sixth seal wrote:JulesGP wrote:Nephi294 wrote:So you're going to give your tithing directly to the poor instead of paying into the tithing fund which you should do and then you're going to lie about being a full tithe payer with a straight face.....WOW! And now that you admit you're going to lie you just lost all credibilty here on the forum. Oh and by the way here's a scripture for ya.( 2 Nephi 9:34) "Wo unto the liar, for he (or She) shall be thrust down to hell." Good luck with that :ymparty:
Nephi294, I'm going to leave your comment and tell you publicly that this is totally inappropriate. Please make this your last barrage of name-calling and mocking on the forum.
Please can we all keep this thread more peaceful so I don't have to start handing out more warnings
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Incidentally, it is not for ANY man (including a bishop) to decide that a man is a liar if he offers charity to the poor as Christ did, and calls that his tithes to the Lord. Our payment of tithing and whether or not we pay a full tithe is between the individual and the Lord. If a bishop or stake pres asks for a "tithing return" (like a tax return) during a recommend interview or tithing settlement, it is completely inappropriate. I will tell you that if all in the church paid tithes according to the Spirit, then the Savior might openly walk among us today.
There was absolutely nothing wrong or inappropriate about anything Nephi294 said. He should have every right to call things as he sees them and call a spade a spade. He is a defender of the Church. He is passionate about it. I thought that was a good thing. Jules, it is you who comes off looking judgemental with your post. And by the way, I pay my tithing to the Church in the appropriate category marked "tithing" as we are instructed because that is what the Spirit leads me to do. Keep up the good fight Nephi294. Don't let the mods bully you.
Interesting you got that from Jules post. But you are right about one thing, she can be a bit of a bully at times! :ymdevil: She has warned me multiple times. 8-| But Judgmental? bwahahahaha, come on man. You couldn't be more wrong. I think Jules post went completely over your head. Go back and read it again slowly. Just my opinion. And I agree 100% with Jules.
Anyone who wants to pay their tithing to the church because they are instructed to by all means, knock your self out. I have no problem with that. I respect those who do. But talk about being compelled in all things. Sometimes I wonder if there is any common sense in these last days.
Not sure why do people act as if the spirit would never go against the letter of the law or in this case never say anything but give your money to the church because you are commanded to. The law of tithing is the lower law. If we all listened and followed the spirit there would be no tithing at all. (The Law of Consecration) That's because all things are Gods.
Here on LDSFF I read all the time what the root cause of all our problems are. Something like it's because we don't know the constitution enough, or we don't understand secret combinations, and on and on. But the root cause of all our woes is we as a society have forgotten who our God is and that all things belong to him. Go feed a poor family instead of paying your tithing and take it to the lord and see if he gets upset with you for feeding the hungry or clothing the naked. Your Bishop might not like it, but not the Lord if you are living temple covenants and listening to the spirit doing what he would have one do.. If you are in tune with the spirit, living your temple covenants than everything you have is really the Lords anyway and you treat it as such.
King Benjamin said it perfectly;
15 ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another.
16 And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.
17 Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just—
18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.
19 For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.
26 And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you—that is, for the sake of retaining a remission of your sins from day to day, that ye may walk guiltless before God—I would that ye should impart of your substance to the poor, every man according to that which he hath, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally, according to their wants.
27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.
Lets say you live pay check to pay check (like me) and you were on your way to pay tithing with every cent you have so you can say you followed the law, you run into a strange fellow who tells you he is hungry and need foods? Would you turn this strange fellow down just to obey the letter of the law? What if that person happened to be the Savior?
Here is the Savior;
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his aright hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I pay my tithes to the Lord. I do the best to my ability to do what the Lord would have me do. I have a strong testimony of tithing. But as strange as this sounds, when I don't pay my tithes to the church and an opportunity arises to give it instead to someone in need, that is when I see firsthand the blessing coming down from heaven. That's when I feel the spirit the most and feel good about myself. Not because I didn't pay my tithing, but because I did what the Lord would have me do.
Jules never said the current tithing is wrong, but it is the lower law. And Jules is so right when she said; "Our payment of tithing and whether or not we pay a full tithe is between the individual and the Lord."
I have no problem with someone who pays the church a full tithe. I respect those who really sacrifice to do so. I also have no problem with someone who chooses to do other things with their tithes if the spirit directs them. Say like giving it to someone in dire straits or who stands in need of help. Either way, It's between you and the Lord. Besides, whom am I to judge a brother? Especially if it is helping Gods children. I see the judgement coming from those who think they know whats best for other people assuming they know what the spirit is not telling them.
I think Jules deserves an apology.
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