LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **November 6th, 2008, 8:47 am**

Thank you

Posted: **November 6th, 2008, 8:57 am**

None of you know the time the United States will be destroyed by an atom bomb. None of us will know about the great earthquake that is to come. Some of you will be buried under the ground with it and many tidal waves, hurricanes, lots and lots of rain. There will be many disasters yet to come. The cup of the Savior will overflow with the evils of this world and he will not withhold his judgments.

…

A few years from now it will begin. The Lord will pout out his wrath and you won't be able to stand the fire. You won't be able to stand still because he will shake the whole earth with an earthquake. It will cause the ground to open and many towns will be swallowed up in the earth. Those that live by the ocean won't be able to stop the tidal wave. It will fill the whole area. Where in the world can you be safe. I'm telling you, my children, don't harden your heart against the Lord's work. Be humble and become active in the Church. I am very frightened what the Lord's going to pour out upon the world. It is unbelievable what is to come, especially the fire will be like rats. The only thing that will stop you from the fear is to repent and come unto Christ. I beg of you to come and change your ways and do not fear but to be happy and live in harmony with the Lord and his teachings.

…

Most of you, when the war comes, where will you get your water from? The Lord has told us we must have our food storage. He has promised us that those that live and prepare themselves have no need to worry. If ye are prepared, ye need not fear.

…

The time is so short that they must repent and repent and repent. Let the people that you will meet in this life know that the time is so short that they must repent and come unto Christ.

…

And again, I call all of you to repent. With all my love, Iohani Wolfgramm.

Just a few highlights I pulled out.

Thank you Mullenite for sharing that with us.

I feel rebuffed because I am unclean. Isaiah 6:5 "Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips:"

In light of recent national hypocrisy now is the time for us all to individually repent and put our own houses in order.

God Bless,
Darren

Posted: **November 6th, 2008, 10:32 am**

After my prayers this morning, I opened up to the D&C and found immediately a response to those prayers. It was an awesome experience.

Preach repentance. And a return to correct principles.

That is what we are to do. Teach the gospel, and teach about liberty, because that is one of the many things we must repent of, our apostasy from the Constitution as well as morality and on and on.

Be humble, but speak boldly, the Lord will give you the words to say.

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 7:39 am**

I had the opportunity to meet Patriarch Yohani at the start of the first Persian Gulf war. In 1991, I was called into active military duty and ordered to report to Fort Knox. At the time, I lived in Boise, ID and decided to drive cross country to my post. While on this trip, I stopped in SLC to stay overnight with my mother who lived there. The night I arrived, she took me to a baptismal service at the font located in the tabernacle building.

Yohani was baptizing a shaman from one of the large US Indian tribes that night. My mother introduced us after the baptism services. He was amazing. His english was halting but eyes and his "being" were alive. I have met alot of people/dignitaries in my life - but the few moments with him were transformative. You could feel the spirit radiating from him.

The reputation of Patricah Yohani by the temple workers in the SLC temple was one of reverence and great respect. I have an uncle who was a GA (now serves in an emeritus status) and the GA's regarded him this way as well. I can understand why... I remember thinking afterward if this was the way people would have felt when they met Moroni or Joseph Smith?

Yohani walked with God.

Personally, I place a lot of weight on his words and his dreams. Thus far, it seems that his dream of the "cleansing of America" is spot on.

IMHO, I speculate that there will be a period of civil unrest in the US as the economy in the US continues to unravel during 2009 (and possibly with the US Government going bankrupt in 2009?) - which could possibly lead to UN troops being brought it to help contain the problem - hence the arrival of troops from various nations onto US soil (??) - Just my speculation of a possible means for this to happen.

In the end, we can only prepare as best as possible - and most importantly repent and seek the Lord for His divine direction, protection and deliverance.

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 8:34 am**

Now the question is what should we do about it?
There are so many things that people bring attention to and then just leave them hanging there. All knowledge and revelation has a purpose. So again I ask the question, "what should we do"? It is obvious that water will be an important thing to have on hand as will be food and other basic needs. What about the troops? How does one prepare for meeting these troops at our front door?
Along with all of the speculation I think we would be well served to post some how to's and what to do's. Just my personal opinion. And, it is not mean to bash anyone. So, how about your ideas? I would like to see other peoples ideas on how to be prepared and what to do.

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 9:50 am**

I think I will word things in a way that I hope that those who want to understand can.

There are already men among you that can use a forge, make weapons, ammunition and so on, those men know who they are and are preparing for their part.

There are also those who are preparing spiritually for their part when this occurs.

Both will be needed.

I am not speaking of myself, when I say that there has been visions about this. Many will die, the wicked, and some that are not, but those who are called are preparing and they will stop them and deal with them.

Those in Utah definitely need to have as much storage as possible to feed and care for those that will come to you as well.

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 2:15 pm**

Mullenite wrote:
The economic collapse as prophesied by Wolfgram..appears to be right on schedule!

The Wolfgram prophecy was that "in the 3rd year of the second term of the son of George Bush" the economy would collapse. This would happen just before the war and invasion by "hundreds of millions" of foreign troops.

I guess it depends on how you want to define economic collapse.

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: OCTOBER 2008
Nonfarm payroll employment fell by 240,000 in October, and the unemployment rate rose from 6.1
to 6.5 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. October's
drop in payroll employment followed declines of 127,000 in August and 284,000 in September, as revised.
Employment has fallen by 1.2 million in the first 10 months of 2008; over half of the decrease
has occurred in the past 3 months. In October, job losses continued in manufacturing, construction, and
several service-providing industries. Health care and mining continued to add jobs.

During the Great Depression unemployment was around 25%, far worse then we are seeing. the third year has come and gone and we are better off then during the Depression.

I think there are problems with this "prophecy".

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 3:03 pm**

mirkwood wrote:
Mullenite wrote:
The economic collapse as prophesied by Wolfgram..appears to be right on schedule!

The Wolfgram prophecy was that "in the 3rd year of the second term of the son of George Bush" the economy would collapse. This would happen just before the war and invasion by "hundreds of millions" of foreign troops.

I guess it depends on how you want to define economic collapse.

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: OCTOBER 2008
Nonfarm payroll employment fell by 240,000 in October, and the unemployment rate rose from 6.1
to 6.5 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. October's
drop in payroll employment followed declines of 127,000 in August and 284,000 in September, as revised.
Employment has fallen by 1.2 million in the first 10 months of 2008; over half of the decrease
has occurred in the past 3 months. In October, job losses continued in manufacturing, construction, and
several service-providing industries. Health care and mining continued to add jobs.

During the Great Depression unemployment was around 25%, far worse then we are seeing. the third year has come and gone and we are better off then during the Depression.

I think there are problems with this "prophecy".

Yeah...and inflation is only 3%

Posted: **November 22nd, 2008, 10:44 pm**

First of all, the crash of 1929 (which could correlate with 2007) didn't change things much until the end of 1930. The stock market made up much of its losses before it slowly and evenly slipped by the end of 1930. The height of the Great Depression was in 1932 (when unemployment was bottomed out at 25%). This is the year things got pretty precarious, riots were breaking out, and the real possibility of America ceasing to exist or breaking up was being bantered about). FDR was elected that year, and by 1934, unemployment fell to between 12-15% where it stayed until WWII. Point it, it took two to three years for the Great Depression to bottom after the crash (collapse). We are in the very real possibility of the next two years being similar to 1931-32.

Be patient. Misery is on its way.

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 5:13 am**

john wrote:Yohani walked with God.

Personally, I place a lot of weight on his words and his dreams. Thus far, it seems that his dream of the "cleansing of America" is spot on.

IMHO, I speculate that there will be a period of civil unrest in the US as the economy in the US continues to unravel during 2009 (and possibly with the US Government going bankrupt in 2009?) - which could possibly lead to UN troops being brought it to help contain the problem - hence the arrival of troops from various nations onto US soil (??) - Just my speculation of a possible means for this to happen.

Thank you John,

I also consider Iohani a man who walked with God. And I anticipate this revelation to go as stated, we as a nation and as communities of LDS have earned this cleansing, and I believe it is coming sooner rather than later.

john wrote:In the end, we can only prepare as best as possible - and most importantly repent and seek the Lord for His divine direction, protection and deliverance.

One other thing is preparing to be the Elders who will step forward to save the Constitution. And don't forget to look forward to the Zion community on the other side of the cleansing.

God Bless,
Darren

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 7:24 am**

It seems like to me that in all of these sorts of discussions, time and timing is the biggest wild card.

The other day I was listening to an interview of a economist on the radio. Back in July when crude oil was $140/bbl, and plenty of people were predicting that it would go to $200, this economist had predicted that we would see $50 oil within two years.

The interviewer was giving him a hard time because we're seeing $50 oil in just six months. The economist laughed and said that he had broken a very cardinal rule -- never put numbers and dates (times frames) together.

Granted, revelation is certainly different, but it almost seems like the same principal applies.

If there is one variable in many revelations that seems somewhat unclear to us mortals, it is time and timing.

Based on a myriad of revelations, etc., we have a pretty good idea of what is ultimately going to happen. We just don't know when.

We, like many before us, all want very badly to know when, but for whatever reason it seems to be the Lord's will that that element not be completely crystal clear to us.

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 9:01 am**

mirkwood wrote:
I think there are problems with this "prophecy".

None at all that I see. In Aug we had our Stake Conference and the GA told us that 3 senior apostles told him to tell us that the portent of stormy weather Pres. Hinckley prophesied of is now here. It might be a good idea to read that talk he gave 10 yrs ago. Look for the context the "portent of stormy weather" comment was given in. The Wolfgram prophecy is spot on.

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 9:39 am**

I believe the economy has begun to collape and the fact that there isnt much of any honest left in the fraudulent system, in that sense it has allready collapsed.

It could be interpreted in many ways but It seems acurate from my perspective.

-Paul

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 11:38 am**

mirkwood wrote: I guess it depends on how you want to define economic collapse.

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: OCTOBER 2008
Nonfarm payroll employment fell by 240,000 in October, and the unemployment rate rose from 6.1
to 6.5 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. October's
drop in payroll employment followed declines of 127,000 in August and 284,000 in September, as revised.
Employment has fallen by 1.2 million in the first 10 months of 2008; over half of the decrease
has occurred in the past 3 months. In October, job losses continued in manufacturing, construction, and
several service-providing industries. Health care and mining continued to add jobs.

During the Great Depression unemployment was around 25%, far worse then we are seeing. the third year has come and gone and we are better off then during the Depression.

I think there are problems with this "prophecy".

There are no problems with the prophecy, but I guess it depends on who you choose to believe: a man of the Lord or the government.

You see, the government plays with various economic statistics, and unemployment is one of them. One of the games they play is they only count those receiving unemployment benefits, not those who have given up because they've been unemployed for so long (and no longer receive benefits). Some estimate the true figure for unemployment is around 14%. (Check out shadowstats.com for more info, like here: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data.)

The government does the same thing with inflation, removing unimportant little things like energy and food costs from their calculations, as well as other manipulations.

It's not in the government's interest for us to understand exactly how bad things are. But if you're paying attention, you know where things are at. I like this forum because many here know where it's at.

Anyway, to get back to the more the theme of the thread, I'm copying the text about the Patriarch for other's to read. Truly good stuff. Thanks for all those who shared - it will go to good use. I've been working on getting my house in order this year as well. As bad as the last 3 months have been, we ain't seen nothing yet. I hope people aren't being lulled to sleep by the soothing words and lies of the government and their flaks.

It's coming. Can't you feel it?

Posted: **November 23rd, 2008, 12:57 pm**

gruden wrote:
mirkwood wrote: I guess it depends on how you want to define economic collapse.

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: OCTOBER 2008
Nonfarm payroll employment fell by 240,000 in October, and the unemployment rate rose from 6.1
to 6.5 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. October's
drop in payroll employment followed declines of 127,000 in August and 284,000 in September, as revised.
Employment has fallen by 1.2 million in the first 10 months of 2008; over half of the decrease
has occurred in the past 3 months. In October, job losses continued in manufacturing, construction, and
several service-providing industries. Health care and mining continued to add jobs.

During the Great Depression unemployment was around 25%, far worse then we are seeing. the third year has come and gone and we are better off then during the Depression.

I think there are problems with this "prophecy".
There are no problems with the prophecy, but I guess it depends on who you choose to believe: a man of the Lord or the government.

You see, the government plays with various economic statistics, and unemployment is one of them. One of the games they play is they only count those receiving unemployment benefits, not those who have given up because they've been unemployed for so long (and no longer receive benefits). Some estimate the true figure for unemployment is around 14%. (Check out shadowstats.com for more info, like here: http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data.)

The government does the same thing with inflation, removing unimportant little things like energy and food costs from their calculations, as well as other manipulations.

It's not in the government's interest for us to understand exactly how bad things are. But if you're paying attention, you know where things are at. I like this forum because many here know where it's at.

Anyway, to get back to the more the theme of the thread, I'm copying the text about the Patriarch for other's to read. Truly good stuff. Thanks for all those who shared - it will go to good use. I've been working on getting my house in order this year as well. As bad as the last 3 months have been, we ain't seen nothing yet. I hope people aren't being lulled to sleep by the soothing words and lies of the government and their flaks.

It's coming. Can't you feel it?

In the words of Ace Ventura..."Can you feel that, huh?!"

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 12:43 pm**

Sorry gang, but the economy didn't crash last year...you know, the THIRD year of the second term. That would be last year, not this year.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 1:15 pm**

You're so technical

If you look at the numbers alone 2008 is the 3rd yr. (4yr term ends in '09). The Bush 2nd term took effect Jan. of 2005 and ends Jan of 2009. Depends on how you look at it and we don't know how he saw it to define the 3rd yr.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 1:39 pm**

Depends on how you look at it and we don't know how he saw it to define the 3rd yr.

I'm devastated. I thought the Shadow knew everything.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 2:22 pm**

Sorry Bark, when I said "we" I was referring to you doubters as I lowered myself to your position

. Doesn't really matter anyway, the housing bubble was bursting in 2007. Either way the 3rd yr wasn't good and indeed was collapsing.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 2:33 pm**

mirkwood wrote:Sorry gang, but the economy didn't crash last year...you know, the THIRD year of the second term. That would be last year, not this year.

And somewhere it gets lost that, in 1988, one man knew it would happen when the son of then-President Bush was in the White House. Who knew that then? Who was saying anything about Bush Jr. as future POTUS in 1988? But let's forget that. The numbers are there if you want to look at them. The foundation of the financial system was gone last year, it was just waiting for the floor to give way, which it is in the process of doing so now. Perhaps we could also say he was no prophet because the Tongan islands weren't damaged by tidal waves. I try to look at the bigger picture as far as my small mind is capable.

When I read about men like Patriarch Wolfgramm I read of a man who talked with God and a worker of miracles. I'd like to be like that.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 3:05 pm**

Sorry Bark, when I said "we" I was referring to you doubters as I lowered myself to your position

Thanks my Man. I feel much better now.

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 4:34 pm**

mirkwood wrote:Sorry gang, but the economy didn't crash last year...you know, the THIRD year of the second term. That would be last year, not this year.

Where did you get that it was the "third year of the second term" ?
I always read it was the "last year of the second term"

And has the economy not crashed yet?...do we need a "big kaboom" to say" ok...now the economy has crashed! "

Questions and thoughts my friends...questions and thoughts

Posted: **November 24th, 2008, 11:28 pm**

This sounds like economic collapse to me.

"DK Matai, chairman of the ATCA Open has written a very interesting article about global shipping of bulk cargo and how it has come to a halt because of the lack of letters of credit.

Just five months ago it cost about $234,000 to rent a 170,000 tonne Capesize bulk carrier. Now it is less than $5,000.

That means that globalization has stopped dead in its tracks."

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Foremski/?p=332

Posted: **November 25th, 2008, 12:04 am**

Okay, for everyone who is still interested, here is the information:

You can order the FIRST book, "Iohanni Wolfgramm, Man of Faith and Vision", (a beautiful hardbound book), by sending a check to:

Patricia Samples
c/o Tisina Gerber
9183 Laura Anne Way
Sandy, Ut 84094

The book is large and hardbound and is $40, which covers the cost of shipping and handling, so it's a pretty good price.

If you have questions you can also contact Tisina's daughter, Patricia, at [email protected]

There are only 300 books being printed, so this might be something you won't want to put off doing!

This book would make a wonderful Christmas present, and any profits made from the sales will be used to print the second book (which will be a much larger printing), so your hard earned cash will be going towards a good cause AND you'll have a beautiful book besides!

Posted: **November 25th, 2008, 6:05 am**

Mullenite wrote:Economy Wolfgram...right on schedule
The economic collapse as prophesied by Wolfgram..appears to be right on schedule!

The Wolfgram prophecy was that "in the 3rd year of the second term of the son of George Bush" the economy would collapse. This would happen just before the war and invasion by "hundreds of millions" of foreign troops.

Allan South who had received this blessing where in brother Wolfgram had mentioned the event... and then who had asked brother Wolfgram some details about it. He was very clear on every point.

However, that brings up the question...What does it mean that the economy would collapse? Does it mean the stock market? Does it mean a depression with lots of people out of work? I just don't know, and so I have basically come to the simple conclusion that something bad will happen to the economy in 2008...causing major problems.

A bad economy generally translates sooner or later into a lot of people out of work. this fits exactly with the warnings by the leaders of the Church, and especially President Hinckley (1998) about getting out of debt and preparing for hard times.

I have been expecting something or some things to happen to the economy. Well, there have been several things that have, or should have greatly affected the economy...the biggest cutting interest rates by the Feds. Also, the upswing in oil prices( $109.00 Barrel) and other prices.

During the last couple of years, one of the few things that has kept the economy going is the terrific housing boom. Though the speculation on property has been tremendous during the last few years. Many experts have predicted that the bubble as burst. The combination of interest rates cuts, high energy costs (gas, electricity, etc.) tremendous consumer debt, and other factors have translated into a downturn in many other economic sectors.

For example, another big economic indicator is new car sales. Right now... car sales are way down...and still dropping. the result is Ford, GMC and others are dropping 70,000+ jobs.

I believe the economic collapse prophesied by Wolfgram is right on schedule

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