LDS Freedom Forum

Come on Leslie, we are all damaged.
What do you think avatars are all about?
Why take on that as a fight?

Don't sweat it, Aussie.

A misogynist with a girl's name is harping on me about contradictions.

This is just too good.

You know, Aussie, I decided decades ago if 'a celestial law' is such that it cannot be understood and lived happily by ALL parties concerned, openly and in the bright of day sunshine, by a sincere follower of Christ then I will live somewhere else in the Eternities. I can do that.

My husband is welcome to do what he chooses. If that's the ticket to Eternal Life, he can take as many wives - spiritual or otherwise - as he can muster. He will be just one shy when he takes the final count.

For now, he grumbles that he cannot imagine an eternity of being a disappointment to more than one woman.

There are many odd precepts floating around that may not be resolved until we arrive over yonder. I'm simple enough that my first question will probably have to do with what happened to those missing socks from the pair that were washed & dried.

I do know this. The Lord Jesus Christ KNOWS US individually. He wants us to be happy, wise, successful, loving, and brave according to our unique personal capabilities and inclinations. If Heaven is made of those who are as innocent as small children, eternity will be spent in good company.

I have no need to hobnob with the illustrious from mortality. Let them find their own and be happy among one another. That will be their heaven. Are there 'groupies' in heaven. I don't know....

I had a dream of heaven awhile back. Everyone was about the same age, beautiful, engaged in interesting work, and purposeful. They were happy.

Well...all except for the ones who had just arrived and were having to wait in a foyer while their 'paper work' was being brought to the big desk in front of them. They seemed 'peeved' at the wait, but the longer they sat, a kind of uneasiness began to flush up from deep within them and 'melt' away their rather fixed expressions of entitlement.

buffalo_girl wrote: For now, he grumbles that he cannot imagine an eternity of being a disappointment to more than one woman.

Amen to that!! A true hell.

jbalm wrote:Don't sweat it, Aussie.

A misogynist with a girl's name is harping on me about contradictions.

This is just too good.

Well that is truly humorous... no, seriously-

but this is what the comedian does to evade an issue. Do I have my issues? Undoubtedly. Is misogyny one of them? that would be unsubstantiated conjecture by the uninformed.

I am really not, I don't believe. But rather I get weary of the degree to which feminism has been infused into our attitudes, our doctrine, and our popular speech.

So I stand in defense of males on other threads and therefore I am a misogynist to JBalm.... this label, when used by males onto other males usually indicates they are the weak-sister type guys who just want to pander to feminists for cheap laughs and a fleeting popularity. But it is PC and therefore acceptable.

What is misogyny in really JBalm? I assume if you can toss the term out for yuks you can generate at least one post of mine that proves it?

Was it my defense of polygamy as an actual ordained institution?
Was it my defense of Joseph Smith when you and Anselm were essentially calling him a polyandrist?

ahh now we get to the gist of it. But if you really have a valid intellectual contribution to make on this subject please post it and reference me there.

LesliePOV wrote:

jbalm wrote:Don't sweat it, Aussie.

A misogynist with a girl's name is harping on me about contradictions.

This is just too good.

but this is what the comedian does to evade an issue.

his avatar is an issue?

LesliePOV wrote:Further and as important: How do you see your attitude toward Joseph Smith changing if you were to encounter him in the next life, considering your not infrequent innuendo toward and disparagement of him?

Well my guess is he'd probably give him a hug. He didn't blame anyone for not believing his story.

Leslie is a fella? No way.


As for JS...even he said he wouldn't believe his story.

Which is probably why we get the hobbled together version with contradictions and inconsistencies

AussieOi wrote:Leslie is a fella? No way.


As for JS...even he said he wouldn't believe his story.

Which is probably why we get the hobbled together version with contradictions and inconsistencies

Yeah I am a guy.

And maybe you're right. but jBalm has been dogging me with nonsense like that for weeks already. why stop now?

ajax wrote:

LesliePOV wrote:

jbalm wrote:Don't sweat it, Aussie.

A misogynist with a girl's name is harping on me about contradictions.

This is just too good.

but this is what the comedian does to evade an issue.

Ajax saide: his avatar is an issue?

Possibly

Are the clothes we wear and the way we groom ourselves and how we carry ourselves and the voice we use presenting ourselves to others potential issues?

How bout the expressions we greet others with....

Okay well, maybe a first impression isn't everything.

What about the cover of a book? Is it not designed to make the book appealing? Don't judge a book by its cover is partly nonsense.

Yeah we can try not to judge- but someone is throwing darts at you consistently it draws your attention to what is motivating them. When on a discussion forum they offer plenty of wit yet little constructive substance you begin to think of them as just unproductive and angry.

I have been labeled and disdained exactly this way too--- as a malcontent in wards and at the time I did not think I deserved it either.

I have been struck by and outspoken in my observations and harsh judgements of ward members of hive-mind 'entrainment' cognitive dissonance,idiocy and notable lack of inspiration as well...

This has often been a reflection of the state of MY hardened heart.

jBalm has been dogging me with nonsense like that for weeks already.

It's obvious jbalm is a rare, quixotic being.

Leslie, are you the one that complained about drjme's original avatar?

ajax wrote:Leslie, are you the one that complained about drjme's original avatar?

No I was not.

buffalo_girl wrote:

jBalm has been dogging me with nonsense like that for weeks already.

It's obvious jbalm is a rare, quixotic being.

Clearly I resemble a wind mill. Why is the guy so upset with windmills? They do a lot of good.

I'm still seriously in shock you're a bloke
Re the avatars...bro, this is the internet. Its anonymous, and we are here because we need therapy.

Methinks you over thought this one

Clearly I resemble a wind mill. Why is the guy so upset with windmills? They do a lot of good.

To be honest, I haven't 'strictly' followed the repartee between the two of you. I'm not sure if jbalm considers you a 'wind mill'.

Maybe I flipped the metaphor. Maybe you are the rare, quixotic being and jbalm is the wind mill.

Geez, I leave for a few hours, and good old defender-of-men Leslie is still carrying on.

He may be both Don Q. and the windmill, for all I know.

I think I'll just sit back and savor the deliciousness.

jbalm wrote:Geez, I leave for a few hours, and good old defender-of-men Leslie is still carrying on.

He may be both Don Q. and the windmill, for all I know.

I think I'll just sit back and savor the deliciousness.

Perhaps I am a bi-polar impeller stuck in a loop. :p

This is a while later and I just had to say that 'POMPOUS MINION' even tho' directed at me, is actually pretty hilarious.

«Are you serious with this? You just want people to leave the church??»

When people are doing a serious effort to seek answers, I will gladly answer them. When people are just after an excuse for leaving, without having the nerve to do so, they should do what they have to do, for their own sake. If they are of good heart, as I believe Mr. Aussie is, they always come back.

Last time I have seen, the adhesion to the LDS Church was voluntary. People are to make their own choices. If they do not like the Church's direction, as directed by the general authorities, and wish not to resolve their issues in sincerity and prayer, and take the place in the high and spacious building, maybe it is time for them to rethink their lives. Actually, the cision of the Church is imminent, and, playing with words, will also be eminent.

Jo1952,

I am a <b>personal</b> witness of miracles of the kind told in the old Church. To be precise, I am speaking specifically of healing, blessings coming to pass, prophecy, changing the weather, taming of beats, gift of tongues, just from the top of my mind. Others are that I will reserve myself from any mention. Those miracles do not occur everyday, but they do occur on sacred occasions, to confirm the faith of the saints.

Please be assured that the power of priesthood is living and acting today as it was before.

francisco.colaco wrote:
Jo1952,

I am a <b>personal</b> witness of miracles of the kind told in the old Church. To be precise, I am speaking specifically of healing, blessings coming to pass, prophecy, changing the weather, taming of beats, gift of tongues, just from the top of my mind. Others are that I will reserve myself from any mention. Those miracles do not occur everyday, but they do occur on sacred occasions, to confirm the faith of the saints.

Please be assured that the power of priesthood is living and acting today as it was before.

These manifestations of Priesthood power are taking place all over the earth, in all organized institutions of religion; not only in the LDS Church. We do not have exclusivity to Priesthood power. It is the very same Priesthood power being accessed and experienced both inside and outside of the Church.

For a short time in the early Restored Church, there were great manifestations of the Holy Ghost similar to those of the ancient church:

During the weeks surrounding the dedication of the Kirtland Temple, the Saints experienced an outpouring of heavenly manifestations, which included the appearance of angels and the Saints seeing visions, uttering prophecies, and speaking in tongues. http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8 ... mple&type=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The magnitude of what is described above, and in the book of Acts, chapter 2, in the ancient church, is no longer apparent inside of the Church. That magnitude has dwindled inside of the Restored Church just as it dwindled inside of the ancient church. The miracles being experienced inside of the Church today are no different from those being experienced outside of the Church today.

francisco.colaco wrote: When people are doing a serious effort to seek answers, I will gladly answer them. When people are just after an excuse for leaving, without having the nerve to do so, they should do what they have to do, for their own sake. If they are of good heart, as I believe Mr. Aussie is, they always come back.

This attitude is very problematic. It is the reason why people leave the church. They feel there is no way for them to ask questions without the kind of judgement you have demonstrated in these words. A church that wallows in the law is a church that wallows in judgement. And of course the members are taught to judge and judge and judge. Anyone who steps out of line is brought under the heaviest of peer pressure. And of course the members actually believe they are doing God's work. So the thought of judging others never enters their mind.

I know that it is God that brings the souls of man back to Him. I know that we will all wander around in darkness for some time but God will find us in His own time. I trust God and His schedule. But some people don't trust God to do His work. They have their own schedule and others around them must be brought into line NOW. To act as if one is God without being prompted is antiGod. Once you lose the faith to trust God then you really have lost touch with the Spirit of God.

I have come to respect many beliefs and I see God in many belief systems that just a few years ago I would have classified as idol worship. I do believe that God uses almost everything around us to bring the spirits of His children back to Him. For the most part men hinder God's efforts. Of course men don't see it that way. Men for the most part have tunnel vision and see almost nothing yet we tend to think we are masters in what we do. We all are trying to build our own tower to God. Some more than others. But God is right here with us and if we let Him He will guide us to love each other and not to judge each other while we are on this most difficult journey.

I will tell you a truth that is very hard to hear. The judgement that the church hands out in spades is God's work. Not for the church but for the one who receives the judgement. That person who receives the judgement will come to hate judgement. Then one day that person who hates judgement will learn not to judge others having received some critical amount of unfair judgement. That person will reject the law and will reject the judgement that comes with it. Then that person is ready to have God's higher laws written on their heart.

The last paragraph does not seem to follow from the rest of your post, Franktalk.

" The judgement that the church hands out in spades is God's work."

Is that what you meant to say?

farfromhome wrote:The last paragraph does not seem to follow from the rest of your post, Franktalk.

" The judgement that the church hands out in spades is God's work."

Is that what you meant to say?

It is exactly what I meant to say. I fully embrace 2 Nephi 2 in which composite opposites must exist. God does not make sin yet sin exist as a way for us to learn light from darkness. God does not make unrighteous judgement but it exist in order for us to feel its effects.

Franktalk,

« They feel there is no way for them to ask questions without the kind of judgement you have demonstrated in these words.»

They do not ask questions: they present their perceived truth, their unindisputable new found paradigm, as something that needs to be sold and adopted by everyone else (just like Zeezrom or the pharisees). They would find faults in Christ, if Christ had not been resurrected two thousand years ago and were not mythified in their minds. Actually, their mention of Christ reeks of little will to keep the commandments. Christ for those people is an excuse more than a goal.

So, when those impossible questions they get eventually answered, and they did, in good cheer, they do not want to listen, and attack in turn the one who tries to help. Pearls were given to swines, and the swines, as Christ related, turned against those who fed them. These are the Zeezrom of today. I wish I could sell one of them for what they think they are worth, after buying them for what they are. What a profit I would have made!

Attacks ad hominem are normally perpetrated by any who comes to know they have no intellectual baggage to reply. And are devoid of education and respect, I shall add. I was taught to be educated with my peers, even with my adversaries, but I can write elaborate sarcasm to the sloths in more languages than you think. And I am quite known for that, and am not in good grace at the leftist organisations in this country.

But here I prefer not to use sarcasm and style tools: there is little point in not being understood by other LDS, specially those who are trying to make me believe that they have found out the religious enlightenment prior than me.

francisco.colaco wrote: But here I prefer not to use sarcasm and style tools: there is little point in not being understood by other LDS, specially those who are trying to make me believe that they have found out the religious enlightenment prior than me.

Of primary concern to all of us should be the saving of souls. Everything else is nothing but vapor and a dream. But how do we assist God in His plan to save souls? Do we set up a pile of rules and say to people unless you believe as I believe and do as I do you can't go to heaven? In one sense some are to do that very thing. This is God setting the stage. For those in the law they see what they do as righteous judgement under the command of God. But for those who are seeking an end to judgement then they will see the judgement as unrighteous. Both sides are doing what is necessary to achieve God's work. What is most strange is God knows our heart so if we do err but we feel we are doing good God's knows it. Only He can sort out this big entanglement of cause and effect.

Paul was tracking down Christians to kill them but he thought he was doing God's work. He later was educated so he had a better idea what God wished him to do. But some other man I am sure took Paul's place to kill Christians. God did not take the process of killing off the earth but He needed a man like Paul to do different work. He knew the heart of Paul and his dedication. So Paul was bringing people to Christ at the same time other Jews were killing them. The test for many of the early Christians was to death. In God's eyes someone had to test the new Christians. God being long suffering knows that in time even those killing Christians will come around just like Paul came around.

I do not sit in judgement of the church. I may talk about things which in my mind are inconsistent or presented in a false light but the role the church plays in God's plan is important. Now you may disagree with how I view the role of the church. I have no problem with that. If you are at a point that the laws are seen as critical for salvation then by all means hold to that truth. I am not telling you otherwise. But if a day comes and you change that view don't be surprised by me saying your new view is also correct and should be followed.

Franktalk wrote:

francisco.colaco wrote: But here I prefer not to use sarcasm and style tools: there is little point in not being understood by other LDS, specially those who are trying to make me believe that they have found out the religious enlightenment prior than me.

Of primary concern to all of us should be the saving of souls. Everything else is nothing but vapor and a dream. But how do we assist God in His plan to save souls? Do we set up a pile of rules and say to people unless you believe as I believe and do as I do you can't go to heaven? In one sense some are to do that very thing. This is God setting the stage. For those in the law they see what they do as righteous judgement under the command of God. But for those who are seeking an end to judgement then they will see the judgement as unrighteous. Both sides are doing what is necessary to achieve God's work. What is most strange is God knows our heart so if we do err but we feel we are doing good God's knows it. Only He can sort out this big entanglement of cause and effect.

Paul was tracking down Christians to kill them but he thought he was doing God's work. He later was educated so he had a better idea what God wished him to do. But some other man I am sure took Paul's place to kill Christians. God did not take the process of killing off the earth but He needed a man like Paul to do different work. He knew the heart of Paul and his dedication. So Paul was bringing people to Christ at the same time other Jews were killing them. The test for many of the early Christians was to death. In God's eyes someone had to test the new Christians. God being long suffering knows that in time even those killing Christians will come around just like Paul came around.

I do not sit in judgement of the church. I may talk about things which in my mind are inconsistent or presented in a false light but the role the church plays in God's plan is important. Now you may disagree with how I view the role of the church. I have no problem with that. If you are at a point that the laws are seen as critical for salvation then by all means hold to that truth. I am not telling you otherwise. But if a day comes and you change that view don't be surprised by me saying your new view is also correct and should be followed.

What is noted in red above is certainly the mind set for mortals past and present, speaking collectively and not individually. It seem to me men use the name of "God" and "Christ" for their "gain" of worldly recognition and profit. When in reality "God" is just trying to "wake" us up as Nephi...

Awake, my soul! No longer droop in sin. Rejoice, O my heart, and give place no more for the enemy of my soul.(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 4:28)

I have mentioned this before on another post, that Christ came to save people from religion but men have made a religion out of Him for the wrong reasons. Paul nailed a lot of things correctly...

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.(New Testament | Romans 13:10)

Why does man have to make things so complicated?