The effort to brainwash against making babies.

[Fiannan]

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6Sg0UQHhM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You think there is not an effort to subliminally get people to not have kids? Listen to this guy and realize that television is a tool of indoctrination. Check what he says here from 26 minutes to 29 mintutes at least. These guys put a premium on finding ways to get Americans and I would assume Europeans to think twice about having kids.

[Fiannan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM_ZvlQk ... Lg&index=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange nobody sees fit to attack or comment. I find it odd that people don't see the connection between population control propaganda (much of it subliminal and admitted in the OP video) and the increase in people choosing to be childless, the increase in divorce and many people choosing not to even get married. Oh and remember, if you divorce reproduction from sex then everything becomes okay -- porn, homosexuality, abortion, adultery, fornication, etc. Psychology recognizes that most human behavior has its origins in the sexual instinct (libido) and that if you can divert it away from its intended purpose then all the manifestations that run counter to building families will grow, even in LDS families where parents question the traditional stance of the Church in regards to shunning birth control if the desire is merely to advance wealth or social standing.

[Benjamin_LK]

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6Sg0UQHhM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You think there is not an effort to subliminally get people to not have kids? Listen to this guy and realize that television is a tool of indoctrination. Check what he says here from 26 minutes to 29 mintutes at least. These guys put a premium on finding ways to get Americans and I would assume Europeans to think twice about having kids.

I don't view it so much as subliminal anymore, the lies used to justify infertility on a National Scale are out there, and always have been, it's an honest duty, however, to question and scrutinize them.

Do you really think that with abortion legally restricted, you would be driving 12,000 women to kill themselves in the back alley?
(I haven't heard a forum member offer a response to this in-your-face professed statistic, yet it is a commonly believed, and regurgitated argument used to justify pro-abortion arguments.

[AGStacker]

I totally agree with them brainwashing people so that they don't want to have children. I don't think it is a coincidence that a maternity insurance plan, the only my wife and I could find, was a minimum of $500 a month and had to be paid on for I think 21 months and then you could have a baby.

Luckily the county has a decent plan at the county hospital. $2,880 out of pocket with $250 reimbursed when the baby comes isn't bad at all!

[uglypitbull]

I have a couple friends who are waiting to have kids, their reason is that they want to enjoy "the good life" a bit longer. They are both over 35 and obviously have it completely backwards. Having kids IS "the good life"....I didnt realize that until I had one of my own.
Its sad that they would rather remodel their kitchen for $50K than to have kids....soon it will probably be too late for them anyway, not to mention that when you have kids....everything gets pretty much trashed. LOL! I used to be a neat freak......its just not possible with kids under 3. )

[moonwhim]

Moonwhim: I heard this guy on a radio show this morning, sounds like a very beneficial book.


written by Jonathan V. Last

Look around you and think for a minute: Is America too crowded?

For years, we have been warned about the looming danger of overpopulation: people jostling for space on a planet that’s busting at the seams and running out of oil and food and land and everything else.

It’s all bunk. The “population bomb” never exploded. Instead, statistics from around the world make clear that since the 1970s, we’ve been facing exactly the opposite problem: people are having too few babies. Population growth has been slowing for two generations. The world’s population will peak, and then begin shrinking, within the next fifty years. In some countries, it’s already started. Japan, for instance, will be half its current size by the end of the century. In Italy, there are already more deaths than births every year. China’s One-Child Policy has left that country without enough women to marry its men, not enough young people to support the country’s elderly, and an impending population contraction that has the ruling class terrified.

And all of this is coming to America, too. In fact, it’s already here. Middle-class Americans have their own, informal one-child policy these days. And an alarming number of upscale professionals don’t even go that far—they have dogs, not kids. In fact, if it weren’t for the wave of immigration we experienced over the last thirty years, the United States would be on the verge of shrinking, too.

What happened? Everything about modern life—from Bugaboo strollers to insane college tuition to government regulations—has pushed Americans in a single direction, making it harder to have children. And making the people who do still want to have children feel like second-class citizens.

What to Expect When No One’s Expecting explains why the population implosion happened and how it is remaking culture, the economy, and politics both at home and around the world.

Because if America wants to continue to lead the world, we need to have more babies.
----------------------------------------------------------
Editorial Reviews
Review
"A powerful argument that the only thing worse than having children is not having them. I'm reading What To Expect When No One's Expecting aloud to the three little arguments for birth control at my house in hope they'll quit squabbling and making messes and start acting so cute that all my neighbors decide to conceive."

—P.J. O’Rourke, Author of Holidays in Heck

“This book explodes old ways of thinking. Not moralizing, not blaming, Jonathan Last peers methodically ahead at the cold consequences of plunging global birth rates: aging and ever smaller national populations, the fatal destruction of the financial premises of the welfare state, disappearing military strength. He describes the comfortable, happy childlessness chosen by more and more highly educated couples—lives of personal contentment, yes, but with unutterably sad national consequences. We are left to draw conclusions ourselves: The use of sex is not simply personal; the future of the whole human race hangs on it. Those who missed Ben Wattenberg’s The Birth Dearth (1987) have another chance to be shaken awake by the earthquake rumbling louder and faster beneath us.”

—Michael Novak, recipient of the Templeton Prize (1994), and author of The Spirit of Democratic Capitalism

"Jonathan Last provides us with a well-written, well-argued description of one of the most profound, yet poorly understood phenomena of the 21st century: the world worldwide fall in birthrates and attendant rapid aging of the human population. He masterfully describes the key facts and concepts any literate person should know about the sea change in global demography and speculates wisely and soberly about the implications for the future of humanity. Avoiding the alarmism, sexism, and racial chauvinism that mars so such other writing on this subject, Last is an insightful and trustworthy guide."

—Phillip Longman, Senior Fellow of the New America Foundation and author of The Empty Cradle: How Falling Birthrates Threaten World Prosperity And What To Do About It

"Jonathan Last's writing matches his reasoning: as clear as a shot of gin, and just as bracing. America is changing more quickly than ever before, and this book explains why. A terrific, important read."

—Tucker Carlson, Editor of The Daily Caller

"Jonathan Last's pulled off an amazing feat. He's written a book that's at once lively and profound, that deals with weighty matters with a light touch, and that explains a complex subject clearly. It might make you laugh, it could make you cry--but above all it will make you think."

—William Kristol, Editor, The Weekly Standard
About the Author
Jonathan V. Last is a senior writer at the Weekly Standard. His writings have been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post, Philadelphia Inquirer, New York Post, Claremont Review of Books, First Things, The Week, Salon, Slate, TV Guide, and elsewhere. He writes a weekly column on politics, "One Last Thing," for the iPad newspaper The Daily.

He is a regular commentator on both television and radio and has appeared on ABC, CNN, Fox News Channel, PBS, NPR, CNBC, Sky News, and the BBC.

He blogs at JonathanLast.com.

[Fiannan]

I realize there are campaigns (even Disney cartoons) that have promoted small families. However, I believe that the most influential messages are those that log into the brain under the radar. If you present women in sit coms only starting to consider marriage when they are 35, or people only having one or two kids, or the idea that maybe one should consider being gay, then that will get people to adopt ideas that will merge with emotional subconscious and cause people to have small families.

[SpeedRacer]

I have said before that one of the main goals of the "green" agenda is to stop people from having babies, as they represent a threat to the earth, in their opinion. If you align yourself with a party or organization that is complicit with that agenda, I would double check your answers to the temple recommend questions, and make changes so as to no longer be affiliated.

[embryopocket]

The idea of delaying bringing children to this world after marriage to "enjoy life" has, unfortunately, wedged itself into the minds of many Latter-Day Saints. Many of my friends have this mentality and it is sad to see that they are delaying such an important work. The Lord will bless you if you put faith in Him and His revealed word. When my wife and I got engaged, I was unemployed. I desperately tried to find work, but it seemed like no company wanted me. We wanted a job so that we could have insurance because we knew that as soon as we were married we would begin trying to have children. I finally got work and started the first business day after we got married. The Lord could have given me the job a month before the marriage, but he didn't. I like to think that He was testing us to see if we would really put His Gospel before everything else. Several months have passed since then and our little Michael Enoch will be here in April. Words cannot express the wonderful feeling of knowing that I am now a father and will have the responsibility of helping my wife raise our child in a couple of months. It is a very humbling thought. I feel sorry for my married friends that are delaying this because they are really missing out on a whole bunch of blessings.

[Rose Garden]

I became aware of this agenda in college when one of my teachers (I forget which subject) presented it. The truth is, I believed every word at the time. I hadn't learned to question back then. I just personally excused myself from the philosophy because I planned on having lots of kids. Since that time I've learned to question and come up with my own ideas and looking back, I see how persuasive the arguments were on me. How would I know whether the earth is overpopulated or not? I'd barely been anywhere besides the Western United States. If people said that was crowded, then okay.

My eyes were really opened when I went to Korea. They have vegetable gardens planted everywhere. You can be driving through the heart of the city and see a vegetable garden shoved into a bit of open ground. Though the people have been taught all the modern day lies, they have seen enough hard times in the past to keep taking care of themselves if they can. Still, the younger generation there is moving away from that.

So when I saw all those vegetables crammed into whatever little spaces the people could find, I started thinking back on all the green lawns and open space available here in America that could be planted with food, if people just wanted to provide for themselves. The idea that we will run out of land to plant food is a complete lie. It's there. We're just not using it.

[Rose Garden]

The idea of delaying bringing children to this world after marriage to "enjoy life" has, unfortunately, wedged itself into the minds of many Latter-Day Saints. Many of my friends have this mentality and it is sad to see that they are delaying such an important work. The Lord will bless you if you put faith in Him and His revealed word. When my wife and I got engaged, I was unemployed. I desperately tried to find work, but it seemed like no company wanted me. We wanted a job so that we could have insurance because we knew that as soon as we were married we would begin trying to have children. I finally got work and started the first business day after we got married. The Lord could have given me the job a month before the marriage, but he didn't. I like to think that He was testing us to see if we would really put His Gospel before everything else. Several months have passed since then and our little Michael Enoch will be here in April. Words cannot express the wonderful feeling of knowing that I am now a father and will have the responsibility of helping my wife raise our child in a couple of months. It is a very humbling thought. I feel sorry for my married friends that are delaying this because they are really missing out on a whole bunch of blessings.

Congratulations! It will change your life. There is nothing like a child to challenge everything you believe in.

[skmo]

For those of us who have spent enough trying to HAVE a child that we could have probably bought the spare parts enough to MAKE one (if we had the technology) I have little sympathy for the fear of overcrowding.

[Rose Garden]

Isn't that so true, skmo!

Another thing I noticed when I returned from Korea is how much STUFF Americans have and how important it all is to them. If there's any overcrowding here, it's because of all the things Americans think they need.

[linj2fly]

embryopocket, congrats! I'm so excited for you and your wife! Hope she's feeling OK . I have a funny story to tell...Probably a week after my first was born (boy), my husband took a nap with him. He put ds under his garment, skin to skin, and they both fell asleep. It ended up being a short nap because they both woke up screaming. Apparently, my boy started rooting around and tried latching onto dad's nipple! They were both traumatized for a little while, but we all get a big laugh out of it now. Good times

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but the brainwashing is no longer subliminal...in fact, brainwashing isn't really even needed anymore because the culture has already changed. When I was in the 7th grade, my principal asked me what I wanted to be when I 'grow up.' I said, 'a mother.' She responded, 'but don't you want to be something more." Not really, bc is my mind, there's not much 'more' important out there for me in the world. And it certainly can't replace my divine role. I couldn't articulate it back then, but that was my feeling. My mom had a large family. She birthed back in the 60s and 70s. She has plenty of stories of the doctors asking her if the pregnancy was planned and if she wanted to terminate. I'm pretty lucky with my OB. It's a celebration everytime I get pregnant. No pressure. All joy and excitement. She's great. Others are shocked, " ...That's a lot of kids!" "Yeah....in some circles," I say. My gg grandmother had a dream once that she died and went to heaven, and while she was there, she discovered that she had not lived up to her promise to bring each child to earth that she had covenanted to. There were things she regretted as she reviewed her life, but this was, by far, her deepest regret. She woke up and renewed her promise and asked God to help her fulfill and bear her responsibility. She and her dream have been remembered in our family down thru the generations and has been a blessing to us.

[Rose Garden]

embryopocket, congrats! I'm so excited for you and your wife! Hope she's feeling OK . I have a funny story to tell...Probably a week after my first was born (boy), my husband took a nap with him. He put ds under his garment, skin to skin, and they both fell asleep. It ended up being a short nap because they both woke up screaming. Apparently, my boy started rooting around and tried latching onto dad's nipple! They were both traumatized for a little while, but we all get a big laugh out of it now. Good times

=)) =)) =))

[jackvance1985]

Me and my wife married on our mid 30s. We started having kids from the get go despite my unemployment. We have one baby and another on the way, almost back to back. I'm on mimimum wage with zero benefits, no healthcare. We owe the hospital about $8000 and that will double after our next baby is born. Thats with insurance paid for out of our own pockets at $400 a month and the deductable was $7000! welcome to Utah! that was the lowest we could find.

Is it worth it? of couse. does God suddenly bless us after some test like the above poster stated when he got a job the first day of marriage? No, not always. At least not financially (we will have to probably file bankruptcy after the third child if things don't change. We're goona have 3, maybe 4, regardless of how poor we are) But - we were blessed with a beautiful and healhy baby.

Some well meaning church leaders have even told us we should have thought twice about having another kid so soon given our financial circumstances. but we're soon late 30s and have no time to wait. why should we wait when young early 20 somethings are spitting out kids while the husband is in college? - I have no idea how they even manage that.

[karend77]

This (to limit children/not have children, etc) has been around at least from the late 60's early 70's. I remember when they call this Zero Population concept. It's all evil

[Rose Garden]

Me and my wife married on our mid 30s. We started having kids from the get go despite my unemployment. We have one baby and another on the way, almost back to back. I'm on mimimum wage with zero benefits, no healthcare. We owe the hospital about $8000 and that will double after our next baby is born. Thats with insurance paid for out of our own pockets at $400 a month and the deductable was $7000! welcome to Utah! that was the lowest we could find.

Is it worth it? of couse. does God suddenly bless us after some test like the above poster stated when he got a job the first day of marriage? No, not always. At least not financially (we will have to probably file bankruptcy after the third child if things don't change. We're goona have 3, maybe 4, regardless of how poor we are) But - we were blessed with a beautiful and healhy baby.

Some well meaning church leaders have even told us we should have thought twice about having another kid so soon given our financial circumstances. but we're soon late 30s and have no time to wait. why should we wait when young early 20 somethings are spitting out kids while the husband is in college? - I have no idea how they even manage that.

Welcome to the forum, jackvance. Have you looked into a birthing center or home birth? I checked into the cost for hiring a midwife for a home birth once a couple years ago and it was $1,000-$3,000. If your wife doesn't have any health issues, it might be the better option for your financial health.

[vaquero]

I have said before that one of the main goals of the "green" agenda is to stop people from having babies, as they represent a threat to the earth, in their opinion.

You are absolutely correct on this point. Unfortunately, their efforts are so pervasive that they have tainted the Church.

A couple of years ago, prior to the Copenhagen conference on global warming, there was an orchestrated effort to draw attention to it with a dimming of lights worldwide--the Eiffel Tower, Parliament, major buildings in cities worldwide, etc. In connection with that event, the Temple department sent a memo out instructing temples to likewise dim their lights.

[Rose Garden]

I loved that it snowed like crazy on that conference. Added a nice touch!

[A Random Phrase]

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg6Sg0UQHhM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You think there is not an effort to subliminally get people to not have kids? Listen to this guy and realize that television is a tool of indoctrination. Check what he says here from 26 minutes to 29 mintutes at least. These guys put a premium on finding ways to get Americans and I would assume Europeans to think twice about having kids.

What I find interesting is that in my forays into unassisted birth (I joined several forums/groups after I discovered it), the women who have had unassisted birth were more likely to have large families. I saw so many women who had 5, 6, even 8 (sometimes more) children, and who were looking forward to having another. Not all had large families, and many were beginning their families (1st or 2nd pregnancy) but, all in all, the general attitude toward birthing more children after having had a uc was very positive.

[Benjamin_LK]

The idea of delaying bringing children to this world after marriage to "enjoy life" has, unfortunately, wedged itself into the minds of many Latter-Day Saints. Many of my friends have this mentality and it is sad to see that they are delaying such an important work. The Lord will bless you if you put faith in Him and His revealed word. When my wife and I got engaged, I was unemployed. I desperately tried to find work, but it seemed like no company wanted me. We wanted a job so that we could have insurance because we knew that as soon as we were married we would begin trying to have children. I finally got work and started the first business day after we got married. The Lord could have given me the job a month before the marriage, but he didn't. I like to think that He was testing us to see if we would really put His Gospel before everything else. Several months have passed since then and our little Michael Enoch will be here in April. Words cannot express the wonderful feeling of knowing that I am now a father and will have the responsibility of helping my wife raise our child in a couple of months. It is a very humbling thought. I feel sorry for my married friends that are delaying this because they are really missing out on a whole bunch of blessings.

Interesting story, because mine was very similar, I also spent years trying to find a wife, and my wife a husband. We were quite a bit older than most of our LDS friends were by the time we actually got around to getting married, but at the same time it was a surprise, though I won't exactly be hasty to judge others' circumstances, that very few actually had kids sooner than my wife and I did, in spite of being married as much as several years or more earlier in their lives. One difference in my account was that I was working as a retail grunt when I got engaged, and it was something completely unrelated to my degree in Environmental Engineering, working as a retail associate, and for a time also as a cashier, or a landscaping contractor, or even initially as a library volunteer. Again, very basic work in comparison to the degree I earned. We probably would have felt tempted to delay children, but practicality says that having a child gets risky to the health of both mother and child, and tougher for me as an ever-less energetic dad, as my wife and I aren't getting any younger.

Anyways, congratulations to you and your wife on the new son.

-Benjamin

[Benjamin_LK]

I have said before that one of the main goals of the "green" agenda is to stop people from having babies, as they represent a threat to the earth, in their opinion.

You are absolutely correct on this point. Unfortunately, their efforts are so pervasive that they have tainted the Church.

A couple of years ago, prior to the Copenhagen conference on global warming, there was an orchestrated effort to draw attention to it with a dimming of lights worldwide--the Eiffel Tower, Parliament, major buildings in cities worldwide, etc. In connection with that event, the Temple department sent a memo out instructing temples to likewise dim their lights.

Again, if the church can make a symbolic gesture to dim the lights, yet encourage their members to be both energy efficient and have kids, well, wouldn't that be a plus? Having worked at the Temple in D.C. , and elsewhere, the Church does practice a lot of reasonable conservative practices in the realm of turning off the lights when neccessary, recycling materials, composting, and using renewable energy in some cases where finances and practicality shine on it. But it still encourages us to have children, and raise them with quality nonetheless, children are among the key subjects at General Conference, I wonder why? I think the church is happy with raising children, making a good use of our resources, and telling us not to fear what the world dictates we should fear, but rather make sure we keep the Lord's promise to the best of our abilities.

[Chu]

While we're thinking of the societal pressures, let's not forget about economic pressures as well. Families just plain aren't going to have a large family if they aren't doing well financially.

[Fiannan]

While we're thinking of the societal pressures, let's not forget about economic pressures as well. Families just plain aren't going to have a large family if they aren't doing well financially.

It depends on what one considers necessities and what one considers priorities. Better to have six children in a four bedroom house in which every room has two people than have three kids in which each has their own room. In the end the children will appreciate their additional three siblings than having that big bedroom when growing up.

And if the pension systems collapse then the parents will be in far better shape. At least then they aren't such a burden on just a few kids.

Then again if someone has no kids then there is no guarantee they won't be put to sleep by the government once they are unable to do their fair share of work.