Race of Cain/Brigham young

[cayenne]

What do you all think of this quote? The whole race of Abel have not yet received priesthood, so how can blacks now hold priesthood?


Brigham Young (JD 7:290-91)



“However, in a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.) The whole house of Israel was chosen as a peculiar people, one set apart from all other nations (Ex. 19:5-6; Deut. 7:6; 14:2); and they were forbidden to marry outside their own caste. (Ex. 34:10-17; Deut. 7:1-5.) In effect the Lamanites belonged to one caste and the Nephites to another, and a mark was put upon the Lamanites to keep the Nephites from intermixing with and marrying them. (Alma 3:6-11.) All this is not to say that any race, creed, or caste should be denied any inalienable rights. But it is to say that Deity in his infinite wisdom, to carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system of segregation of races and peoples. The justice of such a system is evident when life is considered in its true eternal perspective. It is only by a knowledge of pre-existence that it can be known why some persons are born in one race or caste and some in another.”



(Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., p.114)

[gkearney]

Simple, Brigham Young was wrong.

[moving2zion]

Simple, Brigham Young was wrong.

Simple modern revelation says we have moved past that point. Though there is definitely wisdom in marrying someone of a similar background. Politics, religion, similar financial views and upbringing. They all give us something to build on. Ethnicity can be a foundation block; some people like variety, others seek out similarities.

I wish I had the quote handy but I don't at the moment. Gordon B. Hinkley several years back was at singles ward fireside and stated that he could take any two people in the room and put them together. As long as they both lived the commandments and kept their temple covenants they would have a successful marriage.

That is a pretty strong statement coming from the prophet of the day. [wish I knew now where I put that quote!] It causes us to stop and evaluate some of our pre conceived notions. It also gives us a gut check on whether we are being to judgmental both of ourselves and others around us. I like to think that this principle were applied in other areas of our lives we might be able to get along with others better. Business would improve and customer relations would improve. However we know that not all men will choose this path and as a result protections have been put in place that we can avoid unnecessary attacks on our faith. I say keep your chin up and look for the best in others.

[Elizabeth]

Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, his understanding of Eternal Law is on a higher plane than that of his critics.

[SmallFarm]

Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, his understanding of Eternal Law is on a higher plane than that of his critics.

Even your great Brigham Young has little understanding of God and His purpose. We all fall short, very short. Some of us think ourselves wise, but that kind of thinking is prideful and comes before the fall. God made Brigham Young the leader of His church on Earth for a wise purpose, but that does not mean that Brigham Young has a monopoly on Truth.

[jbalm]

Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, his understanding of Eternal Law is on a higher plane than that of his critics.

Very debateable. Both of your points.

[davedan]

"All I can say is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world." Elder McConkie

[chemish]

He was President Brigham Young, case in point.

"Heber is my prophet, and I love to hear him prophesy." President Brigham Young; speaking of Heber C. Kimball

[EmmaLee]

I wish I had the quote handy but I don't at the moment. Gordon B. Hinkley several years back was at singles ward fireside and stated that he could take any two people in the room and put them together. As long as they both lived the commandments and kept their temple covenants they would have a successful marriage. That is a pretty strong statement coming from the prophet of the day. [wish I knew now where I put that quote!]

Are you thinking of this quote?

“‘Soul mates’ are fiction and an illusion; and while every young man and young woman will seek with all diligence and prayerfulness to find a mate with whom life can be most compatible and beautiful, yet it is certain that almost any good man and any good woman can have happiness and a successful marriage if both are willing to pay the price." Spencer W. Kimball - “Oneness in Marriage,” Ensign, Mar. 1977, 4

[sandman45]

Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, his understanding of Eternal Law is on a higher plane than that of his critics.

I agree with sarah. +1.

Reminds me of isaiah 55: 8-9.

Im sure if God revealed just a little bit of new revelation through Pres Monson most people would call him crazy like you all do of BY and Joe Smith

[firend]

"All I can say is that it is time disbelieving people repented and got in line and believed in a living, modern prophet. Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or George Q. Cannon or whoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world." Elder McConkie

The only thing about this quote that confuses me is: Brigham Young received several thus saith The Lord revelations, but I can't think of one in the last how any years? Saying that Brigham Young had limited understanding is kind of bizarre. I personally don't agree with everything Brigham ever said because he was a man, but he did learn under Joseph himself and had several revelations direct from God. The revelations of God always have the same pattern, giving God the direct credit as in "thus saith The Lord"......I am not aware of any revelation giving God the first person credit he deserves since wayyyyyyy back when.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Elijah Abel was ordained an elder on March 3, 1836 in Kirtland, Ohio by Joseph Smith. In 1839, Abel was made a member of the Nauvoo Seventies Quorum. While living in Nauvoo, Illinois, he worked as a mortician at the request of Joseph Smith. In 1841, when Smith was arrested in Quincy, Illinois, Abel was among a group of seven elders who set out from Nauvoo to try to rescue him, although by the time they reached Quincy, Smith had been taken back to Nauvoo.

In 1842, Walker Lewis converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is believed to have been baptized by Parley P. Pratt. One year later, in the summer of 1843, Lewis was ordained an Elder by William Smith, brother of founder Joseph Smith. Lewis became the third black man known to hold the Mormon priesthood. (The first two were Elijah Abel and a man known only as Black Pete.)

The first known black Latter-day Saint was "Black Pete", who joined the Church in Kirtland, Ohio, and there is some evidence that he held the LDS priesthood. Besides those above, other African Americans, including Joseph T. Ball in 1835 or 1836 (who also presided over the Boston Branch from 1844–1845), Walker Lewis's son Enoch Lovejoy Lewis, were ordained to the priesthood during Smith's lifetime. William McCary was ordained in Nauvoo in 1846 by Apostle Orson Hyde. Two of the descendants of Elijah Abel were also ordained Elders, and two other black men, Samuel Chambers and Edward Leggroan, were ordained Deacons.

Early black members in the Church were admitted to the temple in Kirtland, Ohio, where Elijah Abel received the ritual of washing and anointing (see Journal of Zebedee Coltrin). Abel also participated in at least two baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo, Illinois, as did Elder Joseph T. Ball.

Joseph Smith was very outspoken about equality for blacks, and even included equality and abolition of slavery as part of his goals as he ran for president. I do not know of any sources showing that Joseph Smith felt the blacks should not hold the priesthood. The ban on blacks holding the priesthood did not come about until Brigham Young (who was very outspoken about his dislike for blacks) was president of the church.

[Sheol27]

Elijah Abel was ordained an elder on March 3, 1836 in Kirtland, Ohio by Joseph Smith. In 1839, Abel was made a member of the Nauvoo Seventies Quorum. While living in Nauvoo, Illinois, he worked as a mortician at the request of Joseph Smith. In 1841, when Smith was arrested in Quincy, Illinois, Abel was among a group of seven elders who set out from Nauvoo to try to rescue him, although by the time they reached Quincy, Smith had been taken back to Nauvoo.

In 1842, Walker Lewis converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. He is believed to have been baptized by Parley P. Pratt. One year later, in the summer of 1843, Lewis was ordained an Elder by William Smith, brother of founder Joseph Smith. Lewis became the third black man known to hold the Mormon priesthood. (The first two were Elijah Abel and a man known only as Black Pete.)

The first known black Latter-day Saint was "Black Pete", who joined the Church in Kirtland, Ohio, and there is some evidence that he held the LDS priesthood. Besides those above, other African Americans, including Joseph T. Ball in 1835 or 1836 (who also presided over the Boston Branch from 1844–1845), Walker Lewis's son Enoch Lovejoy Lewis, were ordained to the priesthood during Smith's lifetime. William McCary was ordained in Nauvoo in 1846 by Apostle Orson Hyde. Two of the descendants of Elijah Abel were also ordained Elders, and two other black men, Samuel Chambers and Edward Leggroan, were ordained Deacons.

Early black members in the Church were admitted to the temple in Kirtland, Ohio, where Elijah Abel received the ritual of washing and anointing (see Journal of Zebedee Coltrin). Abel also participated in at least two baptisms for the dead in Nauvoo, Illinois, as did Elder Joseph T. Ball.

Joseph Smith was very outspoken about equality for blacks, and even included equality and abolition of slavery as part of his goals as he ran for president. I do not know of any sources showing that Joseph Smith felt the blacks should not hold the priesthood. The ban on blacks holding the priesthood did not come about until Brigham Young (who was very outspoken about his dislike for blacks) was president of the church.

I had heard that Joseph Smith had ordained blacks as well. It's nice to read the actual information than go by hearsay. Thanks for the info!

[AussieOi]

Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, his understanding of Eternal Law is on a higher plane than that of his critics.

Well, we sure know he didn't think Adam was black.
sure, he thought he was God, but hey.

[Seek the Truth]

Some people have been saying on this forum that the LDS Church doesn't have the Melchizedek Priesthood at all, making the black issue moot. You can't deny something you don't have.

Blacks have been denied the priesthood going back to Jacob.

Interracial "mingling" in the time of BY would mean slaveowners essentially raping their slaves.

In 1800's America and elsewhere almost everyone was a racist, including abolitionists in many cases.

The BOM states the dark skin is a curse.

JS taught that blacks shouldn't marry outside their race (TPJS).

BY said the curse would be lifted.

BY received a revelation from God D&C 135. Had a testimony of Jesus as well. Prophet.

[Seek the Truth]

Simple, Brigham Young was wrong.

Well, not really. In reality intermarriage is prohibited all throughout scripture. It simply can't be denied. It is uncomfortable for modern peoples, but it goes way, way, way beyond BY.

[AussieOi]

Wow. Nice one

[jbalm]

Since when is following contemporary mores an excuse for immoral behavior?

[Elizabeth]

Brigham Young served as Prophet and LDS Church President for over 30 years. Those who deride him deride also the very foundations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“ Brigham Young was the leader of a people, driven before the cannon and bayonet of a heartless and cruel mob, who fled across the Mississippi in winter, leaving their homes without opportunity to provide food or clothing, and plundered of all they could not carry, and to go they knew not where; and to save the lives of all these many thousands now developed on Brigham Young, even to look after the possibilities of transportation, to learn the way, to open the road, to see that all had food, and then protect them from the tomahawk, scalping knife and bullet; and when in the Valleys, to measure out land, to formulate laws, and to counsel the people how to save a pittance from swarms of crickets and locusts that ravaged their fields” (Benjamin F. Johnson letter to George S. Gibbs, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 16).

[SmallFarm]

Brigham Young served as Prophet and LDS Church President for over 30 years. Those who deride him deride also the very foundations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“ Brigham Young was the leader of a people, driven before the cannon and bayonet of a heartless and cruel mob, who fled across the Mississippi in winter, leaving their homes without opportunity to provide food or clothing, and plundered of all they could not carry, and to go they knew not where; and to save the lives of all these many thousands now developed on Brigham Young, even to look after the possibilities of transportation, to learn the way, to open the road, to see that all had food, and then protect them from the tomahawk, scalping knife and bullet; and when in the Valleys, to measure out land, to formulate laws, and to counsel the people how to save a pittance from swarms of crickets and locusts that ravaged their fields” (Benjamin F. Johnson letter to George S. Gibbs, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 16).

Who is deriding him?

[SouthernMormon]

It is claimed that nearly everyone in Antebellum America was a "racist". Therefore, their opinions and views are irrelevant. They are just shaped by prejudice. The question we must ask is this - why should we assume that everyone post 1960s/1970s is "objective" and not "tainted" by "prejudice"? Do we deny that people in our own time are prejudiced? Do we honestly believe the mores of America circa 1840s / 1850s were worse then those that rule the world today? I, for one, agree with Brigham Young. I am a convert to the Church, and when I learned of the doctrines as regards blacks, I was not perturbed by them, except that they had changed in 1978. That was the only obstacle to my joining as regards race.

[jbalm]

And that, my friends, is why we don't need to lose any sleep over the South "rising again."

[Seek the Truth]

Let's put it this way.

BY said the "curse" would be lifted, and that "blacks" would receive the Priesthood. He also echoed teachings of the BOM and the Bible in regard to race. BY is a pretty insignificant player in all of this, LDS or no.

Now, I come from an interracial family and do not have a racist cell in my body, I find the topic boring and uninteresting. But for whatever reason the Bible and BOM teach racial separation for the most part, for whatever reason.

Now that has been "changed" I'm not sure what the big deal is. Christ came and changed the law. I don't really undertand all that, why for a thousand years all jews had to live a certain law that we do not have to live anymore. Like wise with race, I do not understand it but clearly this is not an LDS issue.

[AussieOi]

Brigham Young served as Prophet and LDS Church President for over 30 years. Those who deride him deride also the very foundations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“ Brigham Young was the leader of a people, driven before the cannon and bayonet of a heartless and cruel mob, who fled across the Mississippi in winter, leaving their homes without opportunity to provide food or clothing, and plundered of all they could not carry, and to go they knew not where; and to save the lives of all these many thousands now developed on Brigham Young, even to look after the possibilities of transportation, to learn the way, to open the road, to see that all had food, and then protect them from the tomahawk, scalping knife and bullet; and when in the Valleys, to measure out land, to formulate laws, and to counsel the people how to save a pittance from swarms of crickets and locusts that ravaged their fields” (Benjamin F. Johnson letter to George S. Gibbs, Archives of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 16).

Oh well Adam was god then I guess
Ben (F) Johnson says so.

[SouthernMormon]

My own view on the matter, which is probably quite heretical in the views of most, is that the bans on plural marriage and ordaining blacks to the priesthood, were a case of God allowing us to live a lesser law. This does not make it legitimate however. God's law itself, does not change. Most of the property of the Church was confiscated and everything was broken up in the post Civil War era. Similarly the property of the South was seized during the 1860s. And not just the slaves either. My family's plantation was flat-out burned to the Ground. The persecution of the Mormons by the federal government, was quite similar to that of the South. The Federal government blocked both Deseret, and the Confederacy. Further, the Federal government has no Constitutional authority to annex new territories, or block states from seceding. I simply view it (abolishing plural marriage, united order) as the LDS Church caving the way the South caved on the 13th, 14th, 15th amendments (all of which were illegitimately ratified), and later the 'Civil Rights' acts. The fact is, that, since the mid 19c, the Federal government has really just been Northeastern imperialism towards the South, Midwest and Western states internally; and foreign nations (e.g. Japan, Cuba) externally. "We" (America) are not a nation or a republic, we are an Empire- a conquering bloodthirsty Empire. That is the truth, whether you can stomach it or not.