Why I believe Denver Snuffer

[Simon]

I can understand everyone who feels that Denver Snuffer is wrong, I can even understand everyone that feels offended by his writings, and in a way I consider it as "a good thing" that some people feel that way because it at least prooves that people still care and make up their own thoughts. Without questioning things we won't seek for answers, and without seeking for understanding the Holy Ghost will not teach us.

Joseph Smith taught:

I never thought it was right to call up a man and try him because he erred in doctrine, it looks too much like methodism and not like Latter day Saintism. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be tramelled. It dont prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine

I couldn't agree more with him and invite us all to follow his council.



There are two reasons why I believe that what Denver Snuffer "teaches" is true

First

Because "most" of his "teachings" have been confirmed to me as true before I even knew of him... "Most" because the rest of his teachings has gone beyond what I was seeking for at that time.

The Lord helped me rekognize the Spirit in a certain way. It started when I was a young boy, I usually had a question that I prayed and pondered about quiet a lot. After a certain time I got a "feeling" about what the true answer was. Finally that feeling was confirmed to me through the scriptures. It is a great way to learn how to rekognize when the Spirit is talking to the soul. During the last years I came across so many people that claimed to have seen angels, that were called of God to teach our church to repent, and so forth, but I never got that feeling and confirmation about their teachings. It was different with Denver.

But not just that. Before he posted his last few posts I have just read about that exact same topics in the scriptures, and have received the same answers as he did. This pattern has always worked in my life.

Second

Simply the scriptures. The "iron rod", or "word of God" does not just consist of the prophets and the scriptures. Why? Because in the dream Lehi saw the "iron rod" leads definetly to the tree of life, without error or falsehood. But people can have the scriptures and still err, they can even have moderndayprophets and still err, but they cannot have these things AND be taught by the Holy Ghost and err. The "iron rod" consists of the scriptures, the prophets AND personal revelation. With such revelation we will understand the scriptures and how they truely relate to US TODAY. We can detect any truth or lie by challanging it with the scriptures.

We have become so focused on people that it distracts us from the really important message. It doesn't matter who Denver Snuffer is, at least not for our own salvation. People simply won't save us, not even the prophet. The only thing that really matters is their message, and if that messages awakens us in such a way that it leads us to Christ, the only gate to find entrance.

Discussing wether he is a propeht or not is unimportant... But it is important what he teaches and if there is any truth in it.

As for me, I don't invite people to follow Denver, but I invite them to follow the saviour. I know without any doubt that what Denver teaches will lead, anyone who will, closer to Christ. Why ? Because you will hardly find anyone that brings you closer to the scriptures than he does. If you read his books, beginning with "The Second Comforter", you will see that all he writes is not about him, it's about something far more important.

We don't have to be "Denvers" or "Snuffers".. We can and should have our own opinion and most of all our own relationchip to the saviour. I can testify that this is what his writings have done to me. I love the saviour more deeply, I take the scriptures more serious and I look at myselfe more honest than before I came across "his" teachings.

What better outcome can there be ?

[samizdat]

Even if the message is right, it needs to come through the proper authority and the popular channels.

I would need to know what calling Denver Snuffer has, for one thing. Even if he were a stake president, he would be able to receive revelation for his stake only, albeit many could be inspired by his writings.

He has good stuff to be sure, but at the same time I would prefer these revelations to be received by a GA first...

I have stake conference this week in Mexico, a regional conference. It should be interesting.

[TZONE]

Even if the message is right, it needs to come through the proper authority and the popular channels.

I would need to know what calling Denver Snuffer has, for one thing. Even if he were a stake president, he would be able to receive revelation for his stake only, albeit many could be inspired by his writings.

He has good stuff to be sure, but at the same time I would prefer these revelations to be received by a GA first...

I have stake conference this week in Mexico, a regional conference. It should be interesting.

Those who DO believe what he teaches believe they have already been revealed through Joseph Smith, the book or momon, the proper channels. Therefore he is not teaching anything new but expounding the scriptures already given. Thus just like any OTHER author of books who write marvelous things. All they do is expound on the scriptures. Occasionally adding in their own opinions.

The issue is not believing everything but finding out what is Consistent with what has been revealed. If you don't believe its consistent than follow the HG to see if it tells you not to believe it.

Simon wrote: But not just that. Before he posted his last few posts I have just read about that exact same topics in the scriptures, and have received the same answers as he did. This pattern has always worked in my life.

I have recently noticed this in my life. EVERY TIME I listen to general conference I find they focused on exactly what I had felt like doing the two weeks before. The feeling was so subtle I had no idea it was even the spirit giving me those impressions. I thought it was my own thoughts partially until I listened to conference and credit was than given where it was due.

I usually don't immediately notice the HG except those few times it tells me more than once and nags at me multiple times. In those cases it will take me a day or occasionally weeks to follow through. Those are usually things important for me to do but out of my comfort zone.

One I just finally got myself to do last night, share my testimony with a person I grew up with, and I felt like I needed to for like 3 weeks and finally got myself to do it through social media. Boy my soul is finally at rest. "Peace" has now been spoken. The same peace I had when I first read about Denvers expoudning of the endowment. All which I learned as a missionary just never connected it to scriptures as he did.

[Thomas]

The twelve have the keys to presiding over the church. They do not have a monpoly on the word of God.

D&C 49: 8 Wherefore, I will that all men shall repent, for all are under sin, except those which I have reserved unto myself, holy men that ye know not of.

There are others we not of.

Alma 29:8 For behold, the Lord doth grant unto all nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true.

Pres Hunter.

God is using not only his covenant people, but other peoples as well to consummate a work, stupendous, magnificent, and altogether too arduous for this handful of Saints to accom-plish by and of themselves...All down the ages men bearing the Holy Priesthood
patriarchs, prophets, apostles andothers, have officiated in the name of the Lord, doing the things that he required of them; andoutside the pale of their activities other good and great men,not bearing the Priesthood,but possessing profundity of thought, great wisdom, and a desire to uplift their fellows,have been sent by the Almighty into many nations,to give them, not the fullness of the gospel, but that por-tion of truth that they were able to receive and wisely Ensign, November 1991, pp. 18-19)

2 Nephi 29: 10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

So we know Christ commands men, all over the world and upon the isles of the sea, to write the words he commands them to write, not just those in Salt Lake City. We will be judged out of those books. If we reject them we are missing vital info.

[Simon]

Even if the message is right, it needs to come through the proper authority and the popular channels.

I would need to know what calling Denver Snuffer has, for one thing. Even if he were a stake president, he would be able to receive revelation for his stake only, albeit many could be inspired by his writings.

He has good stuff to be sure, but at the same time I would prefer these revelations to be received by a GA first...

I have stake conference this week in Mexico, a regional conference. It should be interesting.

Yes you are very right, the lord will always use the proper channel to teach his children on earth... And witout any doubt the great leaders we have in church are one of the channels the Lord uses. I have a strong testimony of that. Nevertheless, the lord has also made clear that there are other "proper channels" which he will use in these last days..

1 Corint. 1:27

But God hath chosen the FOOLISH THINGS of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the WEAK things of the world to confound the things which are mighty

"Foolish and weak" to me means the "unnotices, small, unpopular mayby even totally unexpected"... And the great thing is that God has ALWAYS sent teachers among ALL NATIONS of the earth

Alma 29:8

For behold, the Lord doth agrant unto ALL nations, of their own nation and tongue, to teach his word, yea, in wisdom, all that he seeth fit that they should have; therefore we see that the Lord doth counsel in wisdom, according to that which is just and true

There have been Godsent messangers amongst all nations and people on the earth, according to the wisdom of God. They have not all had priesthoodauthority and they have not all had a calling or been a general authority.. And this is amazing to think about. It doesn't make our leaders "smaller", but is makes God great.

As I said, it really isn't about Denver as a person, or about his calling in church, it simply is about his message, and there are many faithfull members that have come closer to the scriptures, the church, and most of all the Saviour by his writings. It is open to everyone to take it or leave it, but I can confirm from own experience that his messages come from the Lord.

[Simon]

Simon wrote: But not just that. Before he posted his last few posts I have just read about that exact same topics in the scriptures, and have received the same answers as he did. This pattern has always worked in my life.

TZONE wrote:
I have recently noticed this in my life. EVERY TIME I listen to general conference I find they focused on exactly what I had felt like doing the two weeks before. The feeling was so subtle I had no idea it was even the spirit giving me those impressions. I thought it was my own thoughts partially until I listened to conference and credit was than given where it was due.quote]

Yes, I have experienced the same thing. First in my life with the scriptures that confirmed the feelings I had in my heart. It happened so often in church, on youthactivities, sacrementmeeting and generalconferences... It has been one of the reasons I never doubted the gospel and I am deeply gratefull for that. I love the gospel with all my heart and can never thank enough for what I have received and what I still receive through the church. Denver Snuffers writings have not taken any of that away, it has even done the excact opposite to me..

All I can say is that it is worth considering

[chemish]

He has good stuff to be sure, but at the same time I would prefer these revelations to be received by a GA first...

this is what i don't understand. Some saints worship General Authorities in a sense. If truth comes from an obscure source and the Holy Ghost testifies of this truth then it doesn't matter where it came from.

[Seek the Truth]

1 Behold, I say unto thee, Oliver, that it shall be given unto thee that thou shalt be heard by the church in all things whatsoever thou shalt teach them by the Comforter, concerning the revelations and commandments which I have given.

2 But, behold, verily, verily, I say unto thee, no one shall be appointed to receive commandments and revelations in this church excepting my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., for he receiveth them even as Moses.

3 And thou shalt be obedient unto the things which I shall give unto him, even as Aaron, to declare faithfully the commandments and the revelations, with power and authority unto the church.

4 And if thou art led at any time by the Comforter to speak or teach, or at all times by the way of commandment unto the church, thou mayest do it.

5 But thou shalt not write by way of commandment, but by wisdom;

6 And thou shalt not command him who is at thy head, and at the head of the church;

7 For I have given him the keys of the mysteries, and the revelations which are sealed, until I shall appoint unto them another in his stead.

Really these verses are rich with Doctrine and understanding. Keep in mind Brother Cowdery is being directly addressed by the Lord's own voice, meaning this is not a lowly levite deacon, this is someone who has indeed pierced the veil; in fact not even a year earlier he had been ministered unto by an angel, and yet still he had been deceived by Hiram Page (who in fairness was not a deceiver but was also deceived). A man visited by angels, deceived.

So he instructed that:

1) Only Joseph can receive commandments and revelations
2) He is to be obedient to the commands given through Joseph, as Aaron was to Moses (IIRC the language is Moses was a god to Aaron)
3) If he is teaching it is wisdom, not commandment even by the comforter
4) He shall not command Joseph
5) It shal be so until another is appointed in his stead

Slight rewording for grammar, feel free to use your own words, point being it could be helpful to identify various points.

Interestingly not even 6 months later the Lord had to repeat himself. Note verse 6, and remember even Oliver Cowdery had been deceived, as he would be again as well as Sidney Rigdon (in future times)

1 O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you.

2 For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

3 And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

4 But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

5 And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

6 And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

7 For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed.

8 And now, behold, I give unto you a commandment, that when ye are assembled together ye shall instruct and edify each other, that ye may know how to act and direct my church, how to act upon the points of my law and commandments, which I have given.

9 And thus ye shall become instructed in the law of my church, and be sanctified by that which ye have received, and ye shall bind yourselves to act in all holiness before me—

Now consider the following, 3 years later Joseph Smith had this to say:

I will inform you that it is contrary to the economy of God for any member of the Church, or any one, to receive instructions for those in authority, higher than themselves; therefore you will see the impropriety of giving heed to them; but if any person have a vision or a visitation from a heavenly messenger, it must be for his own benefit and instruction; for the fundamental principles, government, and doctrine of the Church are vested in the keys of the kingdom. tpjs pg 21

It seem like a confirmation of the earlier revelations, given 3 times.

So 3 times by the voice of the Lord and by the voice of the Prophet Joseph Smith a fairly clear picture is painted. Now, Joseph Smith taught that all may receive unlimited revelation for themselves, and may use revelation according to their office or calling, and there are many other statements on revelation, I only ask that we include these 3 in the discussion, because they are important.

[pjbrownie]

I just read Snuffer's book, the Second Comforter. Other than the creepy cover art and the provocative title, the text was plain and spoke nothing but what the prophets and scriptures teach. He's teaching us about how to have an Alma, Nephi experience because he has had one. He doesn't dwell on it, because he's more interested in getting us to "get there" than worrying about sensationalizing his story.

Great book!