Flagg, how did you miss this???

[Col. Flagg]

I think Info. got you Semp.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

So true Semp. The outright hypocrisy here is staggering. Ron Paul could become President elect of the Bilderbergers and the Col. And others would still make excuses for him.

If that were to ever happen, I would immediately lose all faith and trust in Ron. But it didn't happen, never would happen and won't happen.

He can do no wrong in their eyes.

We know Ron wasn't and isn't perfect... but he was the best chance and shot we had at returning to a constitutional form of representative government based on the principles of freedom, liberty, truth and justice. Unfortunately, that wasn't and isn't the plan.You do realize that you put all your hope for a return to a constitutional form government in a lifetime politician right? Not a prophet, not we the people, not turning to God, but a politician. OK. Each his own. But that was never going to happen. Besides, Ron Paul had his chance and he failed in so many ways it is pathetic how he has been able to deceive so many faithful, even the very elect.. He had a chance to to tell the truth about many things and in particular the truth about the fraud that Obama is. A usurper, infidel bent on destroying America, and Ron Paul had his chance to stand up and defend and protect the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Nope. Instead of doing the right thing he mocked the truth. And lets get real, you would never lose faith in Ron Paul. The Prophets and apostles yes, A politician, no. Besides, even if Ron Paul were the real deal, he wasn't going to change anything. The only thing we can do as a nations is repent, turn our lives over to our God Almighty and vote out all incumbents. That is the real problem col. flagg, we have forgotten who our God is, and our God given RIGHTS! Not because we didn't vote for Ron Paul. We have forgotten that all things belong to Him, everything, even our very lives. America needs to repent, that would help, voting Ron Paul would lead to a quickest demise of America. Austerity would put us in the stone ages. Same old, same old. We need to put our faith in God, his Holy prophets, and each other, not politicians.

They are the easiest ones to deceive because of the lack of any kind of filtering concerning "their guy".

Mark, if we were easy to deceive, we'd still accept the government's narrative of 9/11 and would believe in and have faith in the two-party system and that our federal government was interested in doing the right thing. =)) #-o Ron Paul has been part of and benefited from the so called two party system. What you fail to see is how alternate media is controlled as much as the two parties. Rockefeller's own NBC and the own Austrian economics. The Powers that be own all opposition and all sides of the argument. I mean what does Glen Beck, Ron Paul, Alan Greenspan, Micheal Savage, Mark Levin, Alex Jones, Bank of Switzerland, IMF, World Bank, ect... all have in common? They all hold shares in gold companies, all sponsored by gold companies, all profit when you buy gold and all support a return to the gold standard and abolish article 1 section 8 of the US constitution.

Yet in the same breathe those like the Col. assume the worst about the Prophets in their stewardship responsibilities. Just staggering..

I will always decry a multi-billion mammon mall that caters to the rich and expansive, expensive fine sanctuaries that rob the poor regardless of which church was involved in its/their construction and it has nothing to do with 'assuming the worst about our prophet(s)'.

:ymapplause: bravo! Keep blaming the leaders of the church for neglecting the poor, I prefer pointing the finger at myself and us individuals. The prophets, the church is not designed or suppose to do what we can do ourselves.

Oh, and maybe you should do a little digging about Ron Pauls relationship with big banks. Ron Paul is one of their favorite paper boys.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

You're not even making sense. You're comparing one contributor. A single person. Peter Thiel. And then saying that we are hypocrites because we say that Mitt Romney has multiple GINORMOUS corporations donating to him (the same ones who donated to Obama)? Then you change subjects and bring up Rockefeller dumping money into the idea of free market so he could usurp and take the free market for himself and his buddies. Rockefeller hates the free market. Who was the one that said competition is a sin? Yep. Rockefeller did. Have you seen Ron Paul doing this/ supporting this/saying this? You make the connection to Rockefeller (as a known manipulator of the free market) to Ron Paul... how? You don't agree with Ron Paul's vision/concept of a free market?

I guess the church is corrupt for taking tithing money from Brother Marriott. Right?

Whoops, Semp.

Please.... I am certain you got that back words, Your the one who has no idea what the Hayek Revolution is all about, or the true purpose of a Ron Paul "Free Market" is all about. You live in fantasy land. Like I said, you guys are in such denial of the truth. Your post above shows that you have done zero research into the history and finance of both Austrian Economics and Libertarian movements. Because if you did, there is no denying where the ideas Ron Paul has pushed all these years came from. Not the founding Fathers that's for dang sure.

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance.' - James Madison,

"Satan's masterpiece of counterfeiting is the doctrine that there are only two choices, and he will show us what they are. It is true that there are only two ways, but by pointing us the way he wants us to take and then showing us a fork in that road, he convinces us that we are making the vital choice, when actually we are choosing between branches in his road. Which one we take makes little difference to him, for both lead to destruction. This is the polarization we find in our world today. Thus we have the choice between Shiz and Coriantumr -- which all Jaredites were obliged to make. We have the choice between the wicked Lamanites (and they were that) and the equally wicked (Mormon says "more wicked") Nephites. Or between the fleshpots of Egypt and the stews of Babylon, or between the land pirates and the sea pirates of World War I, of between white supremacy and black supremacy, or between Vietnam and Cambodia, or between Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers, or between China and Russia, or between Catholic and Protestant, or between fundamentalist and atheist, or between right and left -- all of which are true rivals, who hate each other. A very clever move by Satan! -- a subtlety that escapes most us most of the time." --Hugh Nibley

"THE EYES OF OUR CITIZENS ARE NOT SUFFICIENTLY OPEN TO THE TRUE CAUSE OF OUR DISTRESS. THEY ASCRIBE THEM TO EVERYTHING BUT THEIR TRUE CAUSE, THE BANKING SYSTEM!" ― Thomas Jefferson 1819

[InfoWarrior82]

You're not even making sense. You're comparing one contributor. A single person. Peter Thiel. And then saying that we are hypocrites because we say that Mitt Romney has multiple GINORMOUS corporations donating to him (the same ones who donated to Obama)? Then you change subjects and bring up Rockefeller dumping money into the idea of free market so he could usurp and take the free market for himself and his buddies. Rockefeller hates the free market. Who was the one that said competition is a sin? Yep. Rockefeller did. Have you seen Ron Paul doing this/ supporting this/saying this? You make the connection to Rockefeller (as a known manipulator of the free market) to Ron Paul... how? You don't agree with Ron Paul's vision/concept of a free market?

I guess the church is corrupt for taking tithing money from Brother Marriott. Right?

Whoops, Semp.

Please.... I am certain you got that back words, Your the one who has no idea what the Hayek Revolution is all about, or the true purpose of a Ron Paul "Free Market" is all about. You live in fantasy land. Like I said, you guys are in such denial of the truth. Your post above shows that you have done zero research into the history and finance of both Austrian Economics and Libertarian movements. Because if you did, there is no denying where the ideas Ron Paul has pushed all these years came from. Not the founding Fathers that's for dang sure.

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance.' - James Madison,

"Satan's masterpiece of counterfeiting is the doctrine that there are only two choices, and he will show us what they are. It is true that there are only two ways, but by pointing us the way he wants us to take and then showing us a fork in that road, he convinces us that we are making the vital choice, when actually we are choosing between branches in his road. Which one we take makes little difference to him, for both lead to destruction. This is the polarization we find in our world today. Thus we have the choice between Shiz and Coriantumr -- which all Jaredites were obliged to make. We have the choice between the wicked Lamanites (and they were that) and the equally wicked (Mormon says "more wicked") Nephites. Or between the fleshpots of Egypt and the stews of Babylon, or between the land pirates and the sea pirates of World War I, of between white supremacy and black supremacy, or between Vietnam and Cambodia, or between Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers, or between China and Russia, or between Catholic and Protestant, or between fundamentalist and atheist, or between right and left -- all of which are true rivals, who hate each other. A very clever move by Satan! -- a subtlety that escapes most us most of the time." --Hugh Nibley

"THE EYES OF OUR CITIZENS ARE NOT SUFFICIENTLY OPEN TO THE TRUE CAUSE OF OUR DISTRESS. THEY ASCRIBE THEM TO EVERYTHING BUT THEIR TRUE CAUSE, THE BANKING SYSTEM!" ― Thomas Jefferson 1819

The true cause of of our distress is the banking system, eh? Okay, riddle me this, Semp: If you're so afraid of the free market, why did the LDG's use government to take control of the market? Why didn't they just... use the free market to take over?

Didn't Rockefeller say "Competition is a sin" ? I would argue that it's not private banking that's the problem. It's private banking that uses government as the glove to control policies. Today's LDG's want THIS. Not a true free market. They do not want what Ron Paul wants. What he proposes will topple their structure. The false libertarians like Rockefellers, Thiels, etc, want only the freedom to gather up as much power as they can and put it all within the bounds of government control for their purposes. If Ron Paul really was some LDG insider, wouldn't they have done what he was calling for by now?

[HeirofNumenor]

The true cause of of our distress is the banking system, eh? Okay, riddle me this, Semp: If you're so afraid of the free market, why did the LDG's use government to take control of the market? Why didn't they just... use the free market to take over?

"There are Save Two Churches Only"

“Bilderberg/CFR/Trilateralist success depends on finding “a way to get us
to surrender our liberties in the name of some common threat or
crisis. The foundations, educational institutions, and research think tanks
supported by (these organizations) oblige by financing so-called 'studies'
which are then used to justify their every excess. The excuses vary, but
the target is always individual liberty. Our liberty” and much more.

“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from
defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or
virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin,
credit and circulation.”
– John Adams, Second President of the United States30

“The real truth of the matter is, and you and I know, that a financial
element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since
the days of Andrew Jackson. History depicts Andrew Jackson as the last
truly honorable and incorruptible American president.”
– President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR)31

“[W]e conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are not federal... but are
independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations... without
day to day direction from the federal government.”
– 9th Circuit Court in Lewis vs. United States, June 24, 1982

“Yes; we may all congratulate ourselves that this cruel war is nearing its
close. It has cost a vast amount of treasure and blood. The best blood of
the flower of American youth has been freely offered upon our country's
altar that the Nation might live. It has been, indeed a trying hour for the
Republic; but I see in the future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and
causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war,
corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places
will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong
its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until wealth is
aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this
moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even
in the midst of the war.”
– Attributed to Abraham Lincoln, 1865 -32

“Bilderbergers, Trilateralists and CFR members want “an all-encompassing
monopoly” – over government, money, industry, and property that's “selfperpetuating
and eternal.” In Confessions of a Monopolist (1906),
Frederick C. Howe explained its workings in practice:

“The rules of big business: Get a monopoly; let Society work for you.
So long as we see all international revolutionaries and all international
capitalists as implacable enemies of one another, then we miss a
crucial point.... a partnership between international monopoly
capitalism and international revolutionary socialism is for
their mutual benefit.”

“In the Rockefeller File, Gary Allen wrote:
“By the late nineteenth century, the inner sanctums of Wall Street
understood that the most efficient way to gain a monopoly was to
say it was for the 'public good' and 'public interest.'”
“David Rockefeller learned the same thing from his father, John D., Jr. who
learned it from his father, John D. Sr. They hated competition and
relentlessly strove to eliminate it – for David on a global scale through a
New World Order.
“In the 1970s and 1980s, Trilateralists and CFR members collaborated on
the latter's "1980 Project," the largest ever CFR initiative to steer world
events “toward a particular desirable future outcome (involving) the utter
disintegration of the economy.” Why so is the question?

“Because by the 1950s and 1960s, worldwide industrial growth meant
more competition. It was also a model to be followed, and “had to be
strangled in the cradle” or at least greatly contained. In America as well[,]
beginning in the 1980s. The result has been a transfer of wealth from the
poor to the rich, shrinkage of the middle class, and plan for its eventual
demise.” 29
267

[HeirofNumenor]

From: "There are Save Two Churches Only"

There are very good reasons as to why these first two attempts to
establish a central bank for the United States ultimately failed, but possibly
the number one reason they failed was because America's founding fathers
were not beguiled.

James Madison, Father of the US Constitution and fourth president of
the United States, on whose watch the first attempt at a central bank failed,
stated the following (emphasis added):
“History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse,
intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over
governments by controlling the money and its issuance.”

Thomas Jefferson, co-author of the US Constitution and third president
related the following in a letter to John Taylor (emphasis added):
“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied
aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power [of
money] should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people
[i.e. via full and complete congressional oversight] to whom it properly
269
THE MOST INFLUENTIAL ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD
belongs.”

Andrew Jackson, America's 7th president, vetoed more bills than all the
presidents that preceded him, combined. (No president beat his record until
Andrew Johnson, the 17th president.34) The second attempt to establish a
central bank failed on his watch. His detractors referred to him as “King
Andrew.” He was not the least bit reserved in expressing his opinions about
anything, especially the financial powers granted to Congress in the
Constitution. The following are a few of his choice expressions about banking
matters (emphasis added):
• “I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national
blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise
around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties
of the country.”
• “If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was
given to be used by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or
corporations.”
• “The bold effort the present [central] bank had made to control the
government… are but premonitions of the fate that await the American people
should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the
establishment of another like it.”

Perhaps it doesn't get any more direct, clear-cut and confrontational
than this following declaration of Jackson's, which he boldly pronounced
when evicting a delegation of international bankers from the Oval Office
(emphasis added):
“Gentlemen, I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of
the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am
convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the
breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits
amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You
tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I
shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is
your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and
that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend
to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on
the table) I will rout you out!” 35

[InfoWarrior82]

Thanks, Heir.

[HeirofNumenor]

Not sure why you are thanking me...I wasn't proving your point... :-\

[HeirofNumenor]

From: "There are Save Two Churches ONLY"
THE MOST INFLUENTIAL ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD:
“The Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks have been
international bankers from the beginning, with the United States
Government as their enforced banker and supplier of currency.... Some
people think the Federal Reserve banks are United States Government
institutions. They are not Government institutions. They are private credit
monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the
benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic
speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.... Every
effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its
power, but the truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the
Government of the United States. It controls everything here and it
controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.
271


No man and no body of men is more entrenched in power than the
arrogant credit monopoly which operates the Federal Reserve Board and
the Federal Reserve banks. These evil-doers have robbed this country of
more than enough money to pay the national debt.... The sack of the
United States by the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks
is the greatest crime in history.... What is needed here is a return to the
Constitution of the United States. We need to have a complete
divorce of Bank and State. The old struggle that was fought out here in
Jackson's day must be fought over again.... The Federal Reserve act
should be repealed and the Federal Reserve banks, having violated their
charters, should be liquidated immediately. Faithless Government
officers who have violated their oaths of office should be
impeached and brought to trial.”
– Rep. Louis McFadden,
Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee38

“The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is eager to enter into close
relationship with the Bank for International Settlements…. The conclusion
is impossible to escape that the State and Treasury Departments are
willing to pool the banking system of Europe and America, setting up a
world financial power independent of and above the Government of the
United States…. The United States under present conditions will be
transformed from the most active of manufacturing nations into
a consuming and importing nation with a balance of trade
against it.” [Ed. note: this last sentence has been especially prophetic.]
– Rep. Louis McFadden, again, as quoted in the New York Times39

“If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and
there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a
staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial
Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or
credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are
prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent
money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic
absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is
the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect
upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse
unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied
very soon.”
– Robert Hemphill, Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank in Atlanta40

In 1862, Abraham Lincoln began issuing debt-free Greenbacks, instead
of using bankers' banknotes, to fund The North's operations in the Civil War.
The following is an excerpt of an 1865 London Times editorial that was
prompted by this action, which illustrates what debt-free
nationally-controlled currency means to the international financiers
(emphasis added):
272

“If that mischievous financial policy which had its origin in the North
American Republic during the late war in that country, should become
indurated down to a fixture [i.e. cemented, become permanent policy],
then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay
off its debts and be without debt. It will become prosperous beyond
precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the
world. The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America.
That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every
monarchy on the globe.”
– Lord Goschen, Hazard Circular, quoted in London Times, 1865

Later that same year, Lincoln was assassinated. W. Cleon Skousen, the
Constitutional scholar and historian mentioned earlier in this chapter, was
convinced there was a connection:
“Right after the Civil War there was considerable talk about reviving
Lincoln’s brief experiment with the Constitutional monetary system. Had
not the European money-trust intervened, it would have no doubt become
an established institution.”41

[InfoWarrior82]

Not sure why you are thanking me...I wasn't proving your point... :-\

Lol... actually... yes you did. What is the common thread in all your quotes?

Government.

There's a reason why the LDG's took over government. They wouldn't have been successful with their plans of global economic domination without that very important key.

Didn't Rockefeller say "Competition is a sin" ? I would argue that it's not private banking that's the problem. It's private banking that uses government as the glove to control policies. Today's LDG's want THIS. Not a true free market. They do not want what Ron Paul wants. What he proposes will topple their structure. The false libertarians like Rockefellers, Thiels, etc, want only the freedom to gather up as much power as they can and put it all within the bounds of government control for their purposes. If Ron Paul really was some LDG insider, wouldn't they have done what he was calling for by now?

[HeirofNumenor]

Not if it is private banks and corps. that have arranged and rigged everything, and co-opted all governments, to enforce their whims....

I know you worship absolute liberty and free market, but that will never work unless the hearts of all are changed through Christ - 4th Nephi/City of Enoch situation...until then, you will ALWAYS have men of ambition aided by secret combination amass resources and rise to the top, and then exert one form of tyranny or another...and only government can stand in their way (to the extent that both those in govt, and those that vote are both enlightened and uncorrupted).

"If Men were angels, no government would be necessary"

[InfoWarrior82]

Not if it is private banks and corps. that have arranged and rigged everything, and co-opted all governments, to enforce their whims....

I know you worship absolute liberty and free market, but that will never work unless the hearts of all are changed through Christ - 4th Nephi/City of Enoch situation...until then, you will ALWAYS have men of ambition aided by secret combination amass resources and rise to the top, and then exert one form of tyranny or another...and only government can stand in their way (to the extent that both those in govt, and those that vote are both enlightened and uncorrupted).

"If Men were angels, no government would be necessary"

Do I worship absolute liberty? No. I'm not an anarchist. Do I believe in free markets the way our founders intended? Yes. But what is the argument here? I was responding to an accusation that Ron Paul wasn't who he said he was. What we have now is not what the founders intended. My point should be clear by now: Free markets are feared by those who have co-opted government as their enforcers. Isn't that what all the authors of the quotes you posted were trying to say?

[HeirofNumenor]

MY apologies if I misunderstood you.

Free markets are feared by those who have co-opted government as their enforcers. Isn't that what all the authors of the quotes you posted were trying to say?

Actually no - these entities feared too much freedom and power in the hands of the public ("too much democracy", quote not included with my list).

All of these quotes above dealt with giving control of the money supply to private bankers, and instead the statesmen advocated having the Federal Govt be the sole controller of the money supply - including the praise/ PTB horror re: Lincoln's debt-free Greenbacks...

Get the banks out of the money supply and influence, and THEN watch freedom (economic and otherwise) really take off...

But you have to restructure (by law) the entire financial system and banks so that they can never again amass any sort of influence or control...
(vaults only, NO fractional lending or debt-bearing currency, no interest/usury, establishing Mathematically Perfect Economy, domestic production, etc)...

[Seek the Truth]

It's all academic at this point. We'll be approaching 150% debt to GDP by the end of Obama's term, and then we'll really get to borrowing.

Bankruptcy is not a matter of when but how fast.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Not if it is private banks and corps. that have arranged and rigged everything, and co-opted all governments, to enforce their whims....

I know you worship absolute liberty and free market, but that will never work unless the hearts of all are changed through Christ - 4th Nephi/City of Enoch situation...until then, you will ALWAYS have men of ambition aided by secret combination amass resources and rise to the top, and then exert one form of tyranny or another...and only government can stand in their way (to the extent that both those in govt, and those that vote are both enlightened and uncorrupted).

"If Men were angels, no government would be necessary"

I really like what your saying HeirofNumenor! All of it! Two churches only... In a Ron Paul (NOT FOUNDING FATHERS) Free Market, it would take no time for Satan's financial empire to rise to the top. Who in this world owns enough gold and silver to set up competing currency banks backed by precious metals? Remember, the "free market" regulates itself, gold regulates itself. Simple answer, the same people who control us today.. They'd be the very ones setting up competing banks under this system making loans at interest. That would be in there best interest and they would have zero resistance doing this with free government interest..They would gain total control of this free market in no time without any consequences. Without a doubt the gold bugs have an interest in setting up competing currency banks to make loans at interest. They have done this for ages. Austrian's economics has always worked out incredible for the world’s richest people --- the holders of the majority of gold along with private banks.

I mean who is going to lead the way in this virtuous "free-market" system free from government?? Making gold and silver legal tender so that "sound money" can compete on a level playing field?? I swear we have been down this road before.

"And the gold coin standard is the most important because governments cheat. You can’t trust government." -- Ron Paul

Think about it, who controls america? In no way is it government. We are not a sovereign nation. Congress sure doesn't coin the money as the constitution specifically says, rather our money is borrowed into existence. Congress doesn't regulate the Value thereof, they don't set the prices of food, gas, electricity, cars, homes, clothes ect... Those who set the prices of these things do so without government intervention. (Just like a Free Market) Those who do set the prices are treasonous organizations like credit rating agencies, the Federal Reserve, etc. How can we expect to live in peace in global free market that regulates itself? When need to some form of protection from the money masters and that protection lies in article 1 section 8. We the people have the power to coin and regulate. When have you ever heard Ron Paul advocate what founding fathers would be saying today... "We need to restore Article 1 Section 8?" Never. Because his message has always been the same, governments cheat and that you can’t trust government. Austrians are not interested in restoring Article 1 section 8, they are invested in making sure it doesn't get restored, and striping government of what power/protections that are left.

Ron blames America for everything. He blames our government for 9/11. He blames our government for being invaders and occupiers. Why doesn't Ron Paul tell the truth if that’s what he's all about? It's not our government that is in the middle east. Those who are... are just using our name, under the disguise of our government. Why doesn't he say what it is? Those who helped create, fund, and organize Nazi fascism and funded Hitler just so happen to run the U.S today. Never hear that from Ron Paul. The U.S doesn't run as a sovereign nation. The U.S and the world is run by Satan's financial empire.

Thus, we wouldn't have had a Nazi century because of Paul's military budget cuts or closing foreign military bases. Instead it would be Paul's failure to understand the beloved "free-market" would allow, as it already has, an international financial system to dominate and subjugate our nation.

Weather it be Keynesian, fascism, capitalist, communism, Austrian, they all are just one of many personalities of the same beast. The end results are all the same. Many roads with the same disastrous end. None of them provide freedom from serfdom for the common man.

"you will ALWAYS have men of ambition aided by secret combination amass resources and rise to the top, and then exert one form of tyranny or another...and only government can stand in their way " Spot on. In a Ron Paul "free Market", nothing will be there to stand in there way. We would start falling like flies..

Truth is I am over Ron Paul. What concerns me is how many of his ideas have been instilled into the minds of so many good people. Each his own.

From: "There are Save Two Churches ONLY"
THE MOST INFLUENTIAL ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD:
“The Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks have been
international bankers from the beginning, with the United States
Government as their enforced banker and supplier of currency.... Some
people think the Federal Reserve banks are United States Government
institutions. They are not Government institutions. They are private credit
monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the
benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic
speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.... Every
effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its
power, but the truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the
Government of the United States. It controls everything here and it
controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.
271


No man and no body of men is more entrenched in power than the
arrogant credit monopoly which operates the Federal Reserve Board and
the Federal Reserve banks. These evil-doers have robbed this country of
more than enough money to pay the national debt.... The sack of the
United States by the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks
is the greatest crime in history.... What is needed here is a return to the
Constitution of the United States. We need to have a complete
divorce of Bank and State. The old struggle that was fought out here in
Jackson's day must be fought over again.... The Federal Reserve act
should be repealed and the Federal Reserve banks, having violated their
charters, should be liquidated immediately. Faithless Government
officers who have violated their oaths of office should be
impeached and brought to trial.”
– Rep. Louis McFadden,
Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee38

[bobhenstra]

Darn good thing we're all prepared!

[HeirofNumenor]

Thank you for your points Semp...

I want to make one thing clear....

I Like Ron Paul. I like Mitt Romney. Each has their pros and each has their cons.

That said, I have no interest in bashing or sniping at ANYONE (except Obama). The election is OVER. The PTB machine would have ensured Obama won, NO MATTER who the GOP candidate was (except possibly like Jeb Bush, who was someone already high up and reliable to the PTB but not dramatically off-putting as Gingrich). The main targets must be the elites of the world: primarily the international/central/investment bankers, and their associated top corporations. The politicians are mainly tools (though they rightly desire our ire and enmity). Those who rightfully point out the flaws in the system, or are not really an insider get at best ignored or marginalized (both Paul and Romney). Unfortunately any direct assaults upon their power bases will result in the Track One train crushing up to bits. Only God can wipe out the system now...

But we still need t keep slogging away, fighting the good fight, knowing it is a losing battle - fighting the Long Defeat, as Galadriel said. While we still need to seek out good and wise people for office (even if it's only local), and keep trying to educate the masses with correct principles, we must also be cognizant of how fast the toilet is flushing, and must be aware of the maximum tolerances for truth that could get a majority of voters to act and slow the hemorrhaging. The general public is rapidly losing what sense of morality they had. They are ripening quite rapidly.

Our goals need to be primarily Track Two -based.
Get ourselves, and friends and family prepared. Spiritually. Emotionally. Mentally. Physically. Temporally.
Strengthen, not divide the Church. Stop anything that resembles complaints and accusations against the Church or the brethren.
Lots of faithful service, especially in the Temple, but also to our fellowmen and women, without regard for church membership - starting within your ward boundaries, or within your circles of associations/influence.
Make sure your lamp of testimony is filled to the utmost brim with spiritual oil.
Be as a Christ-like example as possible.
Cry repentance all day and night.

There is a reason the new unofficial motto of the Church has become: "All are Safely Gathered in." We seem to have very little time left to gather as many as will come, before the storm doors must be shut and barred. It may be 1 month, it may be 7 years. But "the Lord is hastening His work." "Don't delay, it's getting late."

We won't gather the majority of people - most will choose to stay out in the storm and party, or refuse to look our way for deliverance. Many of our own will likewise refuse safety and shelter - whether out of pride, defiance, hedonism, or being ensnared with cunning yet bitter lies - others will turn and begin moving towards the safety the Lord offers, but they will come over-late. Many will be our family, friends, and fellow ward members - and Our hearts will break...and we will pray that the 144,000 will be able to bring the last souls who will come to us...

[bobhenstra]

Mark replied to flag: Yet in the same breathe those like the Col. assume the worst about the Prophets in their stewardship responsibilities. Just staggering..

Flagg replies to Marks: I will always decry a multi-billion mammon mall that caters to the rich and expansive, expensive fine sanctuaries that rob the poor regardless of which church was involved in its/their construction and it has nothing to do with 'assuming the worst about our prophet(s)'.

Flagg, why are you not considering the profits the Churches business arm will make renting space to retailers as money well spent?? Flagg, not a single penny of YOUR precious tithing money went into building that mall (I don't consider tithing I pay my money, it's my Lord's money). I'm very happy the Church has a business arm, I don't understand why you are not! That mall is paid for, earning big profits by renting space to big and small retailers. Just where do you think those profits go? Helping people after disasters? Building new temples and chapels, funding DI's? Does the Parable of the Talents mean anything to you? The Parable means a lot to me, and to Our Lord's Prophets, but not you? Why is that???

I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim. There were many older cars and pickups in the parking lot, in fact Flagg, I don't remember seeing a single Lexus! But the interior was very nice, probably the very reason "why" all the big and small retailers are there, paying for all those big leases. A beautiful mall making a beautiful city, the HQ of the True Church, more beautiful. Money well spent, with a great return on investment, to be spent where Our Lord directs his Prophets to use it!

Parable of the Talents!

Bob

[natasha]

Exactly, Bob. I visited City Creek and was very impressed! Yes, there are a few stores that I don't shop in....but I didn't shop in them when they were anywhere...in malls, or local communities. There were also some shops that I could shop in and have shopped in anywhere they are located.

[ajax]

Mark replied to flag: Yet in the same breathe those like the Col. assume the worst about the Prophets in their stewardship responsibilities. Just staggering..

Flagg replies to Marks: I will always decry a multi-billion mammon mall that caters to the rich and expansive, expensive fine sanctuaries that rob the poor regardless of which church was involved in its/their construction and it has nothing to do with 'assuming the worst about our prophet(s)'.

Flagg, why are you not considering the profits the Churches business arm will make renting space to retailers as money well spent?? Flagg, not a single penny of YOUR precious tithing money went into building that mall (I don't consider tithing I pay my money, it's my Lord's money). I'm very happy the Church has a business arm, I don't understand why you are not! That mall is paid for, earning big profits by renting space to big and small retailers. Just where do you think those profits go? Helping people after disasters? Building new temples and chapels, funding DI's? Does the Parable of the Talents mean anything to you? The Parable means a lot to me, and to Our Lord's Prophets, but not you? Why is that???

I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim. There were many older cars and pickups in the parking lot, in fact Flagg, I don't remember seeing a single Lexus! But the interior was very nice, probably the very reason "why" all the big and small retailers are there, paying for all those big leases. A beautiful mall making a beautiful city, the HQ of the True Church, more beautiful. Money well spent, with a great return on investment, to be spent where Our Lord directs his Prophets to use it!

Parable of the Talents!

Bob

Since no tithing was used, why do you care if people criticize it? Investment income used for further investment. Standard business decisions are subject to objection without a persons faithfulness being called into question. Since these are "non-sacred funds" in the first place(allegedly), stop pulling the faith card or lack thereof for anyone who may question it.

Of course the argument could be made that the original investment monies came from somewhere, ahem, namely tithing, but I digress.

Parable of the Talents? Hmmm....maybe or maybe not...
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 41&t=24647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Col. Flagg]

Flagg, why are you not considering the profits the Churches business arm will make renting space to retailers as money well spent??

Because we're a church and not a for-profit Babylonian corporation!

Flagg, not a single penny of YOUR precious tithing money went into building that mall (I don't consider tithing I pay my money, it's my Lord's money).

Bob, where did the funds for the investments that generated the interest income come from? Hint: ask N. Eldon Tanner (you'll have to wait until you pass away to speak with him). He began investing tithing funds in 1963 as a way for the church to make money.

I'm very happy the Church has a business arm, I don't understand why you are not!

I'm all for Deseret Industries, Seagull Book, employment services, etc., (small businesses/services that exist to assist low income members, those in need of employment or those seeking additional church materials, resources or items to promote the faith, but please tell me how City Creek serves the members of the church or the poor and needy? If you can't see the difference between the D.I., Seagull Book and City Creek Mall, then I don't know what to say? :ymblushing:

That mall is paid for, earning big profits by renting space to big and small retailers. Just where do you think those profits go? Helping people after disasters? Building new temples and chapels, funding DI's? Does the Parable of the Talents mean anything to you? The Parable means a lot to me, and to Our Lord's Prophets, but not you? Why is that???

That mall is not earning big profits Bob... have you not heard the dismal Christmas sales numbers? Have you not heard about all the reports of people going to City Creek but seeing few actually purchasing anything? One Rolex watch in the Rolex store is priced at an amount that would feed 1,000 homeless or starving people for days. I wouldn't be talking about parables Bob when you clearly don't even understand what it means to be a true disciple of Christ. If you see no problem with City Creek, then you need to re-evaluate your relationship with the Lord and our Savior.

I was in that mall about a year ago, there was little I wanted or needed that I couldn't afford in the stores there. The mall just isn't for rich people as you claim.

Bob, the place belongs in Beverly Hills, CA for crying out loud... and you couldn't afford anything but it's not for rich people??? #-o

There were many older cars and pickups in the parking lot, in fact Flagg, I don't remember seeing a single Lexus! But the interior was very nice, probably the very reason "why" all the big and small retailers are there, paying for all those big leases. A beautiful mall making a beautiful city, the HQ of the True Church, more beautiful. Money well spent, with a great return on investment, to be spent where Our Lord directs his Prophets to use it!

I agree... it is impressive and a sight to behold... but that's the problem... why are we trying to impress Babylon while robbing the poor? Is that was Christ would have us do?

Bob... Matthew 6:24.

[Col. Flagg]

Exactly, Bob. I visited City Creek and was very impressed! Yes, there are a few stores that I don't shop in....but I didn't shop in them when they were anywhere...in malls, or local communities. There were also some shops that I could shop in and have shopped in anywhere they are located.

[natasha]

I think you misread Bob's statement about "couldn't afford"....better check it again. There are stores there that I have shopped in before, also.

[Seek the Truth]

I hope the mall caters to the rich, they are the ones with money. It's hard to make money these days, this looks more inspired with each passing day.

[Seek the Truth]