envy or strife. 22. no sick or lame among them. On the other hand the Great and abominable church, or the church of Man is described as this 1. rich, vain, lifted up in pride. 2.wearing of costly apparel. 3.have the fine things of the world. 4. have goods no more in common. 5.divided into classes. 6.built up church to get gain. 7.deny that there is a true church of God. 8.administer sacrament to the unworthy. 9. profess to know Christ. 10.church grows fast. 11. exercise power and authority over saints of God. 12. built churches and adorned them with precious things. 13. oppressed the hireling in his wages. 14.suffer the hungry, sick, needy, necked, and afflicted to pass by and not notice. 15. turn aside the stranger. 16. false swearers. ---- Jesus was asked where his kingdom was? he replied "my kingdom is not of this earth". We were told we were to be in the earth and not of it. --- Two different Churches. Which one does your church have most in common with? Teachings from the book of Mormon. The first 22 attributes are from the Christ of Christ. And Christ is the head. The next group of 16 are labeled under the church of man. The Devil is the head of this church. Not my words. Just teachings from the Book of Mormon.

Awesome list you have made. I would love to go through this list and put one or two BOM references by each point.

[Daryl]

What I thought about when reading this. There is a major war going on. Satan is fighting and winning (though he never will win). We have enough problems we should not be "helping" satan in the fight and also condemning anything that is good. We should support anything that is good. Cover multitudes (generations) of sins with our charity. See them with the charity and atonement applied so that we can benefit together and unify and fight the beast.

There are so many flaws and problems in this world that it does no good to complain or worry about the ones in the Church of God. We should be a light on the mountain top for all to see and hope others will come unto Christ. Be their beacon not another means to see all the thorns and thistles in the pathway. The pathway may be dirty but if we follow and get through it we still will receive the light on top of the mountain.

Great point. My language is to do everything you have mentioned while being in truth about what the traditions mean.

[TZONE]

The Gospel of Deep Water:
Chapter 1: No man can preform any miracle until first he is cleansed every whit. In the BoM. The descriptions of the church of Christ are:
1. they are built on Christs Gospel
2.Have had their garments washed in his blood.
3 have all things in common.
4.heal the sick.
5. raise the dead.
6.cause the lame to walk.
7. cause the blind to see.
8.cause the deaf to hear.
9. have all manner of miracles.
10.never a happier people.
11.drink poison and it doesn't harm them.
12. received the holy ghost
13.cast out devils.
14. pick up serpents and receive no harm.
15.speak in tongues.
16.lay hands on the sick and they will recover.
17.No contentions or disputations.
18.all free
19.no pour or rich.
20.no lying or murdering.
21.no envy or strife.
22. no sick or lame among them.

Chapter 2:
On the other hand the Great and abominable church, or the church of Man is described as this

1. rich, vain, lifted up in pride.
2.wearing of costly apparel.
3.have the fine things of the world.
4. have goods no more in common.
5.divided into classes.
6.built up church to get gain.
7.deny that there is a true church of God.
8.administer sacrament to the unworthy.
9. profess to know Christ.
10.church grows fast.
11. exercise power and authority over saints of God.
12. built churches and adorned them with precious things.
13. oppressed the hireling in his wages.
14.suffer the hungry, sick, needy, necked, and afflicted to pass by and not notice.
15. turn aside the stranger.
16. false swearers.

Footnotes:
---- Jesus was asked where his kingdom was? he replied "my kingdom is not of this earth". We were told we were to be in the earth and not of it. --- Two different Churches. Which one does your church have most in common with? Teachings from the book of Mormon. The first 22 attributes are from the Christ of Christ. And Christ is the head. The next group of 16 are labeled under the church of man. The Devil is the head of this church. Not my words. Just teachings from the Book of Mormon.

Awesome list you have made. I would love to go through this list and put one or two BOM references by each point.

^#(^ ^#(^

[SpeedRacer]

50 Questions That Challenge Our Traditions

1. What tool did Joseph Smith mostly use to translate the Book of Mormon?
2. In regards to tithing, what is increase?
3. Why do we fold our arms when we pray?
4. Why are church priesthood leaders encouraged to shave off all facial hair?
5. Why is the "little stream" asked to give?
6. Why are the men the only ones who offer blessings of healing?
7. Was the encounter of Joseph's mantel overshadowing Brigham from a righteous source?
8. Why did the Lord ask for wine to be used and we only use water?
9. Why are church leaders encouraging us to affiliate with an organization who's teachings are in direct conflict with the leaders of the church? (BSA)
10. Did Joseph Smith drink alcohol?
11. Was Joseph Smith apposed to Brigham ever becoming the president of the church?
12. Did Joseph Smith actually teach/encourage living a polygamous lifestyle in this life?
13. Do our current general authorities receive pay or stipend from the church?
14. Why were the Lectures on Faith removed from the doctrine and covenants?
15. Is it a commandment to follow the prophet?
16. Should we pay or tithing on gross or net or something else?
17. Did Brigham Young exonerate and support an older jealous Bishop who castrated a young man who was in competition for a young bride and nailed his testicles to the school house door?
18. Did Brigham Young institute a blood oath covenant into the temple ceremony to exact revenge for the death of Joseph?
19. Does the church employ paid apologists?
20. Did Brigham Young prophecy in open and recorded church meetings that if the blacks were to ever receive the priesthood, there would be no power in the priesthood in the church?
21. Did church leaders plot the assassination of Joseph?
22. Did Joseph see one or two beings in his first vision?
23. Did the church use sacred funds or interest gained on sacred funds to build shopping malls, high rise apartments and federal bank buildings (among other things)?
24. Why aren't we allowed to be baptized more than once if they feel so inclined?
25. Why aren't we allowed to have prayer circles outside the temple?
26. Why aren't we allowed to openly discuss the parts of the endowment we do not covenant not to reveal outside the temple?
27. Why were key portions of the endowment removed in 1990?
28. Why are members discouraged from referencing their scriptures during sacrament meetings?
29. Why don't the members at large select a president and other church leaders by vote rather than by sustaining vote only?
30. Why are golden angels ok, but golden calves not ok?
31. Why do graven images of Christ don visitor centers?
32. Why was the name of the Book of Mormon changed?
33. Why is revelation and new knowledge/doctrine continue to come forth like it did from Joseph to our current church leaders?
34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?
35. Does it really take faith not to be healed?
36. Did sisters donate their prized china plates in the temple construction to be ground up and used to make the exterior shiny and sparkle, or were some old plates at the local landfill recycled into the building materials?
37. Does the church data mine use of scripture apps?
38. Why was Eldred Smith released as church patriarch?
39. Is it ok to think about, desire, fantasize, etc. homosexual behaviors as long as they are not acted out?
40. Why are there senior apostles and what does that mean?
41. Why is a linen placed over the sacrament?
42. Why does the presiding authority need to partake of the sacrament first?
43. Why do temple recommends have barcodes on them?
44. Why do members have a membership record number?
45. Why are only leaders invited to ward council meetings?
46. Why are ethnic groups segregated into different wards?
47. Who coined the phrase "follow the prophet"?
48. Who invented those awesome funeral potatoes?
49. Who is going to sort out all the mismatched temple sealings of the dead?
50. Do these questions shake your testimony?

They shouldn't. Be more resolved to believe despite any issues. This is the Lord's church. Period. We might have issues, but this is still the Lord's church and we should be more determined than ever to support, sustain and uphold the Lord's church.

Put the answers you are familiar with, with references.

I once had a serious issue with no facial hair and serving in the temple. While I do not wear facial hair, it was appalling that none of the Presidents and much of the Quorum of the twelve from the inception of the church until Heber J. Grant and beyond could serve as ordinance workers in todays church if they maintained their facial hair with which they served in the top leadership roles. While there may be serious questions as to some of the people in these roles, the fact still remains they could not serve as ordinance workers, but could be apostles. In my anger, which I thought was righteous anger, D&C 89 came to mind.

Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

We, as a body, have grown weak. And like the Jews of old with their hedged law, so we have had to hedge our law. We just cannot abide Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy might and with all thy strength, and love thy neighbor as thyself. So yes, some of these questions may shake the faith of some, so we protect those who may be called saints, but may not be worthy of so great a title. And we hope, it may be a false hope, that those whose faith may be shaken by such questions can find strength in the Lord in some future day and abide all truth.

[deep water]

Daryl; If you want to find this list it is hidden towards the end of the book. Start in 3 Nephi and every time Mormon or Moroni break into the commentary write down their words. The list is given just like the Gospel is given. Line upon line, here a little they're a little. Two or three verses here. Half a chapter their. Isn't it interesting how the Lord works! Another thought: Lehi's son Nephi wanted to tell us all he knew but was stopped by the Lord. He gave us a copy (isa ch 2- ch 26) of almost all of the first half of Isaiah. He had been shown us by the lord and knew us. but couldn't give us more warning than the lord would allow. He would have known that we would have had the Bible and that Isaiah would have been included in it. So why did he put in ch 2- ch 26 and leave out ch 1 and ch28 and ch29 the three most YOU HAD BETTER REPENT chapters in the whole book. Could it be that : He having loved Isaiah's writings and style was trying to communicate in secret what the lord had told him he couldn't tell us in plainness? By excluding the obvious.

[Sheol27]

there is a scripture which goes something like this. no man can preform any miracle until first he is cleansed every whit. In the BoM. The descriptions of the church of Christ are: 1. they are built on Christs Gospel 2.Have had their garments washed in his blood. 3. have all things in common. 4.heal the sick. 5. raise the dead. 6.cause the lame to walk. 7. cause the blind to see. 8.cause the deaf to hear. 9. have all manner of miracles. 10.never a happier people. 11.drink poison and it doesn't harm them. 12. received the holy ghost 13.cast out devils. 14. pick up serpents and receive no harm. 15.speak in tongues. 16.lay hands on the sick and they will recover. 17.No contentions or disputations. 18.all free 19.no pour or rich. 20.no lying or murdering. 21.no envy or strife. 22. no sick or lame among them. On the other hand the Great and abominable church, or the church of Man is described as this 1. rich, vain, lifted up in pride. 2.wearing of costly apparel. 3.have the fine things of the world. 4. have goods no more in common. 5.divided into classes. 6.built up church to get gain. 7.deny that there is a true church of God. 8.administer sacrament to the unworthy. 9. profess to know Christ. 10.church grows fast. 11. exercise power and authority over saints of God. 12. built churches and adorned them with precious things. 13. oppressed the hireling in his wages. 14.suffer the hungry, sick, needy, necked, and afflicted to pass by and not notice. 15. turn aside the stranger. 16. false swearers. ---- Jesus was asked where his kingdom was? he replied "my kingdom is not of this earth". We were told we were to be in the earth and not of it. --- Two different Churches. Which one does your church have most in common with? Teachings from the book of Mormon. The first 22 attributes are from the Christ of Christ. And Christ is the head. The next group of 16 are labeled under the church of man. The Devil is the head of this church. Not my words. Just teachings from the Book of Mormon.

Neil A. Maxwell said, "If we are to see things more clearly, we too must lift ourselves above the secular smog." Clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that it is possible that part of our church belongs to the Church of the Lamb and part to the Church of the Devil. We need to choose whom we serve. If we live righteous and seek the Lord great things can happen personally to us in our lives. I am a witness to that.

[EmmaLee]

32. Why was the name of the Book of Mormon changed?

34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?

50. Do these questions shake your testimony?

Would someone who knows please elaborate on #'s 32 and 34? I'd never heard the Book of Mormon had a different name at one time - what was it and when did it change and under what circumstances and by whom? And what is the (possible) significance of who designed the conf. center? Who is Joel Olstein? Thanks!

As for #50, my answer is nope, not in the least. A few years ago when I became aware of all the other questions on your list (and more), I wondered if it would; but now my testimony is of Jesus Christ and his gospel - nothing man does (or doesn't do) can or will shake that.

[jo1952]

Neil A. Maxwell said, "If we are to see things more clearly, we too must lift ourselves above the secular smog." Clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that it is possible that part of our church belongs to the Church of the Lamb and part to the Church of the Devil. We need to choose whom we serve. If we live righteous and seek the Lord great things can happen personally to us in our lives. I am a witness to that.

As do all churches.

[Sheol27]

Neil A. Maxwell said, "If we are to see things more clearly, we too must lift ourselves above the secular smog." Clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that it is possible that part of our church belongs to the Church of the Lamb and part to the Church of the Devil. We need to choose whom we serve. If we live righteous and seek the Lord great things can happen personally to us in our lives. I am a witness to that.

As do all churches.

Yep

[jo1952]

Neil A. Maxwell said, "If we are to see things more clearly, we too must lift ourselves above the secular smog." Clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that it is possible that part of our church belongs to the Church of the Lamb and part to the Church of the Devil. We need to choose whom we serve. If we live righteous and seek the Lord great things can happen personally to us in our lives. I am a witness to that.

As do all churches.

Yep

Hi Sheol27,

I believe that each individual, depending upon a choice they have made, can move between the spiritual churches. One moment they can be serving God; the next moment be serving satan....back and forth.

jo

[Sheol27]

Yes for sure. You make a get point that we can switch teams at will.

[Durfinator12]

there is a scripture which goes something like this. no man can preform any miracle until first he is cleansed every whit. In the BoM. The descriptions of the church of Christ are: 1. they are built on Christs Gospel 2.Have had their garments washed in his blood. 3. have all things in common. 4.heal the sick. 5. raise the dead. 6.cause the lame to walk. 7. cause the blind to see. 8.cause the deaf to hear. 9. have all manner of miracles. 10.never a happier people. 11.drink poison and it doesn't harm them. 12. received the holy ghost 13.cast out devils. 14. pick up serpents and receive no harm. 15.speak in tongues. 16.lay hands on the sick and they will recover. 17.No contentions or disputations. 18.all free 19.no pour or rich. 20.no lying or murdering. 21.no envy or strife. 22. no sick or lame among them. On the other hand the Great and abominable church, or the church of Man is described as this 1. rich, vain, lifted up in pride. 2.wearing of costly apparel. 3.have the fine things of the world. 4. have goods no more in common. 5.divided into classes. 6.built up church to get gain. 7.deny that there is a true church of God. 8.administer sacrament to the unworthy. 9. profess to know Christ. 10.church grows fast. 11. exercise power and authority over saints of God. 12. built churches and adorned them with precious things. 13. oppressed the hireling in his wages. 14.suffer the hungry, sick, needy, necked, and afflicted to pass by and not notice. 15. turn aside the stranger. 16. false swearers. ---- Jesus was asked where his kingdom was? he replied "my kingdom is not of this earth". We were told we were to be in the earth and not of it. --- Two different Churches. Which one does your church have most in common with? Teachings from the book of Mormon. The first 22 attributes are from the Christ of Christ. And Christ is the head. The next group of 16 are labeled under the church of man. The Devil is the head of this church. Not my words. Just teachings from the Book of Mormon.

Neil A. Maxwell said, "If we are to see things more clearly, we too must lift ourselves above the secular smog." Clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that it is possible that part of our church belongs to the Church of the Lamb and part to the Church of the Devil. We need to choose whom we serve. If we live righteous and seek the Lord great things can happen personally to us in our lives. I am a witness to that.

We all will have to make the choice.
Hopefully we will be able to have the strength of Abraham.

D&C 101:4-5

4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.
5 For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.

[AussieOi]

50 Questions That Challenge Our Traditions

1. What tool did Joseph Smith mostly use to translate the Book of Mormon?
A rock and a hat. Within 3 years this will be standard taught in LDS church via more introduction in Ensign. “he also used a rock and hat on more than 1 occasion..but” will be how they tell us

2. In regards to tithing, what is increase?
Its surplus. They just want our money because they really did need it in 1899, and then had to use the carrot of “blessings” to sell it, and then it got away from them, and now they can’t put the sauce back into the bottle


3. Why do we fold our arms when we pray?
Lessen distraction. Because we don’t get on our knees

4. Why are church priesthood leaders encouraged to shave off all facial hair?

Marketing. IN the 60’s the Beatles and hippies did not reflect the image we wanted our off to war kids to have, and we want them to be very different, so we went that way. And now its just about recognition and outward appearance. The perception that white shirt and tie and suit in all weather and no facial hair equates to godly.

5. Why is the "little stream" asked to give?

not familiar

6. Why are the men the only ones who offer blessings of healing?

Because our women are second class citizens. Unless they are the chosen LDS variety, then in the temple when these people get a GA do their 2nd anointing, the do give a blessing to their husbands there.

8. Why did the Lord ask for wine to be used and we only use water?

Questions don’t follow
Wine is how sacrament was and is meant to be
Fears of drink spiking in the 1830s stopped the wine. Tthen it got away from us. The prohibition nailed it shut. Very sad

9. Why are church leaders encouraging us to affiliate with an organization who's teachings are in direct conflict with the leaders of the church? (BSA)
Do not care about BSA

10. Did Joseph Smith drink alcohol?

Oh yes, my word he did. As did most of the Gas in the subsequent 70 years. JS win AFAIK, the others lilked the odd spirits

12. Did Joseph Smith actually teach/encourage living a polygamous lifestyle in this life?
Amongst a select few yes

13. Do our current general authorities receive pay or stipend from the church?
Gas $120k approx. The 12 get $600k pa allegedly, plus $1m non repayable loan when they become a 12 to pay off their debts so no one has wood no them. I accept that. Some don’t accept it.
I know one of the 15 who rejects availability of the Church (Huntsman) jet for his family to meet him in foreign locations for family holidays

15. Is it a commandment to follow the prophet?

Of course it makes sense to. Its just been pitched to us so heavily we forget Jesus in it all and lose our own brains in the blind obedience

16. Should we pay or tithing on gross or net or something else?
Absolutely
Its on surplus, and we should also contribute offerings to the poor as well
Some argue it should ONLY go the church, others say Zion is very well and truly built up and the church’s debts are paid off now (as Per Sec 119) and the whole world is the lords kingdom, so they pay it elsewhere

17. Did Brigham Young exonerate and support an older jealous Bishop who castrated a young man who was in competition for a young bride and nailed his testicles to the school house door?

It would appear he did based on my readings. Study polygamous societies- even in nature. Its alpha male baby. Religion is an easy way to win the alpha fight that nature would normally put to a battle

19. Does the church employ paid apologists?

It doesn’t need to. Members will clean toilets for free. They will log on any make up any unverifiable twiddle for free
Otherwise, the “church”? No, The Neal Maxwell institute does, and FAIR does, and FARMS does/ did. Who owns them I guess.
Define paid? Yes, it has many employees who spend a lot of time salting the well. Whether they are directed to or do it in their own surf time is open to debate.

20. Did Brigham Young prophecy in open and recorded church meetings that if the blacks were to ever receive the priesthood, there would be no power in the priesthood in the church?

Oh and a lot more of them down to McConchie said the same and worse

21. Did church leaders plot the assassination of Joseph?

Absolutely. Members really need to understand Bro Law and the issues behind the Nauvoo newspaper and what he was printing that led to it being destroyed, and who Law was, and why he was angry
Did BY try to have Emma Smith Poisoned? allegedly

22. Did Joseph see one or two beings in his first vision?

Which version of the 1st vision. The 4 known ones came out 8-20 years after the event
Still, refer the 4 gospels. Admittedly they weren’t written by the same person

23. Did the church use sacred funds or interest gained on sacred funds to build shopping malls, high rise apartments and federal bank buildings (among other things)?
Haha. Next


24. Why aren't we allowed to be baptized more than once if they feel so inclined?

Cos we’v ebeen baptised. Can we be born of the womb more than once?

25. Why aren't we allowed to have prayer circles outside the temple?

Why are we allowed to inside the temple? Is there a need?
Issues of order of prayer need a temple for that don’t they?

26. Why aren't we allowed to openly discuss the parts of the endowment we do not covenant not to reveal outside the temple?
Make a rule to cover 10 points if you aren’t sure which 5 points should or shouldn’t be discussed. Cover-all I guess

27. Why were key portions of the endowment removed in 1990?

Sex abuse recovery trauma, dated, realisation they were a product of their time, Masonic awareness by anti’s ,etc

28. Why are members discouraged from referencing their scriptures during sacrament meetings?

Efficiency. But they aren’t discouraged from referencing their scriptures at all. They are discouraged from asking members to open their scriptures. This is a really poor question

29. Why don't the members at large select a president and other church leaders by vote rather than by sustaining vote only?
Yeah, by prophecy and laying on of hands. Pretty poor isn’t it. How was judas replaced should be the template. But we are trained and corporatized. We wont take the risk of a loose canon.
It’s a franchise master system and we need to make sure the guys have been schooled at the McMormon GA academy
We believe in Assumption by Deicide

30. Why are golden angels ok, but golden calves not ok?

We don’t worship moroni. This is stupid

31. Why do graven images of Christ don visitor centers?

Well this one isn’t stupid and as far as I am concerned Jehovah said thou shalt not make any graven image of me.
That said, this is Jesus. Not Jehovah. That’s technical. Blacks and Asians would probably understand the reason behind graven image. Jesus being a white man I love that, yeah, go Nordic Jesus!

33. Why is revelation and new knowledge/doctrine continue to come forth like it did from Joseph to our current church leaders?

I have no idea what the question is but my observation is that there isn’t much to hang our hat on to their resembling PSRs as we read in the scripture.


34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?

Who is he? Is he the grandson of 2 Presidents, and did he also design the City Creek, and lots of other church buildings? Or was that the builders?


35. Does it really take faith not to be healed?
That was ludicrous. I got his point, but it was pathetic. And from an apostle to peddle that was pretty sad. That said, maybe it says a similar thing in the new testament?

36. Did sisters donate their prized china plates in the temple construction to be ground up and used to make the exterior shiny and sparkle, or were some old plates at the local landfill recycled into the building materials?

Maybe, maybe not. There’s a lot of good stories that get mormonised in myth, you get that everywhere. Im sure whatever they did was a sacrifice

38. Why was Eldred Smith released as church patriarch?

Yeah this one is troubling- do we, don’t we, why don’t we?

39. Is it ok to think about, desire, fantasize, etc. homosexual behaviors as long as they are not acted out?

Why limit that the SSA? On that basis, the operative is think, desire, fantasize. Jesus was pretty clear about lust.

40. Why are there senior apostles and what does that mean?

Paid more maybe

41. Why is a linen placed over the sacrament?

Keep flies off? Why do we take lid off oil to consecrate it? Maybe same reason?
Then again we don’t do linen when we do home sacraments. I guess its Pomp & ceremony

42. Why does the presiding authority need to partake of the sacrament first?

Tradition. It never sat well with me. 1st time was ego trip, after that. I should have sent it to the chorister first. But that was then

43. Why do temple recommends have barcodes on them?

There’s probably 10 paid positions and 3 contracts based around those bar codes. I have no problem. They say they don’t keep tabs of who comes in. I guess it helps with planning. Makes sense. They control our lives down to the undies we wear. This aint a biggie

44. Why do members have a membership record number?

So we can be assigned cleaning assignments more efficiently
Stupid question. Even rotary members have a number. I’d love a world where its walk in and go home type of USA Founders world where we work the farm and our families live in villages and John Snow is wandering for 2 years. Oh wait.

45. Why are only leaders invited to ward council meetings?

Because it’s pretty rude to talk about a person and families private and personal issues and their welfare needs infront of complete strangers. Oh, wait

46. Why are ethnic groups segregated into different wards?

Because the missionaries find and baptise them faster than these peoples motivation to learn the language and assimilate into a new country they have moved to- and we want to spiritually nourish them. if we want to be brutally honest,

47. Who coined the phrase "follow the prophet"?

Some marketing person who probably also had the contract for Procter and Gamble.


49. Who is going to sort out all the mismatched temple sealings of the dead?

The issue this is asking is not how do they work this out in the millennium, its actually who is the bubble boy?
That is, if there are 3 degrees, and we are all judged, who is the person just let in, and what less/ more did they do than the person who just misses out?

50. Do these questions shake your testimony?
Not even close. The in/actions of the church leaders over the last 10 years has done that for me
15 minutes on the internet did as much as well

These questions are reasonable. They are asked in a way that might make someone think. And if they did a little bit of further research, THEN they might go “hang on, why have I never heard this before”
They are clever from that perspective

The 76 Luther thesis by the anonymous people was poor as well.
I could do a lot better in 30 minutes. Theirs had too much angst

The LDS church as a Book, and a restoration, first vision. Aside from that, it struggles.

Its leaders are products of the 40’s to 70’s predominately, and modelled on those they surrounded as they grew up.

Depending on the gene pool they have been drawn from, it will either adjust and address, and come clean on these and redefine a lot about itself, or circle the wagons and we will lose half our members

When Pres Packer becomes the President, we might see a clear distinction one way or another.
From a long term perspective, I think Pres Monson is just an interim president, from an historical perspective.

[Sheol27]

50 Questions That Challenge Our Traditions

1. What tool did Joseph Smith mostly use to translate the Book of Mormon?
A rock and a hat. Within 3 years this will be standard taught in LDS church via more introduction in Ensign. “he also used a rock and hat on more than 1 occasion..but” will be how they tell us

2. In regards to tithing, what is increase?
Its surplus. They just want our money because they really did need it in 1899, and then had to use the carrot of “blessings” to sell it, and then it got away from them, and now they can’t put the sauce back into the bottle


3. Why do we fold our arms when we pray?
Lessen distraction. Because we don’t get on our knees

4. Why are church priesthood leaders encouraged to shave off all facial hair?

Marketing. IN the 60’s the Beatles and hippies did not reflect the image we wanted our off to war kids to have, and we want them to be very different, so we went that way. And now its just about recognition and outward appearance. The perception that white shirt and tie and suit in all weather and no facial hair equates to godly.

5. Why is the "little stream" asked to give?

not familiar

6. Why are the men the only ones who offer blessings of healing?

Because our women are second class citizens. Unless they are the chosen LDS variety, then in the temple when these people get a GA do their 2nd anointing, the do give a blessing to their husbands there.

8. Why did the Lord ask for wine to be used and we only use water?

Questions don’t follow
Wine is how sacrament was and is meant to be
Fears of drink spiking in the 1830s stopped the wine. Tthen it got away from us. The prohibition nailed it shut. Very sad

9. Why are church leaders encouraging us to affiliate with an organization who's teachings are in direct conflict with the leaders of the church? (BSA)
Do not care about BSA

10. Did Joseph Smith drink alcohol?

Oh yes, my word he did. As did most of the Gas in the subsequent 70 years. JS win AFAIK, the others lilked the odd spirits

12. Did Joseph Smith actually teach/encourage living a polygamous lifestyle in this life?
Amongst a select few yes

13. Do our current general authorities receive pay or stipend from the church?
Gas $120k approx. The 12 get $600k pa allegedly, plus $1m non repayable loan when they become a 12 to pay off their debts so no one has wood no them. I accept that. Some don’t accept it.
I know one of the 15 who rejects availability of the Church (Huntsman) jet for his family to meet him in foreign locations for family holidays

15. Is it a commandment to follow the prophet?

Of course it makes sense to. Its just been pitched to us so heavily we forget Jesus in it all and lose our own brains in the blind obedience

16. Should we pay or tithing on gross or net or something else?
Absolutely
Its on surplus, and we should also contribute offerings to the poor as well
Some argue it should ONLY go the church, others say Zion is very well and truly built up and the church’s debts are paid off now (as Per Sec 119) and the whole world is the lords kingdom, so they pay it elsewhere

17. Did Brigham Young exonerate and support an older jealous Bishop who castrated a young man who was in competition for a young bride and nailed his testicles to the school house door?

It would appear he did based on my readings. Study polygamous societies- even in nature. Its alpha male baby. Religion is an easy way to win the alpha fight that nature would normally put to a battle

19. Does the church employ paid apologists?

It doesn’t need to. Members will clean toilets for free. They will log on any make up any unverifiable twiddle for free
Otherwise, the “church”? No, The Neal Maxwell institute does, and FAIR does, and FARMS does/ did. Who owns them I guess.
Define paid? Yes, it has many employees who spend a lot of time salting the well. Whether they are directed to or do it in their own surf time is open to debate.

20. Did Brigham Young prophecy in open and recorded church meetings that if the blacks were to ever receive the priesthood, there would be no power in the priesthood in the church?

Oh and a lot more of them down to McConchie said the same and worse

21. Did church leaders plot the assassination of Joseph?

Absolutely. Members really need to understand Bro Law and the issues behind the Nauvoo newspaper and what he was printing that led to it being destroyed, and who Law was, and why he was angry
Did BY try to have Emma Smith Poisoned? allegedly

22. Did Joseph see one or two beings in his first vision?

Which version of the 1st vision. The 4 known ones came out 8-20 years after the event
Still, refer the 4 gospels. Admittedly they weren’t written by the same person

23. Did the church use sacred funds or interest gained on sacred funds to build shopping malls, high rise apartments and federal bank buildings (among other things)?
Haha. Next


24. Why aren't we allowed to be baptized more than once if they feel so inclined?

Cos we’v ebeen baptised. Can we be born of the womb more than once?

25. Why aren't we allowed to have prayer circles outside the temple?

Why are we allowed to inside the temple? Is there a need?
Issues of order of prayer need a temple for that don’t they?

26. Why aren't we allowed to openly discuss the parts of the endowment we do not covenant not to reveal outside the temple?
Make a rule to cover 10 points if you aren’t sure which 5 points should or shouldn’t be discussed. Cover-all I guess

27. Why were key portions of the endowment removed in 1990?

Sex abuse recovery trauma, dated, realisation they were a product of their time, Masonic awareness by anti’s ,etc

28. Why are members discouraged from referencing their scriptures during sacrament meetings?

Efficiency. But they aren’t discouraged from referencing their scriptures at all. They are discouraged from asking members to open their scriptures. This is a really poor question

29. Why don't the members at large select a president and other church leaders by vote rather than by sustaining vote only?
Yeah, by prophecy and laying on of hands. Pretty poor isn’t it. How was judas replaced should be the template. But we are trained and corporatized. We wont take the risk of a loose canon.
It’s a franchise master system and we need to make sure the guys have been schooled at the McMormon GA academy
We believe in Assumption by Deicide

30. Why are golden angels ok, but golden calves not ok?

We don’t worship moroni. This is stupid

31. Why do graven images of Christ don visitor centers?

Well this one isn’t stupid and as far as I am concerned Jehovah said thou shalt not make any graven image of me.
That said, this is Jesus. Not Jehovah. That’s technical. Blacks and Asians would probably understand the reason behind graven image. Jesus being a white man I love that, yeah, go Nordic Jesus!

33. Why is revelation and new knowledge/doctrine continue to come forth like it did from Joseph to our current church leaders?

I have no idea what the question is but my observation is that there isn’t much to hang our hat on to their resembling PSRs as we read in the scripture.


34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?

Who is he? Is he the grandson of 2 Presidents, and did he also design the City Creek, and lots of other church buildings? Or was that the builders?


35. Does it really take faith not to be healed?
That was ludicrous. I got his point, but it was pathetic. And from an apostle to peddle that was pretty sad. That said, maybe it says a similar thing in the new testament?

36. Did sisters donate their prized china plates in the temple construction to be ground up and used to make the exterior shiny and sparkle, or were some old plates at the local landfill recycled into the building materials?

Maybe, maybe not. There’s a lot of good stories that get mormonised in myth, you get that everywhere. Im sure whatever they did was a sacrifice

38. Why was Eldred Smith released as church patriarch?

Yeah this one is troubling- do we, don’t we, why don’t we?

39. Is it ok to think about, desire, fantasize, etc. homosexual behaviors as long as they are not acted out?

Why limit that the SSA? On that basis, the operative is think, desire, fantasize. Jesus was pretty clear about lust.

40. Why are there senior apostles and what does that mean?

Paid more maybe

41. Why is a linen placed over the sacrament?

Keep flies off? Why do we take lid off oil to consecrate it? Maybe same reason?
Then again we don’t do linen when we do home sacraments. I guess its Pomp & ceremony

42. Why does the presiding authority need to partake of the sacrament first?

Tradition. It never sat well with me. 1st time was ego trip, after that. I should have sent it to the chorister first. But that was then

43. Why do temple recommends have barcodes on them?

There’s probably 10 paid positions and 3 contracts based around those bar codes. I have no problem. They say they don’t keep tabs of who comes in. I guess it helps with planning. Makes sense. They control our lives down to the undies we wear. This aint a biggie

44. Why do members have a membership record number?

So we can be assigned cleaning assignments more efficiently
Stupid question. Even rotary members have a number. I’d love a world where its walk in and go home type of USA Founders world where we work the farm and our families live in villages and John Snow is wandering for 2 years. Oh wait.

45. Why are only leaders invited to ward council meetings?

Because it’s pretty rude to talk about a person and families private and personal issues and their welfare needs infront of complete strangers. Oh, wait

46. Why are ethnic groups segregated into different wards?

Because the missionaries find and baptise them faster than these peoples motivation to learn the language and assimilate into a new country they have moved to- and we want to spiritually nourish them. if we want to be brutally honest,

47. Who coined the phrase "follow the prophet"?

Some marketing person who probably also had the contract for Procter and Gamble.


49. Who is going to sort out all the mismatched temple sealings of the dead?

The issue this is asking is not how do they work this out in the millennium, its actually who is the bubble boy?
That is, if there are 3 degrees, and we are all judged, who is the person just let in, and what less/ more did they do than the person who just misses out?

50. Do these questions shake your testimony?
Not even close. The in/actions of the church leaders over the last 10 years has done that for me
15 minutes on the internet did as much as well

These questions are reasonable. They are asked in a way that might make someone think. And if they did a little bit of further research, THEN they might go “hang on, why have I never heard this before”
They are clever from that perspective

The 76 Luther thesis by the anonymous people was poor as well.
I could do a lot better in 30 minutes. Theirs had too much angst

The LDS church as a Book, and a restoration, first vision. Aside from that, it struggles.

Its leaders are products of the 40’s to 70’s predominately, and modelled on those they surrounded as they grew up.

Depending on the gene pool they have been drawn from, it will either adjust and address, and come clean on these and redefine a lot about itself, or circle the wagons and we will lose half our members

When Pres Packer becomes the President, we might see a clear distinction one way or another.
From a long term perspective, I think Pres Monson is just an interim president, from an historical perspective.

I give you credit for answering all of those. That is interesting what you said about President Monson. I guess time will tell. I take it you think more highly of President Packer? He is definitely more blunt that is for sure. I don't mean that negatively for anyone...... I generally like to surround myself with more blunt/ honest people than not.

[AussieOi]

Time will tell. He is certainly divisive

[Thomas]

32. Why was the name of the Book of Mormon changed?

34. Who was the conference center originally designed by? Joel Olstein?

50. Do these questions shake your testimony?

Would someone who knows please elaborate on #'s 32 and 34? I'd never heard the Book of Mormon had a different name at one time - what was it and when did it change and under what circumstances and by whom? And what is the (possible) significance of who designed the conf. center? Who is Joel Olstein? Thanks!

As for #50, my answer is nope, not in the least. A few years ago when I became aware of all the other questions on your list (and more), I wondered if it would; but now my testimony is of Jesus Christ and his gospel - nothing man does (or doesn't do) can or will shake that.

I can answer 34 for you.

http://youtu.be/why91Nw6jV0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He lives in a ten million dollar house. I think the reference is about Joel's arena size church. He teaches a lot about material prosperity and little about repentance.

I would say he has built up his church for gain.

[AussieOi]

God wants you to be rich.

Google that term
same in Oz.

[Daryl]

Thanks for your honest feedback.

Yeah, I know some of those questions were either stupid or misleading or unclear or simply a non-issue. Most important is to get our brains to wake up to our situation and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repent and progress.

I love the church and the members. There is nothing better in this world. I will remain stalwart and aware!

[kathyn]

AussieOi, I don't think Pres. Packer will be the next prophet; his health is very poor.

[Rose Garden]

Daryl, still waiting on the answer to 32. I've never heard of a name change.

[Daryl]

Daryl, still waiting on the answer to 32. I've never heard of a name change.

From:

The Book of Mormon

To:

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ.

[Rose Garden]

Oh. Gotcha.