18 to 24 Year Olds Forced Into Military Service

[freedomforall]

Oh, BTW, even the military has Mormon Chaplains, does anyone think they don't belong there either? I met a couple of them while in the Nam, and while serving on Okinawa for thirteen months. Isn't that strange? Even the bad, horrible, low life military, under a worse government...has chaplains. What a concept, isn't it?

[freedomforall]

Freedom Fighter, None of the stuff I have said at least was made personal. I never saw anyone call you stupid or judge you. It's not about you. It's about whether the war is a cause worth fighting for. Its about whether its a cause worth taking lives and lives being taken. Little children having their mother's and father's taken away from them. Parents losing sons and daughters. Life is valuable and if life is to be a price paid then it had better be for a righteous reason. Protecting liberties are righteous. But many wars are not really about that. Those good men and women are merely disposable pawns to the ones in charge and they don't care about the loss and sacrifice. With that in mind I absolutely don't want my children or my brother or ANYONE being forced to participate in a war where there are no winners. Only suffering. My brother may have escaped with his life. He may have bravely and valiantly protected the lives of his fellow soldiers against enemy threat...but for what? What did it really accomplish? If his life was taken what would it have accomplished other than his young wife and children being widowed? It would have accomplished NOTHING. It wouldn't have brought one more bit of freedom or liberty back to us and that is the absolute shame of it all. Life is not something to be made lightly of. The worth of every soul is great. Maybe I just see it differently because I know the sacrifice and work that it takes to bring a life INTO this world. It takes, blood, sweat, and tears. And it can be taken with the simple pull of a trigger in a split second. Taking life is much easier than giving life and giving love.

I do not disagree with you Ashley. I just want people to know that when faced with saving one's own life or someone elses, one has to become DOG-FACED mean...MEAN! You have to fight like your life depends on it, because no one else will put their life on the line for you in most cases. And if someone hasn't learned how to do this, it could end up being their last day on earth. It could have been different if they just would learn when it is time to quit being nice and be willing to kill. We, today, are faced with such a choice when it comes to maintaining freedom or being subdued and controlled by tyranny. Believe me, it won't be pretty. Many, many people will wish they'd fought instead of giving up easily. Is that what it means to be nice or to love? It's hard to be nice to someone bent on killing you.

[InfoWarrior82]

The only instance a draft would be morally acceptable would be when an invading army came to our soil.

The end of the Book of Mormon explains quite clearly that the Nephites went into the lands of their enemies not to protect their lands, family, freedom, but instead for glory and gain. This is when they started losing the war. This is precisely why Mormon resigned.

It's really this simple.

[freedomforall]

The only instance a draft would be morally acceptable would be when an invading army came to our soil.

The end of the Book of Mormon explains quite clearly that the Nephites went into the lands of their enemies not to protect their lands, family, freedom, but instead for glory and gain. This is when they started losing the war. This is precisely why Mormon resigned.

It's really this simple.

What will happen when the whole of society resigns. We have good and bad mixed together. Our own neighbor could end up being an enemy. People in the church will divide because of varying beliefs, knowledge and understanding of what freedom is and how important it is and where it came from. It will be individual choice in the battle ahead, no different than when we all were in heaven, those of us who chose God's way and became agency guided people. Ours is the choice between God or Mammon however it plays out.

[jonesde]

Look at it this way, if all the illegal aliens in this country were to be forced (drafted) to serve for this country, how many would run back to Mexico? or wherever they came from. I believe all illegals should have to serve if they want to be called Americans, they might even learn to appreciate what it takes to be one. But many, many of them could care less about America except for how many freebees they can get out of our government. Did you know our prisons contain about 25% of the already illegals in this country? Couldn't they have had better use of their time?

I'm sorry, but this is just not right. Enslaving people is not right just because you classify them in a certain way. You've skillfully managed to make a point that is both racist and classist at once.

The gospel is about helping other people, not enslaving them or pinning them down because of some arbitrary policy they have not complied with. Those who have actually harmed someone should be treated differently, preferable in a way that makes right the damage they caused (even that is a foreign concept in our current legal system).

Prisons contain 25% of "illegals"? Where did you get that stat? And what the heck is an "illegal" anyway? I am 100% sure that you have broken probably dozens of laws hundreds of times... so I guess YOU are also an "illegal". I've heard estimates of 10 million people in this country not complying with all of immigration law (many from Asia and Europe, though the highest percent but not the majority from Latin America)... and that would make around 2.5 million "illegals" in prison... hmmm... compare that to the total prison population in the USA and the number looks funny (which is a travesty in the first place... so many people in prison propping up more corruption at the expense of the lives of individuals and their families).

Sometimes I wonder which agenda is more wicked... the liberal one or the conservative...

[buffalo_girl]

No doubt we do and will need men of absolute integrity in every branch of public service to nudge history in a more righteous direction.

I am concerned, however, that our youth may not have the health or critical thinking abilities to rise above additional mental and health abuses imposed by our 'modern' branches of the military.

I have a close LDS friend whose children serve in the military - daughters, as well as sons. The youngest -an arrogant twit - works for the
c i a. Another teaches at the f b i academy & lives as though 'things are as they ever were'. She has grandchildren born while their mothers were serving in the military - one, my friend is quite certain, is micro-chipped; the other - normal at birth, is now autistic - from what my friend concludes was too many vaccinations at too early an age.

My friend says she would NOT recommend military service to ANYONE as things currently stand in our Nation.

I found this 40 minute documentary describing an attempt to manipulate WWI Veterans into overthrowing the government in 1933 in order to set up a fascist dictatorship. Major General Smedley Butler, USMC 'blew the whistle' on the Wall St. moguls who planned the overthrow. It's a great example of the same dialectic being created and foisted upon us in our own time.

Despite its poor quality, please do watch it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdx6vEUtIA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobhenstra]

I have friends and family in the military as we type here, they are good righteous active LDS friends! When all hell breaks lose, and it will, when our modern day Helaman's army is organized, and the "Boys from the Mountains" are being trained, it'll be Righteous LDS officers and NCO's who are trained in Americas military who will be placed in charge of "our" youthful warriors, and I would have it no other way!
It would seem there are those here who would tell Elder Robert Oaks, a 4 star General trained in the United States Air Force to "go to hell!"

Bob

[Original_Intent]

That's like saying "Moroni" you can go straight to hell, because I do not believe in the same cause you do. So you can just count me out and shove it."

Oh, come to think of it...there were men that said that...and Moroni saved someone else the time and had them killed.

Yeah, and for the umpteenth time the ONLY men that he forced to take up arms or die were those KINGMEN that were trying to overthrow the government from within. Don;t compare apples to oranges, these men were traitors and worthy of a death sentence already - he just gave them the option to fight for their country rather than being put to death for their treason.

I would not tell a righteous general or the government fighting for a jsut cause to shove it. But if they tried to draft me or my boys for the foreign adventurism that passes for foreign policy now, yes, I would tell them to shove it, you have my address, if that means the firing squad for me, so be it. I will NOT be forced to fight for injustice, shame on those of you who say that's EVER the right thing to do.

[freedomforall]

Look at it this way, if all the illegal aliens in this country were to be forced (drafted) to serve for this country, how many would run back to Mexico? or wherever they came from. I believe all illegals should have to serve if they want to be called Americans, they might even learn to appreciate what it takes to be one. But many, many of them could care less about America except for how many freebees they can get out of our government. Did you know our prisons contain about 25% of the already illegals in this country? Couldn't they have had better use of their time?

I'm sorry, but this is just not right. Enslaving people is not right just because you classify them in a certain way. You've skillfully managed to make a point that is both racist and classist at once.

The gospel is about helping other people, not enslaving them or pinning them down because of some arbitrary policy they have not complied with. Those who have actually harmed someone should be treated differently, preferable in a way that makes right the damage they caused (even that is a foreign concept in our current legal system).

Prisons contain 25% of "illegals"? Where did you get that stat? And what the heck is an "illegal" anyway? I am 100% sure that you have broken probably dozens of laws hundreds of times... so I guess YOU are also an "illegal". I've heard estimates of 10 million people in this country not complying with all of immigration law (many from Asia and Europe, though the highest percent but not the majority from Latin America)... and that would make around 2.5 million "illegals" in prison... hmmm... compare that to the total prison population in the USA and the number looks funny (which is a travesty in the first place... so many people in prison propping up more corruption at the expense of the lives of individuals and their families).

Sometimes I wonder which agenda is more wicked... the liberal one or the conservative...

If you don't want the true stats, don't read this. The big difference as to whether I'm an illegal immigrant is that you have to guess, and I absolutely know. And there's no sense arguing about it. You already have your mind made up. So it's more fun to have you left guessing, since you already so eloquently, inferred me as being one. Is this how you conduct worthwhile dialog? First, make an insult, then ask a question to be answered as though nothing happened. Really!

But since you asked here it is.

Illegal Immigration Facts

Let's review a few basics first. Immigrants have enhanced America. Immigrants and illegal aliens are neither inherently good nor inherently bad. Legal immigrants come to America with the explicit approval of Congress and thus all Americans. Illegal aliens come here with an implicit 'blind eye' approval. Thus, illegal immigration problems are due essentially to inaction of Congress, law enforcement, and ultimately American citizens. To fix our dysfunctional immigration system, Americans need to educate and change legal, political, educational, environmental, labor and religious institutions.

As part of our education it will help to know some facts: See: http://www.citizensforlaws.org/index.ph ... Itemid=101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 1986, Congress granted amnesty to 3.1 million illegal aliens.

In 1990, Congress increased legal immigration by 40%, and granted amnesty to the illegal relatives of aliens who benefited from the previous amnesty.

10-20 million illegal aliens presently roam the U.S. The number of illegal aliens doubled in the 1990's.

Each year more than 1.3 million legal and illegal aliens settle permanently in the U.S.

For every 100 illegal aliens who find jobs in the U.S., 65 American workers are displaced.

Each year, more than 72,000 aliens are arrested for drug offenses in the U.S.

]Illegal aliens constitute over 25% of the federal prison population. Think about that for a moment. This means that a group which comprises less than 5% of the population is committing 25% percent of the crime.

In some areas of the country, up to 12 % of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens.

In Los Angeles alone, 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total approximately 1,200-1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to 2/3 of all fugitive felony warrants (approximately 17,000) are for illegal aliens.

In Lake County, Illinois 1/2 of the murderers and 21.5% of all criminals now in jail are illegal aliens, costing the county an annualized rate of $4,056, 945.

Approximately 400,000 illegal aliens who have committed crimes and have been given a deportation order are at large in the U.S. and their whereabouts unknown.

In fiscal year 1999, expenses for incarcerating illegal aliens in state & local jails in Pennsylvania alone cost taxpayers $13.3 million. It has been established that the nationwide costs to states and localities for housing illegal criminal aliens is about $2 billion per year.

A 2011 report on the fiscal burden of illegal immigration on United States taxpayers found the following:

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

Additionally, the estimated cost of illegal immigration to Indiana state and local governments is $608 million per year.

It is time to end the abuse of American generosity.

See: http://www.citizensforlaws.org/index.ph ... Itemid=101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[awar_e]

I have 3 points to make:

1) This tyrannical piece of legislation was first introduced by the same Rep. Charles Rangel about 4 years go to coincide with Obama's proposed civilian security force. Everyone needs to understand the origin and motive behind this legislation.

2) In regards the United States failure in Vietnam. The war was not lost because because of domestic opposition. The war was never fought to be won; it was a globalist war run by the CFR behind the scenes. It was initiated to deliver huge profits for special interests and bring the United states into great debt. That same debt triggered moves by France and others to demand gold in exchange for US Dollars holdings. In short this war facilitated the decoupling of the US Dollar from gold in International markets. The US was never the same after the financial restructuring of the early 1970s.

3) In terms of serving ones country; it is noble and required under the certain circumstances, unfortunately our situation fails to meet that criteria. The hard reality is that our Federal Government is under the control of international interests. We are literally under a foreign occupation. Surrendering a generation of sons and daughters to serve in endless wars for a foreign occupation is not a service rendered to the Constitutional Republic of the United Sates of America. In short, we have become a sort of vassal state supplying blood and treasure to our occupiers; this is what conquered kingdoms did for the Roman Empire. (the global government of their day).

Only when the American People recognize that we are under a foreign OCCUPATION -- with some domestic elements complicit-- can the awful nature of our situation be appreciated within a historical context.

Respectfully.

Glenn has a perspective which agrees with mine. I lived during WW2 which brought our nation together to be of one mind and one purpose during those years. I had to register for the draft in my senior year of High School for the Korean "conflict". It was the first UN sponsored event to demoralize the military and the nation as it was the most insanely run "war" the nation had ever experienced. I accepted the draft call at age 19 because the normal age they were taking was 22-23 and I saw that as more interference with life than I cared to give.
I spent my time in Alaska with a number who had been in Korea and I saw some of what came out of that era. Those men were disillusioned with the nation's actions in that war of attrition which showed no desire to be won.
Those who later entered Viet Nam had a new type of draft called a lottery which caused serious conflicts between the low and high number lottery winners. Those men came home with even more problems as the drugs, disillusionment about the lottery draft and the chemical attacks from our own govt created a mess which we have never recovered from.
Next came the all volunteer military which took a vast increase in pay to get them to enlist. Later the ploy for enlistment became the loss of jobs which took those without jobs to the recruiting stations.
The problem I have with an all volunteer military is that we no longer have the entire cross section of the nation represented. If families are not represented, they have no dog in the fight and care little about what is happening to others who are in the service.
In my term, 1954-56, I saw 3rd grade dropouts along side of PHD's crawling through the same infantry basic training. This gave me a feeling of equality as I saw no special treatment for those who held higher stations in civilian life. We also could not feel superior to the school dropouts as they were doing the same work assignments. During my school days we were taught that the US had NO CASTE system of classes.
Today all we hear is middle, upper middle and upper class. It was a much nicer nation when we had no class distinction.

I knew when the draft regs were written a few years ago, that women would be in the next draft. I also thought that this might awaken a sleeping population regarding how evil our nation has become.
When we had a more sensible nation and military I supported a universal draft of MEN. What we are now engaged in is a serious disgrace in the eyes of the world.
I can not support the industrial military complex which Eisenhower so severely warned against in his farewell address.
Pogo said it best> "we have met the enemy and he is us".

[Istand4truth]

This is why I have no sympathy for people who refuse to stand for freedom, even if it means your own peace of mind, strength and the ability to stand tall.

Those who join or are drafted in the military these days will probably be asked to fire upon fellow Americans. They will also have to fight as UN and Nato troops for the New World Order. In fact, the wars of the past decade have been all about invading countries and taking out their leaders and putting in puppets who will support the New World Order. It's not about protecting our country or fighting for freedom.

In my opinion standing for freedom is fighting against a draft. I believe that those who joined the military after 911 were deceived. Just because young men and women think they are fighting for freedom doesn't make it the truth. It makes me mad that naive kids were fooled into thinking they were fighting for freedom. The real truth is that invading countries and stealing their resources is not fighting for freedom.

Somewhere there is a defense contractor or oil magnate that is more wealthy than any of us could ever imagine because of the wars of the last decade. Have they personally thanked you for your service? How are the veterans being thanked. They now have post traumatic stress syndrome and are threatened with being disarmed if they take their benefits from the VA.

The truth may be uncomfortable, but don't blame me for saying it. Save your anger for the powers that be that exploited your strength and youth for their financial gain.

[awar_e]

Wars are always fought by the young. Those who reach a later age are not so easily swayed to be slaves to the evils of those who create wars. I believe that we should have a lottery for all elected in govt to have their names in the pool to be drafted. For each year that the war lasts, an additional percentage could be inducted. This should have a serious damper on congressional willingness to commit troops.

[InfoWarrior82]

It makes me mad that naive kids were fooled into thinking they were fighting for freedom. The real truth is that invading countries and stealing their resources is not fighting for freedom.

Our boys in Afghanistan are guarding the poppy fields to make sure that the opium trafficking into the U.S. and elsewhere is alive and well.

Before 9/11 Afghanistan supplied around 10% of the world's opium. Now it's skyrocketed to around 90%.

[freedomforall]

This is why I have no sympathy for people who refuse to stand for freedom, even if it means your own peace of mind, strength and the ability to stand tall.

Those who join or are drafted in the military these days will probably be asked to fire upon fellow Americans. They will also have to fight as UN and Nato troops for the New World Order. In fact, the wars of the past decade have been all about invading countries and taking out their leaders and putting in puppets who will support the New World Order. It's not about protecting our country or fighting for freedom.

In my opinion standing for freedom is fighting against a draft. I believe that those who joined the military after 911 were deceived. Just because young men and women think they are fighting for freedom doesn't make it the truth. It makes me mad that naive kids were fooled into thinking they were fighting for freedom. The real truth is that invading countries and stealing their resources is not fighting for freedom.

Somewhere there is a defense contractor or oil magnate that is more wealthy than any of us could ever imagine. They sure appreciate you "freedom fighters" though.

The truth may be uncomfortable, but don't blame me for saying it. Save your anger for the powers that be that exploited your strength and youth for their financial gain.

Let me be more specific. I know things are different with regard to government and military. I guess what I failed to make clear is that we as a nation are in turmoil, right? We have people for socialism, we have people for freedom and we have people that could care less if it don't bother them one way or another. My point is...we may have fewer people in the group who want freedom than any other group. Are we going to give up what freedom we have left or are we going to fight to the end? God gave us freedom through the writing of the constitution...the same constitution that Christ will be head of when he's here. Don't we have an obligation to keep it as long as we can? To befriend it as he instructed in scripture to do so? If people aren't willing to fight, then the battle is lost already. I for one, do not want to live out my last days in a camp. And like I said we have to become dog faced mean to accomplish it. We don't need a draft to find these people we only need those whose hearts are into freedom and liberty in what's left of America, here on this soil. That is motivation enough.
That's what I'm talking about. And it is my past that brought me to this conclusion.

[awar_e]

There is no substitute for years of experience and an awareness of current events. I too am glad for my time in the US Army and always considered myself to be much luckier than others. To this day I still answer a common question in the same manner.
When someone asks how I am, I reply, No one is shooting at me.

I do realize that may change at anytime.

[jonesde]

Wars are always fought by the young. Those who reach a later age are not so easily swayed to be slaves to the evils of those who create wars. I believe that we should have a lottery for all elected in govt to have their names in the pool to be drafted. For each year that the war lasts, an additional percentage could be inducted. This should have a serious damper on congressional willingness to commit troops.

Rather than putting pressure on the politicians, I'd rather see pressure taken from the people.

Make both the funding of "defense" and participating in it 100% voluntary. If the country is really being attacked people will gladly defend it, some at least. If we had the freedom to arm ourselves with whatever we can personally afford or group together with others to fund, then we could have the same toys the military has, but really in the hands of the people... there are plenty of people interested in this sort of thing, many of whom are interested for moral defensive purposes. Even those that don't want to get involved can help fund it or work on things used by those actively involved in defense (ie building or retrofitting equipment and arms). If there was a real threat, people would get involved. If there was not, the government would not be able to force or convince people to get involved.

Yes, I really do mean that basically we can't trust our government with this sort of military funding and equipment... they are even now proving that all they want to do with it is kill and steal, not protect and preserve.

Unfortunately even the militia, the closest thing in US history to this model, has been totally corrupted and turned into the National Guard... as if a state army is in any way similar to a voluntary civilian force.

[Fairminded]

freedomfighter.

Do you know how criminal organizations get you in too deep to get out? They start off small, with things that seem pretty innocuous and have great rewards. Then they ask for more dubious things, still with great rewards, but also with minor threats. Then they use your past deeds to blackmail you into doing worse and worse things, with evidence for all of it accumulating in their hands until you're facing serious punishment if you ever balk in the slightest.

"But I would never do anything wrong even if told to do so," you may tell yourself. "I'll be a voice of righteousness and reason to effect positive change from within."

Riiiight. Do you think the people who operate these unjust wars don't know how to wind Satan's spidersilk shackles? They're not going to toss you right into a situation where you have a gun and they tell you to point it at a fellow American and shoot them. No, they'll start off with simple tasks with noble goals. You'll be made to feel like you're in the right, a victim of the anarchy and extremism of mentally unstable people. Then you'll be in a situation that's too chaotic to make rational decisions, on one side of the line from people who are just as scared, angry, and confused as you, and you WILL harm innocent people at that time to protect yourself and those you've formed an attachment to in the service.

Don't put yourself in the power of these people in any way. Whether it be through debt, working for them, or joining their gang of enforcers, they'll end up owning you and using you for your own ends, and when the chips fall you'll face a choice of either destroying the innocent or destroying yourself.

And history has shown how people make that choice over and over again.

[freedomforall]

freedomfighter.

Do you know how criminal organizations get you in too deep to get out? They start off small, with things that seem pretty innocuous and have great rewards. Then they ask for more dubious things, still with great rewards, but also with minor threats. Then they use your past deeds to blackmail you into doing worse and worse things, with evidence for all of it accumulating in their hands until you're facing serious punishment if you ever balk in the slightest.

"But I would never do anything wrong even if told to do so," you may tell yourself. "I'll be a voice of righteousness and reason to effect positive change from within."

Riiiight. Do you think the people who operate these unjust wars don't know how to wind Satan's spidersilk shackles? They're not going to toss you right into a situation where you have a gun and they tell you to point it at a fellow American and shoot them. No, they'll start off with simple tasks with noble goals. You'll be made to feel like you're in the right, a victim of the anarchy and extremism of mentally unstable people. Then you'll be in a situation that's too chaotic to make rational decisions, on one side of the line from people who are just as scared, angry, and confused as you, and you WILL harm innocent people at that time to protect yourself and those you've formed an attachment to in the service.

Don't put yourself in the power of these people in any way. Whether it be through debt, working for them, or joining their gang of enforcers, they'll end up owning you and using you for your own ends, and when the chips fall you'll face a choice of either destroying the innocent or destroying yourself.

And history has shown how people make that choice over and over again.

I'm sorry. What did I say that brought this on? I was only attempting to point out that the day may come when we will have to make a choice. Either we fight for freedom against a tyrannical government, whatever method is required, or we turn tail and allow socialism to sweep over us without any resistance on our part. I see no correlation in what I said and what you espouse. Your points may have merit but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. I further don't think I said anything that warrants such a response.

Previous military training can aid people in that effort because experience goes a long way. There has to be a leader, and it's much better when somebody has some know-how in strategy and implementation of attacks that bring desired results. Otherwise you have chaos. Moroni knew strategy and all different ways to win at his disposal. That makes the difference of winning or losing. Just ask anyone with military, enemy engagement, experience.

Frankly, I hope we never see this country taken over by socialism in its fullest. I hope we don't see death and destruction. I hope government leaders will repent. I could be talking through my hat, and I hope so.

What do any of you think will happen, socialism will blanket our people and smother them into submission or will some people resist in hopes for freedom at some level?

I am reminded of the words of Mosiah Hancock:

[According to Brother Hancock, the Prophet Joseph Smith told him,] The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were. (Life Story of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, 19-20)

[bobhenstra]

There is no substitute for years of experience and an awareness of current events. I too am glad for my time in the US Army and always considered myself to be much luckier than others. To this day I still answer a common question in the same manner.
When someone asks how I am, I reply, No one is shooting at me.

I do realize that may change at anytime.

Elder Packer stated very clearly, "I'm sorry to say it will not get any better!" Which means, in case some here are confused, it won't get any better! So, our only choice is to be prepared!

Are we? I fully realize that the time will come when there's going to be a lot of shooting, But I also realize that I need to help my children prepare, and they are! So, I've decided I would rather be with my wife in the Spirit World welcoming new comers. But I'm making sure my children have swords!

[AshleyB]

I understand what your saying Freedom Fighter. We are all just looking at the same scene and agreeing about what we see in the scene but some are looking at it through different lenses and so they have different ideas about how to approach the scene. I know that things are going to go down south eventually and as time goes on I feel that our generation will live to see the prophecy's come to fruition. We've been discussing guns a lot in my family. I am an advocate for second amendment rights all the way. As long as there are evil people with guns then righteous people need to have them too. I agree that when it comes to protecting the life and liberty of your family sometimes that requires taking life. If someone came in my home threatening me and my children I would not hesitate to shoot them. I know I would do it, but at the same time I'm not going to go looking for trouble just so I can "practice" shooting enemy's. If it is the Lord's will and we are confident before Him we will be given the strength to do whatever is necessary. As Paul said,

" 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."


And then there's Ether chapter 12...

26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Lehi was weak and had never taken a life but the Lord gave him the strength he needed when he needed it.

Let's not forget that soldiers don't just survive on their own merits. Angels surround and help and many have been delivered by and through God's power.

Saying that just made me think of a dream I had that was very vivid around 6 months ago where I saw a war that had a bunch of people fighting in it. The only people I knew of for sure that were in it were the Russians and the US but there were other countries involved too. I saw my brother and a woman who was fighting in the battle being miraculously saved. It was so vivid and felt so real I woke up crying really hard. In the dream I first saw my brother with a platoon of other fellow Americans. I watched his entire platoon get taken down except for my brother. My brother got shot and took down a lot of guys before getting shot. But after he was shot and then the rest of his platoon got taken out he was all alone and he seemed to have ran out of ammo or something. One of the guys from the other platoon came walking towards him out of the woods... and I was standing there watching and I thought he was going to shoot my brother so I threw my arms around him and prayed to God that he would be saved. It was like I was there in spirit. No one saw me or knew I was there. After I did that the other guy didn't shoot him. I don't know what happened. It was like suddenly he couldn't see my brother anymore or something because he just lowered his gun and turned around and started walking the other way. My brother was pretty dumbfounded about it but grateful all the same. I remember praising God for this miraculous save. My brothers wound wasn't deadly so he was able to get up and run into the woods where he came upon some other people who were on our side. Then the scene switched to a woman who was on our side but alone for some reason. She was a soldier interestingly enough. The woman was wading through some muddy water about knee or waste deep when some enemies came in. There were three of them and she was surrounded and then one of the guys came up behind her in the water and I watched him put his gun right to the back of her head and pull the trigger. He pulled it twice and both times it just clicked and didn't do anything. A second after the second click some others from our side came in on the scene and shot the three enemies and she lived and I saw that it was through miraculous means. At the time of the dream I didn't even think about the significance of a woman soldier until now. The last part that I saw in the dream was that the high ups who had control over help being sent our way..they gave orders not to send help. They didn't care about them and those who were lower down in the ranks but were still superiors were trying to go against the higher ups and still help them. After that the dream ended.

[freedomforall]

I understand what your saying Freedom Fighter. We are all just looking at the same scene and agreeing about what we see in the scene but some are looking at it through different lenses and so they have different ideas about how to approach the scene. I know that things are going to go down south eventually and as time goes on I feel that our generation will live to see the prophecy's come to fruition. We've been discussing guns a lot in my family. I am an advocate for second amendment rights all the way. As long as there are evil people with guns then righteous people need to have them too. I agree that when it comes to protecting the life and liberty of your family sometimes that requires taking life. If someone came in my home threatening me and my children I would not hesitate to shoot them. I know I would do it, but at the same time I'm not going to go looking for trouble just so I can "practice" shooting enemy's. If it is the Lord's will and we are confident before Him we will be given the strength to do whatever is necessary. As Paul said,

" 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."


And then there's Ether chapter 12...

26 And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek, that they shall take no advantage of your weakness;

27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

Lehi was weak and had never taken a life but the Lord gave him the strength he needed when he needed it.

I think you have caught on to what I am saying. I agree with what you say. We do not want to look for trouble, but be able to handle it when necessary. I sense you are a very spiritual person and may God bless you and your family with protection and insight.

FF

[AshleyB]

Ooops... I didn't realize I already posted that first part before I went back and added my dream...oh well. Freedom Fighter, I feel you are a good man and a special spirit too. FWIW, I have appreciated your patience in this thread and for continuing to explain your position better without giving up.

[Bgood]

Doctor Zhivago Trailer 1965 the future of American


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAWrXTn5Www" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


This film,and the book that inspired it,was about human individuals' desire and ability to persevere and love beyond social issues and politics; it dealt with the individual heart's endurance in the face of socioeconomic turmoil which tore apart nation, families and friends and threatened the very existence of human love itself. It wasn't about taking sides or serving any man's army, it was about the struggle to still have love amidst chaos.

[freedomforall]

Ooops... I didn't realize I already posted that first part before I went back and added my dream...oh well. Freedom Fighter, I feel you are a good man and a special spirit too. FWIW, I have appreciated your patience in this thread and for continuing to explain your position better without giving up.

Thank you.

[Fairminded]

Sorry if I misjudged your posts, FF. I just saw a thread with posts from people who planned to refuse the draft, and you posting about how people who won't fight to defend their country are cowards, and somehow correlated the two. I'll admit I probably jumped the gun since what I judged you to be saying ticked me off.

My personal viewpoint is that I won't join a military that invades other countries whatever the law may say, but when the time comes to defend against threats on our own soil (foreign or domestic), I'll do what I can, including joining any local defense militia.

I'll admit I was a bit puzzled since your posts up to now haven't been of that nature. I guess I shouldn't post in a bad mood :ymhug: .