18 to 24 Year Olds Forced Into Military Service

[Original_Intent]

Thank you Awar_e, for your study and your knowledge, and well, your awar_eness.

I'm a little down tonight, there's a thousand ways to screw up and only one right way - makes me wonder what my chances are of being one of the ones that get it right.

[TZONE]

By the reasoning that we should always think the military bad, well, you might as well give up believing the Book of Mormon, because the two people who credit themselves to compiling it served a wicked nation in a wicked military, yet still were somehow worthy enough to bring forth the record to light.

Correction. Mormon and Moroni resigned when they realized their leaders were corrupt and going to war for unrighteous reasons. For this, they were blessed to be the ones to bring us this glorious record.

P.S. if you reason for joining the military is perchance to share the gospel... you're joining the military for the wrong reason. You're going to end up doing more harm in the long run.

In the book of ether he fought with the wicked people KNOWING they were wicked. He stopped at first saying there hope is gone but has a change of heart and decides to fight FOR THEM (not against the other people though he still fought them) that perhaps they may be have a change of heart. But he knew sadly there was almost no hope due to their corruption.

[awar_e]

We have already witnessed a number of good and prominent military leaders to resign or be fired outright by the power hungry commanders in cheat.
The earliest that I recall was Douglas MacArthur which nearly got Truman lynched. MacArthur fought wars to win and the UN did not intend that to happen in Korea. His crime was to stop announcing what he was going to do in advance and he launched a surprise attack which took the communist side of the planned event by surprised and ruined the plans of the UN at least until Truman fired him.
Over the years of our meddling in as many countries as possible in the areas of the Holy lands we have seen many officers resign, get reassigned or fired. Only the top ones make any sort of headlines, as is the case with the rising tide of suicides which occur both in the war areas and at home when they return with a shattered mind.
At some point most recognize the utter futility of their situation along with the fact that they have been cast together with those who enjoy the killing along with those who imagine that they can make a difference in the outcome.
As each countries leader is first attacked by propaganda in this nation to make them appear to be someone who no longer deserves to rule or live, we aid and abet the opposition to these leaders so that the folks at home will see our military as a righteous force when we announce that we must engage that nation to protect our freedom. When the recent planned removal of a person that was about to be exposed as an operative appeared to have gone badly, BY DESIGN, the result was replacing Hilary Clinton (Also a planned event) to allow John Kerry to come to the rescue of the plan to attack Syria. He announced yesterday that we will "provide open support" of the opposition to the current regime of Syria. I have lost count years ago, of the leaders which our govt and CIA have removed from office and replaced with worse leaders. Fidel Castro comes to mind as the first that I recall. Patrice Lumumba was another work of UN/US art. We have quite a record of being internationally what we now openly fret about in the local schools. We have become the BULLY Par excellence.
Now with this as our history, about the only thing I can see regarding young folks entering the US Military is the long time warning that I adhere to, You become what you are around. Many are recognizing this and can not face what they have become.
My concern is that many in this nation still do not recognize that we remain under condemnation for not taking the BoM to heart and living by its example. For this very reason we are missing 2/3 of the book.

Looking at us from the eyes of Christ, we may appear to not have learned anything from the days of Noah, Sodom and Gomorrah, our Civil War or any of the planned events since the 1945 creation of the most horrible world govt body since Adam and Eve.
The Nuremberg trials, which I caught on the radio live, were a Sunday school picnic compared to what we now live with. I still remember the live broadcast as prison guards attempted to wrestle the cyanide pill from the mouth of Hermann Goering.
http://mattstodayinhistory.blogspot.com ... icide.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[awar_e]

DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE PLAN:
The fact that most of our citizens have never heard of Madame Blavatsky, theosophy, or that two of theosophy's most ardent disciples were Adolf Hitler and Margaret Sanger clearly reflects the degree of control that exists over what the American people have been allowed to learn about the occultic forces at work in our nation today.

http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[awar_e]

A small excerpt from the above link:

David Graber, a research biologist with the National Park Service, was quoted in the Los Angeles Times Book Review Section, October 22, 1989, as saying: "Human happiness and certainly human fecundity are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn't true ... We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth ...Until such time as homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along." 14
Michael Fox, when he was the vice-president of The Humane Society of the United States wrote, "Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth." 15
In "The First Global Revolution," published by The Council of the Club of Rome, an international elitist organization, the authors note that: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine, and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention ...The real enemy, then, is humanity itself." 16
he Los Angeles Times of April 5, 1994 quoted Cornell University Professor David Pimentel, speaking before the American Association for the Advancement of Science, as saying that, "The total world population should be no more than 2 billion rather than the current 5.6 billion."
In the UNESCO Courier of November 1991, Jacques Cousteau wrote: "The damage people cause to the planet is a function of demographics - it is equal to the degree of development. One American burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes ... This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."17
Bertrand Russell, in his book, "The Impact of Science on Society," wrote, "At present the population of the world is increasing ... War so far has had no great effect on this increase ... I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others ... If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full ... the state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others." 18
egative Population Growth Inc. of Teaneck, New Jersey recently circulated a letter stating their long-range goal. "We believe that our goal for the United States should be no more than 150 million, our size in 1950. For the world, we believe our goal should be a population of not more than two billion, its size shortly after the turn of the century." 19
n the Global Assessment Report of UNEP (a United Nations sponsored study group), Phase One Draft, Section 9, the authors quoted an expert who suggested that: "A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible." 20
More New Age Influence
Speaking at a round-table discussion group at the Gorbachev Conference held in San Francisco in the fall of 1996, Dr. Sam Keen, a New Age writer and philosopher stated that there was strong agreement that religious institutions have to take a primary responsibility for the population explosion. He went on to say that, "We must speak far more clearly about sexuality, contraception, about abortion, about values that control the population, because the ecological crisis, in short, is the population crisis. Cut the population by 90% and there aren't enough people left to do a great deal of ecological damage."
Mr. Keen's remarks were met with applause from the assembled audience made up largely of New Age adherents, Socialists, Internationalists and occultists. Many of the leading occultists of our modern world attended that meeting in San Francisco, a meeting organized by Mikhail Gorbachev, former Director of the Soviet KGB, and later President of Russia. 21

[buffalo_girl]

Thank you, for referencing Dr. Monteith's research, aware!

Dr. Monteith is a great source of reliable information. He gets a bit quirky in regard to orthodox religions - like Islam & Mormonism - but his political and secret combinations research is impeccable. He is now in his 80's, but still does a daily talk show at GCN Radio.

http://www.gcnlive.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.gcnlive.com/programs/radioLiberty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Benjamin_LK]

By the reasoning that we should always think the military bad, well, you might as well give up believing the Book of Mormon, because the two people who credit themselves to compiling it served a wicked nation in a wicked military, yet still were somehow worthy enough to bring forth the record to light.

Correction. Mormon and Moroni resigned when they realized their leaders were corrupt and going to war for unrighteous reasons. For this, they were blessed to be the ones to bring us this glorious record.

P.S. if you reason for joining the military is perchance to share the gospel... you're joining the military for the wrong reason. You're going to end up doing more harm in the long run.

Nothing of the sort, nice strawman argument though. Every member is supposed to be a missionary, wherever they are and however they serve. There is no ban on serving in the military or police from the Lord himself. There is no commandment against exemplifying the gospel. The idea that somehow I believe that is a product of your own imagination. I don't believe in limits to where any given member can exemplify the gospel, outside of what is commanded by the Lord where we should not preach. Feel free to have your own opinions though.

Again, you stand incorrect, Mormon was with them at the last battle of Cumorah, he was wounded there in battle, he lost thousands under his command, any resignation he had was void by then, sorry, he wasn't the noble guy whom you thought he was. He went back on his promise not to command the Nephites. You could argue that he allowed himself to be subject to a form of the draft.

[InfoWarrior82]

By the reasoning that we should always think the military bad, well, you might as well give up believing the Book of Mormon, because the two people who credit themselves to compiling it served a wicked nation in a wicked military, yet still were somehow worthy enough to bring forth the record to light.

Correction. Mormon and Moroni resigned when they realized their leaders were corrupt and going to war for unrighteous reasons. For this, they were blessed to be the ones to bring us this glorious record.

P.S. if you reason for joining the military is perchance to share the gospel... you're joining the military for the wrong reason. You're going to end up doing more harm in the long run.

Nothing of the sort, nice strawman argument though. Every member is supposed to be a missionary, wherever they are and however they serve. There is no ban on serving in the military or police from the Lord himself. There is no commandment against exemplifying the gospel. The idea that somehow I believe that is a product of your own imagination. I don't believe in limits to where any given member can exemplify the gospel, outside of what is commanded by the Lord where we should not preach. Feel free to have your own opinions though.

Again, you stand incorrect, Mormon was with them at the last battle of Cumorah, he was wounded there in battle, he lost thousands under his command, any resignation he had was void by then, sorry, he wasn't the noble guy whom you thought he was. He went back on his promise not to command the Nephites. You could argue that he allowed himself to be subject to a form of the draft.

The point is that Mormon knew exactly why he resigned and knew why they were losing. Because they were the aggressors. It matters not to me whether or not he involved himself again in the final battles against the Lamanites. That is very understandable. A lifelong military man is going to jump ship in the battle that wipes out your people? Not likely. Mormon was a very noble man. It is because he recognized there were things NO military should do EVEN in times of war that he was blessed by the Lord.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... um=2&id=64" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

12. Mormon "cannot any longer enforce [his] commands" (Moroni 9:18)

O the depravity of my people! They are without order and without mercy. Behold, I am but a man, and I have but the strength of a man, and I cannot any longer enforce my commands. (Moroni 9:18)

There came a time when the Nephites' wicked desires came into conflict with the commands of Mormon. The military setting here seems to imply that this epistle was written either before or after Mormon did "utterly refuse from this time forth to be a commander and a leader of this people" (Mormon 3:11), which would be before or after the period 362—75 (Mormon 3:8—5:1). Two specific textual references might apply: The first instance of the Nephite people going completely against Mormon was in 362 (Mormon 3:14), when they desired to wage war against the Lamanites who had not initiated any aggressive action. Mormon opposed them and was overruled. Also, during the period 375—79 there is an implication of Nephite disobedience associated with a statement reflecting Mormon's frustration with the Nephite people's reluctance to gather:

But it came to pass that whatsoever lands we had passed by, and the inhabitants thereof were not gathered in, were destroyed by the Lamanites, and their towns, and villages, and cities were burned with fire; and thus three hundred and seventy and nine years passed away. (Mormon 5:5)

Therefore, clue 12 is satisfied by two time periods, 360—62 and 375—79.

If you join our current military out of a place of duty and service (and ignorance), you will not be held accountable. But, someone joining this current military knowing whom you are truly serving, I believe you will have to answer for that. You don't need to be a member of the armed forces to share the gospel. And why do I say that joining the military is going to do more harm than good in the long run? The military owns you. You'll do what they say, and so will the guy you just gave a Book of Mormon to.

[Benjamin_LK]

If you join our current military out of a place of duty and service (and ignorance), you will not be held accountable. But, someone joining this current military knowing whom you are truly serving, I believe you will have to answer for that. You don't need to be a member of the armed forces to share the gospel. And why do I say that joining the military is going to do more harm than good in the long run? The military owns you. You'll do what they say, and so will the guy you just gave a Book of Mormon to.

[/quote][/quote]

I have a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the government military owning me, again, that doesn't sound like something limited to the military either. Again, while you may be owned regardless of your civilian or military status, by some unjust government, the Lord owns you or is your father in the eternal sense, the question is whether or not we're willing to believe that he exists, and obey his will. Plenty of civilians can do plenty of awful things, like the lynching era in the South, and say that they, as civilians or police, were "just following orders" As far as I am concerned plenty of people who served in unjust wars like World War 2 can still come out with strong testimonies and serve as apostles, while plenty of civilians can turn bitter against the church and/or even civil authority to the point of falling away. While World War 2 was an unjust, IMO war, it didn't inhibit a number of people from now being apostles, I figure that whatever they did, they made the better available choices regarding their own standards through that time of service, regardless of circumstance, and despite this questionably righteous draft passed for World War II. I used to understand how you feel, that being in the military = evil, until I later came to realize that regardless of where you are, your pretty much in a situation that doesn't differ much in terms of you either keeping the faith regardless of where you are, or falling away regardless of where you are.

But then again, a commonly spoken principle encompasses what we're talking about," 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye btransformed by the crenewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, fwill of God."

Do we live under the unrighteous laws of politicians, or laws passed and administered by unrighteous, or even simply imperfect politicians? That we do, does this same standard of serving a flawed, and often unjust leader/ruler apply to all occupations, including but not limited to serving in government and/or military, yes it does. But the point that Paul gets at in this principle is that while we may serve unjust rulers, or live in organizations like the military, like government. Again, the Lord's reach isn't all that limited, and people in all positions can, despite the unjustfulness of their past, live righteously and shine as an example.

Regarding the draft, I doubt it will make much of a difference, because whatever brings about the draft will likely be a genuine attempt at trying to defend America. But whatever it be: war, nuclear holocaust, earthquake, superstorm, or mega-volcano, it's pretty much the power of God that really saves whomever will survive it.[/quote]

[InfoWarrior82]

I have a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the government military owning me, again, that doesn't sound like something limited to the military either.

It certainly isn't limited to the military, but military is where you will will learn quickly that you have no free will. You follow orders, or else.

Again, while you may be owned regardless of your civilian or military status, by some unjust government, the Lord owns you or is your father in the eternal sense, the question is whether or not we're willing to believe that he exists, and obey his will.

It is also about acting upon or not acting upon the light and knowledge you receive in this life. I believe if you learned that your government is corrupt, He expect you to not comply with joining with them and fighting their unrighteous offensive wars.

Plenty of civilians can do plenty of awful things, like the lynching era in the South, and say that they, as civilians or police, were "just following orders" As far as I am concerned plenty of people who served in unjust wars like World War 2 can still come out with strong testimonies and serve as apostles, while plenty of civilians can turn bitter against the church and/or even civil authority to the point of falling away. While World War 2 was an unjust, IMO war, it didn't inhibit a number of people from now being apostles, I figure that whatever they did, they made the better available choices regarding their own standards through that time of service, regardless of circumstance, and despite this questionably righteous draft passed for World War II. I used to understand how you feel, that being in the military = evil, until I later came to realize that regardless of where you are, your pretty much in a situation that doesn't differ much in terms of you either keeping the faith regardless of where you are, or falling away regardless of where you are.

Again, the point is, KNOWLEDGE. It is: Do you understand who you are serving? Many soldiers (in all wars) didn't have the knowledge that perhaps you and I have. I thank God everyday for having this knowledge, while at the same time, part of me wishes I was ignorant so I wouldn't have to be responsible for the knowledge I have.

But then again, a commonly spoken principle encompasses what we're talking about," 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye btransformed by the crenewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, fwill of God."

I agree.

Do we live under the unrighteous laws of politicians, or laws passed and administered by unrighteous, or even simply imperfect politicians?

Both

That we do, does this same standard of serving a flawed, and often unjust leader/ruler apply to all occupations, including but not limited to serving in government and/or military, yes it does. But the point that Paul gets at in this principle is that while we may serve unjust rulers, or live in organizations like the military, like government. Again, the Lord's reach isn't all that limited, and people in all positions can, despite the unjustfulness of their past, live righteously and shine as an example.

It's all about the light and knowledge you currently have that clarifies any decision you make to serve them. This situation isn't a "render unto Caesar which is Caesar's". This is situation is a "Render you life, your son's life, to kill and be killed so that we can get gain and power."

Regarding the draft, I doubt it will make much of a difference, because whatever brings about the draft will likely be a genuine attempt at trying to defend America. But whatever it be: war, nuclear holocaust, earthquake, superstorm, or mega-volcano, it's pretty much the power of God that really saves whomever will survive it.

I think that the only circumstance a draft would be considered moral, is if it were a purely defensive war against an invasion on our own soil. When that time comes, I believe God will defend our lives so that Zion may be established. We will not be wiped out completely.

[Benjamin_LK]

I have a hard time trying to understand what you mean by the government military owning me, again, that doesn't sound like something limited to the military either.

It certainly isn't limited to the military, but military is where you will will learn quickly that you have no free will. You follow orders, or else.

Correction: you follow God, or you fear the threat of imprisonment or death and forfeit what could have been a more glorious existence in the world to come.

Again, while you may be owned regardless of your civilian or military status, by some unjust government, the Lord owns you or is your father in the eternal sense, the question is whether or not we're willing to believe that he exists, and obey his will.

It is also about acting upon or not acting upon the light and knowledge you receive in this life. I believe if you learned that your government is corrupt, He expect you to not comply with joining with them and fighting their unrighteous offensive wars.

Plenty of civilians can do plenty of awful things, like the lynching era in the South, and say that they, as civilians or police, were "just following orders" As far as I am concerned plenty of people who served in unjust wars like World War 2 can still come out with strong testimonies and serve as apostles, while plenty of civilians can turn bitter against the church and/or even civil authority to the point of falling away. While World War 2 was an unjust, IMO war, it didn't inhibit a number of people from now being apostles, I figure that whatever they did, they made the better available choices regarding their own standards through that time of service, regardless of circumstance, and despite this questionably righteous draft passed for World War II. I used to understand how you feel, that being in the military = evil, until I later came to realize that regardless of where you are, your pretty much in a situation that doesn't differ much in terms of you either keeping the faith regardless of where you are, or falling away regardless of where you are.

Again, the point is, KNOWLEDGE. It is: Do you understand who you are serving? Many soldiers (in all wars) didn't have the knowledge that perhaps you and I have. I thank God everyday for having this knowledge, while at the same time, part of me wishes I was ignorant so I wouldn't have to be responsible for the knowledge I have.

L. Tom Perry and Thomas S. Monson were active members of the church, and now Apostles, which raises questions as to how accountable they should be held. I doubt I am more knowledgeable than them for the welfare of the church as a whole.

But then again, a commonly spoken principle encompasses what we're talking about," 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye btransformed by the crenewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, fwill of God."

I agree.

Do we live under the unrighteous laws of politicians, or laws passed and administered by unrighteous, or even simply imperfect politicians?

Both

That we do, does this same standard of serving a flawed, and often unjust leader/ruler apply to all occupations, including but not limited to serving in government and/or military, yes it does. But the point that Paul gets at in this principle is that while we may serve unjust rulers, or live in organizations like the military, like government. Again, the Lord's reach isn't all that limited, and people in all positions can, despite the unjustfulness of their past, live righteously and shine as an example.

It's all about the light and knowledge you currently have that clarifies any decision you make to serve them. This situation isn't a "render unto Caesar which is Caesar's". This is situation is a "Render you life, your son's life, to kill and be killed so that we can get gain and power."

Rendering unto Ceasar meant rendering to a government that was ferociously anti-Jew and Anti-Christian, especially on a local level with the offensive actions of Pontius Pilate. Look up more of the non-church sources on him, he isn't pretty, and the Jews had plenty of reasons to not like Roman dominion, besides just the fact that the rulers weren't Jewish.

Yes, there were also plenty of whacked out Roman leaders, or "Caesars" who ordered persecutions and invasions, and wars, for selfish reasons too. Rome was frequently run by Civil War over succession of rule in the Roman Empire, with some intermittencies, such as the rule of Caesar Augustus, but for the most part, the Roman Empire had many of the problems and corruptions that the United States has today, milder in terms of magnitude, but in similar areas.

But the deeper meaning I have found is that one needs to separate and understand things which are spiritual, and understand that one can materially support and live under the laws of someone as tyrannical and unjust as Caesar, yet still have their hearts set on God

Regarding the draft, I doubt it will make much of a difference, because whatever brings about the draft will likely be a genuine attempt at trying to defend America. But whatever it be: war, nuclear holocaust, earthquake, superstorm, or mega-volcano, it's pretty much the power of God that really saves whomever will survive it.

I think that the only circumstance a draft would be considered moral, is if it were a purely defensive war against an invasion on our own soil. When that time comes, I believe God will defend our lives so that Zion may be established. We will not be wiped out completely.

I have no disagreement with you there, and I strongly believe that some vain attempt at defending the United States is possible, or could happen. I have no disagreement in the fact that not all church members will be wiped out, but I also feel that we will have plenty of suffering, sacrifices, work, and so on, expected of us in order to remain faithful members.

I draw the line at saying that all military service is evil, because while there are unjust wars, there are people asked to patrol and guard the homeland of the United States at all times, and I doubt that their duty is inherently evil. Yes, there is corruption in the military, but not all people are evil. I also believe that God will eventually separate the righteous from the wicked in some way from all organizations including the military, as well as any others where members of the church participate. I don't believe that God is so limited that he can't reach or reveal to the Apostles and Prophets and give the inspired commandment to either leave or not enlist for the military at all. I would be perfectly open to that commandment when it comes.

Again, the power of God is the only real thing that saves or preserves you, regardless of whether your speculation, my speculation, or none of the speculations on this forum turn out to be accurate, that's still true.

[Benjamin_LK]

By the reasoning that we should always think the military bad, well, you might as well give up believing the Book of Mormon, because the two people who credit themselves to compiling it served a wicked nation in a wicked military, yet still were somehow worthy enough to bring forth the record to light.

Correction. Mormon and Moroni resigned when they realized their leaders were corrupt and going to war for unrighteous reasons. For this, they were blessed to be the ones to bring us this glorious record.

P.S. if you reason for joining the military is perchance to share the gospel... you're joining the military for the wrong reason. You're going to end up doing more harm in the long run.

In the book of ether he fought with the wicked people KNOWING they were wicked. He stopped at first saying there hope is gone but has a change of heart and decides to fight FOR THEM (not against the other people though he still fought them) that perhaps they may be have a change of heart. But he knew sadly there was almost no hope due to their corruption.

But serving the Nephites could be the lesser of two evils, considering that the Lamanites would kill you just for believing in Jesus Christ.

[Benjamin_LK]

feedomFighter,

Although it took time, the reason we left Viet Nam was due to Draft Protests. There have been NO significant protests of Iraq nor Afganstan. Obama is ending them (and starting others), because it suits him politically, not because of the nation rising up against the participation in these wars. I have been surprised to discover that not only are we usng only a professional mlitary, but we have begun to use civilian mercenaries in large numbers to fight these wars.

I still submit that Like the Roman empire, a major reason we have taken our eye off the ball is because these mercenaries and professional military are "invisible" in our political discourse.

Many in this forum self righteously declare how they would resist servng (or having their children serve) in the foreign wars being promoted by our government. You actually make MY point because you are not doing any of these drastic things to resist our wars since neither you nor your kids are required to fight them.

Regards,

George Clay

George, you do strike some point in the fact that we should be appealing to end the war to our politicians and others, not just go against the draft law. I can agree with that. My gut feeling, and I stress my gut feeling is that, if our nation does draft, given it's collapsing path, it might amount to a vain attempt at defending it.

[awar_e]

I see in this current discussion some comments that display the collective "knowledge" that different people have.
A comment comparing WW2 and other NON-declared wars, has little historic significance. Sometime AFTER WW2 came TV and during that War every family was affected in numerous ways. Most homes displayed a blue flag with white stars in their front window while others had a gold star. Consumer goods were not produced during those years and everyone was told to grow a victory garden.
I laugh a bit when I see Viet Nam being compared to WW2. I would ask, Do you know how we got into WW2 versus how and why we entered Viet Nam and Korea and all of those tin horned political wars we now engage in?
The reason that we have no protests over current wars, is that the NWO govt schools have warped the thinking of a few generations who now spend their time with TV, American Idol, The Stupor Bowl and all manner of porn and other mind rotting nonsense.

All current wars are totally started and run by pure evil, but few can recognize this.

[TZONE]

OI wrote:
I'm a little down tonight, there's a thousand ways to screw up and only one right way - makes me wonder what my chances are of being one of the ones that get it right.

Spoke my mind. What I feel currently today.

A good read of the bom is needed or prayer.

[AshleyB]

OI wrote:
I'm a little down tonight, there's a thousand ways to screw up and only one right way - makes me wonder what my chances are of being one of the ones that get it right.

Spoke my mind. What I feel currently today.

A good read of the bom is needed or prayer.

Your chances are much higher then you think... You have Jesus Christ who is looking after you and loves you more than you can imagine. He is willing to do ANYTHING and Everything to make sure you make it. You are one of the elect whether you know it or not. You won't be lost. He left the 99 to go looking for you. :ymhug:

[Tribunal]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

You don't want people being forced to fight for their country. Conscription will only destroy the military. You want people to choose to fight for their country.

What separates us from other countries is many of those in the United States military chose to serve. We want to defend the Constitution, the rights of our brothers and sisters, and our family and home. The chance of people deserting when they are needed the most is less if they chose to serve. With all the drama and politics that goes on in the military there is already plenty of negativity. Imagine how negative it will be if you force people to fight.

Viet Nam is just a small example of how bad it could be! Look at those in Iraq and Afghanistan who were conscripted to fight against the United States. The are pretty much just target practice for the US troops. Many of them deserted but were forced to turn around and confront the US by threat of being shot by their own people.

I'm telling you this is going to destroy the military. It is hard enough having to fight along side women. It is hard enough having to fight along side homosexuals. It will be almost impossible to fight along side conscripts who are planning to desert you when you need them the most.

This is crazy!

[awar_e]

It is very sad to observe the created by govt school mindsets which we see. Deserters due to conscription? You obviously know only what the schools have been teaching for the past 60 years. We seldom heard of desertion when real men led the theaters of war. Patton was a hero to his men and the nation as a whole, but history has been rewritten to obliterate that fact.
The military has been bribed by $$$ for decades to become an all volunteer force. In 1954 the pay for a private was $80 a month and after 6 months, a $4 a month clothing allowance was added. I was lucky enough to be "overseas" for 1 year, 4 months and 18 days, and collected an additional $9 a month for that.
The furor that engulfed this nation when the pay was raised to end the draft is obviously not taught in schools.
While we had a real sense of patriotism during WW 2 with a united nation, supporting the evil president which got us into that war.
Part of the reason that volunteers chose service life is the pile of promises which are held out to those who are sold the bill of goods about free health care, college tuition etc. This during a time when govt has destroyed the job market to the point that young men can not get a job that will support a family. Once they return home, most of those promises evaporate, especially the health care.

We now see the volunteers dieing by suicide more often than by enemy fire. This too is part of the plan as wars are fought to enrich those in power and attrition is one of their tools.
It has been with great sorrow that I have watched the controlling of minds over my 78 years.
"The world will little note nor long remember what is spoken" on these forums.
I wonder when those historic words were stricken from the schools?
I also wonder about the words "give me liberty or give me death?"
Perhaps the drones can now accomplish exactly that.

[Tribunal]

It is very sad to observe the created by govt school mindsets which we see. Deserters due to conscription? You obviously know only what the schools have been teaching for the past 60 years. We seldom heard of desertion when real men led the theaters of war. Patton was a hero to his men and the nation as a whole, but history has been rewritten to obliterate that fact.

Sorry! You must not be talking about me as I was not government educated. And yes, there is a much higher rate of desertion from those who are conscripted than those who volunteer to serve. Study your history. Conscripting those with the threat of death if they don't die for 'their' country doesn't instill very much patriotism.

The military has been bribed by $$$ for decades to become an all volunteer force. In 1954 the pay for a private was $80 a month and after 6 months, a $4 a month clothing allowance was added. I was lucky enough to be "overseas" for 1 year, 4 months and 18 days, and collected an additional $9 a month for that.

Who cares how long you served or how much you made!? What does this have to do with anything?

The furor that engulfed this nation when the pay was raised to end the draft is obviously not taught in schools.
While we had a real sense of patriotism during WW 2 with a united nation, supporting the evil president which got us into that war.
Part of the reason that volunteers chose service life is the pile of promises which are held out to those who are sold the bill of goods about free health care, college tuition etc. This during a time when govt has destroyed the job market to the point that young men can not get a job that will support a family. Once they return home, most of those promises evaporate, especially the health care.

I'll agree that there was a "real sense" of patriotism in WWII but that was a different generation. That generation was taught patriotism, love of the Constitution, love and support and respect for family and life. We don't have that these days with government education - as you put it.

We now see the volunteers dieing by suicide more often than by enemy fire. This too is part of the plan as wars are fought to enrich those in power and attrition is one of their tools.

Again, different generation. This impersonal generation has no coping mechanism but drugs and expensive therapy.

It has been with great sorrow that I have watched the controlling of minds over my 78 years.
"The world will little note nor long remember what is spoken" on these forums.
I wonder when those historic words were stricken from the schools?
I also wonder about the words "give me liberty or give me death?"
Perhaps the drones can now accomplish exactly that.

Sure!

[awar_e]

I do not study history as you have to. I LIVED it.

[Tribunal]

I do not study history as you have to. I LIVED it.

I see where this is going. 8-|