Flagg, how did you miss this???

[Col. Flagg]

I think you misread Bob's statement about "couldn't afford"....better check it again. There are stores there that I have shopped in before, also.

http://thewaterproject.org/digging-well ... -works.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Col. Flagg]

Save it. =; Apples and oranges buddy.

[Seek the Truth]

Yeah not really.

[Mark]

Flagg, why are you not considering the profits the Churches business arm will make renting space to retailers as money well spent??

Because we're a church and not a for-profit Babylonian corporation!

Flagg, not a single penny of YOUR precious tithing money went into building that mall (I don't consider tithing I pay my money, it's my Lord's money).

Bob, where did the funds for the investments that generated the interest income come from? Hint: ask N. Eldon Tanner (you'll have to wait until you pass away to speak with him). He began investing tithing funds in 1963 as a way for the church to make money.

I'm very happy the Church has a business arm, I don't understand why you are not!

I'm all for Deseret Industries, Seagull Book, employment services, etc., (small businesses/services that exist to assist low income members, those in need of employment or those seeking additional church materials, resources or items to promote the faith, but please tell me how City Creek serves the members of the church or the poor and needy? If you can't see the difference between the D.I., Seagull Book and City Creek Mall, then I don't know what to say? :ymblushing:

That mall is paid for, earning big profits by renting space to big and small retailers. Just where do you think those profits go? Helping people after disasters? Building new temples and chapels, funding DI's? Does the Parable of the Talents mean anything to you? The Parable means a lot to me, and to Our Lord's Prophets, but not you? Why is that???

That mall is not earning big profits Bob... have you not heard the dismal Christmas sales numbers? Have you not heard about all the reports of people going to City Creek but seeing few actually purchasing anything? One Rolex watch in the Rolex store is priced at an amount that would feed 1,000 homeless or starving people for days. I wouldn't be talking about parables Bob when you clearly don't even understand what it means to be a true disciple of Christ. If you see no problem with City Creek, then you need to re-evaluate your relationship with the Lord and our Savior.

I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim.

Bob, the place belongs in Beverly Hills, CA for crying out loud... and you couldn't afford anything but it's not for rich people??? #-o

There were many older cars and pickups in the parking lot, in fact Flagg, I don't remember seeing a single Lexus! But the interior was very nice, probably the very reason "why" all the big and small retailers are there, paying for all those big leases. A beautiful mall making a beautiful city, the HQ of the True Church, more beautiful. Money well spent, with a great return on investment, to be spent where Our Lord directs his Prophets to use it!

I agree... it is impressive and a sight to behold... but that's the problem... why are we trying to impress Babylon while robbing the poor? Is that was Christ would have us do?

Bob... Matthew 6:24.

What a self righteous condemnatory attack on Bob and his faith! You accuse Bob of not understanding what it means to be a true disciple of Christ and dare to question his personal relationship with The Lord because he does not agree with your endless rants against anything and everything you don't personally agree with that the church and the Brethren have done in the financial arm of the kingdom? Wow!

[Seek the Truth]

Personally I get a chuckle out of it.

[Original_Intent]

Bob: I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim.

Flagg:Bob, the place belongs in Beverly Hills, CA for crying out loud... and you couldn't afford anything but it's not for rich people???

Col, you need to work on the reading comprehension.

[bobhenstra]

Or I need to write in a 3rd grade format!

[Col. Flagg]

Flagg, why are you not considering the profits the Churches business arm will make renting space to retailers as money well spent??

Because we're a church and not a for-profit Babylonian corporation!

Flagg, not a single penny of YOUR precious tithing money went into building that mall (I don't consider tithing I pay my money, it's my Lord's money).

Bob, where did the funds for the investments that generated the interest income come from? Hint: ask N. Eldon Tanner (you'll have to wait until you pass away to speak with him). He began investing tithing funds in 1963 as a way for the church to make money.

I'm very happy the Church has a business arm, I don't understand why you are not!

I'm all for Deseret Industries, Seagull Book, employment services, etc., (small businesses/services that exist to assist low income members, those in need of employment or those seeking additional church materials, resources or items to promote the faith, but please tell me how City Creek serves the members of the church or the poor and needy? If you can't see the difference between the D.I., Seagull Book and City Creek Mall, then I don't know what to say? :ymblushing:

That mall is paid for, earning big profits by renting space to big and small retailers. Just where do you think those profits go? Helping people after disasters? Building new temples and chapels, funding DI's? Does the Parable of the Talents mean anything to you? The Parable means a lot to me, and to Our Lord's Prophets, but not you? Why is that???

That mall is not earning big profits Bob... have you not heard the dismal Christmas sales numbers? Have you not heard about all the reports of people going to City Creek but seeing few actually purchasing anything? One Rolex watch in the Rolex store is priced at an amount that would feed 1,000 homeless or starving people for days. I wouldn't be talking about parables Bob when you clearly don't even understand what it means to be a true disciple of Christ. If you see no problem with City Creek, then you need to re-evaluate your relationship with the Lord and our Savior.

I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim.

Bob, the place belongs in Beverly Hills, CA for crying out loud! #-o

There were many older cars and pickups in the parking lot, in fact Flagg, I don't remember seeing a single Lexus! But the interior was very nice, probably the very reason "why" all the big and small retailers are there, paying for all those big leases. A beautiful mall making a beautiful city, the HQ of the True Church, more beautiful. Money well spent, with a great return on investment, to be spent where Our Lord directs his Prophets to use it!

I agree... it is impressive and a sight to behold... but that's the problem... why are we trying to impress Babylon while robbing the poor? Is that was Christ would have us do?

Bob... Matthew 6:24.

What a self righteous condemnatory attack on Bob and his faith! You accuse Bob of not understanding what it means to be a true disciple of Christ and dare to question his personal relationship with The Lord because he does not agree with your endless rants against anything and everything you don't personally agree with that the church and the Brethren have done in the financial arm of the kingdom? Wow!

Maybe I was a little out of line with my accusatory remarks towards Bob and you are correct Mark, I have no right to judge Bob's relationship with the Lord and our Savior, but seriously, any true Latter-Day Saint with charity in their heart cannot in their right mind support a multi-billion dollar mall that caters to the rich in society and furthermore, it wreaks of hypocrisy when it comes to the 4th of the 4-fold mission of the church! Mark, how many times do we need to post the scriptures that condemn trying to impress the world with image, pride, vanity, vain ambition, fine apparel and sanctuaries and robbing the poor, all of which City Creek encompasses???

[Seek the Truth]

[Col. Flagg]

Bob: I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim.

Flagg:Bob, the place belongs in Beverly Hills, CA for crying out loud... and you couldn't afford anything but it's not for rich people???

Col, you need to work on the reading comprehension.

No, it's called not reading the whole post - I was in a hurry and just skimmed what Bob had written. #-o I went back and edited the remark so that the 'afford' part is gone. #-o

[Col. Flagg]

[HeirofNumenor]

Since no tithing was used, why do you care if people criticize it? Investment income used for further investment. Standard business decisions are subject to objection without a persons faithfulness being called into question. Since these are "non-sacred funds" in the first place(allegedly), stop pulling the faith card or lack thereof for anyone who may question it.

Of course the argument could be made that the original investment monies came from somewhere, ahem, namely tithing, but I digress.

Actually very little of the comments from anti-mall peeps have to do with sales numbers, profit, occupancy rates, ROI, smart business decision, etc. - as you'd expect if we were only evaluating it as a standard business decision here.

Unfortunately, nearly EVERY anti-mall comment comes down to saying the Church (with it's apostles as complicit since they approved the Mall) is oppressing the poor, juxtaposing scriptures about such, with photos of the Prophet cutting ribbons, etc...with these attacks now being extended to the Conference Center as "The Great and Spacious Building", which Center is NOT a business project....

Likewise, nearly every person making this anti-mall comments, also has some other complaints against the Church, it's leaders, or its members as whole...and from nearly every person, I have seen these other complaints coming BEFORE the Mall was built - or even mentioned on this forum.

Serious axes to grind...

[Original_Intent]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but skimming a post and responding to what you THOUGHT you read is exactly what lacking reading comprehension is about.

It also seems that this post which started out as a dig on Ron Paul (and a pot shot at supporters - by the person who promised a Romney victory, btw - and had scriptural proof that it was destined) has spiralled into yet another CCM fiasco which I'm afraid is gonna get Col banned again. I think Col maybe has an unhealthy desire to be banned from time to time....

[HeirofNumenor]

I think Col maybe has an unhealthy desire to be banned from time to time....

Maybe. Perhaps Fiannan should pull out his knowledge of Freud, Jung, et al. and analyze the dear Col..... :-B =))

[HeirofNumenor]

It also seems that this post which started out as a dig on Ron Paul

Gotta disagree about THIS part... I think Bob only mentioned the Col because it was on the Daily Paul, figuring Col would read it, and surprised Col had not posted about the issue - but the article has NOTHING to do with Ron Paul...

[InfoWarrior82]

In a Ron Paul (NOT FOUNDING FATHERS) Free Market, it would take no time for Satan's financial empire to rise to the top.

Except that's not the reality of the world, is it? How did the LDG's rise to the top? In an actual free market? Nope.

Ron Paul's free market is different than the founding father's free market? How? No corporation or private bank would be able to ride the chaos and uncertainty of an actual free market. Kinda why they had to make the market UNfree through government regulation. What Ron Paul is proposing will bring down that structure. How can it not?

[HeirofNumenor]

In a Ron Paul (NOT FOUNDING FATHERS) Free Market, it would take no time for Satan's financial empire to rise to the top.

Except that's not the reality of the world, is it? How did the LDG's rise to the top? In an actual free market? Nope.

GUYS - in ANYTHING short of a City of Zion setting (Enoch or 4th Nephi), - there is NO such thing as a purely free market, nor without Satan's peeps rising to the top...

[InfoWarrior82]

In a Ron Paul (NOT FOUNDING FATHERS) Free Market, it would take no time for Satan's financial empire to rise to the top.

Except that's not the reality of the world, is it? How did the LDG's rise to the top? In an actual free market? Nope.

GUYS - in ANYTHING short of a City of Zion setting (Enoch or 4th Nephi), - there is NO such thing as a purely free market, nor without Satan's peeps rising to the top...

This is true. We're not speculating on solutions. We're speculating on why Ron Paul is wrong or right.

[HeirofNumenor]

This is true. We're not speculating on solutions. We're speculating on why Ron Paul is wrong or right.

Very well.

[bobhenstra]

It also seems that this post which started out as a dig on Ron Paul

Gotta disagree about THIS part... I think Bob only mentioned the Col because it was on the Daily Paul, figuring Col would read it, and surprised Col had not posted about the issue - but the article has NOTHING to do with Ron Paul...

I made no dig at Paul nor his supporters. Said nothing about Paul until Flagg jumped on me! OI, you just skimming too?
You Paul supporters got your way, you defeated Romney! Why so touchy? It is what it is now, good luck with your choice!

Bob

[Col. Flagg]

Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but skimming a post and responding to what you THOUGHT you read is exactly what lacking reading comprehension is about.

It also seems that this post which started out as a dig on Ron Paul (and a pot shot at supporters - by the person who promised a Romney victory, btw - and had scriptural proof that it was destined) has spiralled into yet another CCM fiasco which I'm afraid is gonna get Col banned again. I think Col maybe has an unhealthy desire to be banned from time to time....

You would be mistaken there OI - I'm just passionate about defending what I believe and know is right and am as equally passionate about calling out wrong when I see it.

[Col. Flagg]

I made no dig at Paul nor his supporters. Said nothing about Paul until Flagg jumped on me! OI, you just skimming too?
You Paul supporters got your way, you defeated Romney! Why so touchy? It is what it is now, good luck with your choice!

Bob

Bob, our support of Ron was always about voting for the best man for the job based on principles and the Constitution and sorry to say, Mitt just didn't measure up the way Ron did (not even close) - we weren't supporting Ron to stop Romney. #-o

[Seek the Truth]

If you accept one you'd have to accept the other.

[ajax]

Since no tithing was used, why do you care if people criticize it? Investment income used for further investment. Standard business decisions are subject to objection without a persons faithfulness being called into question. Since these are "non-sacred funds" in the first place(allegedly), stop pulling the faith card or lack thereof for anyone who may question it.

Of course the argument could be made that the original investment monies came from somewhere, ahem, namely tithing, but I digress.

Actually very little of the comments from anti-mall peeps have to do with sales numbers, profit, occupancy rates, ROI, smart business decision, etc. - as you'd expect if we were only evaluating it as a standard business decision here.

Unfortunately, nearly EVERY anti-mall comment comes down to saying the Church (with it's apostles as complicit since they approved the Mall) is oppressing the poor, juxtaposing scriptures about such, with photos of the Prophet cutting ribbons, etc...with these attacks now being extended to the Conference Center as "The Great and Spacious Building", which Center is NOT a business project....

Likewise, nearly every person making this anti-mall comments, also has some other complaints against the Church, it's leaders, or its members as whole...and from nearly every person, I have seen these other complaints coming BEFORE the Mall was built - or even mentioned on this forum.

Serious axes to grind...

That's a good point Heir. But a person who questions their church for building a mall doesn't mean they are somehow on the road to apostasy either. I think it is a reasonable and understandable concern especially for a church that constantly teaches against conspicuous consumption.

[bobhenstra]

I made no dig at Paul nor his supporters. Said nothing about Paul until Flagg jumped on me! OI, you just skimming too?
You Paul supporters got your way, you defeated Romney! Why so touchy? It is what it is now, good luck with your choice!

Bob

Bob, our support of Ron was always about voting for the best man for the job based on principles and the Constitution and sorry to say, Mitt just didn't measure up the way Ron did (not even close) - we weren't supporting Ron to stop Romney. #-o

Lol, in your own words Flagg--Lies, damn lies! For every attack on Obama there were 20 attacks on Romney, You guys got your message out! Quit crying!