Is "Following Prophet" a "Commandment"

[InfoWarrior82]

...Maybe can someone give examples of something a prophet said that is NOT considered a commandment?

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." Journal of Discourses Vol 10, p.109)

"We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it...

The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen." Joseph Fielding Smith

But for the most part I fully support the Prophet.

Was BY referring to scripture?

JFS was referring to the fact that we will never intermingle with other worlds.

P.S. you're sure we went to the moon?

But yes, you're right that many times prophets will speak their own opinions in talks. I guess the general rule of thumb is when a prophet says something along the lines of: Thus saith the Lord.

[Seek the Truth]

It might be well to remeber that the church, in the time of Christ was much like our modern day church. Caiaphas had the same role as our prophet today. They had the priesthood. They had the same covenant with God as we do. I would consider Caiaphas to be a prophet. He certianly gave people the wrong advice.

Where did you get this? Joseph Smith taught plainly that John was the only legal administrator (priesthood holder) left in the land and the jews were to obey him. tpjs pg 276

When the people of the church heard of Jesus and saw Jesus perform miracles, many said but what do the "Pharisees think of him". Only those who had the spirit were able to know that Jesus was the true Messiah. Those who depended on the words of the prophet were led astray.

The pharisees were not Prophets, at all.

I have gained a testimony from the Holy Ghost that the GA's are prophets, seers, and revelators independent of any man.

The same sitaution ocurred in Lehi's day because Lehi came from outside the organization,

People keep saying this but I see no basis for it. Please tell my why you think this.

the members of the church would not recognize him as the true prophet.

Israel struggled and failed to follow almost all her prophets, nothing unique about Lehi.

The Lord's true church was upon the earth, with the leadership in Jerusalem, but to follow them was the wrong thing to do.

Where does it say this.

[Thomas]

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[TZONE]

Seek the truth, If you have a testimony, given by the spirit, then that is what is needed. What I have a problem with, is leaders will never go wrong and follow them over your own spiritual witness. That is what led so many members of God's true church astray, in the past. Leaders have always gone wrong, every time the church has been on the earth. I know many generations had righteous leaders, but in the end, they have always gone wrong.

That is what led so many members of God's true church astray???? I always thought it was due to them rejecting the prophets not from being led astray? Can you give me a prophet? I can think of Jonah who failed and got swallowed by the whail but in the end corrected himself, and others but led people astray?

I agree we should have the spirit to guide us but just curious on the last statement.

[Gad]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

[Thomas]

Seek the truth, If you have a testimony, given by the spirit, then that is what is needed. What I have a problem with, is leaders will never go wrong and follow them over your own spiritual witness. That is what led so many members of God's true church astray, in the past. Leaders have always gone wrong, every time the church has been on the earth. I know many generations had righteous leaders, but in the end, they have always gone wrong.

That is what led so many members of God's true church astray???? I always thought it was due to them rejecting the prophets not from being led astray? Can you give me a prophet? I can think of Jonah who failed and got swallowed by the whail but in the end corrected himself, and others but led people astray?

I agree we should have the spirit to guide us but just curious on the last statement.

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[Thomas]

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[TZONE]

Ok I see what you are saying. I agree . There are many "false prophets that will say lo here is Christ", "believe them not". Even in the church. Its a good thing we have the "majority" rule as Joseph put it follow the majority we will not be led astray. It was what? 6/6 apostles in his day fell way. Majority stayed.

[Seek the Truth]

Seek the truth, If you have a testimony, given by the spirit, then that is what is needed. What I have a problem with, is leaders will never go wrong and follow them over your own spiritual witness.

I don't know who says this exactly, but I have posted on a number of occasions, frankly a couple of dozen times now where Jesus Christ says very clearly that people in high places (OC) were led astray (Hiram Page) by false spirits and that there is only ever 1 person on the earth who can receive revelation for the whole Church. So I would say that if you have a testimony of the restored gospel then checking your impressions against Prophetic Teaching would be something to consider.

That is what led so many members of God's true church astray, in the past. Leaders have always gone wrong, every time the church has been on the earth. I know many generations had righteous leaders, but in the end, they have always gone wrong.

I have no idea what this is based on. For me, in the past the members have gone so wrong no new leadership can be obtained from among them, case study the book of Judges.

Rejecting Prophets and murmuring against them is condemned over and over and over and over again. Following them, can't really find anything. All we are warned is not to substitute their testimony for ours. Fair enough. Don't do that, whoever may read this.

You miss the point about Caiaphas. We know he was not a true prophet through hindsight. He was in fact the leader of God's true church, at the time, even if he had lost God's authority. Only those with spirit knew so at the time. The rest assumed he had God's authority because, he held the postion.

TBH, I think it would've been rather easy to discern at the time, reading through the OT Israel slipped into apostasy every couple of pages; a religious person of those times would assume you were in an apostate place from the get go. Caiaphas was not the leader of the Church at that time, John the Baptist was. He was the leader of something but not the true Church. Not according to Joseph Smith anyway.

But truly they would be no different than us, who each as individuals must obtain a witness of the truth, which I was taught in Church from when I was a child. I have done so to my satisfaction so far. We are no different than them, they no different than us. Any of them could have prayed as I did, or Joseph did (little bit different results though ). Any person, Mormon, Catholic, Muslim, Jew, atheist, must go to God and find the truth for themselves. I think we can all agree on this.

What I don't understand is if people are doing this and discovering that our Authorities are prophets, seers, and revelators, what is the problem with following them? Who wouldn't want to follow people sent to us from the Lord for these purposes?

I know of Bishops, who have commited adultry, child sex abuse and securties fraud. Do you think they still held the priesthood?

Don't we all. The answer to this is rather long, perhaps another time. The overriding issue though is would any of this effect whether Priesthood itself was necessary for our salvation. The answer is, it doesn't.

Why do think the church in Jerusalem was not God's church? They were his covenant people. Even the Catholic Church has it's orgins as the true church. How can you tell if the true church goes into apostasy? The true church has went into apostasy every time it has been on the earth. Why do you think we are not vulnerable to the same thing.

God has promised not to take the church off the earth, but he hasn't promised to let us keep it.

I don't even know what this means. See my sig.

[Seek the Truth]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

But if you don't receive Christ you aren't following the Prophets very well. If at all.

[InfoWarrior82]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

We need to base our testimony on both but in different ways. Christ as the head, Thomas Monson as His prophet. There are plenty of "Christians" out there who have a testimony in Christ, but do not follow the prophet, so are tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.

[Seek the Truth]

It is because they assumed those who held the position were the true prophets. I said leaders, not prophets. We have the advantage of hindsight to let us know many leaders of the church were not true prophets. Sometimes the true prophets came from outside the church because those who held the position within the church had gone astray. Lehi, John the Baptist, Christ and Joesph Smith are some examples.

The people you mention are not examples of this. There is no record of Lehi's relationship with the Priesthood body, if you have some please put it in. It never occurred to me before I came to this website that he was anything other than a PSR like the 15 we have today, duly called and ordained. John the Baptist was the true church by himself according to Joseph Smith, and was the forerunner to Jesus Christ, according to JS. JS has a great deal to say about John, legal administrators and so forth in the TPJS index. God told Joseph Smith there was no true Church and then restored it through him. These are not examples.

That is what so many are preaching today, that if we follow the person, who holds the position, then we can't go wrong.

I really don't understand the preoccupation with this. I don't really see anyone saying it like this. Following the prophet means paying heed to their teachings, commandments, instructions and respecting their office in terms of policy and so forth. The time may come soon where they will instruct us to safe places and I would recommend following them at that time.

[InfoWarrior82]

Where did Lehi, John the Baptist, Joseph Smith go astray?

[katmr]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

+1. Thanks Gad.

[Gad]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

+1. Thanks Gad.

You are welcome. Although evidently, my attempts to focus people on Christ are worthy of fault according to some.

[skmo]

But yes, you're right that many times prophets will speak their own opinions in talks. I guess the general rule of thumb is when a prophet says something along the lines of: Thus saith the Lord.

When that happens, I do my best Pvt. Joker "war face" and scream at the top of my lungs: "Yes, drill sergeant!" and I don't question any further. I will still pray for confirmation, but when a prophet says he is acting for God, I follow.

paraphrased

Methinks I could not die any where so contented as in the prophet's company, his cause being just and his quarrel honourable. If his cause be wrong, our obedience to the prophet wipes the crime of it out of us. But if the cause be not good, the prophet himself hath a heavy reckoning to make; when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off....

[Jarbar]

I come back to my first point... Nowhere in the scriptures does it say "follow the prophet"

[Thomas]

=p~

[Rose Garden]

Following, sustaining, submitting, and so forth do not mean blindly obeying. If there is a discrepancy between what we believe and what a church leader has taught, that is an invitation for us to seek understanding from the Lord. But we are in no way obligated to believe or follow the church leader unless we obtain our own witness that what they say is true. This goes for our personal decisions and lives.

On the other hand, I would say that within the church context, we ought to follow our leaders, right or wrong, unless they are actually asking us to sin. President Monson is in charge of the church, so when it comes to church policy, we ought to be following his direction. So if he wants the sacrament to be served on brass not stainless steel, we ought to be doing it. Or discussing it with President Monson if we have a different opinion. In that case, it is not about right or wrong but about respecting the right of the leader to lead (and to make mistakes in their leadership as well).

Finally, church leaders can be a second witness to our personal revelation. This, I believe, is the true nature of their roles as spiritual leaders. So if we have received something from the Lord but are unsure that it truly came from the Lord, the Lord can inspire our leaders to say something that will confirm what we believe. We can know it is a second witness because we will feel the Spirit again as they speak.

[InfoWarrior82]

I come back to my first point... Nowhere in the scriptures does it say "follow the prophet"

It may not say the exact wording: "Follow the prophet". But let me ask you this. How do you expect to enter into the temple to receive your endowments required for your eternal salvation when one cannot answer in the affirmative: Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

[Seek the Truth]

Seek the truth, I apoligize if I have misunderstood your postion. Many have stated that, if a person holds the postion that Joesph Smith held, in the church he started, that person cannot lead us astray.

I'm not sure I've ever heard about that. If one was an authorized President of the Church with a testimony of Jesus you are the real deal, full stop as far as we're concerned. Can this person "lead us astray"? Probably not. Anyone not authorized is another story.

Are people suggesting Thomas Monson is not a Prophet? If so, what are they doing in the LDS Church?

Caiaphas held Moses's postion, in the church Moses started. He was counted on by the people to give them the word of God. He and his fellow high Priests were considered to be the ultimate authority as to the meaning of scripture and interpetation of God's laws. They were much like our general authories, today. They had inherited a postion that at one time was, the postion authorized, by God, to do what they did.

Our positions are not inherited, but based on prophetic callings and laying on of hands.

You say it would be easy to dectect they were apostate. I disagree. We would most likely consider them to be righteous. They followed the ordainces and laws that Moses had given them. They considered themselves to be righteous because of their obedience. They had a temple and the priesthood. They may have been more righteous than many of today's members. They took their law quite serious and were certainly more righteous than most Americans today. The reason they were unrighteous was because they thought their law and religous observence saved them. They were missing out on the connection to the Messiah and the Holy Spirit, that was necessary for their salvation.

I don't know that we know much of this one way or the other.

As for Lehi, the people of his time were much the same. Although we don't have as much info on them, we know they considered themselves to be righteous. We can assume they had a leadership, priesthood, temple etc. laban held the records and was most likley a leader. We know that when Lehi warned them, they would not listen because they obeyed the Law of Moses. I would assume they had leaders who directed them much the same as the Pharisees did, in the time of Jesus.

The point is at one time they were the church authorized by God. Their leaders were authorized by God. It is hard to pinpoint exact;y when they went astray, but apsotasy is not a black and white issue. It is more shades of gray.

So how can we tell if the one who inheirits Joesph Smith's postion is in apostasy or not.

I've prayed about it and am satisfied with the answer. I've heard others testify similarly. I'm not sure why one wouldn't pray about it and find out for themselves.

Many of the members today are much like the Pharisees, thinking they can be saved by obeying laws. Picking and choosing which laws to obey and not making the connection to the powers of heaven that can save. I don't think we can just rely on the postion. History tells us, we can't rely on it.

As I have said before, I have no concept of where this comes from. My experience in the Church must be very different. I see people doing their best to do what has to be done to gain their reward (grace/obedience, whatever floats your boat, or put in the wording you prefer), some lukewarm folks, people going in and out of being lukewarm, and people that will fall away.

Among all of these, the issue of following the prophet incorrectly really doesn't seem to come up. But I don't live in Utah. Either way, in my life, I've never seen someone who I thought was getting into trouble on the issue.

[davedan]

WE are to live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God. (D&C84:44; 98;11)

WE receive the word of the Lord through the Prophet. (D&C 5:10)

Therefore we should "Follow the Prophet" as he speaks the word of the Lord.

[kgrigio]

At the end of the day we need to base our testimony on Christ and on no one else. Followers of even true prophets will march right into the Telestial kingdom if they do not receive Christ.

Isn't it interesting that the only way we can know and understand Christ and his teachings is because prophets of old wrote down his teachings? It is from those teachings that we then develop a personal relationship with Christ, but it is very few in this world who have never known of Christ and had a vision that taught them of Christ. Even Joseph Smith read and studied the prophets of old to learn of Christ and ask his questions. Why is it some can only accept the prophets of old and not the prophets today?

[Thomas]

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[Seek the Truth]

Ok. They were also foreordained as I recall.