Thanks for everything LDS Freedom forum

[Zkulptor]

Hi all,
I just want to thank Brian, and everyone else that has been extremely welcoming, nice and kind to me.
I came into this forum searching for truth and I found it, and learned a ton. I learned from the good and the bad.
I have been feeling that the atmosphere here has changed to a more negative and contentious one ( with me and my harsh comments included, and maybe it is just me) , I just don't feel welcome, and I am not pointing fingers, but I feel like I really don't be long here at all.

I just feel the forum is shifting into something I just I personally don't feel comfortable with, I think from now on it's lds.org for me, I need to hear more uplifting words, and less backbiting of the leadership, the very people that I admire and hope to one day be like, and eventually surpass that stage and become ( hopefully with a lot of work) more Christ like...
I m aware the leadership are humans that make mistakes, but for the most part good people chosen by our God, people that try to be good...
I remember one day I called a person that I had befriended while he served as a mission president in Mexico city...he is now one of the 70 and I guess his wife was having a bad day, and she kinda chewed me out for asking for info in regards to a scholarship ( her husband had asked me to call him, and that he would help me, but then told me he couldn't help me anymore due to some issue that arose... but I thought I would ask him for a second time if he knew anyone that could help an artist get into the Y... in retrospective I shouldn't have called for a second time... this time his wife answered and probably thought I was probably going behind her husband's back... and she didn't even let me finish with my introduction.. as soon as she heard my name she blew up..."we are no longer helping students, my husband said he cannot help you, why are you going behind his back calling me"... and I apologized and she hung up ) ... I really needed the help, my father had passed away, and I was my mother's only hope for a better future.... I am sure she had her reasons for being so stressed out about me asking for more info on scholarships...to this day I don't hold a grudge, if anything that experience taught me they are just human.... so I get it when people like Col. or anyone else say these people make mistakes, I am sure they make a ton.. but they have been called of God and Christ himself has warned us not to point fingers at them.... like President Hinckley once said to us missionaries... "you may not be much to look at but you are all the Lord's got" I believe the Lord knows of their shortcomings, but he also knows of their potential.


This is not me trying to create any drama or anything, but I have found that the more I read certain negative comments made towards the leadership, and the prophet the less I feel the spirit when I am here...this is not to say that I feel like that with every topic I read, or that Brian or any of the mods are culpable of any of this... this is just how I feel, and that is that.
I know I am not perfect, I am just a guy, but I am trying hard to come closer to Christ, and it's hard for me, reading negative stuff is not helping me much, it really hurts for me to read harsh remarks aimed at the brethren.... I don't even know most of them in person, yet I feel a certain kinship towards them... it's like when I hear Elder Scott speak to us in Spanish in his own voice during conference, I love that man... he is like a father to me... I know he is a good person... and I know it is not a product of a wild fanatical faith... I truly feel a sweet spirit when I hear him speak...and he is one of the few I've met in person, a very kind person.... I know he is a prophet of God, a true Apostle of Christ... it just hurts when I hear people implying they are siding with the Devil basically...

Ahhhhh..... It is time for me to take a break from lds freedom forum for a while.
I just want to apologize to Col. Flagg and anyone I have hurt with my rude contentious comments... there's no excuse for my attitude, please forgive me, and please whenever you see one of those Lamanites/immigrants , ( heck I don't even know I am a Lamanite anymore as I have learned form this forum I may not even be that at all, maybe a distant cousin of the real deal) in your wards, please be kind to them, they are good people, they are all not evil, con men, or drug dealers... many of them are just trying to get closer to God ( most of them). Please open up your hearts and arms to them and in return you will see many truths that are veiled from you now....
Thank you all for you kind PM's your kind emails, and thoughts, may God bless you all in the search of the truth, and may Zion come soon!

Thank you!
-Erick
P.S. If you ever want to email me, please do so at: [email protected]

[Original_Intent]

I have felt much the same. During the latest drama that I caused, it got a lot more personal and others gor involved that I regret the whole incident. And even though I didn;t see it at the time, I definitely crossed the line a few times. I probably crossed it again in the last couple of days calling a fellow forum member on the carpet for his comments. But like you, I have begun to feel that LDSFF isn't a great fit for me. I don;t really mind when people make statements about the brethren as long as I am free to defend them as I see fit. But I guess I just get the feeling that I am not being helped by most of the comments, nor am I helping anyone else with mine.

I relate to what you are saying, and hopefully some time away will help. I think it is important that we stand up for what we believe is right, while also remaining humble enough to be willing to change and seek the spirit to show us when we are wrong.

I feel that major major things are underway and I definitely have felt a sense of urgency in recent weeks. I don't fast very often outside of fast Sunday, but I am fasting today because I was told to. I don't even know why, I prefer to "fast with a purpose", but I am still waiting to find out why. I have a feeling this may even become a multi-day fast which I have only done a few times in my life. So I guess that is one reason that I still love it here - I don't agree with anyone 100%, but I do see that sense of urgency in others, and I have developed a strong kinship with a few who seem to be experiencing similar parts of the path as me right now. (tmac, AGStacker, lundbaek, freedomfighter). There are others who I feel are well advanced of me, and others who are having some struggles with some of the basics (in my unrighteous judgement).

Come back soon. There IS fellowship here, I am so happy that I have become better firends with some who at one time I didn't get along with at all. I still disagree witht hem on a lot, but I sense the sincerity, love and concern in their posts.

Anyway, bless you for your contributions here, hope to see you back here when and if the time is right.

[skmo]

I have to agree with OI. I understand, though, as I know how it is difficult at times to separate yourself from negativity. We all have different triggers and different coping skills. I would hope that you will come back occasionally to check on how us heathens are doing. I have learned a lot from my time here as well. I am generally able to take the good, let the bad roll off without it affecting me, and using both to learn how to behave properly. I would hope you can do this on occasion to some extent.

I've been on here since 2009, I've had some fairly contentious words with Aussie, with Cowell earlier, and even a few with Flagg. Most recently I've been a bit brusque with the polygamy dude with the raven, don't remember his name. However, I have to say I've gotten something positive from just about everyone. My ability to understand different points of view has increased, and my respect for those who express themselves well has helped me to be better with my own words.

Even so, I can understand if you need to take a break from some of this. When I was in a different village up here in Alaska, child molestation was a very common occurance. I did what I could to bring it to the attention of the authorities and to educate and change things, but I was unable to separate my own pain from the pain I saw in the faces of the children I could tell were being victimized. It was killing me, and when I found myself chasing a man with intent to kill him, I realized it was time for me to leave. I had rock solid tenure in a very easy job that was paying me $68,000 a year. My wife made only a few thousand less at the same school because she hasn't taught as long as I have, so together we were making over $120K a year and our housing and utilities were provided for free. Nevetheless, I had to leave and take a break, my job prospects since have sucked horribly and I'm still sucking wind trying to make ends meet. However, I needed the break.

Take your break, but maybe consider not abandoning us altogether. We're not all terrible. Only partially. Let your ligiht shine in here occasionally, and see if there is a truth nugget or two you can occasionally glean.

[AussieOi]

Good luck zkuptur.

my gUess is the entire internet isbprobably worth a miss too

and public libraries maybe
when your shelf falls off a wall, so to speak, there will always be the marginalised here, ready to help you understand more.

oh, and FWIW, that woman was just a nasty piece of work if you ask me.

[mgsbigdog]

Thanks aussie

I'm sure your words helped to comfort this individual who has decided contention and snide comments do not help him feel the spirit. I hope your Christ-like words will help him feel the love here at ldsff. Just as in mosiah, belittle those that mourn, scorn those who stand in need of comfort.

[buffalo_girl]

and when I found myself chasing a man with intent to kill him, I realized it was time for me to leave

Given what he was guilty of, I'm not sure that was a negative response.

zkuptur,
Did you find a way to get the schooling you wanted? I hope you will not stop working on your art regardless of formal training.

[marc]

I've stopped posting for the most part, too, but I still love this place. We're all human and just trying to find peace, fit in, learn, grow, etc. So I mostly lurk and moderate as needed (not usually necessary). We disagree, argue, etc, but it's too important to me to find common ground, learn and learn from you all so I keep coming back. There's still too much to learn not to. I've seen a lot of folks come and go. Hope to see you back soon.

[itsmerich]

Great post by the OP.

I agree about the change of tone. Certain members here are a bit contentious and frankly curt and rude in their replies.

It's especially disheartening to know that those on the other end of the computer are "fellow saints". The lack of them showing respect and being an example to saints and other visitors on this forum is embarrassing.

The back biting and talking ill of church leaders is in direct violation of convents made. Let's not forget Peter, the chief apostle, denied Christ 3 times, drew a sword, mingled with prominent jews instead of the poor. He was the top guy, yet he failed pretty big many times. Moses killed a man, lacked faith with the stone and water, Judas was a traitor in the saviors midst (the other apostles didn't know), Lehi murmured and doubted, Jonah fled, One prophet summoned bears to tear up some kids, David killed a man, Angels came down and had relations with the daughters of God, Joseph Smith was under watch during his early years regarding the possibility of him selling the plates for gain, and so on. Men are fallible - and yes, when our leaders fall short it hurts - we expect so much from them. They've been ordained to be leaders - we support and sustain them until removed.

Ever since Cain, they're have been detractors, doubters, and deceivers. It will never change. Even towards the end of the 1000 years resurrected beings will begin to doubt. Members on the forum are engaging in ever intensive contentions with one another - say your piece and move on. Let the just,stay just and the unjust remain unjust. So much time and energy is spent beating up other saints instead of contending with the Church of the Devil (i.e. illuminati, luciferians, etc).

For those who are faithful, stand fast - don't engage in railings - everyone will have a place in the end according to their faith and works.

[Shebby]

I am brand new to this forum...not even 7 days....thanks for the heads up about the ill-speaking about our church leaders. If I wanted to be surround with that element, I would just ask my questions of the LDS left themselves out in the world of New Order Mos.

[Thomas]

Great post by the OP.

I agree about the change of tone. Certain members here are a bit contentious and frankly curt and rude in their replies.

It's especially disheartening to know that those on the other end of the computer are "fellow saints". The lack of them showing respect and being an example to saints and other visitors on this forum is embarrassing.

The back biting and talking ill of church leaders is in direct violation of convents made. Let's not forget Peter, the chief apostle, denied Christ 3 times, drew a sword, mingled with prominent jews instead of the poor. He was the top guy, yet he failed pretty big many times. Moses killed a man, lacked faith with the stone and water, Judas was a traitor in the saviors midst (the other apostles didn't know), Lehi murmured and doubted, Jonah fled, One prophet summoned bears to tear up some kids, David killed a man, Angels came down and had relations with the daughters of God, Joseph Smith was under watch during his early years regarding the possibility of him selling the plates for gain, and so on. Men are fallible - and yes, when our leaders fall short it hurts - we expect so much from them. They've been ordained to be leaders - we support and sustain them until removed.

Ever since Cain, they're have been detractors, doubters, and deceivers. It will never change. Even towards the end of the 1000 years resurrected beings will begin to doubt. Members on the forum are engaging in ever intensive contentions with one another - say your piece and move on. Let the just,stay just and the unjust remain unjust. So much time and energy is spent beating up other saints instead of contending with the Church of the Devil (i.e. illuminati, luciferians, etc).

For those who are faithful, stand fast - don't engage in railings - everyone will have a place in the end according to their faith and works.

Just who is faithful and who is not? There is too much judgement going on.

Everyone who has been to the temple has made a covenant to keep every commandment, to perfection. Has anyone reading this done so? I will guarantee, not a single person has.

James 2:10 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

We are all under damnation!!!

Everyone of us. Pride is the universal sin. We all sin every day. Who would point a finger at another and say, we have kept our covenants and you have not. Christ taught this lesson when he said: He who is without sin cast the first stone. None of us are on higher ground. No one will attain salvaltion by keeping the commandments. That is why we need a Savior. There is no grading on curve. It is all or nothing. Keep every commandment, to perfection or be guilty of all!! That is what Christ said.

Why try to compare your righteousness to anothers?

I sorry that Zkulptor feels like he needs to leave but it seems some can't have an intelligent conversation without, declaring others are sinning by asking questions. Saying they don't agree with something. Why can't someone say this without being told they are damned or they should leave the church? If we understood, we are all damned, we might be a little less judgemental.

[AGStacker]

I am brand new to this forum...not even 7 days....thanks for the heads up about the ill-speaking about our church leaders. If I wanted to be surround with that element, I would just ask my questions of the LDS left themselves out in the world of New Order Mos.

I don't think there is much ill-speaking, if any, against the leaders. It is mainly doctrinal issues or questions regarding the difference between presidents of the Church and prophets, seers and revelators.

Just a reminder, the Jews were the promised people who lived in the promise land and had a temple and the priesthood. We Mormons aren't invulnerable from history.

[drjme]

Zkulptor you seem like a good guy.

We have the right to question, we have the right to answers. and when peoples questions aren't answered but seemingly held in contempt, and then the questioners is belittled and derided, it just adds fuel to the fire.
I'm on the opposite side of the world to where the church was founded. I have no cultural ties. I have no tradition to be proud of. hymns about trekking across the midwest, SLC, tradition, they mean nothing to me. I just want to find where Christ is in all of this.

Last week I gave $1200 in tithes ( I'm not saying this to boast or anything like that, believe me, and it was a big ask ). Do I want to know that that money is going to be used in a meaningful way and help exactly where it is needed? can I hope that it isn't going to be invested in funds to gain interest to invest in a business venture? I'm on the otherside of the world, I could give that money in tithes to a local evangelical church, guaranteed that feeds homeless people every wednesday, that cares for the needy, and clothes the poor. that the spoils of my tithes (thats what the interest is) could be used for something so pointless as the mall, and so far away, that will never benefit anyone other than a select few of a higher class, does that not give me the right to question? or should I just shut up and accept that the spoils of my tithes are being used on something so far from Christ, and just accept it.

when you lose the fear, the conditioning, when you are free of the culture, the traditions you don't see the questioning as attacking, you just see it as earnest questioning. And as an international church, we have the right to know whats going on, don't we? we are not blind followers because we don't have any of the above ties to stay in the church. We are just looking for Christ in it all. please understand this. God bless.

[AussieOi]

Thanks aussie

I'm sure your words helped to comfort this individual who has decided contention and snide comments do not help him feel the spirit. I hope your Christ-like words will help him feel the love here at ldsff. Just as in mosiah, belittle those that mourn, scorn those who stand in need of comfort.

Grow up maybe?
I mean get real.
This is an anonymous free for all called the internet and religion is the topic.
I specifically keep my "toxicity" to a few threads here only. There are thousands upon thousands to pore into.

and.I've been to those other sites.

if this site makes a person feel the spirit has gone, by all means try other sites. Are we meant to take it that because we don't feel the same way that He does we are full of the evil spirit of contention?
Am I permitted to have that as a takeout? Or was that the message?

and what, he never posted here either?

seriously. This place is a playground.

I would be highly surprised.if he doesn't join back in the next few months.

If people can't recognise this place.is an outlet.and therapy they need to go for a walk until the penny drops.

I hate to shock you but for a lot of people who do and don't post here we're all they've got.

I call this "the #27 I'm leaving (i: I don't feel the spirit here) thread"

[AussieOi]

Great post by the OP.

I agree about the change of tone. Certain members here are a bit contentious and frankly curt and rude in their replies.

It's especially disheartening to know that those on the other end of the computer are "fellow saints". The lack of them showing respect and being an example to saints and other visitors on this forum is embarrassing.

The back biting and talking ill of church leaders is in direct violation of convents made. Let's not forget Peter, the chief apostle, denied Christ 3 times, drew a sword, mingled with prominent jews instead of the poor. He was the top guy, yet he failed pretty big many times. Moses killed a man, lacked faith with the stone and water, Judas was a traitor in the saviors midst (the other apostles didn't know), Lehi murmured and doubted, Jonah fled, One prophet summoned bears to tear up some kids, David killed a man, Angels came down and had relations with the daughters of God, Joseph Smith was under watch during his early years regarding the possibility of him selling the plates for gain, and so on. Men are fallible - and yes, when our leaders fall short it hurts - we expect so much from them. They've been ordained to be leaders - we support and sustain them until removed.

Ever since Cain, they're have been detractors, doubters, and deceivers. It will never change. Even towards the end of the 1000 years resurrected beings will begin to doubt. Members on the forum are engaging in ever intensive contentions with one another - say your piece and move on. Let the just,stay just and the unjust remain unjust. So much time and energy is spent beating up other saints instead of contending with the Church of the Devil (i.e. illuminati, luciferians, etc).

For those who are faithful, stand fast - don't engage in railings - everyone will have a place in the end according to their faith and works.

quick comments

some.very good points in there

why do you say we have broken sacred temple covenants, thus indirectly stating That we have placed ourselves in Satan's power?

why did you speak evil of the lords anointed like that? That was in violation of covenents I assume
(?) You have undertaken. No?

Don't you know anyone who has gone through the temple is the lords anointed?

The lord is NOT a respector of persons. You do know that?

I think that sums up about 47 different threads.

[Nephi294]

Thanks aussie

I'm sure your words helped to comfort this individual who has decided contention and snide comments do not help him feel the spirit. I hope your Christ-like words will help him feel the love here at ldsff. Just as in mosiah, belittle those that mourn, scorn those who stand in need of comfort.

Grow up maybe?
I mean get real.
This is an anonymous free for all called the internet and religion is the topic.
I specifically keep my "toxicity" to a few threads here only. There are thousands upon thousands to pore into.

and.I've been to those other sites.

if this site makes a person feel the spirit has gone, by all means try other sites. Are we meant to take it that because we don't feel the same way that He does we are full of the evil spirit of contention?
Am I permitted to have that as a takeout? Or was that the message?

and what, he never posted here either?

seriously. This place is a playground.

I would be highly surprised.if he doesn't join back in the next few months.

If people can't recognise this place.is an outlet.and therapy they need to go for a walk until the penny drops.

I hate to shock you but for a lot of people who do and don't post here we're all they've got.

I call this "the #27 I'm leaving (i: I don't feel the spirit here) thread"

If this Church makes a person feel the spirit has gone, by all means try other Churches!

[sixth seal]

Thanks aussie

I'm sure your words helped to comfort this individual who has decided contention and snide comments do not help him feel the spirit. I hope your Christ-like words will help him feel the love here at ldsff. Just as in mosiah, belittle those that mourn, scorn those who stand in need of comfort.

Grow up maybe?
I mean get real.
This is an anonymous free for all called the internet and religion is the topic.
I specifically keep my "toxicity" to a few threads here only. There are thousands upon thousands to pore into.

and.I've been to those other sites.

if this site makes a person feel the spirit has gone, by all means try other sites. Are we meant to take it that because we don't feel the same way that He does we are full of the evil spirit of contention?
Am I permitted to have that as a takeout? Or was that the message?

and what, he never posted here either?

seriously. This place is a playground.

I would be highly surprised.if he doesn't join back in the next few months.

If people can't recognise this place.is an outlet.and therapy they need to go for a walk until the penny drops.

I hate to shock you but for a lot of people who do and don't post here we're all they've got.

I call this "the #27 I'm leaving (i: I don't feel the spirit here) thread"

If this Church makes a person feel the spirit has gone, by all means try other Churches!

:ymapplause: