18 to 24 Year Olds Forced Into Military Service

[bobhenstra]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

[Fairminded]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

In this case the law would be the equivalent of telling us to go to other countries and murder innocents so evil men could get richer and more powerful.

No, I won't be obeying that law. Even if the Church told me to.

[SmallFarm]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

It is not only morally correct to disobey unjust laws, it is vital.

[Bgood]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

It is not only morally correct to disobey unjust laws, it is vital.

Everything America holds dear and every freedom we cherish today came from the blood, sweat and sacrifice of more than 42 million Americans who have answered the call to duty since the Revolutionary War. More than one million of them died helping to create our country, to save our Union, and to defend the world from tyranny.

[bobhenstra]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

[Bgood]

Mitt Romney a Vietnam Draft Dodger!!!!

The Associated Press reports that after Romney completed his missionary service in 1969, but he asked for and got more deferments, a total of four, successfully staying out of the war that claimed over fifty thousand American lives.

Romney is a chickenhawk lying SOB and a coward to boot. As a VietNam vet I would have loved to have seen all of the chickenhawks (Bush, Cheney, Romney Boehner Limbaugh McConnell Gingrich O'Reilly Senor Bolton Nugent, Honoi Jane the list is to long to go on)in a foxhole with M-16's with incoming!!! I bet they would all be crying for their mommies and deficating all over themselves!

DGM Honio Jane.jpg (7.57 KiB) Viewed 833 times

[freedomforall]

Freedom Fighter, I get where you are coming from. Both of my parents and my brother have served in the military. There are no doubt good men and women in the armed forces and I appreciate all of their contributions even if I don't agree with this war at all. But to say that they are CURRENTLY fighting for our freedoms and liberty is just not true. That is what it's supposed to be about but in truth since these wars began over a decade ago when we went into Iraq we have had more freedoms and liberties stripped away right out from under us BECAUSE of these wars all in the name of "protection.". Our good men and women serving are not protecting our rights by going over seas and killing a bunch of crazies that never even would have got a foothold over here had they not been allowed to by our own government.

I am not against war when it is absolutely necessary to uphold freedom and liberty and I honor and respect those who have paid the ultimate price or sacrificed being away from family to do it. But lets just get real. My brother just served a tour in Afghanistan and I am utterly heart broken over the things he had to witness and go through and over the things he is still struggling with because of it. But he did not stop our liberties from getting taken away. They are not being taken away from us by these terrorists. They are being taken away from us by our own government. We are in these countries to nation build and to oppress and harness resources. I have talked to my brother a lot about stuff over there. There is absolutely some good being done but the overall reason we are there is not to set people free but to occupy and have someone to blame for the problems we brought on ourselves as a nation. It's all an excuse to take away more rights away from us. These wars have done the complete opposite of protect our freedoms. So my brothers sacrifices are in vein. And it makes me sick.

As I have tried to point out, it isn't about government, it isn't about who is doing what, it isn't about the right or wrong of war...it is about personal achievement. I was a scared little guy; I almost ran from my own shadow. Then at eighteen (the draft was going strong...different time, different war) I had two choices, either run to Canada or go into the military. A lot of you people have never had to face such a decision, and feel justified thinking I was an idiot for choosing to do my duty...a duty I had to accomplish or go to jail. I chose military and enlisted so I wouldn't be labeled a draftee, somebody found huddled in a corner someplace. No, this scared teenage man went in using what courage I could muster, because I knew I could get killed in Vietnam.
When the time came for me to be shipped to Nam ( about 2/3 way of my four year hitch) I got drunk and I remember having to drag my seabag behind me as I forced my way to the plane. Nam was hot, wet, air was sticky, lots of mosquitoes and other fun things to endure.

But through it all I knew God was watching over me; he protected me from a lot of harm and possible injury. For that I am grateful.

When I came home, not one person was on the dock to great us, except maybe one or two parents of returning vets. For years we got called baby killers and all kinds of other foul names.

But this guy, me, I had to suck it up and learn to walk tall because in my heart I knew I had done the right thing for...you got it...ME!

So if any of you feel that I did wrong, and that I served an evil government, and can think up more damned reasons to try to make me appear somehow stupid for doing what I had to do...then go for it. I have had to deal with this small minded stuff for years. In no way can you be justified in trying to label, or demean me...because I am a better man for having experienced, not only war, but hearing crap coming out of peoples mouths, saying things they know nothing about, having not experienced what it takes to made strong.

We may be facing a battle right here in America soon. And it is all about freedom and liberty against tyranny. So who is going to stand for freedom and who will turn tail and go the other way? Who will be strong and who will be weak? In short who will be like Patrick Henry and declare "give me liberty or give me death?"

This is why I have no sympathy for people who refuse to stand for freedom, even if it means your own peace of mind, strength and the ability to stand tall.

[LateOutOfBed]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

I wonder what our society would be like if George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin and all those other "Founding Fathers" thought this way.

If you're afraid of prison time instead of doing what's right no matter what, you lack integrity to correct principles. And probably faith in God for that matter.

-- Geoff

[SmallFarm]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

If there were a "law" against being LDS?

[LateOutOfBed]

As I have tried to point out, it isn't about government, it isn't about who is doing what, it isn't about the right or wrong of war...it is about personal achievement. I was a scared little guy; I almost ran from my own shadow. Then at eighteen (the draft was going strong...different time, different war) I had two choices, either run to Canada or go into the military. A lot of you people have never had to face such a decision, and feel justified thinking I was an idiot for choosing to do my duty...a duty I had to accomplish or go to jail. I chose military and enlisted so I wouldn't be labeled a draftee, somebody found huddled in a corner someplace. No, this scared teenage man went in using what courage I could muster, because I knew I could get killed in Vietnam.
When the time came for me to be shipped to Nam ( about 2/3 way of my four year hitch) I got drunk and I remember having to drag my seabag behind me as I forced my way to the plane. Nam was hot, wet, air was sticky, lots of mosquitoes and other fun things to endure.

But through it all I knew God was watching over me; he protected me from a lot of harm and possible injury. For that I am grateful.

When I came home, not one person was on the dock to great us, except maybe one or two parents of returning vets. For years we got called baby killers and all kinds of other foul names.

But this guy, me, I had to suck it up and learn to walk tall because in my heart I knew I had done the right thing for...you got it...ME!

So if any of you feel that I did wrong, and that I served an evil government, and can think up more damned reasons to try to make me appear somehow stupid for doing what I had to do...then go for it. I have had to deal with this small minded stuff for years. In no way can you be justified in trying to label, or demean me...because I am a better man for having experienced, not only war, but hearing crap coming out of peoples mouths, saying things they know nothing about, having not experienced what it takes to made strong.

We may be facing a battle right here in America soon. And it is all about freedom and liberty against tyranny. So who is going to stand for freedom and who will turn tail and go the other way? Who will be strong and who will be weak? In short who will be like Patrick Henry and declare "give me liberty or give me death?"

This is why I have no sympathy for people who refuse to stand for freedom, even if it means your own peace of mind, strength and the ability to stand tall.

:ymapplause:

Well said Freedomfighter!

-- Geoff

[freedomforall]

As I have tried to point out, it isn't about government, it isn't about who is doing what, it isn't about the right or wrong of war...it is about personal achievement. I was a scared little guy; I almost ran from my own shadow. Then at eighteen (the draft was going strong...different time, different war) I had two choices, either run to Canada or go into the military. A lot of you people have never had to face such a decision, and feel justified thinking I was an idiot for choosing to do my duty...a duty I had to accomplish or go to jail. I chose military and enlisted so I wouldn't be labeled a draftee, somebody found huddled in a corner someplace. No, this scared teenage man went in using what courage I could muster, because I knew I could get killed in Vietnam.
When the time came for me to be shipped to Nam ( about 2/3 way of my four year hitch) I got drunk and I remember having to drag my seabag behind me as I forced my way to the plane. Nam was hot, wet, air was sticky, lots of mosquitoes and other fun things to endure.

But through it all I knew God was watching over me; he protected me from a lot of harm and possible injury. For that I am grateful.

When I came home, not one person was on the dock to great us, except maybe one or two parents of returning vets. For years we got called baby killers and all kinds of other foul names.

But this guy, me, I had to suck it up and learn to walk tall because in my heart I knew I had done the right thing for...you got it...ME!

So if any of you feel that I did wrong, and that I served an evil government, and can think up more damned reasons to try to make me appear somehow stupid for doing what I had to do...then go for it. I have had to deal with this small minded stuff for years. In no way can you be justified in trying to label, or demean me...because I am a better man for having experienced, not only war, but hearing crap coming out of peoples mouths, saying things they know nothing about, having not experienced what it takes to made strong.

We may be facing a battle right here in America soon. And it is all about freedom and liberty against tyranny. So who is going to stand for freedom and who will turn tail and go the other way? Who will be strong and who will be weak? In short who will be like Patrick Henry and declare "give me liberty or give me death?"

This is why I have no sympathy for people who refuse to stand for freedom, even if it means your own peace of mind, strength and the ability to stand tall.

:ymapplause:

Well said Freedomfighter!

-- Geoff

Thank you, Late...Bed

[AshleyB]

Freedom Fighter, None of the stuff I have said at least was made personal. I never saw anyone call you stupid or judge you. It's not about you. It's about whether the war is a cause worth fighting for. Its about whether its a cause worth taking lives and lives being taken. Little children having their mother's and father's taken away from them. Parents losing sons and daughters. Life is valuable and if life is to be a price paid then it had better be for a righteous reason. Protecting liberties are righteous. But many wars are not really about that. Those good men and women are merely disposable pawns to the ones in charge and they don't care about the loss and sacrifice. With that in mind I absolutely don't want my children or my brother or ANYONE being forced to participate in a war where there are no winners. Only suffering. My brother may have escaped with his life. He may have bravely and valiantly protected the lives of his fellow soldiers against enemy threat...but for what? What did it really accomplish? If his life was taken what would it have accomplished other than his young wife and children being widowed? It would have accomplished NOTHING. It wouldn't have brought one more bit of freedom or liberty back to us and that is the absolute shame of it all. Life is not something to be made lightly of. The worth of every soul is great. Maybe I just see it differently because I know the sacrifice and work that it takes to bring a life INTO this world. It takes, blood, sweat, and tears. And it can be taken with the simple pull of a trigger in a split second. Taking life is much easier than giving life and giving love.

[bobhenstra]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

If there were a "law" against being LDS?

It's not against the law to be LDS, we have freedom of religion! The Constitution would have to be eliminated and we know that isn't going to happen, it will be saved! When the draft started after the first presidency sent their letter, we LDS were advised to obey the law, same with Vietnam! If you think prison is better than obeying the laws of the land, the go for it! No skin of'n my nose!

Bob

[bbsion]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

If there were a "law" against being LDS?

It's not against the law to be LDS, we have freedom of religion! The Constitution would have to be eliminated and we know that isn't going to happen, it will be saved! When the draft started after the first presidency sent their letter, we LDS were advised to obey the law, same with Vietnam! If you think prison is better than obeying the laws of the land, the go for it! No skin of'n my nose!

Bob

Up until the 1970’s it was legal in the state of Ohio to shoot a Mormon on sight. Just because it's the law, it doesnt mean you should abide by it. Morals are above the law. Of course we should all be good citizens and contribute to society in a positive way. But come on now, the draft is immoral. Fighting for TRUE freedom is the right thing to do.

Plus, how many times was Joseph Smith and MANY other prophets put in jail? Obeying God should always come first.

[ajax]

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

Mexico? no. Canada? maybe.

[bobhenstra]

I said the draft was wrong in a prior post! God through his Prophet Joseph Smith said we should obey the laws of the land we live in! Whats that in?? Articles of--something or another, having trouble remembering-- Something about being subject to kings, presidents--can't seem to remember-- Age I guess!

The difference is Joseph Smith was falsely accused of breaking the laws, he was arrested under false pretenses!

When Polygamy was first being practiced there were no laws against the practice. When laws were passed outlawing polygamy the Church stopped the practice in the USA, many went to Mexico rather than leave their wives. but even some our general authorities hid out because they didn't want to desert their wives. My own great Grandfather simply paid a $50 dollar fine, was released and continued supporting both his wives. But, his paying the fine means he knew he was subject to the law, and obeyed the law of the land!

Bob

[Benjamin_LK]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

If there were a "law" against being LDS?

It's not against the law to be LDS, we have freedom of religion! The Constitution would have to be eliminated and we know that isn't going to happen, it will be saved! When the draft started after the first presidency sent their letter, we LDS were advised to obey the law, same with Vietnam! If you think prison is better than obeying the laws of the land, the go for it! No skin of'n my nose!

Bob

Didn't Mormon and his son Moroni still serve in the Nephite army as commanding officers, even though they knew they were fighting an unrighteous war?

IMHO, the military has many purposes to those who serve in it. I do hope and pray that the members of the church in the armed forces represent the values of the church while they serve in it.

[Benjamin_LK]

InfoWarrier82,

Maybe you missed the end of the Book of Mormon

The Nephites where destroyed because they became the aggressors. And because they upheld secret combinations that used their military power to get gain.

That's half the story. The part that was missing is that they didn't have the strengthening of the Lord when they really were on the defensive.

[Benjamin_LK]

Let me expound a little the reasons I have for saying what I have. I know the government is crooked, I know it has been for a long time. I know that our own government provided weapons to our enemies during the Vietnam conflict, and that Nixon and the CFR were in on it.
I know that war sucks, and that it's political and is for achieving money...and many other reasons.
But I am emphatically stating that irregardless of all other reasons, speculations, assumptions or theories...I know in my heart I did the right thing for my country, myself and my God. Yes, my country. I've earned the right to be called an American. I'd like to think I'd been one of the few men that would have stood side by side with Cap. Moroni. I see our flag as our own Title of Liberty and the day could come that it will be replaced with a Hammer and sickle. And I say that when people won't fight for the stars and strips (title of liberty), they are helping the Hammer and sickle become reality.

Anyone can justify, come up with excuses or ridicule the need to uphold and defend the Constitution, but the bottom line is somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the Constitution. The foretold Elders have to come from someplace to get the job done.

President Benson said that for anyone not willing to stand for freedom don't deserve to be a US citizen. He further said that for those who will not could find their salvation in jeopardy.

I feel that the righteousness/unrighteousness among the military personnel is a complicated matter. IMHO, some will be willing to side with the righteous in the end, and some won't. Again, like the end of the Book of Mormon, it is possible that some out of the armed forces might survive to join up with the church membership, and some may not. It's a complex matter, but it all comes down to deciding whether or not you will side with the Lord's work, it's not something I would feel safe to be the judge of, is who will make the final decision. But then again, for each and every one of us, regardless of where or who we may be, we are all faced with the same question: Do you or do you not believe or are you willing to follow the Lord or are you not?

Again, I would think it a little shortsighted to limit God's separating of wheat and tares, he will have ways to do it, we just have to either believe that, or not.

We have a lot of LDS's serving in the military right now. Are they serving for the sake of serving an evil government, or doing their duty to help freedom's cause however small it may be? They need our prayers not ridicule.

I feel I could just repeat what Glenn, AshleyB, and jonesde has already stated in reply to this. Somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the consitution? So you believe our government is corrupt and the wars are politcal and being fought for money? Yet you tell us the draft is necessary? Do you see any problem with that?? The corruption is WITHIN the country. Defending the constitution would mean fighting our own government. How do we do that? We try to live like saints. We teach morals and truth. We live the gospel. That IS how you defend the constitution and "stand for freedom" as Pres. Benson said. Not by forcefully sending the youth of the nation into a corrupt war. People fighting in our military now who truly believe they are fighting for freedom are, no doubt, great people. However, I do not believe you can obtain Celestial glory by purposefully remaining ignorant. If you are presented with truth and you never accept it in this life, then you will not accept it in the next life.

God would not force us to fight for even Himself, let alone the aweful wars going on right now. He gives us the choice.

[Original_Intent]

Didn't Mormon and his son Moroni still serve in the Nephite army as commanding officers, even though they knew they were fighting an unrighteous war?

IMHO, the military has many purposes to those who serve in it. I do hope and pray that the members of the church in the armed forces represent the values of the church while they serve in it.

Actually, they refused to lead when the wars became unrighteous.

And Bob, you should read the D&C a bit more closely regarding upholding the law of the land - ONLY as long as they are protected in their rights! In other words, we are NOT to be subject to kings, presidents, etc under UNJUST laws! Pretty simple really. Otherwise, the founding fathers would have been committing evil by refusing to be subject to their King - King George.

And ff, I am glad the military made a man out of you, for myself I would prefer to tell the draft board to go _____ themselves, even if "the law" said that I could be shot for doing so, rather than support the garbage that we have leading this country.

And yes, even if I could have a "safe" job piloting drones from miles away from the battle, I would still rather be labelled a coward and unpatriotic and refuse (regardless of the consequences) rather than take part in butchering brown people on the other side of the world for oil companies.

Anyone feels there conscience tells them to sign up for the SS or Hitler's Youth, more power to them. Not me and my house.

[freedomforall]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

Look at it this way, if all the illegal aliens in this country were to be forced (drafted) to serve for this country, how many would run back to Mexico? or wherever they came from. I believe all illegals should have to serve if they want to be called Americans, they might even learn to appreciate what it takes to be one. But many, many of them could care less about America except for how many freebees they can get out of our government. Did you know our prisons contain about 25% of the already illegals in this country? Couldn't they have had better use of their time?
I don't know if it is just rumor but, isn't POTUS enlisting gang bangers to fight for him against free people? If all of them were drafted to serve for this country, how many of them would head off some place else?

But no, let's keep all these people safe so they can maim and kill others in their neighborhoods, and break into homes to hurt, maim or kill the decent folks just trying to live their lives. Ne sense teaching them to be good, upstanding citizens.

Unless things have changed, military life requires a lot of discipline, courage, following orders and learning to get along with others. Doesn't work for everybody but by and large it does. There are always, always a few bad apples in the barrel with the rest. That is a given.

There are huge downsides to military life as well. Extremely foul language, brawling, heavy drinking, smoking and even drugs. I experienced going through all that and over time still learned to become a fairly good LDS. Anything we go through in life has its good and bad sides. We just have to decide what the right thing to do is for ourselves in each case.

How many people do not like their boss? Their bishop? Their neighbor? Where they live? The way their state is run? Porn houses down around the block? The United States government, and the Gads running it? Drone strikes on US citizens? Lying media? Digital TV? And the list goes on.

Military life is just another link in the chain for some folks. Not for everyone, but for those I've talked to, which are many, I haven't heard to many complaints about having served, rather, I hear many different stories of battle or jokes pulled on someone or the like, laughter, sadness for lost comrades...comrades that are side by side in a foxhole huddled in the rain and cold telling each other it will be all right, we'll get through it. Some of you people will never know what true camaraderie is.

[freedomforall]

I suppose then, it's better to serve several years in prison, then obey the law! You guys aren't thinking before your speaking!

If there were a "law" against being LDS?

Didn't Mormon and his son Moroni still serve in the Nephite army as commanding officers, even though they knew they were fighting an unrighteous war?

IMHO, the military has many purposes to those who serve in it. I do hope and pray that the members of the church in the armed forces represent the values of the church while they serve in it.

:-BD :-BD

[Bgood]

If it's passed as a law what are you draft resistors going to do, break the law? Is that wise? Our own members in Israel and other countries who require their youth to so serve, serve! I served in the military and am better for it, it's where I found the Church while on Okinawa.

I served voluntarily, but I'm against the draft, this law as the prophets have said is wrong, but if it becomes law, what do you do, fly to Mexico for protection?

My oldest grandson is presently serving in the USAF, I'm proud of him, if he decides to make the military a career he'll be an officer in four years and an expert in foreign languages, if he decides to get out he'll be well trained and be a much more disciplined man.

I see nothing wrong with serving your country voluntarily, but being forced to serve, as our prophets have said is wrong. By the same token, because of the changes in the new missionary policy, some of the first presidencies arguments in that day are not applicable in our day. Of course, now that young men can put their papers in before they reach the age of 18 when they must register for the draft, the young men may get a break, but what of the young women who, if the law passes, also must register for the draft at the age of 18. I suspect there'll be a lot of younger marriages----and younger women pregnancies!

I hope and pray the law doesn't pass, but if it does, I expect everyone will be advised by the church to obey the law! That'd be my advise, but then there's always---- Mexico!

Bob

Look at it this way, if all the illegal aliens in this country were to be forced (drafted) to serve for this country, how many would run back to Mexico? or wherever they came from. I believe all illegals should have to serve if they want to be called Americans, they might even learn to appreciate what it takes to be one. But many, many of them could care less about America except for how many freebees they can get out of our government. Did you know our prisons contain about 25% of the already illegals in this country? Couldn't they have had better use of their time?
I don't know if it is just rumor but, isn't POTUS enlisting gang bangers to fight for him against free people? If all of them were drafted to serve for this country, how many of them would head off some place else?

But no, let's keep all these people safe so they can maim and kill others in their neighborhoods, and break into homes to hurt, maim or kill the decent folks just trying to live their lives. Ne sense teaching them to be good, upstanding citizens.

Unless things have changed, military life requires a lot of discipline, courage, following orders and learning to get along with others. Doesn't work for everybody but by and large it does. There are always, always a few bad apples in the barrel with the rest. That is a given.

There are huge downsides to military life as well. Extremely foul language, brawling, heavy drinking, smoking and even drugs. I experienced going through all that and over time still learned to become a fairly good LDS. Anything we go through in life has its good and bad sides. We just have to decide what the right thing to do is for ourselves in each case.

How many people do not like their boss? Their bishop? Their neighbor? Where they live? The way their state is run? Porn houses down around the block? The United States government, and the Gads running it? Drone strikes on US citizens? Lying media? Digital TV? And the list goes on.

Military life is just another link in the chain for some folks. Not for everyone, but for those I've talked to, which are many, I haven't heard to many complaints about having served, rather, I hear many different stories of battle or jokes pulled on someone or the like, laughter, sadness for lost comrades...comrades that are side by side in a foxhole huddled in the rain and cold telling each other it will be all right, we'll get through it. Some of you people will never know what true camaraderie is.

:ymapplause:

[freedomforall]

Didn't Mormon and his son Moroni still serve in the Nephite army as commanding officers, even though they knew they were fighting an unrighteous war?

IMHO, the military has many purposes to those who serve in it. I do hope and pray that the members of the church in the armed forces represent the values of the church while they serve in it.

Actually, they refused to lead when the wars became unrighteous.

And Bob, you should read the D&C a bit more closely regarding upholding the law of the land - ONLY as long as they are protected in their rights! In other words, we are NOT to be subject to kings, presidents, etc under UNJUST laws! Pretty simple really. Otherwise, the founding fathers would have been committing evil by refusing to be subject to their King - King George.

And ff, I am glad the military made a man out of you, for myself I would prefer to tell the draft board to go _____ themselves, even if "the law" said that I could be shot for doing so, rather than support the garbage that we have leading this country.

And yes, even if I could have a "safe" job piloting drones from miles away from the battle, I would still rather be labelled a coward and unpatriotic and refuse (regardless of the consequences) rather than take part in butchering brown people on the other side of the world for oil companies.

Anyone feels there conscience tells them to sign up for the SS or Hitler's Youth, more power to them. Not me and my house.

Too many of you are stuck in the present. The government is far worse now than it was in the sixties. Bad, but just slightly better than it is now. And just how well off would this country be if there were no military at all, if everyone took your attitude...then where would we be? That's like saying "Moroni" you can go straight to hell, because I do not believe in the same cause you do. So you can just count me out and shove it."

Oh, come to think of it...there were men that said that...and Moroni saved someone else the time and had them killed.

UUUmmmm!

[freedomforall]

Without copying everything...THANK YOU, BGood.

And thanks to all others that know what I'm talking about.