LDS Freedom Forum

How do you feel about the word of wisdom? Is it meant to meant to mean "absolutly no alcohol or caffeine" or is it OK in moderation. There are small amounts of each in alot of products. Even hot chocolate has a little caffeine. I feel that as long as you dont abuse it and become addicted or dependent on it, its ok. I would like to know how do others feel?

Hello rixida. I see you're new to LDSFF. Welcome!

There are some pretty big discussions about the WoW in the Fulness of the Gospel section. Some of those discussions, specifically including barley drinks, etc., may be in the Greater Things subsection, which requires a request for permission to access. You might find those discussions interesting.

Feel free to request access and check out the discussions there, and/or even start a new thread there. The reason those kind of discussions can occur more productively in that section is because there are heightened rules regarding civility and respect, to guard against contention, which often occurs in discussions about sensitive subjects like WoW, on the open forum, and has a real chilling effect on open discussion.

FWIW

Early in my career, I would have to go to dinner parties, and I was not aware that sometimes chocolats are made with liquers. When offered a chocolat, I was sometimes surprised at the taste of the liquer. I never spit out the chocolat, I would eat it then just not eat any more. I figured that any alchohol in the chocolat was insignificant, and it would not be polite to make a big scene.

Also, once when I was in the Marines and I was out on a field problem in southern Florida, I was beginning to feel the effects of heat stroke, and I had no water, so I asked to share a canteen of a fellow Marine. It turned out that there was Tea in the canteen. I very much apreciated that tea. It kept me from succumbng to heat stroke.

I never felt a need to confess to either in any temple interview...maybe I wll go to hell for that... or maybe God isn't that anal

Regards,

George Clay

I don't believe that breaking the WoW is serious sin like those of chastity and such but we must be trying to obey it and not be casual about adhering to it. Meaning, we all break it from time to time and most don't even realize it. It talks about all sorts of things not just coffee and tea and tobacco. By the way it doesn't mention caffeine. I use caffeine all the time in the form of chocolate and soda. Caffeine is the only thing that gets rid of some headaches.

Is someone breaking the WoW if they eat meat daily? Maybe? Our adherence to the law is also based upon our understanding of it. My grandmother was told by her doctor to have a cup of coffee everyday for her heart. She was not breaking the WoW as far as her bishop was concerned but she hated having to drink it.

From my experiences through what I have learned of bishops is that they seem to care way more about alcohol than Coffee, tea and the foods mentioned. Possibly because it alters our senses and allows evil to prey on our dampened or lessened faculties.

Sometimes I wonder if part of the WoW is simply to see if we will obey. If we know it is wrong to drink coffee but we justify ourselves having a few cups here and there I believe our slothful attempt to obey that law is more of the sin than someone else who drinks coffee all the time but doesn't know in their heart that it is wrong.

It's not good to be "anal" about anything in the gospel. We need to search for understanding and learn and obey the things we have been taught. If we are mere puppets following a law grudgingly are we really converted? Wouldn't god see that our hearts were not right about following his laws? I know some of us must simply follow certain laws because of our personal weaknesses we have but as we follow we should be able to make these weak things strengths. This gospel is a living gospel we must be ever learning and striving to be better.

Not as much as I used to be. I think in today's world the WOW combined with "my body is a temple" movement has turned into a form of idol worship of the human flesh.

I agree with much of the above. I sometimes want to bash my head against the wall when rubbing shoulders with those who would spit out a beverage after realizing it contained tea or alcohol, possibly even caffeine; and then turn around a chug and energy drink or soda/diet soda without skipping a beat.

Instead of relying on word for word of the WOW, we really should use our brains. Alcohol and other WOW drinks do not need to be treated like live tuberculosis culture. I dare say there are a number of alcoholic drinks that are less damaging than energy drinks or diet sodas. But instead of trying to be smart and avoiding harmful substances while simultaneously seeking after good things, some members like to see what they can get away with or what loopholes there are. In my mind they miss the whole point of the WOW. Do we really need revelation to see that drinking alcohol or smoking is a bad idea?

The WOW also says wheat is great, but the wheat of today is a poison. If tea is so horrible, how can we explain "mormon-tea" or "brigham-tea?" The WOW says nothing of GMOs, Omega 3s, trace minerals, or if we should filter water. Are oats really ONLY for horses? These examples do not mean the church isn't true, God no longer exists, and the universe will soon explode; it simply means we need to use our own brains (and the Spirit) to study and figure out what is healthy and what is harmful.

I sometimes want to bash my head against the wall when rubbing shoulders with those who would spit out a beverage after realizing it contained tea or alcohol, possibly even caffeine; and then turn around a chug and energy drink or soda/diet soda without skipping a beat.

There is nothing wrong with this. I did this many times on my honeymoon. I even drink an occasional soda or energy drink and feel that you should spit out any alcohol. I know the effects I drank it as a teenager and don't want to touch it (oddly wouldn't feel as bad about tea but would still spit it out). The church has come out with an official statement that caffeine is not mentioned in the word of wisdom. Its a law of moderation.

When the day comes when we have to grow our own food and people are alcoholics or addicted to chewing tobacco or cigarettes or even coffee they are going to regret the day even if they have food storage.

The person above mentioned how these things aren't that bad, wheat these days are toxic, etc... Well everything is technically bad for us in some way or form these day's. I'm not going to spend my days worrying about everything we can't eat but just eat in moderation. The word of wisdom is not about that (sort of) its about obedience to God's commandment at this time in Church. Maybe it would be allowed at certain times maybe not. It doesn't matter. It is given to us as it states because he knew of the secret combinations that would arise in our culture in the last days. And you see it.

Its a 11pm right now and the law states early to bed and early to rise (spirits teaches you in the morning apparently?) I wouldn't know I'm not awake very often in the morning till 12 or 2pm even If I wake up at 6/7am. Guess I'm breaking that law too #-o

I will obey all God's commandments. Like one said if its life or death due to no water I would take tea but not alcohol (perhaps). Joseph may have not had some liquor to numb pain in his leg as a child but he certainly had other beverages similar to it later in life. Put perhaps I would pray about it and listen to the spirit. Perhaps is my Abrahamic test to see if I will sacrifice something ??? Either way follow the spirit of the law not being like the pharisees that are so focused on every detail they miss the purpose of the law.

A Moderator should be able to move this in the proper forum?

The WOW is a commandment for us to follow. It's not a guideline to how to have a healthy body, it's a commandment. Certainly it has health benefits, but we follow it because it is now given as a commandment.

Yes, alcohol should be avoided completely as a drink for the purpose of drinking alcohol for its own sake. I have no problem with nyquil for a cold, or other alcohol based medicines a doctor gives me, but I'm not going to try old gramp's recipie of brandied cherries for curin' the blues. I don't drink alcohol by choice because I am commanded not to. Believe me, I'd like to some days. I do miss my Jameson, and after a long day of students, I could occasionally use a little time communing with my old friend Jose Cuervo. (I know that the WOW also says meat needs to be used sparingly - this does NOT mean if I only have a little Grey Goose that I'm okay.)

Caffeine is not mentioned. Coffee and tea are what we're told are the thot drinks to avoid. In a leadership meeting over a decade ago, (then) Elder Monson started his address with mentioning the debate about caffeinated soda. He opened a can of Mtn. Dew and took a long drink, then set the can down. His simple statement: "I hope this clears matters up." He then continued his address.

There are a LOT more things about what we should do than what we shouldn't, but they aren't as focused on.

Simply put:
No alcohol
No tobacco
No coffee or tea
Grains are good
Fruits are good

"eating meat sparingly" is a relative statement. What is "sparingly"? According to the text , "sparingly" is NOT "seasonal veganism".

I think the Word of Wisdom is the first expression of the food pyramid.
1. Grains as the foundation (base)
2. Fresh in-season fruits and veggies (middle)
3. Meats sparingly. (top)

Some plasticware plates come divided into 3 with a big, medium and small partition. I think if your grains fill the big partition, veggies fit in the medium spot, and meat fits the small space: you can feel like you are living up to the standard.

I'll admit, I'll be doing a MUCH better job following theWOW when they start growing bacon and ribeye steaks on grain stalks.

According to the Doctrine and Covenants Commentary "anything of like substance" is subject to the same objections. This should be obvious.
President Kimball realised the dangers of caffeine.
I am disappointed in LDS leaders who do not lead by example in regards to healthy food and beverages.

In all honesty, at that time there was a lot of krefuffle about people looking down their UT-Zion noses at anyone who didn't conform to the SL/Happy Valley holier-than-thou standard, and to tell you the truth I get the impression that it wasn't said to say that drinking Mtn. Dew was fine as much as it was to get leaders to stop condemning people to hell for having a Cherry Coke (my poison of choice.) It wasn't said to be that kind of lesson, but that was very much the feeling I got from it. Others mileage may have varied. I do doubt that President Monson drinks much Coke or Pepsi. However, belittling others for doing so is far worse, in my humble opinion, than having a non-BYU pop.

It is my expectation that those who receive revelation should know not to take harmful substances into their body. It is their responsibility to be a light and an example unto others.

SARAH Ward wrote:It is my expectation that those who receive revelation should know not to take harmful substances into their body. It is their responsibility to be a light and an example unto others.

I don't make this statement to start a debate. Its ok to drink caffeine but you should not drink so much where you become addicted to it.

Statement: Salt is a far worse substance in our culture today than caffeine. Do you put salt on everything? Sodium is leading causes of obesity, heart disease, and many other problems. Fast food every day will do more harm than drinking occasional caffeine but some do drink caffeine like coffee which is not good either.

TZONE wrote:

SARAH Ward wrote:It is my expectation that those who receive revelation should know not to take harmful substances into their body. It is their responsibility to be a light and an example unto others.

I don't make this statement to start a debate. Its ok to drink caffeine but you should not drink so much where you become addicted to it.

Statement: Salt is a far worse substance in our culture today than caffeine. Do you put salt on everything? Sodium is leading causes of obesity, heart disease, and many other problems. Fast food every day will do more harm than drinking occasional caffeine but some do drink caffeine like coffee which is not good either.

Salt is only bad for a small segment of the population. Most current medical studies show that salt reduction can actually raise blood pressure for many people. On the whole if your kidneys work then too much salt is like taking too much vitamin C -- it just goes out with the urine.

Caffeine should only be taken in moderation. I never even tried an energy drink until I spend extended time in Salt Lake and noticed the stores all along the front were packed with every variety imaginable. I think many LDS people use energy drinks because they give a boost without violating the WofW. There was an article in the Ensign a while back that said that the WofW does not ban caffeine.

As for the WofW a person who follows it literally, but does not see the more esoteric aspects of it in regards to such things as exercise will lose years if not decades from their life.

Fiannan wrote: As for the WofW a person who follows it literally, but does not see the more esoteric aspects of it in regards to such things as exercise will lose years if not decades from their life.

Agreed. Good thing the WofW does not mention potato chips, ice cream, or pizza.

I never drink soda pop simply for general health reasons; nothing to do with the WofW. Occasionally when I need to make a super late night drive for a long distance, I can take about 5 sips of a mountain dew or doctor pepper and (aside from the teary eyes from the carbonation) I'll be up all night and arrive safely at my destination.

The WofW seems to be one of the principles subject to the most individual interpretation outside of the few specifics mentioned. The scriptures, GAs, and common sense is does not leave much wiggle room to interpret morality, murder, honesty, etc, but there is definitely a lot of wiggle room with the WofW that allows some to enforce/preach their own interpretations.

So if the WofW were revised for our day as worldwide church by the prophet, what would the new WofW say about prescription drugs? sugar? fast food? GMOs? All the bugs people eat in southeast Asia? Plus, would it clarify why coffee and not hot chocolate? They both come from beans, what is the difference? Is wassail a hot drink? Is it only alright to drink if allowed to cool sufficiently?

Jusy in case anyone is wondering:

Anal:

of, relating to, characterized by, or being personality traits (as parsimony, meticulousness, and ill humor) considered typical of fixation at the anal stage of development <an anal disposition> <anal neatness>

I had to look it up.