18 to 24 Year Olds Forced Into Military Service

[TZONE]

On the other hand, I have no sympathy for anyone NOT willing to fight for this great land of ours. We may have to fight on American soil just to gain our freedom back. Sometimes it takes war to retain our agency. Those not willing to fight for freedom are in essence helping the cause of socialism.

I agree IF: Only they are fighting for FREEDOM and not CORRUPTION. That is all I am going to say about it on here. I am little nervous about this bill. Really hope it doesn't go anywhere.

[gclayjr]

feedomFighter,

Although it took time, the reason we left Viet Nam was due to Draft Protests. There have been NO significant protests of Iraq nor Afganstan. Obama is ending them (and starting others), because it suits him politically, not because of the nation rising up against the participation in these wars. I have been surprised to discover that not only are we usng only a professional mlitary, but we have begun to use civilian mercenaries in large numbers to fight these wars.

I still submit that Like the Roman empire, a major reason we have taken our eye off the ball is because these mercenaries and professional military are "invisible" in our political discourse.

Many in this forum self righteously declare how they would resist servng (or having their children serve) in the foreign wars being promoted by our government. You actually make MY point because you are not doing any of these drastic things to resist our wars since neither you nor your kids are required to fight them.

Regards,

George Clay

[Original_Intent]

Ends don't justify the means, Clay. You don't force everyone to drink liquor to get them to support prohibition.

[AshleyB]

Self righteous? And what exactly would you have us all do Clay? And how are you so sure we are doing NOTHING? I will say that I AM doing my part. I am doing exactly what Heavenly Father has asked me to do and I am fighting against these things in the way the Lord has asked. Are you? I am not your judge and you are not mine thankfully.

[tmac]

Having both served in the military, and experienced much in life, I agree with much of what has been said.

If our military was based on the legitimate "defense" of this country it would be another matter. On that basis, there is no reason our offensive wars of aggression should not be fought by mercenaries and those who volunteer for such action. That is their domain. Like others, I would hate to see my children caught up in something like this.

Having said all that, from what I understand it is something that has been in back-burner discussions for years, and rears its ugly head from time to time. But from what I understand, the economics of an unnecessary draft simply don't work. This country is already broke, and I think it would boggle all our minds what it would cost for the Federal Government to suddenly have to start drafting, training, feeding and housing a large, conscriptive military force -- especially one that at this point in time would really have nothing to do. The thing about such forces is that they produce nothing. They generate a huge expense and there is no way to offset the cost.

From what I've seen of the numbers, especially in our current conditions, even with people like those who run the current administration, unless there was a genuine emergency, I have a hard time seeing anyone make a very compelling case for taking on that financial obligation any time in the foreseeable future.

[buffalo_girl]

When was the last time the United States was called upon to defend its borders and DID NOT?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... En6Ag8y77M#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...the reason we left Viet Nam was due to Draft Protests

No, I don't think that was the reason.

That so-called war had been going on for over ten years when it was shut down.

Too many drafted soldiers were coming home heroin addicted, malaria ridden, chemically poisoned, and totally disillusioned. Too much 'fragging' in the field. Cities in the US being torched. Soldiers coming home and joining the hippie movement.

It was probably just time for the Big Boys to turn their efforts on building up China, that's all.

In 1961, I saw a 'bill of lading' for a merchant ship leaving Portland, Oregon for Vietnam. That ship was filled with tungsten mining equipment. An entire country could be defoliated with Agent Orange making it so much easier to access Vietnam's tungsten - most essential to making those little switches & things necessary for advanced rocket programs.

That's me quoted above. I wanted to be sure it was read.

Dream your nightmare dreams, but do not ever ask me to accept your delusion as my reality. I know better.

In the meantime read "War is a Racket" by MAJOR GENERAL SMEDLEY D. BUTLER, USMC - Retired:

http://www.warisaracket.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Glenn]

I have 3 points to make:

1) This tyrannical piece of legislation was first introduced by the same Rep. Charles Rangel about 4 years go to coincide with Obama's proposed civilian security force. Everyone needs to understand the origin and motive behind this legislation.

2) In regards the United States failure in Vietnam. The war was not lost because because of domestic opposition. The war was never fought to be won; it was a globalist war run by the CFR behind the scenes. It was initiated to deliver huge profits for special interests and bring the United states into great debt. That same debt triggered moves by France and others to demand gold in exchange for US Dollars holdings. In short this war facilitated the decoupling of the US Dollar from gold in International markets. The US was never the same after the financial restructuring of the early 1970s.

3) In terms of serving ones country; it is noble and required under the certain circumstances, unfortunately our situation fails to meet that criteria. The hard reality is that our Federal Government is under the control of international interests. We are literally under a foreign occupation. Surrendering a generation of sons and daughters to serve in endless wars for a foreign occupation is not a service rendered to the Constitutional Republic of the United Sates of America. In short, we have become a sort of vassal state supplying blood and treasure to our occupiers; this is what conquered kingdoms did for the Roman Empire. (the global government of their day).

Only when the American People recognize that we are under a foreign OCCUPATION -- with some domestic elements complicit-- can the awful nature of our situation be appreciated within a historical context.

Respectfully.

[buffalo_girl]

Thank you, Glenn. Your points were so much more civilized and clearly defined than mine.

I guess I still have a hard time with the principle of 'measured response'.

[Silas]

Well said Glenn, If we had a Captain Moroni running things it would be different but I won't allow my children to be made slaves and forced to kill and be killed by a bunch of wicked gadianton robbers.

[tmac]

Yes Glenn, excellent post. Thanks for your contribution.

[sonofliberty]

If protecting one's right to freedom and liberty is taking away one's agency...then think what it will be like in a Fema camp surrounded by armed guards...guards willing to put a bullet into your skull if you try to escape.

Freedomfighter, Thank you for your service and Semper Fi from a fellow Marine! 2001-2012, volunteer, Veteran of the war in Iraq

Not sure if I completely follow what you are saying above ... our you saying we may need to give up our agency in order to protect our freedom or that if we do not give up our agency, we may be placed in FEMA camps? I don't follow how instituting a draft conclusively protects our freedoms more then having a an armed force of volunteers? Or that insituting a draft will prevent U.S. citizens from being placed in FEMA camps?

[freedomforall]

Let me expound a little the reasons I have for saying what I have. I know the government is crooked, I know it has been for a long time. I know that our own government provided weapons to our enemies during the Vietnam conflict, and that Nixon and the CFR were in on it.
I know that war sucks, and that it's political and is for achieving money...and many other reasons.
But I am emphatically stating that irregardless of all other reasons, speculations, assumptions or theories...I know in my heart I did the right thing for my country, myself and my God. Yes, my country. I've earned the right to be called an American. I'd like to think I'd been one of the few men that would have stood side by side with Cap. Moroni. I see our flag as our own Title of Liberty and the day could come that it will be replaced with a Hammer and sickle. And I say that when people won't fight for the stars and strips (title of liberty), they are helping the Hammer and sickle become reality.

Anyone can justify, come up with excuses or ridicule the need to uphold and defend the Constitution, but the bottom line is somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the Constitution. The foretold Elders have to come from someplace to get the job done.

President Benson said that for anyone not willing to stand for freedom don't deserve to be a US citizen. He further said that for those who will not could find their salvation in jeopardy.

We have a lot of LDS's serving in the military right now. Are they serving for the sake of serving an evil government, or doing their duty to help freedom's cause however small it may be? They need our prayers not ridicule.

[freedomforall]

If protecting one's right to freedom and liberty is taking away one's agency...then think what it will be like in a Fema camp surrounded by armed guards...guards willing to put a bullet into your skull if you try to escape.

Freedomfighter, Thank you for your service and Semper Fi from a fellow Marine! 2001-2012, volunteer, Veteran of the war in Iraq

Not sure if I completely follow what you are saying above ... our you saying we may need to give up our agency in order to protect our freedom or that if we do not give up our agency, we may be placed in FEMA camps? I don't follow how instituting a draft conclusively protects our freedoms more then having a an armed force of volunteers? Or that insituting a draft will prevent U.S. citizens from being placed in FEMA camps?

Someone claimed that by a draft being instituted it robs young men and women of their agency. Maybe so, but I see it as an opportunity to show God that even tho the government is a piece of feces, by going ahead and serving for one's own sense of duty toward what little freedom one still may have...why not? I went from a scared little momma's boy to a freedom loving patriot. And I think God is okay with that. I'm just glad I wasn't one of the guys that ran off to Canada. I wonder after all this time if they can still live with themselves. One thing that hasn't changed...I still fight fear.

[jonesde]

Let me expound a little the reasons I have for saying what I have. I know the government is crooked, I know it has been for a long time. I know that our own government provided weapons to our enemies during the Vietnam conflict, and that Nixon and the CFR were in on it.
I know that war sucks, and that it's political and is for achieving money...and many other reasons.
But I am emphatically stating that irregardless of all other reasons, speculations, assumptions or theories...I know in my heart I did the right thing for my country, myself and my God. Yes, my country. I've earned the right to be called an American. I'd like to think I'd been one of the few men that would have stood side by side with Cap. Moroni. I see our flag as our own Title of Liberty and the day could come that it will be replaced with a Hammer and sickle. And I say that when people won't fight for the stars and strips (title of liberty), they are helping the Hammer and sickle become reality.

Anyone can justify, come up with excuses or ridicule the need to uphold and defend the Constitution, but the bottom line is somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the Constitution. The foretold Elders have to come from someplace to get the job done.

President Benson said that for anyone not willing to stand for freedom don't deserve to be a US citizen. He further said that for those who will not could find their salvation in jeopardy.

We have a lot of LDS's serving in the military right now. Are they serving for the sake of serving an evil government, or doing their duty to help freedom's cause however small it may be? They need our prayers not ridicule.

This is disturbing in a special kind of way.

Harming others to enrich the corrupt, centralize power, and compromise rights supposedly protected by the constitution is not in any way protecting the constitution and it isn't in any way standing up for freedom.

The hammer and sickle folks in other parts of the world are not the ones destroying the constitution, it is the politicians in the two major political parties (and nearly all of the minor parties too) that are working from within to compromise freedom... and they are the ones controlling the military and using it for their ends, not to protect the people here in the USA or anywhere else in the world for that matter (in spite of claims to the contrary).

I'm sorry, but believing that participating in the killing and destruction of property in other parts of the world somehow protects freedom at home is based on a lie. It is also one of very important lies used to justify theft from the people in taxes, and erosion of natural rights... including the rights listed in the US Constitution and so it is a tool for nullifying that document.

[AshleyB]

Freedom Fighter, I get where you are coming from. Both of my parents and my brother have served in the military. There are no doubt good men and women in the armed forces and I appreciate all of their contributions even if I don't agree with this war at all. But to say that they are CURRENTLY fighting for our freedoms and liberty is just not true. That is what it's supposed to be about but in truth since these wars began over a decade ago when we went into Iraq we have had more freedoms and liberties stripped away right out from under us BECAUSE of these wars all in the name of "protection.". Our good men and women serving are not protecting our rights by going over seas and killing a bunch of crazies that never even would have got a foothold over here had they not been allowed to by our own government.

I am not against war when it is absolutely necessary to uphold freedom and liberty and I honor and respect those who have paid the ultimate price or sacrificed being away from family to do it. But lets just get real. My brother just served a tour in Afghanistan and I am utterly heart broken over the things he had to witness and go through and over the things he is still struggling with because of it. But he did not stop our liberties from getting taken away. They are not being taken away from us by these terrorists. They are being taken away from us by our own government. We are in these countries to nation build and to oppress and harness resources. I have talked to my brother a lot about stuff over there. There is absolutely some good being done but the overall reason we are there is not to set people free but to occupy and have someone to blame for the problems we brought on ourselves as a nation. It's all an excuse to take away more rights away from us. These wars have done the complete opposite of protect our freedoms. So my brothers sacrifices are in vein. And it makes me sick.

[eric]

Captain Moroni is the only one that comes close, and the ONLY ones we have record of him "drafting" were traitors who were trying to destroy the government from within.

And when was the last time the United States found it necessary to 'protect its borders'?

Exactly!! My mom is Canadian. I am also by virtue of being her son. I am applying for Canadian citizenship so they don't drag my now 16 year old off to some ridiculous war to waste his life for what??

I could never figure out why we suddenly moved to Canada in 1973 when my oldest brother hit the draft age.... Now I get it. Vietnam was a huge waste of lives and treasure thanks to LBJ and the gads of the day that ET Benson was warning the members about. The minute there is a REAL threat to our nation within our borders or at the borders, I would gladly send myself and all my kids off to war.

I have to say ...... I never thought I would be saying this ^^^^. What our country has become just absolutely hacks me off! We have turned the Constitution and the will of the people into a joke!

[InfoWarrior82]

Will anyone accept this challenge?

Here it is:

Show me an instance in the Book of Mormon where invading armies prevailed?

Good luck!

[InfoWarrior82]

Step 1



Step 2

[Hogmeister]

Look at the bigger picture. Obama will need the young more easily controlled portion of the nation to be able to exert control over the rest (more patriotic elements). How do you suppose Hitler used Hitlerjugend? Same thing. Conditioned sons and daughters will turn on their own families in support of the fuhrer and the "good" of the nation. You will find that funding programs like these with your tax money and the fed moneyprinting will not be an issue. Its all a part of visions of the last days. Fight the deception in high places any way you can. Good luck from Scandinavia!

[tmac]

Thanks Hogmeister. Good points. Whereabouts in Scandinavia?

When I was in Scandinavia (Norway), one year uniform military service was required of all young men, much like Israel. Is it still that way? What are your impressions of that system?

One thing I will have to say is that even though Scandinavian countries are unquestionably socialistic, their governments are much, much better financial managers than our own. The fact that Norway has a considerable amount of petro-dollars doesn't hurt either.

[gclayjr]

InfoWarrier82,

Maybe you missed the end of the Book of Mormon

[InfoWarrior82]

InfoWarrier82,

Maybe you missed the end of the Book of Mormon

The Nephites where destroyed because they became the aggressors. And because they upheld secret combinations that used their military power to get gain.

[BroJones]

Freedom Fighter, I get where you are coming from. Both of my parents and my brother have served in the military. There are no doubt good men and women in the armed forces and I appreciate all of their contributions even if I don't agree with this war at all. But to say that they are CURRENTLY fighting for our freedoms and liberty is just not true. That is what it's supposed to be about but in truth since these wars began over a decade ago when we went into Iraq we have had more freedoms and liberties stripped away right out from under us BECAUSE of these wars all in the name of "protection.". Our good men and women serving are not protecting our rights by going over seas and killing a bunch of crazies that never even would have got a foothold over here had they not been allowed to by our own government.

I am not against war when it is absolutely necessary to uphold freedom and liberty and I honor and respect those who have paid the ultimate price or sacrificed being away from family to do it. But lets just get real. My brother just served a tour in Afghanistan and I am utterly heart broken over the things he had to witness and go through and over the things he is still struggling with because of it. But he did not stop our liberties from getting taken away. They are not being taken away from us by these terrorists. They are being taken away from us by our own government. We are in these countries to nation build and to oppress and harness resources. I have talked to my brother a lot about stuff over there. There is absolutely some good being done but the overall reason we are there is not to set people free but to occupy and have someone to blame for the problems we brought on ourselves as a nation. It's all an excuse to take away more rights away from us. These wars have done the complete opposite of protect our freedoms. So my brothers sacrifices are in vein. And it makes me sick.

Thank you, Ashleyb. I recall that at a General Conference, Pres. Hinckley stated that "we are involved in terrible wars" that kill and maim many thousands. I believe that is true.

A counselor in our Stk Pres'y visited our little branch (but growing!) Sunday -- he teaches military at Ft. Leavenworth. He said in conversation after church that he is VERY concerned about the ethics of using drones to go into other countries -- and the US -- to go in and kill people. But, he said, he feels he must follow orders (no matter what was the implication). Its sad.

[bbsion]

Let me expound a little the reasons I have for saying what I have. I know the government is crooked, I know it has been for a long time. I know that our own government provided weapons to our enemies during the Vietnam conflict, and that Nixon and the CFR were in on it.
I know that war sucks, and that it's political and is for achieving money...and many other reasons.
But I am emphatically stating that irregardless of all other reasons, speculations, assumptions or theories...I know in my heart I did the right thing for my country, myself and my God. Yes, my country. I've earned the right to be called an American. I'd like to think I'd been one of the few men that would have stood side by side with Cap. Moroni. I see our flag as our own Title of Liberty and the day could come that it will be replaced with a Hammer and sickle. And I say that when people won't fight for the stars and strips (title of liberty), they are helping the Hammer and sickle become reality.

Anyone can justify, come up with excuses or ridicule the need to uphold and defend the Constitution, but the bottom line is somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the Constitution. The foretold Elders have to come from someplace to get the job done.

President Benson said that for anyone not willing to stand for freedom don't deserve to be a US citizen. He further said that for those who will not could find their salvation in jeopardy.

We have a lot of LDS's serving in the military right now. Are they serving for the sake of serving an evil government, or doing their duty to help freedom's cause however small it may be? They need our prayers not ridicule.

I feel I could just repeat what Glenn, AshleyB, and jonesde has already stated in reply to this. Somebody has to do the nasty job of saving the consitution? So you believe our government is corrupt and the wars are politcal and being fought for money? Yet you tell us the draft is necessary? Do you see any problem with that?? The corruption is WITHIN the country. Defending the constitution would mean fighting our own government. How do we do that? We try to live like saints. We teach morals and truth. We live the gospel. That IS how you defend the constitution and "stand for freedom" as Pres. Benson said. Not by forcefully sending the youth of the nation into a corrupt war. People fighting in our military now who truly believe they are fighting for freedom are, no doubt, great people. However, I do not believe you can obtain Celestial glory by purposefully remaining ignorant. If you are presented with truth and you never accept it in this life, then you will not accept it in the next life.

God would not force us to fight for even Himself, let alone the aweful wars going on right now. He gives us the choice.

[gert]

I have 3 points to make:

1) This tyrannical piece of legislation was first introduced by the same Rep. Charles Rangel about 4 years go to coincide with Obama's proposed civilian security force. Everyone needs to understand the origin and motive behind this legislation.

2) In regards the United States failure in Vietnam. The war was not lost because because of domestic opposition. The war was never fought to be won; it was a globalist war run by the CFR behind the scenes. It was initiated to deliver huge profits for special interests and bring the United states into great debt. That same debt triggered moves by France and others to demand gold in exchange for US Dollars holdings. In short this war facilitated the decoupling of the US Dollar from gold in International markets. The US was never the same after the financial restructuring of the early 1970s.

3) In terms of serving ones country; it is noble and required under the certain circumstances, unfortunately our situation fails to meet that criteria. The hard reality is that our Federal Government is under the control of international interests. We are literally under a foreign occupation. Surrendering a generation of sons and daughters to serve in endless wars for a foreign occupation is not a service rendered to the Constitutional Republic of the United Sates of America. In short, we have become a sort of vassal state supplying blood and treasure to our occupiers; this is what conquered kingdoms did for the Roman Empire. (the global government of their day).

Only when the American People recognize that we are under a foreign OCCUPATION -- with some domestic elements complicit-- can the awful nature of our situation be appreciated within a historical context.

Respectfully.

:ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause: :ymapplause: