LDS Freedom Forum

Did you ever ask for help?

coachmarc wrote:These every day struggles that we face have been faced by the Lord's people since the beginning of time, whether under the rule of kings, tyrants, taskmasters or presidents. it's not easy, but all we can do is take a lesson from the Book of Mormon. During Limhi's reign, when the people repented and cried to the Lord silently, He rescued them from bondage. Another time they defended their liberty among the armies of Captains Helaman and Moroni. We are not yet as Job. We pay our tithing not to be free from man but to become free with God.

Nephi294 wrote:Unlike you I trust the Brethren.

Many critics of the downtown project say tithing was used but cannot produce any fact or proof that the Church did.

Nobody is worshipping any idols. In your logic anybody that visits a store is worshipping mammon right. I don't believe it.

Is there room for improvement? Of course. Church leaders are always encouraging us to do better to help people around us.

Now for the false gods. When we put our worldly possessions and entertainment before the work of the Lord then we are guilty of worshipping a false god!

Nephi294 wrote:Pres Hinckley's talk was quite Prophetic!

paper face wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:Unlike you I trust the Brethren.

That's fine.

Many critics of the downtown project say tithing was used but cannot produce any fact or proof that the Church did.

If the tithing is invested, and there is ample evidence that it is, then there is a chance that the Church is equivocating on what the source of those funds is. There was no official prophetic command to privatize the books. They should open them up to quiet their critics, if in fact tithing monies aren't tied up in this expenditure.

Nobody is worshipping any idols. In your logic anybody that visits a store is worshipping mammon right. I don't believe it.

When you say "nobody", who exactly are you talking about? Your comment ignores decades of bulimia, anorexia, and plastic surgery. Women make themselves "one" with this cult with their very bodies... with cuts. The price, as always, is blood. Mothers, by virtue of their participation, coax their daughters to follow them into this blatant idol worship as a matter of tradition. If you don't see it or believe it, then you are blind as a bat.

I didn't come up with this idea. Isaiah and Nephi described us very succinctly. Moroni saw our day. It's all right there in the quad you carry to church every Sunday.

Is there room for improvement? Of course. Church leaders are always encouraging us to do better to help people around us.

If they have (at least) 1.5 b to drop on a mall, then they have plenty to continue with what they are up to. I think I am going to follow AussieO's example and begin giving my tithing directly to the poor. And when they ask me if I am a full tithe payer? I am going to say "yes" with a straight face. God can toss me to hell for it if he so pleases.

Now for the false gods. When we put our worldly possessions and entertainment before the work of the Lord then we are guilty of worshipping a false god!

The Lord can see your heart just as he can see mine. I agree that idolatry comes down to priorities. But investing sacred funds (all monies that belong to the church are sacred, regardless of whether they are direct tithing) so as to collect rent from those who sell Gucci is far more complex an issue than you suggest.

High fashion isn't Leatherman, or John Deer. High fashion is concerned with war, terror, fascism, elitism, flaunt, and an all out assault on the divinity of womanhood and motherhood. It attacks the very heart of the well-being of families, every single example of which revolves around mothers.

Collecting rent from Tiffany's, Porsche, Bebe, Forever 21, Etc., makes the Church complicit with that cult. It feeds directly into the culture that the Book of Mormon fights against. It shows just how far away from the covenant contained in Section 84 our corporation actually is.

Perhaps Moroni's problem with costly apparel extends merely to consumers and not those organizations that profit from its sale, and that Christ will gladly take that blood money that feeds off of an entire culture of girls and women starving themselves, puking, and getting plastic surgery just so that they can resemble celebrities and models that they see in high fashion. Maybe it's worth the value of contributing to a cult that imperils the self esteem of a few more girls so that those construction crews can collect those checks during the recession. A few daughters are a small price to pay when Mammon is providing paychecks for families. Or should I say Moloch?

AussieOi wrote:Nephi247.
Do you have aspergers by any chance?
I'm not trying to be a smartly pants....just understand your intensity.

paper face wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:Unlike you I trust the Brethren.

That's fine.

Many critics of the downtown project say tithing was used but cannot produce any fact or proof that the Church did.

If the tithing is invested, and there is ample evidence that it is, then there is a chance that the Church is equivocating on what the source of those funds is. There was no official prophetic command to privatize the books. They should open them up to quiet their critics, if in fact tithing monies aren't tied up in this expenditure.

Nobody is worshipping any idols. In your logic anybody that visits a store is worshipping mammon right. I don't believe it.

When you say "nobody", who exactly are you talking about? Your comment ignores decades of bulimia, anorexia, and plastic surgery. Women make themselves "one" with this cult with their very bodies... with cuts. The price, as always, is blood. Mothers, by virtue of their participation, coax their daughters to follow them into this blatant idol worship as a matter of tradition. If you don't see it or believe it, then you are blind as a bat.

I didn't come up with this idea. Isaiah and Nephi described us very succinctly. Moroni saw our day. It's all right there in the quad you carry to church every Sunday.

Is there room for improvement? Of course. Church leaders are always encouraging us to do better to help people around us.

If they have (at least) 1.5 b to drop on a mall, then they have plenty to continue with what they are up to. I think I am going to follow AussieO's example and begin giving my tithing directly to the poor. And when they ask me if I am a full tithe payer? I am going to say "yes" with a straight face. God can toss me to hell for it if he so pleases.

Now for the false gods. When we put our worldly possessions and entertainment before the work of the Lord then we are guilty of worshipping a false god!

The Lord can see your heart just as he can see mine. I agree that idolatry comes down to priorities. But investing sacred funds (all monies that belong to the church are sacred, regardless of whether they are direct tithing) so as to collect rent from those who sell Gucci is far more complex an issue than you suggest.

High fashion isn't Leatherman, or John Deer. High fashion is concerned with war, terror, fascism, elitism, flaunt, and an all out assault on the divinity of womanhood and motherhood. It attacks the very heart of the well-being of families, every single example of which revolves around mothers.

Collecting rent from Tiffany's, Porsche, Bebe, Forever 21, Etc., makes the Church complicit with that cult. It feeds directly into the culture that the Book of Mormon fights against. It shows just how far away from the covenant contained in Section 84 our corporation actually is.

Nephi294 wrote:And now that you admit you're going to lie you just lost all credibilty here on the forum. Oh and by the way here's a scripture for ya.( 2 Nephi 9:34) "Wo unto the liar, for he (or She) shall be thrust down to hell." Good luck with that :ymparty:

Nephi294 wrote:So you're going to give your tithing directly to the poor instead of paying into the tithing fund which you should do and then you're going to lie about being a full tithe payer with a straight face.....WOW! And now that you admit you're going to lie you just lost all credibilty here on the forum. Oh and by the way here's a scripture for ya.( 2 Nephi 9:34) "Wo unto the liar, for he (or She) shall be thrust down to hell." Good luck with that :ymparty:

James 2: 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Nephi294 wrote:

AussieOi wrote:Nephi247.
Do you have aspergers by any chance?
I'm not trying to be a smartly pants....just understand your intensity.

Aussie,

First: I don't have Aspergers but thanks for your concern.

Second: My intensity comes from my testimony and the covenants that I have made and intend to keep!

Third: Before you submit your post you should spell check

Isaiah 29: 20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:

21 That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.

eric wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:

AussieOi wrote:Nephi247.
Do you have aspergers by any chance?
I'm not trying to be a smartly pants....just understand your intensity.

Aussie,

First: I don't have Aspergers but thanks for your concern.

Second: My intensity comes from my testimony and the covenants that I have made and intend to keep!

Third: Before you submit your post you should spell check

LOL - Nephi294, I get your intensity based on your love of the gospel, as well and your love of good spelling. I am prone to judge someone based on whether or not their spelling is impeccable - but I do give plenty of leeway for foreigners......

Hang in there, Brother. I have your back in this fight! I just have not jumped in the ring, yet..... )

eric wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:

AussieOi wrote:Nephi247.
Do you have aspergers by any chance?
I'm not trying to be a smartly pants....just understand your intensity.

Aussie,

First: I don't have Aspergers but thanks for your concern.

Second: My intensity comes from my testimony and the covenants that I have made and intend to keep!

Third: Before you submit your post you should spell check

LOL - Nephi294, I get your intensity based on your love of the gospel, as well and your love of good spelling. I am prone to judge someone based on whether or not their spelling is impeccable - but I do give plenty of leeway for foreigners......

Hang in there, Brother. I have your back in this fight! I just have not jumped in the ring, yet..... )

JulesGP wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:So you're going to give your tithing directly to the poor instead of paying into the tithing fund which you should do and then you're going to lie about being a full tithe payer with a straight face.....WOW! And now that you admit you're going to lie you just lost all credibilty here on the forum. Oh and by the way here's a scripture for ya.( 2 Nephi 9:34) "Wo unto the liar, for he (or She) shall be thrust down to hell." Good luck with that :ymparty:

Nephi294, I'm going to leave your comment and tell you publicly that this is totally inappropriate. Please make this your last barrage of name-calling and mocking on the forum.

Please can we all keep this thread more peaceful so I don't have to start handing out more warnings .

Incidentally, it is not for ANY man (including a bishop) to decide that a man is a liar if he offers charity to the poor as Christ did, and calls that his tithes to the Lord. Our payment of tithing and whether or not we pay a full tithe is between the individual and the Lord. If a bishop or stake pres asks for a "tithing return" (like a tax return) during a recommend interview or tithing settlement, it is completely inappropriate. I will tell you that if all in the church paid tithes according to the Spirit, then the Savior might openly walk among us today.

JulesGP wrote:

Nephi294 wrote:So you're going to give your tithing directly to the poor instead of paying into the tithing fund which you should do and then you're going to lie about being a full tithe payer with a straight face.....WOW! And now that you admit you're going to lie you just lost all credibilty here on the forum. Oh and by the way here's a scripture for ya.( 2 Nephi 9:34) "Wo unto the liar, for he (or She) shall be thrust down to hell." Good luck with that :ymparty:

Nephi294, I'm going to leave your comment and tell you publicly that this is totally inappropriate. Please make this your last barrage of name-calling and mocking on the forum.

Please can we all keep this thread more peaceful so I don't have to start handing out more warnings .

Incidentally, it is not for ANY man (including a bishop) to decide that a man is a liar if he offers charity to the poor as Christ did, and calls that his tithes to the Lord. Our payment of tithing and whether or not we pay a full tithe is between the individual and the Lord. If a bishop or stake pres asks for a "tithing return" (like a tax return) during a recommend interview or tithing settlement, it is completely inappropriate. I will tell you that if all in the church paid tithes according to the Spirit, then the Savior might openly walk among us today.

Sixth seal wrote:There was absolutely nothing wrong or inappropriate about anything Nephi294 said. He should have every right to call things as he sees them and call a spade a spade. He is a defender of the Church. He is passionate about it. I thought that was a good thing. Jules, it is you who comes off looking petty and judgemental with your post. And by the way, I pay my tithing to the Church in the appropriate category marked "tithing" as we are instructed because that is what the Spirit leads me to do. Keep up the good fight Nephi294. Don't let the mods bully you.